I wonder if anyone has any experience of wood laminate flooring.

We have a concrete floor, so 'proper' floorboards are out (without
putting batons in and stuff). We have been looking at the wood
laminates out there - some of which are very good and some very
expensive.

The typical ones seem to be 15mm thick, and for single plank are above
our budget. (Single plank is a particular bug-bear of mine as I think
the narrow strips look like laminate!).

However there is a Kahrs product which is only 7mm thick and is about
£22 a metre and looks really nice. As I understand it, the only
downside of this is longevity as you can't sand it down and re-oil.

Anyone any experience of these thinner products? Is it just false
economy? Or should I get over my aversion to 3 strip?

Daniel

I'm looking at this now also - although I will be laying on chipboard
underfloor.
I have chosent o go for QuickStep 800 (harvest Oak to be precise). If you
shop round on the net you get it for about £15m2 - it retails for about £25
in places like allied carpets. There's reason why you cant use htis range
too - just make sure you lay a damp-proof membrane between the underlay and
the concrete
http://www.aspenflooring.co.uk/shop/...nk_8002424.htm


"Daniel" wrote in message
om...
I wonder if anyone has any experience of wood laminate flooring.

We have a concrete floor, so 'proper' floorboards are out (without
putting batons in and stuff). We have been looking at the wood
laminates out there - some of which are very good and some very
expensive.

The typical ones seem to be 15mm thick, and for single plank are above
our budget. (Single plank is a particular bug-bear of mine as I think
the narrow strips look like laminate!).

However there is a Kahrs product which is only 7mm thick and is about
£22 a metre and looks really nice. As I understand it, the only
downside of this is longevity as you can't sand it down and re-oil.

Anyone any experience of these thinner products? Is it just false
economy? Or should I get over my aversion to 3 strip?

Daniel

"ginger_neil" wrote in message
...
I'm looking at this now also - although I will be laying on chipboard
underfloor.
I have chosent o go for QuickStep 800 (harvest Oak to be precise). If you
shop round on the net you get it for about £15m2 - it retails for about
£25
in places like allied carpets. There's reason why you cant use htis range
too - just make sure you lay a damp-proof membrane between the underlay
and
the concrete
http://www.aspenflooring.co.uk/shop/...nk_8002424.htm



I Concur with everything said above. I couldn't have put it better me'self
as they say. :-))


"Daniel" wrote in message
om...
I wonder if anyone has any experience of wood laminate flooring.

We have a concrete floor, so 'proper' floorboards are out (without
putting batons in and stuff). We have been looking at the wood
laminates out there - some of which are very good and some very
expensive.

The typical ones seem to be 15mm thick, and for single plank are above
our budget. (Single plank is a particular bug-bear of mine as I think
the narrow strips look like laminate!).

However there is a Kahrs product which is only 7mm thick and is about
£22 a metre and looks really nice. As I understand it, the only
downside of this is longevity as you can't sand it down and re-oil.

Anyone any experience of these thinner products? Is it just false
economy? Or should I get over my aversion to 3 strip?

Daniel

On or about Wed, 23 Jul 2003 at 15:31 GMT,
BigWallop illuminated us with:

"ginger_neil" wrote in message
...
I'm looking at this now also - although I will be laying on chipboard
underfloor.
I have chosent o go for QuickStep 800 (harvest Oak to be precise). If you
shop round on the net you get it for about £15m2 - it retails for about
£25
in places like allied carpets. There's reason why you cant use htis range
too - just make sure you lay a damp-proof membrane between the underlay
and
the concrete
http://www.aspenflooring.co.uk/shop/...nk_8002424.htm



I Concur with everything said above. I couldn't have put it better me'self
as they say. :-))

I've laid a floor of that make & model (Oak, long plank, but a different
pattern name). We're very pleased with it. The joints really are impressive
for closeness of fit. I did our conservatory, which has the advantage of
being a complete rectangle with no pipes in the way. I took it steadily and
completed the job (15 sq m) in just under a day, including the edging.
"Fiddly bits" would undoubtedly add to the time. The whole lot cost rather
less than £400 including edging and the special tool (which is to be
recommended). You'll need a good saw for the crosscuts and possibly a mitre
saw/block to cut the edge trim in the corners.

Check the price for all you need, not just the £/m2 price, the edging can be
very expensive. There are instructions (and even videos) online on the
QuickStep site which you can check in advance...

--
Mark
Please remove nospam | The only people who know what the future holds
to reply by email. | are script writers.
www.ayliffe.org |

"ginger_neil" wrote in message
...
I'm looking at this now also - although I will be laying on chipboard
underfloor.
I have chosent o go for QuickStep 800 (harvest Oak to be precise). If you
shop round on the net you get it for about £15m2 - it retails for about
£25
in places like allied carpets. There's reason why you cant use htis range
too - just make sure you lay a damp-proof membrane between the underlay
and
the concrete
http://www.aspenflooring.co.uk/shop/...nk_8002424.htm


It wasn't entirely clear whether these are solid wood surfaced (ie oak on
the oak ones) or photo finish from the web site, as they do a range of
definite wood ones as well (Baltic) at the same price (roughly as the
Kahrs). If they are wood surfaced, how thick is the top layer? I have some
15mm Kahrs next to me as I type, with a 6mm oak layer on top (3 plank). I
believe, as the OP suggested, as long as the underfloor is OK the thin
Kahrs stuff only suffers from not being able to sand down after 10 years or
so a couple of times.

We are currently also going through the same choosing process!


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

Fantastic - someone's brain to pick !!!!
A couple of question, if I may...:
1. Does the 'scotia' edging look OK? I am tempted to take the skirting off,
fit the laminate and then put the skiting back over the top to hide the
expansion gap. However, I am an absolute DIY virgin (will even be buying my
first saw for this !!) and am wondering if I am better sticking with the
edging.

2. What did you use to cut the planks ?? I was thinking of borrowing a
jigsaw and buying an appropriate blade - is this a good approach or might I
damage the laminate ??

3. when going under door frames, how easy was it to cut them to a high
sufficient to pass the laminate under ??

4. In relation to the above, when you slip the laminate under the doorframe,
how do you ensure there is still an expansion gap between the wall and
laminate ??

5. How did you attach the underlay to the floor - and did you overlap it
where there were joins ??

6. Are knee pads the MUST that everyone says they are ?!?!?!

7. Where did you get your lamainate and how much did you pay ??

I completely agree with your comments about the cost of 'extras'. I'll be
doing our entire flat (not bathroom and kitchen), total of about 55m2. The
cost of the laminate is about £760, but then the edging, tools, underlay etc
etc bumps that up to near £960 !!

Anyway - a couple of questions have quickly turned into lots !! I would much
appreciate your help !!


"Mark Ayliffe" wrote in
message ...
On or about Wed, 23 Jul 2003 at 15:31 GMT,
BigWallop illuminated us with:

"ginger_neil" wrote in message
...
I'm looking at this now also - although I will be laying on chipboard
underfloor.
I have chosent o go for QuickStep 800 (harvest Oak to be precise). If
you
shop round on the net you get it for about £15m2 - it retails for about
£25
in places like allied carpets. There's reason why you cant use htis
range
too - just make sure you lay a damp-proof membrane between the underlay
and
the concrete
http://www.aspenflooring.co.uk/shop/...nk_8002424.htm



I Concur with everything said above. I couldn't have put it better
me'self
as they say. :-))

I've laid a floor of that make & model (Oak, long plank, but a different
pattern name). We're very pleased with it. The joints really are
impressive
for closeness of fit. I did our conservatory, which has the advantage of
being a complete rectangle with no pipes in the way. I took it steadily
and
completed the job (15 sq m) in just under a day, including the edging.
"Fiddly bits" would undoubtedly add to the time. The whole lot cost rather
less than £400 including edging and the special tool (which is to be
recommended). You'll need a good saw for the crosscuts and possibly a
mitre
saw/block to cut the edge trim in the corners.

Check the price for all you need, not just the £/m2 price, the edging can
be
very expensive. There are instructions (and even videos) online on the
QuickStep site which you can check in advance...

--
Mark
Please remove nospam | The only people who know what the future
holds
to reply by email. | are script writers.
www.ayliffe.org |

ginger_neil wrote in message
...
Fantastic - someone's brain to pick !!!!
A couple of question, if I may...:
1. Does the 'scotia' edging look OK? I am tempted to take the skirting
off,
fit the laminate and then put the skiting back over the top to hide the
expansion gap. However, I am an absolute DIY virgin (will even be buying
my
first saw for this !!) and am wondering if I am better sticking with the
edging.

2. What did you use to cut the planks ?? I was thinking of borrowing a
jigsaw and buying an appropriate blade - is this a good approach or might
I
damage the laminate ??

3. when going under door frames, how easy was it to cut them to a high
sufficient to pass the laminate under ??

4. In relation to the above, when you slip the laminate under the
doorframe,
how do you ensure there is still an expansion gap between the wall and
laminate ??

5. How did you attach the underlay to the floor - and did you overlap it
where there were joins ??

6. Are knee pads the MUST that everyone says they are ?!?!?!

7. Where did you get your lamainate and how much did you pay ??

I completely agree with your comments about the cost of 'extras'. I'll be
doing our entire flat (not bathroom and kitchen), total of about 55m2. The
cost of the laminate is about £760, but then the edging, tools, underlay
etc
etc bumps that up to near £960 !!

Anyway - a couple of questions have quickly turned into lots !! I would
much
appreciate your help !!


I will attempt to answer *some* of the above questions, having recently laid
some engineered wood flooring - which is similar to laminate, but about
twice as thick and has a real wood surface.

If at all possible, take the skirting board off and replace (or renew) it
after laying the flooring. In my opinion, beading round the edge *always*
looks like a retro-fit job. [But paint the skirting *before* (re-)fitting it
so as not to get paint on the floor, and stick it on with GripFill.

A jigsaw, with a fine blade designed for laminate is fine. The pundits say
to cut from the underside so as not to tear the top surface. Whilst this is
good advice, some people find it difficult to measure and mark out odd
shaped pieces which are the wrong way round - and the cut will be covered by
the skirting anyway.

Even if you don't remove the skirting boards, you *must* undercut the door
frames. For this, you need a fairly bendy hand saw. You place a scrap piece
of laminate against the frame, lay the saw flat on it, use one hand to keep
the business end of the saw flat, and the other to move the slightly bent up
handle end to and fro. [It's actually much simpler than it sounds]. If the
saw doesn't cut all the way through the frame - as sometimes happens with
rebated frames - you may have to use a sharp narrow chisel to remove the
wood below the cut.

To ensure that you have an expansion gap under the door frame, slide a scrap
piece of laminate under the frame and mark how far it goes before hitting
something solid. Then measure and cut your actual piece so that it goes
under the frame but still ends a few mm short of the wall.

I laid my flooring on a solid concrete sub-floor, and used combined
underlay/damp-proof membrane. The membrane extended beyond the underlay down
one edge, complete with a peel-off adhesive strip to facilitate overlaps.
The underlay isn't actually *stuck* to the floor - but it ain't got nowhere
to go!

I have never used knee pads, but I *do* have an old cushion to kneel on.

I'll leave it to others to answer about prices and sources of supply,
because I used a different material.

One final point, *do* get all the proper tools - wedges, knocking block,
pulling bar, webbing clamps, etc. if you want to make a decent job. My one
regret is that I didn't buy a heavy duty pulling bar - the one which came in
the £8 kit was far too flimsy, and one or two joints in awkward places are
not as tight as I would have liked.

HTH,
Roger

Thanks for the info.

"Roger Mills" wrote in
message ...

ginger_neil wrote in message
...
Fantastic - someone's brain to pick !!!!
A couple of question, if I may...:
1. Does the 'scotia' edging look OK? I am tempted to take the skirting
off,
fit the laminate and then put the skiting back over the top to hide the
expansion gap. However, I am an absolute DIY virgin (will even be buying
my
first saw for this !!) and am wondering if I am better sticking with the
edging.

2. What did you use to cut the planks ?? I was thinking of borrowing a
jigsaw and buying an appropriate blade - is this a good approach or
might
I
damage the laminate ??

3. when going under door frames, how easy was it to cut them to a high
sufficient to pass the laminate under ??

4. In relation to the above, when you slip the laminate under the
doorframe,
how do you ensure there is still an expansion gap between the wall and
laminate ??

5. How did you attach the underlay to the floor - and did you overlap it
where there were joins ??

6. Are knee pads the MUST that everyone says they are ?!?!?!

7. Where did you get your lamainate and how much did you pay ??

I completely agree with your comments about the cost of 'extras'. I'll
be
doing our entire flat (not bathroom and kitchen), total of about 55m2.
The
cost of the laminate is about £760, but then the edging, tools, underlay
etc
etc bumps that up to near £960 !!

Anyway - a couple of questions have quickly turned into lots !! I would
much
appreciate your help !!


I will attempt to answer *some* of the above questions, having recently
laid
some engineered wood flooring - which is similar to laminate, but about
twice as thick and has a real wood surface.

If at all possible, take the skirting board off and replace (or renew) it
after laying the flooring. In my opinion, beading round the edge *always*
looks like a retro-fit job. [But paint the skirting *before* (re-)fitting
it
so as not to get paint on the floor, and stick it on with GripFill.

A jigsaw, with a fine blade designed for laminate is fine. The pundits say
to cut from the underside so as not to tear the top surface. Whilst this
is
good advice, some people find it difficult to measure and mark out odd
shaped pieces which are the wrong way round - and the cut will be covered
by
the skirting anyway.

Even if you don't remove the skirting boards, you *must* undercut the door
frames. For this, you need a fairly bendy hand saw. You place a scrap
piece
of laminate against the frame, lay the saw flat on it, use one hand to
keep
the business end of the saw flat, and the other to move the slightly bent
up
handle end to and fro. [It's actually much simpler than it sounds]. If the
saw doesn't cut all the way through the frame - as sometimes happens with
rebated frames - you may have to use a sharp narrow chisel to remove the
wood below the cut.

To ensure that you have an expansion gap under the door frame, slide a
scrap
piece of laminate under the frame and mark how far it goes before hitting
something solid. Then measure and cut your actual piece so that it goes
under the frame but still ends a few mm short of the wall.

I laid my flooring on a solid concrete sub-floor, and used combined
underlay/damp-proof membrane. The membrane extended beyond the underlay
down
one edge, complete with a peel-off adhesive strip to facilitate overlaps.
The underlay isn't actually *stuck* to the floor - but it ain't got
nowhere
to go!

I have never used knee pads, but I *do* have an old cushion to kneel on.

I'll leave it to others to answer about prices and sources of supply,
because I used a different material.

One final point, *do* get all the proper tools - wedges, knocking block,
pulling bar, webbing clamps, etc. if you want to make a decent job. My one
regret is that I didn't buy a heavy duty pulling bar - the one which came
in
the £8 kit was far too flimsy, and one or two joints in awkward places are
not as tight as I would have liked.

HTH,
Roger

On or about Wed, 23 Jul 2003 at 16:35 GMT,
Bob Mannix illuminated us with:
"ginger_neil" wrote in message
...
I'm looking at this now also - although I will be laying on chipboard
underfloor.
I have chosent o go for QuickStep 800 (harvest Oak to be precise). If you
shop round on the net you get it for about £15m2 - it retails for about
£25
in places like allied carpets. There's reason why you cant use htis range
too - just make sure you lay a damp-proof membrane between the underlay
and
the concrete
http://www.aspenflooring.co.uk/shop/...nk_8002424.htm


It wasn't entirely clear whether these are solid wood surfaced (ie oak on
the oak ones) or photo finish from the web site, as they do a range of
definite wood ones as well (Baltic) at the same price (roughly as the
Kahrs).

The finish is synthetic. There are around 6 different grain patterns and
each pack is mixed patterns. The only wood in the boards was originally
sawdust. :-)

Sanding is simply not an option with this stuff, the top layers are plastic.

--
Mark
Please remove nospam |
to reply by email. | Why do we call the airport "the terminal" if flying is so safe?
www.ayliffe.org |

thanks for the info - I appreciate your input.
We should be moving in within the next month so it's going to be a while til
I get going on this - good to have soem initial ideas / plans though.
Cheers.

"Mark Ayliffe" wrote in
message ...
On or about Thu, 24 Jul 2003 at 08:47 GMT,
ginger_neil illuminated us with:
Fantastic - someone's brain to pick !!!!
A couple of question, if I may...:

1. Does the 'scotia' edging look OK? I am tempted to take the skirting
off,
fit the laminate and then put the skiting back over the top to hide the
expansion gap. However, I am an absolute DIY virgin (will even be buying
my
first saw for this !!) and am wondering if I am better sticking with the
edging.

The answer to that's a bit subjective, and it depends how easily your
skirting will come off I expect. Some of the laminate edging will allow
you
a bit more space to "get it wrong", but then so might a thicker skirting.
I
used Uniclic QS Edge profile which in my opinion looks OK in a
conservatory.
It may not be a good "look" in other rooms and you may have a lot of work
fixing your walls where the skirting used to be. And my underfloor wasn't
as
solid as I thought, so this particular method is a bit of a compromise. It
also meant that I couldn't really use the spacers as intended, so a lot of
the gap judgement was "by eye".

2. What did you use to cut the planks ?? I was thinking of borrowing a
jigsaw and buying an appropriate blade - is this a good approach or
might I
damage the laminate ??

I borrowed a handheld circular saw and also used a jigsaw. The jigsaw
alone
would be fine and (in my case) had the advantage of a selection of blades.
The circular saw was of course quicker, though not inherently more
accurate.
A bench circular saw or band saw is probably the next "step up", but
overkill really. As other have said, the cuts are hidden by the skirting.
The material is basically some kind of high density fibreboard and you
need
to make the dust somewhere that doesn't matter, it's nasty stuff. Of
course
I was able to work outside for the cutting, which helped.

3. when going under door frames, how easy was it to cut them to a high
sufficient to pass the laminate under ??

I didn't have to deal with these problems, but I see someone else has
already answered this point.

4. In relation to the above, when you slip the laminate under the
doorframe,
how do you ensure there is still an expansion gap between the wall and
laminate ??

I'd guess by using the spacers on the wall adjacent to the door.

5. How did you attach the underlay to the floor - and did you overlap it
where there were joins ??

You don't attach it, it's supposed to be free to move a bit. The underlay
I
got had a wide strip of polythene without foam along each edge. This was
sufficent overlap & then I used gaffer tape to join it. DON'T DO THIS, use
something more likle parcel tape. Gaffer tape is too sticky on the "wrong"
side and doesn't let the floor slide. I don't think I';ve done any long
term
harm, but it was a pain fitting the boards over the joint.

6. Are knee pads the MUST that everyone says they are ?!?!?!

They are your knees! I didn't use pads (and it was a hot day, I was
wearing
shorts IIRC), but I'm hard like that!

7. Where did you get your lamainate and how much did you pay ??

According to my CC statement I must have used Aspen (online)
http://www.aspen-laminate-wood-floor...shop/index.htm
AKA Alaris Ltd apparently. This was a few months back, they may not have
the
best deals today.

I completely agree with your comments about the cost of 'extras'. I'll
be
doing our entire flat (not bathroom and kitchen), total of about 55m2.
The
cost of the laminate is about £760, but then the edging, tools, underlay
etc
etc bumps that up to near £960 !!

Anyway - a couple of questions have quickly turned into lots !! I would
much
appreciate your help !!

OK, Hope that lot helps! All the best.

--
Mark
Please remove nospam | Ambition is a poor excuse
to reply by email. | for not having enough sense to be
lazy.
www.ayliffe.org |