On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 13:04:00 +0000, PoP wrote:

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:12:37 +0000, Mike Mitchell
wrote:

I am NOT waving my willy about. I always keep a firm hand on it.

Must make driving and so on a bit difficult.

It didn't come out as I intended.

.....maybe I should stop now while I'm still a head.

MM

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 13:16:56 +0000, geoff wrote:

In message , Mike Mitchell
writes
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:34:59 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

The ferry gets in the way.

Yeah, that one across the Mersey is enough of a challenge for most.

I never did like Gerry and the pacemakers

Well, Gerry and the Heart Transplants wouldn't have quite the same
ring to it.

MM

"PoP" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:29:27 +0000, Mike Mitchell
wrote:

Well, I left school at fifteen. However, it was in 1961. That is the
difference. I was taught clause analysis by a semi-drunk Irish legend
until my ears almost bled - which would have hardly been surprising
given the frequency of his little loveable cuffs about the head.

Ah, those were the days. Back in the 60's we had teachers who threw
board rubbers across the classroom at anyone not paying attention, and
those were serious blocks of wood! It was also the done thing to have
a plimsol whacked across your backside in front of the class if you
did something wrong.

My parents told me often enough that if I did wrong they'd march me in
front of the headmaster to make sure I got due punishment. Worked for
me.

Obviously in this day and age teachers aren't allowed to even breathe
heavy on a student. I sometimes wonder whether this change of
situation might have a relationship with increased crime levels, but I
expect there must be another explanation.

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.

Ah, I remember it well - the slipper being 'stored' in the 'sleeve' of the
masters gown.

And don't forget the odd chair thrown by the English teacher.

Another Old Cestrefeldian by any chance?


--

Woody

IMM wrote:
When I was in a German office for a month, they would have the odd
celebration and out came the beer. We were never invited. The

Well, that's what your colleagues may have told you before going off to
their all afternoon 'project meeting'.

--
Toby.

'One day son, all this will be finished'

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 13:07:42 +0000, PoP wrote:

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:29:27 +0000, Mike Mitchell
wrote:

Well, I left school at fifteen. However, it was in 1961. That is the
difference. I was taught clause analysis by a semi-drunk Irish legend
until my ears almost bled - which would have hardly been surprising
given the frequency of his little loveable cuffs about the head.

Ah, those were the days. Back in the 60's we had teachers who threw
board rubbers across the classroom at anyone not paying attention, and
those were serious blocks of wood! It was also the done thing to have
a plimsol whacked across your backside in front of the class if you
did something wrong.

Curiously, we survived without all (or even a few) becoming homicidal
maniacs, or whatever the terrifying outcome would be as predicted by
the do gooders and their "no smacking" rule. I just don't think it is
possible to reason with animals or children, as they (especially the
latter) haven't yet developed any skill in exercising logic. The day
tigers, lions and domestic cats stop cuffing their offspring to keep
them on the straight and narrow, that's when I might start to listen
to all the nannies whom we have to thank for the dire state of public
behaviour in Britain.

My parents told me often enough that if I did wrong they'd march me in
front of the headmaster to make sure I got due punishment. Worked for
me.

My mother wore the trousers and she caned me often. The NSPCC would
probably have cried "victim", but I really loved my mum. I knew I had
deserved it.

Obviously in this day and age teachers aren't allowed to even breathe
heavy on a student. I sometimes wonder whether this change of
situation might have a relationship with increased crime levels, but I
expect there must be another explanation.

It's a complex issue, but it is a fact that many people today do not
appear to know the first rules of social interaction. I call many
people today the diagonals. When I was younger people seemed to take a
bit of care where they walked, and we would never rudely cut across
somebody on the pavement. But it happens so often nowadays that
there's no point getting upset about it. People have absolutely no
respect for each other. Better behaviour has to be learned from
somewhere. My solution is to reintroduce a form of National Service,
say for 9 months instead of the original two years, and with greater
emphasis on learning how society works and citizenship than fighting
wars. Most wars will anyway be fought in future using high-tech
weaponry, whereas you need citizenship every day of the week.

MM

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 13:25:21 +0000, geoff wrote:

I think if you live in Germany long enough, you find that, under the
veneer, they're just as crap as us. (5 years living in Germany)

12 years living in Germany; and no, they are not.

MM

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 13:47:04 +0000, geoff wrote:

In message , Mike Mitchell
writes

I believe you about the beer, because I, too, was seconded to work in
a Stuttgart radiator factory once, and the canteen also served beer,
in jugs. One poured the quantity one wanted.

In one company which I worked in, there was a general walk out because
there was a rumour that there was going to be a discussion about
stopping production workers drinking at their place of work. By this I
mean while operating presses, milling machine and lathes.

Bier ist wie brot

Brot, bitte sehr, mit großem B!

(Sorry, couldn't resist again!)

MM
(Your resident pedant)

"Mike Mitchell" wrote in message
...

It's a complex issue, but it is a fact that many people today do not
appear to know the first rules of social interaction. I call many
people today the diagonals. When I was younger people seemed to take a
bit of care where they walked, and we would never rudely cut across
somebody on the pavement. But it happens so often nowadays that
there's no point getting upset about it. People have absolutely no
respect for each other.

I call them the Thatcher children - "no such thing as society" she said.
Those brought up under her are pigs, as she promoted the me, me, me, screw
the rest mentality.

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , IMM
writes

snip

Maxie, I am brilliant at the English language.

Wish on

Maxie you left the full stop off the sentence.



And you left your brain back in year dot !

"Toby" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:
When I was in a German office for a month, they would have the odd
celebration and out came the beer. We were never invited. The

Well, that's what your colleagues may have told you before going off to
their all afternoon 'project meeting'.

Toby, you are one. Or are you a jug?

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , IMM
writes

Where I worked in Germany (Wildblad im Schwarzwald) the hours were as
we worked in the UK, and every afternoon at 3-00pm a trolley came
round loaded with a selection of beers (up to one litre!).

You were lucky !

We used to have to go downstairs to the lobby where they had 3 massive
beer vending machines.

Friday - return from lunch ...

"Geoff, it's almost the weekend, go and get the beer in"

... unless, of course, it was someone's birthday / child's christening
/
engagement / joining / leaving / any other excuse, in which case, it
was
obligatory to have a barrel of beer and some food.

When I was in a German office for a month, they would have the odd
celebration and out came the beer. We were never invited.

I wonder why ?

Because we were better looking, better dressed, better dancers, better
singers and better at life than them.

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 15:15:32 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

When I was in a German office for a month, they would have the odd
celebration and out came the beer. We were never invited. The Germans do
focus on what they do and tend to do it better than the British. I found we
worked harder and out in more hours, but what they turned out was, although
less than us, we on the whole better quality. They were better managers and
organisers, needing only one shot to do it, whereas the British muddled
through. The Germans were better than us, although not as good as me.

Exactly! You got it! They have far better focus on the job in
progress, whereas we seem unable to focus very much at all. Did you
notice another surprising thing about German life? No presenteeism! At
16:30 we had "Feierabend" (finish for the day) and literally everybody
made a beeline for the car park. None of this "sleeping across the
desk" as one former UK manager proudly exclaimed to me on numerous
occasions to explain his 60-hour-week dedication to the company.

But then they are inculcated from a young age with a sense of early
birds catching the best worms, since all schools, even at a very
junior level start lessons at around twenty to eight in the morning
when the mind is fresh. To compensate, children do not have afternoon
school, and therefore mothers tend to stay at home much more than in
the UK, which again is beneficial to society as this ensures more
cohesive family life. No latchkey kids wandering the streets while mum
is still at the factory to help support a massive mortgage. Oh, we
could learn so much not just from the Germans, but from the French,
the Dutch, the Italians - everybody! We do tend to stay on our little
overcrowded island too much and close our eyes and ears to the big
wide world.

MM

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Jerry." wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...
snip

de-urbanise. Germany is in trouble, as it struggles to adjust being
mainly
manufacturing based. Buy any consumer item in Germany and look at
where
it
is made. China and Taiwan is more likely to be on the bottom.


Look at many consumer items you buy in the UK, many are made in the far
east
(and many of those made in the UK are only assembled here - the parts
coming
in from abroad), what has caused the problems in Germany is the
reunification of east and west Germany and the cost of modernising the
industries of the old East Germany.

That is true. But the realisation that much of their industry is falling
away to the far east is also a big factor. In the east at least they can
build new industries that don't compete with the far east. So a bit of a
win, win there.

Not at all, they could build industry's that could compete with the far east
in any part of Germany, the reason why many of the western countries can't
compete is due to cost of labour - Nothing more and nothing less.

snip

Wilson had a hell of job inheriting outdated industry that was neglected
in
the 1950s. British management had a mentality of cheap labour rather than
efficiency using machines,

Which AIUI is how the far east economies work to a point, people get paid
the going rate for the work and not one graded on some form of comparison
with other peoples wages in another industry or even country...

that is why we has an immigration scheme.



Immigration was due to a shortage of labour, nothing to do with cost.

"IMM" wrote in message
...

snip
through. The Germans were better than us, although not as good as me.



This thread is about Grand designs, not Grand Delusions !... :~)

In message , Mike Mitchell
writes
On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 13:04:00 +0000, PoP wrote:

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:12:37 +0000, Mike Mitchell
wrote:

I am NOT waving my willy about. I always keep a firm hand on it.

Must make driving and so on a bit difficult.

It didn't come out as I intended.

....maybe I should stop now while I'm still a head.

Oh, cum on now
--
geoff

In message , Mike Mitchell
writes
On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 13:25:21 +0000, geoff wrote:

I think if you live in Germany long enough, you find that, under the
veneer, they're just as crap as us. (5 years living in Germany)

12 years living in Germany; and no, they are not.

doch
--
geoff

In message , Mike Mitchell
writes
On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 13:47:04 +0000, geoff wrote:

In message , Mike Mitchell
writes

I believe you about the beer, because I, too, was seconded to work in
a Stuttgart radiator factory once, and the canteen also served beer,
in jugs. One poured the quantity one wanted.

In one company which I worked in, there was a general walk out because
there was a rumour that there was going to be a discussion about
stopping production workers drinking at their place of work. By this I
mean while operating presses, milling machine and lathes.

Bier ist wie brot

Brot, bitte sehr, mit großem B!

(Sorry, couldn't resist again!)

If I don't use a capital with germany, do you think I'm going to bother
with brot?

Like minimie (pot - black-kettle, please reorganise) pulling me up on a
full stop at the end of my last sentence - I just can't be arsed

--
geoff

In message , IMM
writes


When I was in a German office for a month, they would have the odd
celebration and out came the beer. We were never invited.

I wonder why ?

Because we were better looking, better dressed, better dancers, better
singers and better at life than them.

Yes that would be it then - nothing to do with the fact that they
probably thought you were a ******
--
geoff

"Mike Mitchell" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 15:15:32 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

When I was in a German office for a
month, they would have the odd
celebration and out came the beer.
We were never invited. The Germans do
focus on what they do and tend to do
it better than the British. I found we
worked harder and put in more hours,
but what they turned out was, although
less than us, was on the whole better
quality. They were better managers and
organisers, needing only one shot to do it,
whereas the British muddled
through. The Germans were better than us,
although not as good as me.

Exactly! You got it! They have far
better focus on the job in
progress, whereas we seem unable
to focus very much at all. Did you
notice another surprising thing about
German life? No presenteeism! At
16:30 we had "Feierabend" (finish
for the day) and literally everybody
made a beeline for the car park. None
of this "sleeping across the
desk" as one former UK manager proudly
exclaimed to me on numerous
occasions to explain his 60-hour-week
dedication to the company.

But then they are inculcated from a
young age with a sense of early
birds catching the best worms, since
all schools, even at a very
junior level start lessons at around
twenty to eight in the morning
when the mind is fresh. To compensate,
children do not have afternoon
school, and therefore mothers tend to
stay at home much more than in
the UK, which again is beneficial to
society as this ensures more
cohesive family life. No latchkey kids
wandering the streets while mum
is still at the factory to help support a
massive mortgage.

The problem in the UK is due to land ownership - 70% is owned by 1% of the
population. There is an artificial land shortage in a country with a land
surplus, ramping up land prices, and hence house prices, meaning only 7% of
families have the mother at home. Most homes have large mortgages for very
small expensive homes meaning both parents need to work to survive.

Yes, land is the answer, release it, use for the benefit if the people,
re-distribute it, This what the Germans, Dutch French, etc do. The knock
on effect is apparent in their societies compared to the UK. Quality of
life is generally better in those countries. Vandalism is rife in the UK,
and virtually not there at all in other European countries. Sounds odd,
sounds bizarre, but yes it is land that is the root problem with the UK,
land. Tackle that and many problems are solved.

80% of consumer debt is mortgages.

Oh, we could learn so much not just
from the Germans, but from the French,
the Dutch, the Italians - everybody!
We do tend to stay on our little
overcrowded island too much and
close our eyes and ears to the big
wide world.

Much more deeper than that. I do like the idea of morning schools only, but
the problem of taking kids to school in the dark is a touchy subject. Also
in the UK school hours are geared to mothers working hours, so they drop off
and collect their kids around work times.

"Jerry." wrote in message
...

snip drivel

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , IMM
writes


When I was in a German office for a month, they would have the odd
celebration and out came the beer. We were never invited.

I wonder why ?

Because we were better looking, better dressed, better dancers, better
singers and better at life than them.

Yes that would be it then

It was then and still is now. Envy gets you nowhere.

"Jerry." wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Jerry." wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...
snip

de-urbanise. Germany is in trouble, as it struggles to adjust being
mainly
manufacturing based. Buy any consumer item in Germany and look at
where
it
is made. China and Taiwan is more likely to be on the bottom.


Look at many consumer items you buy in the UK, many are made in the
far
east
(and many of those made in the UK are only assembled here - the parts
coming
in from abroad), what has caused the problems in Germany is the
reunification of east and west Germany and the cost of modernising the
industries of the old East Germany.

That is true. But the realisation that much of their industry is
falling
away to the far east is also a big factor. In the east at least they
can
build new industries that don't compete with the far east. So a bit of
a
win, win there.

Not at all, they could build industry's that could compete with the far
east
in any part of Germany,

snip drivel from someone who can't get a simple point

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 17:10:10 +0000, geoff wrote:

In message , Mike Mitchell
writes
On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 13:25:21 +0000, geoff wrote:

I think if you live in Germany long enough, you find that, under the
veneer, they're just as crap as us. (5 years living in Germany)

12 years living in Germany; and no, they are not.

doch

Überhaupt nicht! Ganz und gar nicht! Bestimmt nicht! Total falsch!

We could carry on like this all night long!

MM

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 17:13:36 +0000, geoff wrote:

If I don't use a capital with germany, do you think I'm going to bother
with brot?

It's Berlin, by the way...

MM

PoP wrote in message ...


the camel shagging

I thought that went out with the Crusaders?

Regards
Capitol

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Jerry." wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Jerry." wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...
snip

de-urbanise. Germany is in trouble, as it struggles to adjust
being
mainly
manufacturing based. Buy any consumer item in Germany and look at
where
it
is made. China and Taiwan is more likely to be on the bottom.


Look at many consumer items you buy in the UK, many are made in the
far
east
(and many of those made in the UK are only assembled here - the
parts
coming
in from abroad), what has caused the problems in Germany is the
reunification of east and west Germany and the cost of modernising
the
industries of the old East Germany.

That is true. But the realisation that much of their industry is
falling
away to the far east is also a big factor. In the east at least they
can
build new industries that don't compete with the far east. So a bit
of
a
win, win there.

Not at all, they could build industry's that could compete with the far
east
in any part of Germany,

snip drivel from someone who can't get a simple point



But you haven't snipped out your own words !

Just admit you're wrong, no one is going to laugh at you, just behind your
back !...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Jerry." wrote in message
...

snip drivel


Truth hurts does it ?

"IMM" wrote
| When I was in a German office for a month, they would have the
| odd celebration and out came the beer. We were never invited.
| I wonder why ?
| Because we were better looking, better dressed, better dancers,
| better singers and better at life than them.

And we won the war.

Owain

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 17:41:30 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

Much more deeper than that. I do like the idea of morning schools only, but
the problem of taking kids to school in the dark is a touchy subject. Also
in the UK school hours are geared to mothers working hours, so they drop off
and collect their kids around work times.

Another misunderstanding is that children in Germany are generally not
driven to school by their mothers or fathers like they are in the UK.
On the contrary, many children, even at quite a young age (my niece
was 8, I believe) make their own way in the company of other school
children on the ordinary bus or by bike, using the proper footpaths
which are located *away* from the road. Some mothers take their
children to school by car sometimes, but there is nothing like the
traffic chaos that features so heavily during the rush hour in the UK.

Another point: While Germany has just put away its first cannibal, the
public have not descended in gibbering paranoiacs, afraid that
cannibals may be lurking behind every hedge to eat their children.
Such a silly idea, as we all know that only giant fe-fi-fo-fum
monsters do *that* kind of thing, and Blunkett's now got them on Home
Detention Curfew.

MM

Anna Kettle wrote:

I could be wrong about the Georgian style of the house I'm thinking
of. I remember the glazing bars house too but that was a later
programme, not the one I'm thinking of.

OK fairy snuff.... that was the first big Georgian style one I remember
- I may have missed the other.

I agreed with her about the glazing bars on the windows, though she
should have sorted out what she wanted earlier in the build. If a
house is intended to be of a period then the fenestration has to be
right or it won't ever look right. She did only get a sample window

I think they had samples on site and the rest were in the process of
being made. The cost of the change was something like 30K extra - hence
it must have been more than just a last minute change to an as yet
unfulfilled order. The slightly more surprising bit was that this is the
episode that caused her to sack the architect (with the phrase "I would
like you to put your professional indemnity insurers on notice...!") and
take over management of the build herself...

replaced, not the whole lot so I think you're maligning her a bit.

Not intending to malign her at all really - in many respects I was in
awe of her drive, ambition, and shear determination to realise her dream
house. It was all the more impressive that she took on the management of
a build of that magnitude without any prior experience of such things
while at the same time as looking after a family and (IIRC) performing a
day job as well.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Jerry." wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Jerry." wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Jerry." wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...
snip

de-urbanise. Germany is in trouble, as it struggles to adjust
being
mainly
manufacturing based. Buy any consumer item in Germany and look
at
where
it
is made. China and Taiwan is more likely to be on the bottom.


Look at many consumer items you buy in the UK, many are made in
the
far
east
(and many of those made in the UK are only assembled here - the
parts
coming
in from abroad), what has caused the problems in Germany is the
reunification of east and west Germany and the cost of modernising
the
industries of the old East Germany.

That is true. But the realisation that much of their industry is
falling
away to the far east is also a big factor. In the east at least
they
can
build new industries that don't compete with the far east. So a bit
of
a
win, win there.

Not at all, they could build industry's that could compete with the
far
east
in any part of Germany,

snip drivel from someone who can't get a simple point

But you haven't snipped out your own words !

Just admit you're wrong, no one is going to laugh at you, just behind your
back !...

I'm right.

"Owain" wrote in message
...
"IMM" wrote
| When I was in a German office for a month, they would have the
| odd celebration and out came the beer. We were never invited.
| I wonder why ?
| Because we were better looking, better dressed, better dancers,
| better singers and better at life than them.

And we won the war.

I mentioned the war.

"Jerry." wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Jerry." wrote in message
...

snip drivel

Truth hurts does it ?

No. I accept the report. Very factual and true.

On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 00:03:46 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Owain" wrote in message
...
"IMM" wrote
| When I was in a German office for a month, they would have the
| odd celebration and out came the beer. We were never invited.
| I wonder why ?
| Because we were better looking, better dressed, better dancers,
| better singers and better at life than them.

And we won the war.

I mentioned the war.

That could be why you weren't invited to the parties....
..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 00:03:46 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Owain" wrote in message
...
"IMM" wrote
| When I was in a German office for a month, they would have the
| odd celebration and out came the beer. We were never invited.
| I wonder why ?
| Because we were better looking, better dressed, better dancers,
| better singers and better at life than them.

And we won the war.

I mentioned the war.

That could be why you weren't invited to the parties....

NO, we were just better looking and would take all the girls. They were
ugly *******s, even the women.

In message , Andy Hall
writes
On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 00:03:46 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Owain" wrote in message
...
"IMM" wrote
| When I was in a German office for a month, they would have the
| odd celebration and out came the beer. We were never invited.
| I wonder why ?
| Because we were better looking, better dressed, better dancers,
| better singers and better at life than them.

And we won the war.

I mentioned the war.

That could be why you weren't invited to the parties....

C'mon andy - you know that's not true

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

--
geoff

PoP wrote:

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 13:15:40 +0000, geoff wrote:


http://tinyurl.com/3audc


If ever proof were needed! Take the worlds biggest w*nker, apply a
liberal dose of newspaper, and what do you get?



IMM?


PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
PoP wrote:

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 13:15:40 +0000, geoff wrote:


http://tinyurl.com/3audc


If ever proof were needed! Take the worlds biggest w*nker, apply a
liberal dose of newspaper, and what do you get?

IMM?

LOL. snotty uni humour, so funny. Do you tell you pone about the dog with
no nose too.

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Andy Hall
writes
On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 00:03:46 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Owain" wrote in message
...
"IMM" wrote
| When I was in a German office for a month, they would have the
| odd celebration and out came the beer. We were never invited.
| I wonder why ?
| Because we were better looking, better dressed, better dancers,
| better singers and better at life than them.

And we won the war.

I mentioned the war.

That could be why you weren't invited to the parties....

C'mon andy - you know that's not true

That is true Maxie. Our stunning good looks put them off us.

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 21:06:42 -0000, "Owain"
wrote:

"IMM" wrote
| When I was in a German office for a month, they would have the
| odd celebration and out came the beer. We were never invited.
| I wonder why ?
| Because we were better looking, better dressed, better dancers,
| better singers and better at life than them.

And we won the war.

No, the *Americans* won the war! We put them up for three years.

MM