On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 22:09:48 +0000, derek
wrote:

Still, somehow not a way to train airline pilots, operators of
nuclear plant, or brain surgeons, USW USW USW. Ergo, still not a
"Proper Degree" YMMV.

You may be right, however an OU degree is very well recognised in
industry because it demonstrates a real commitment to get thru a
significant amount of material in ones own time etc. And without all
the camel shagging and popsicol drinking that takes place at a red
brick.

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:20:42 +0000, Julian Fowler
wrote:

... which probably says a lot about your English teacher :-(

"My wife and I went to viist our friends" (subject of sentence)
"Our friends came to visit my wife and me" (object of sentence)

Actually, though it was a secondary modern, I think the English
teacher most probably did teach those examples which you quote. But I
was already a techie by this time in my educational calendar and
English was boring, boring, boring. So I didn't take a whole lot of
notice.

I think I got CSE grade 2 for English - it certainly wasn't O level or
CSE grade 1.

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.

On 31 Jan 2004 22:11:40 GMT, (Huge) wrote:

Because Usenet is not "English as a foreign language", nor is it a
medium of record, nor is it a place for pedantic ****heads to wave
their willies about.

I am NOT waving my willy about. I always keep a firm hand on it.

MM

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 21:54:40 +0000, geoff wrote:

Who can see past the forest of pot plants which completely dominate
dutch windowsills?

Natuurlijk!

MM

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:34:59 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

The ferry gets in the way.

Yeah, that one across the Mersey is enough of a challenge for most.

MM

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:39:50 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

Apart from Spayne and Eyebyeza one might think that the channel tunnel
was the entrance to Hades.

Not if you've already been there and found that it ain't as bad as
people think.

(Sorry, that was the "Huge" use of "you've" there.)

MM

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:12:37 +0000, Mike Mitchell
wrote:

On 31 Jan 2004 22:11:40 GMT, (Huge) wrote:

Because Usenet is not "English as a foreign language", nor is it a
medium of record, nor is it a place for pedantic ****heads to wave
their willies about.

I am NOT waving my willy about. I always keep a firm hand on it.

MM

That's a bit of an admission........ ;-)
..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 18:16:59 +0000, PoP wrote:

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:32:05 +0000, Mike Mitchell
wrote:

"...my wife and me..."

You know, although I didn't make the grade at English O level, I could
have sworn that our English teacher said "Xyz and I" was the correct
usage, not "Xyz and me".

It is when using the nominative. Thus: "My wife and I went to the
station to see the engines shunt." But note: "A lump of coal flew out
of the boiler and hit my wife and me in the face."

MM

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:20:42 +0000, Julian Fowler
wrote:

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 18:16:59 +0000, PoP wrote:

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:32:05 +0000, Mike Mitchell
wrote:

"...my wife and me..."

You know, although I didn't make the grade at English O level, I could
have sworn that our English teacher said "Xyz and I" was the correct
usage, not "Xyz and me".

... which probably says a lot about your English teacher :-(

"My wife and I went to viist our friends" (subject of sentence)
"Our friends came to visit my wife and me" (object of sentence)

I guess, though, that its many years since such basics of grammar were
actually taught in schools ...

Well, I left school at fifteen. However, it was in 1961. That is the
difference. I was taught clause analysis by a semi-drunk Irish legend
until my ears almost bled - which would have hardly been surprising
given the frequency of his little loveable cuffs about the head.

MM

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 02:13:31 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"derek" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:18:36 +0000, Mike Mitchell
wrote:


No it is the "Erics" capitalising on the "Wirtschafts Wunder" boost
they got after WW2 when we were paying for the defence of Germany and
our armies in Germany were spending money contributing to the German
economy but were a burden on our own/The Amercan's.

Nothing to do, then, with German efficiency,

No such thing.

a need to prove themselves after such a massive defeat,

"Some" value not possible to quantify as illustrated below.

1950 -55 -Yes,

1955 -60 -50% Yes and falling,

1960+ No.

striving for top quality at low prices,

Why would they do that? That's not good business.

and trades unions

Set up by the Brits, post war.

that aimed for cooperation, not
confrontation with employers? Plus a vastly more efficient transport
system, including the autobahns,

They might have had autobahns but at the end of the war they had
neither vehicles nor fuel, and FTM the autobahn network doesn't seem
so brilliant even now. OTOH they do have the river Rhine. Sure as hell
the railways had been wrecked by the RAF.

BTW I'm not sure of the status of the autobahns at the end of WW2,
there never was a "Roadbusters" Film.

which Hitler, not the British or Americans, built.

He did, but by spending money the country didn't have, which he
achieved simply by printing Deutsche Marks.

"Caused by the German government printing zillions of Deutsche Marks
of new currency daily. The more money they printed, the less it was
worth. People were taking shopping bags full of money to the store to
buy a few groceries.

Inflation reached the point where it cost one million Deutsche Marks
to mail a letter."

Wrong. That was before Hitler.


I must have read this wrong then:

The Stadium vote reminds us of the scam or coup Hitler pulled off in
Germany about 60 years ago. Germany was in bad shape, suffering from
an economic depression, which was the aftermath of runaway inflation,
caused by the German government printing zillions of Deutsche Marks of
new currency daily. The more money they printed, the less it was
worth. People were taking shopping bags full of money to the store to
buy a few groceries.

Inflation reached the point where it cost one million Deutsche Marks
to mail a letter.


DG

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:12:37 +0000, Mike Mitchell
wrote:

I am NOT waving my willy about. I always keep a firm hand on it.

Must make driving and so on a bit difficult.

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:29:27 +0000, Mike Mitchell
wrote:

Well, I left school at fifteen. However, it was in 1961. That is the
difference. I was taught clause analysis by a semi-drunk Irish legend
until my ears almost bled - which would have hardly been surprising
given the frequency of his little loveable cuffs about the head.

Ah, those were the days. Back in the 60's we had teachers who threw
board rubbers across the classroom at anyone not paying attention, and
those were serious blocks of wood! It was also the done thing to have
a plimsol whacked across your backside in front of the class if you
did something wrong.

My parents told me often enough that if I did wrong they'd march me in
front of the headmaster to make sure I got due punishment. Worked for
me.

Obviously in this day and age teachers aren't allowed to even breathe
heavy on a student. I sometimes wonder whether this change of
situation might have a relationship with increased crime levels, but I
expect there must be another explanation.

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.

In message , Huge
writes
Mike Mitchell writes:
On 31 Jan 2004 22:11:40 GMT, (Huge) wrote:

Because Usenet is not "English as a foreign language", nor is it a
medium of record, nor is it a place for pedantic ****heads to wave
their willies about.

I am NOT waving my willy about. I always keep a firm hand on it.

You'll go blind, you know.


As in ...

Http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QgAAA...aFLTJkUnDYZsCo
rdedwPhrHko2TwoJlHEhvzxne6qmsaY8!D*Z7qw2SdhdU84R2e 62JaVlcn4*a3TBM/dmail.j
pg?dc=4675457838512005864

or

http://tinyurl.com/3audc

--
geoff

In message , Mike Mitchell
writes
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:34:59 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

The ferry gets in the way.

Yeah, that one across the Mersey is enough of a challenge for most.

I never did like Gerry and the pacemakers
--
geoff

In message , Mike Mitchell
writes
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 20:26:45 +0000, derek
wrote:

Just as *Somebody* was eating the fillet steaks during the wartime
food rationing, *Somebody* is driving the rusty old transits.

I see on the autobahns an equitable number of scabby old vehicles.

That's the German way.

I don't see the point of this rather snide comment. Are you just being
a wind-up merchant?

I think if you live in Germany long enough, you find that, under the
veneer, they're just as crap as us. (5 years living in Germany)

--
geoff

In message , Neil Jones
writes

"Mike Mitchell" wrote in message
.. .
How good it would be for
our national pride and the economy for Germans to be watching a
programme on German TV showing a group of British builders
constructing a British house somewhere in Germany! And I don't mean a
Wimpey or a Barratt.

MM

Did the show the first series of "Auf Wiedersehen, Pet" in Germany?

Unfortunately not AFAIK

(they did have" 'allo 'allo" on satellite though which they all thought
was great ... not quite the same though)
--
geoff

In message , derek
writes
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:08:38 +0000, Mike Mitchell
wrote:


But it IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE!

No it is the "Erics" capitalising on the "Wirtschafts Wunder" boost
they got after WW2 when we were paying for the defence of Germany and
our armies in Germany were spending money contributing to the German
economy but were a burden on our own/The Amercan's.

This attitude to planning and working is
absolutely standard in Germany! This kind of work is the norm
EVERYwhere!

Where I worked in Germany (Wildblad im Schwarzwald) the hours were as
we worked in the UK, and every afternoon at 3-00pm a trolley came
round loaded with a selection of beers (up to one litre!).

You were lucky !

We used to have to go downstairs to the lobby where they had 3 massive
beer vending machines.

Friday - return from lunch ...

"Geoff, it's almost the weekend, go and get the beer in"

.... unless, of course, it was someone's birthday / child's christening /
engagement / joining / leaving / any other excuse, in which case, it was
obligatory to have a barrel of beer and some food.

And this was on a site doing defence work

--
geoff

In message , Mike Mitchell
writes

I believe you about the beer, because I, too, was seconded to work in
a Stuttgart radiator factory once, and the canteen also served beer,
in jugs. One poured the quantity one wanted.

In one company which I worked in, there was a general walk out because
there was a rumour that there was going to be a discussion about
stopping production workers drinking at their place of work. By this I
mean while operating presses, milling machine and lathes.

Bier ist wie brot

--
geoff

"derek" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 02:13:31 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"derek" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:18:36 +0000, Mike Mitchell
wrote:


No it is the "Erics" capitalising on the "Wirtschafts Wunder" boost
they got after WW2 when we were paying for the defence of Germany and
our armies in Germany were spending money contributing to the German
economy but were a burden on our own/The Amercan's.

Nothing to do, then, with German efficiency,

No such thing.

a need to prove themselves after such a massive defeat,

"Some" value not possible to quantify as illustrated below.

1950 -55 -Yes,

1955 -60 -50% Yes and falling,

1960+ No.

striving for top quality at low prices,

Why would they do that? That's not good business.

and trades unions

Set up by the Brits, post war.

that aimed for cooperation, not
confrontation with employers? Plus a vastly more efficient transport
system, including the autobahns,

They might have had autobahns but at the end of the war they had
neither vehicles nor fuel, and FTM the autobahn network doesn't seem
so brilliant even now. OTOH they do have the river Rhine. Sure as hell
the railways had been wrecked by the RAF.

BTW I'm not sure of the status of the autobahns at the end of WW2,
there never was a "Roadbusters" Film.

which Hitler, not the British or Americans, built.

He did, but by spending money the country didn't have, which he
achieved simply by printing Deutsche Marks.

"Caused by the German government printing zillions of Deutsche Marks
of new currency daily. The more money they printed, the less it was
worth. People were taking shopping bags full of money to the store to
buy a few groceries.

Inflation reached the point where it cost one million Deutsche Marks
to mail a letter."

Wrong. That was before Hitler.


I must have read this wrong then:

The Stadium vote reminds us of the scam or coup Hitler pulled off in
Germany about 60 years ago. Germany was in bad shape, suffering from
an economic depression, which was the aftermath of runaway inflation,
caused by the German government printing zillions of Deutsche Marks of
new currency daily. The more money they printed, the less it was
worth. People were taking shopping bags full of money to the store to
buy a few groceries.

Inflation reached the point where it cost one million Deutsche Marks
to mail a letter.


I still occurred when Hitler was in power until the finance people got hold
of the situation and it started to take effect.

"Mike Mitchell" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:34:59 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

The ferry gets in the way.

Yeah, that one across the Mersey is enough of a challenge for most.

Is that still going? They have rail and road tunnels now.

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Mike Mitchell
writes
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:34:59 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

The ferry gets in the way.

Yeah, that one across the Mersey is enough of a challenge for most.

I never did like Gerry and the pacemakers

You are a saddo, that is why you always walk alone.

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , IMM
writes

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...
snip stuff about further education

This mut be a wind up or a first- a thread on uk.d-i-y where everyone
is
agreeing AND talking sense !

All I have read is ********.

Don't you mean "typed" rather than "read"

Yo do have problems with the English language don't you

Maxie, I am brilliant at the English language.

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , IMM
writes

Also the political correctness of having a target of 50% of the
population "going to a university".

Political correctness has nothing to do with it.

It has everything to do with it.

The country is turning to
a high tech economy. The government has to prepare for this.

But it doesn't serve the needs of the economy or the individuals
concerned to engineer education such that 50% go to a university by
dropping the standards to make that happen.

No proof of this.

You're saying that dropping standards to admit more people is a good
idea?

I said "No proof of this."

I've looked at recent GCSE, A level and degree course exam papers.
The standard has dropped substantially over the last few years.

No proof of this.

We have you

LOL, what a jolly there Maxie.

"IMM" wrote in message
...
snip

de-urbanise. Germany is in trouble, as it struggles to adjust being
mainly
manufacturing based. Buy any consumer item in Germany and look at where
it
is made. China and Taiwan is more likely to be on the bottom.


Look at many consumer items you buy in the UK, many are made in the far east
(and many of those made in the UK are only assembled here - the parts coming
in from abroad), what has caused the problems in Germany is the
reunification of east and west Germany and the cost of modernising the
industries of the old East Germany.

The main problem with the Wilson Government was not creating highly skilled
technicians, scientist etc but keeping them in the country once they started
to earn money, they could earn more abroad - or should I say keep more of
that money...

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , IMM
writes
And Harold saved them. He set up ICL and also the OU, which has been
emulated around then world.

The country sold out it's electronics industry to
the Chinese/Taiwanese/Koreans at the earliest oportunity.

Not so. It was a case of Globalisation (in 1965 Harold took Indonesian
rebels on RN ships to overthrow the dictator

What, Sukarno? he wanted independence

and they ended up with Suharto who was the murdering ******* - much
worse

and open up the vast cheap
workforce.

So you could have cheap trainers?

Well so the masses could maxie. I don't wear trainers except in the gym.

The rebels were murdering *******s.

WTF are you on about, what do you know about indonesian history?

Kamu orang goblok - tai untuk otak

So much for socialism and
Harold being far lefty. We were the first to adjust to globalisation in
the modern sense (although the British invented it in the 1700s) and
de-urbanise. Germany is in trouble, as it struggles to adjust being
mainly
manufacturing based. Buy any consumer item in Germany and look at where
it
is made. China and Taiwan is more likely to be on the bottom.



--
geoff

"PoP" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:29:27 +0000, Mike Mitchell
wrote:

Well, I left school at fifteen. However, it was in 1961. That is the
difference. I was taught clause analysis by a semi-drunk Irish legend
until my ears almost bled - which would have hardly been surprising
given the frequency of his little loveable cuffs about the head.

Ah, those were the days. Back in the 60's we had teachers who threw
board rubbers across the classroom at anyone not paying attention, and
those were serious blocks of wood! It was also the done thing to have
a plimsol whacked across your backside in front of the class if you
did something wrong.

My parents told me often enough that if I did wrong they'd march me in
front of the headmaster to make sure I got due punishment. Worked for
me.

Are you sure?

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , IMM
writes


All the high-tech stuff is going to India, China, Malaysia, Germany, US

You mean low grade programming.

All the cars/trucks are made abroad (bar specialised low-volume)
What are all those degree 'qualified' people going to do ?.

We now have a massive service industry.

Which doesn't actually produce anything. Cleaners and caterers don't
generate wealth, they just move it around.

Maxie, you will have to find out what the service industry consists of.
Fixing boards is one of them. Now that is a starter for you.

In article , Anna Kettle
writes
I could be wrong about the Georgian style of the house I'm thinking
of. I remember the glazing bars house too but that was a later
programme, not the one I'm thinking of.

I agreed with her about the glazing bars on the windows, though she
should have sorted out what she wanted earlier in the build. If a
house is intended to be of a period then the fenestration has to be
right or it won't ever look right. She did only get a sample window
replaced, not the whole lot so I think you're maligning her a bit.

Jacob Butler has some interesting comments about this in his web site.
The problem is, if you are renovating sash windows it is very difficult
to get the old "war glass" out in one piece, and replace it when the
woodwork is finished.

J.
--
John Rouse

Tony Bryer wrote:

In article , The Natural Philosopher wrote:

However, and all galss house can not mmeet building regs iuseing
the overall heatloss methiond. Only by using the elemental nehod,
i.e. a methind designed for a few windows, can it meet specs.


You have a third option, the Carbon Index method, which will
potentially allow you any amount of glass and gives you credit for
high efficiency boilers, solar gains etc.



In short, the huf haus was hgely energy inneficient, and will
have a huge heating bill. I would estimate 4000-6000 quid a year


High spec dg units would have a U-value of around 2.0, much the
same as 9" brick walls found on virtually all pre-war houses.


Building regs for walls and rooves are about 0.3 from memory. So thats
only 6.6 toimes worse.

So
given the insulation in the floors, roof and opaque wall areas the
heating will be significantly less than a similarly sized Victorian
pile



They don't pass regs eiher, and cost about te same to heat properly.

Anna Kettle wrote:

One I'd like to see again was from a couple of seasons ago. A
faux-Georgian pile. She was the impossible client and got through
architects and builders like there was no tomorrow. He went off and
made money and built a purple ... sort of cone shaped fire that I
can't remember the name of ... in the livingroom as his contribution.
Can it really have been as awful as I remember?


Ah., The mexican charcioal burner thing.

Well it was sort of raher wonderful in its awfulness...


Anna


--
~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Lime plasterwork, plaster conservation
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling and pargeting
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 07976 649862

In message , IMM
writes

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , IMM
writes

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...
snip stuff about further education

This mut be a wind up or a first- a thread on uk.d-i-y where everyone
is
agreeing AND talking sense !

All I have read is ********.

Don't you mean "typed" rather than "read"

Yo do have problems with the English language don't you

Maxie, I am brilliant at the English language.

Wish on


--
geoff

John Rouse wrote:

In article lgate.org,
Michael McNeil writes

Glass does allow the price to drop considerably as it is cheaper than
bricks and mortar. Modern glass manufacture and today's tech in other
areas have put the old worries about glass well away.


Apart from the energy costs of its manufacture. The reflective glass in
particular uses more energy in its manufacture than it saves in the
lifetime of a building.



Yeah. I reckon we need a hutton report on double glazing, where it
clearly shows that it is better than a broken pane of agricltural galss
in a draughty crittal frame :-)


J.

In message , IMM
writes

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , IMM
writes


All the high-tech stuff is going to India, China, Malaysia, Germany, US

You mean low grade programming.

All the cars/trucks are made abroad (bar specialised low-volume)
What are all those degree 'qualified' people going to do ?.

We now have a massive service industry.

Which doesn't actually produce anything. Cleaners and caterers don't
generate wealth, they just move it around.

Maxie, you will have to find out what the service industry consists of.
Fixing boards is one of them. Now that is a starter for you.

As I said -they don't generate wealth, they just move it around


--
geoff

"Jerry." wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...
snip

de-urbanise. Germany is in trouble, as it struggles to adjust being
mainly
manufacturing based. Buy any consumer item in Germany and look at where
it
is made. China and Taiwan is more likely to be on the bottom.


Look at many consumer items you buy in the UK, many are made in the far
east
(and many of those made in the UK are only assembled here - the parts
coming
in from abroad), what has caused the problems in Germany is the
reunification of east and west Germany and the cost of modernising the
industries of the old East Germany.

That is true. But the realisation that much of their industry is falling
away to the far east is also a big factor. In the east at least they can
build new industries that don't compete with the far east. So a bit of a
win, win there.

The main problem with the Wilson Government was not creating highly
skilled
technicians, scientist etc but keeping them in the country once they
started
to earn money, they could earn more abroad - or should I say keep more of
that money...

That was a point. the brain drain. At one point Thatcher was encouraging it,
saying to graduates that you speak English the most widely spoken language
in the world and all the other virtues.

Wilson had a hell of job inheriting outdated industry that was neglected in
the 1950s. British management had a mentality of cheap labour rather than
efficiency using machines, that is why we has an immigration scheme.

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , derek
writes
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:08:38 +0000, Mike Mitchell
wrote:


But it IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE!

No it is the "Erics" capitalising on the "Wirtschafts Wunder" boost
they got after WW2 when we were paying for the defence of Germany and
our armies in Germany were spending money contributing to the German
economy but were a burden on our own/The Amercan's.

This attitude to planning and working is
absolutely standard in Germany! This kind of work is the norm
EVERYwhere!

Where I worked in Germany (Wildblad im Schwarzwald) the hours were as
we worked in the UK, and every afternoon at 3-00pm a trolley came
round loaded with a selection of beers (up to one litre!).

You were lucky !

We used to have to go downstairs to the lobby where they had 3 massive
beer vending machines.

Friday - return from lunch ...

"Geoff, it's almost the weekend, go and get the beer in"

... unless, of course, it was someone's birthday / child's christening /
engagement / joining / leaving / any other excuse, in which case, it was
obligatory to have a barrel of beer and some food.

When I was in a German office for a month, they would have the odd
celebration and out came the beer. We were never invited. The Germans do
focus on what they do and tend to do it better than the British. I found we
worked harder and out in more hours, but what they turned out was, although
less than us, we on the whole better quality. They were better managers and
organisers, needing only one shot to do it, whereas the British muddled
through. The Germans were better than us, although not as good as me.

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , IMM
writes

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , IMM
writes

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...
snip stuff about further education

This mut be a wind up or a first- a thread on uk.d-i-y where
everyone
is
agreeing AND talking sense !

All I have read is ********.

Don't you mean "typed" rather than "read"

Yo do have problems with the English language don't you

Maxie, I am brilliant at the English language.

Wish on

Maxie you left the full stop off the sentence.

In message , IMM
writes
agreeing AND talking sense !

All I have read is ********.

Don't you mean "typed" rather than "read"

Yo do have problems with the English language don't you

Maxie, I am brilliant at the English language.

Wish on

Maxie you left the full stop off the sentence.

As I usually do, see three lines above it

--
geoff

In message , IMM
writes

Where I worked in Germany (Wildblad im Schwarzwald) the hours were as
we worked in the UK, and every afternoon at 3-00pm a trolley came
round loaded with a selection of beers (up to one litre!).

You were lucky !

We used to have to go downstairs to the lobby where they had 3 massive
beer vending machines.

Friday - return from lunch ...

"Geoff, it's almost the weekend, go and get the beer in"

... unless, of course, it was someone's birthday / child's christening /
engagement / joining / leaving / any other excuse, in which case, it was
obligatory to have a barrel of beer and some food.

When I was in a German office for a month, they would have the odd
celebration and out came the beer. We were never invited.

I wonder why ?
--
geoff

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 13:15:40 +0000, geoff wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/3audc

If ever proof were needed! Take the worlds biggest w*nker, apply a
liberal dose of newspaper, and what do you get?

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 15:05:36 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Yeah. I reckon we need a hutton report on double glazing, where it
clearly shows that it is better than a broken pane of agricltural galss
in a draughty crittal frame :-)

My Crittall windows are NOT draughty!

MM