The stopcock under my sink doesn't turn the water off fully and I want
to repair/replace it. I have a stopcock outside under the kitchen
window, 2 feet down. It's one of those with a small 'bar' on it rather
than a tap, and you turn it quarter of a turn to turn it off, then
another quarter turn to turn it on, etc. I have a long T-bar with the
appropriate end for fitting over the tap. The problem is I can't shift it.

I did manage to operate it back in September just after we moved in. All
it needed then was a squirt of WD-40 and a little bit of force. Now,
I've given it copious amounts of WD-40 and a *lot* of force (probably
more than I ought to) and it won't budge at all.

There's a stopcock across the road belonging to Scottish Water, but it
serves two other properties here, and I don't want to mess around with it.

Any suggestions? Is it time to admit defeat and call a plumber?
--
Steve Loft
Wanlockhead, Dumfriesshire. 1417ft ASL
http://www.wanlockhead.org.uk/weather/

Steve Loft wrote in message ...
The stopcock under my sink doesn't turn the water off fully and I want
to repair/replace it. I have a stopcock outside under the kitchen
window, 2 feet down. It's one of those with a small 'bar' on it rather
than a tap, and you turn it quarter of a turn to turn it off, then
another quarter turn to turn it on, etc. I have a long T-bar with the
appropriate end for fitting over the tap. The problem is I can't shift it.
I'd say it's the water board's property, and only they can touch it/break
it. And if it's your only way of turning the water off, they should do it
for free. Thames Water did this for a neighbour of ours but I don't think he
had an internal stopcock at all (or more likely couldn't find it).

stuart noble wrote:

I'd say it's the water board's property, and only they can touch it/break
it. And if it's your only way of turning the water off, they should do it
for free. Thames Water did this for a neighbour of ours but I don't think he
had an internal stopcock at all (or more likely couldn't find it).

It's definitely mine - it's mentioned in the deeds.

I did phone them and say I had several dripping taps to fix (which is
true) thinking that they would send someone round to turn off the water
FOC in the interests of water conservation, but they say I should get a
plumber.
--
Steve Loft
Wanlockhead, Dumfriesshire. 1417ft ASL
http://www.wanlockhead.org.uk/weather/

"Steve Loft" wrote in message
...
The stopcock under my sink doesn't turn the water off fully and I want
to repair/replace it. I have a stopcock outside under the kitchen
window, 2 feet down. It's one of those with a small 'bar' on it rather
than a tap, and you turn it quarter of a turn to turn it off, then
another quarter turn to turn it on, etc. I have a long T-bar with the
appropriate end for fitting over the tap. The problem is I can't shift it.

I did manage to operate it back in September just after we moved in. All
it needed then was a squirt of WD-40 and a little bit of force. Now,
I've given it copious amounts of WD-40 and a *lot* of force (probably
more than I ought to) and it won't budge at all.

There's a stopcock across the road belonging to Scottish Water, but it
serves two other properties here, and I don't want to mess around with it.

Any suggestions? Is it time to admit defeat and call a plumber?

Steve Loft


Has the valve got a bar handle or wheel head ? If it's a proper stopcock
then it should have a bar handle on it and these can be turned gently with
the help of a ring spanner on one of the ends to give your hand a bit more
leverage. When you get it moving freely again make sure you don't turn it
fully open until it stops, but leave it a bit slack and it helps to keep it
free for the next time it's needed to be turned off. When these valves are
turn on until they're hard open they seize against the gearing inside and
are very difficult to turn off again.

Failing that. Get or make a Toby key and turn the water supply off to your
house, but make sure the supply is only for your house and not anyone else's
nearby as well. That'll make the job a whole lot quicker and safer, and
you'll know it's done properly.


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"Steve Loft" wrote in message
...
The stopcock under my sink doesn't turn the water off fully and I want
to repair/replace it. I have a stopcock outside under the kitchen
window, 2 feet down. It's one of those with a small 'bar' on it rather
than a tap, and you turn it quarter of a turn to turn it off, then
another quarter turn to turn it on, etc. I have a long T-bar with the
appropriate end for fitting over the tap. The problem is I can't shift it.

I don't want to make a stupid suggestion, but are you 100% sure you're
turning it the right way.

I've stayed in one property with a 1/4-turn underground stop-cock (with/part
of the water meter, IIRC) which turned the 'wrong' way for on/off. Most
confusing.

I did manage to operate it back in September just after we moved in. All
it needed then was a squirt of WD-40 and a little bit of force. Now,
I've given it copious amounts of WD-40 and a *lot* of force (probably
more than I ought to) and it won't budge at all.

Seems strange that it's stuck already, doesn't it.

There's a stopcock across the road belonging to Scottish Water, but it
serves two other properties here, and I don't want to mess around with it.

That sounds like a route to being able to replace the one under the sink,
though?

Any suggestions? Is it time to admit defeat and call a plumber?

I'm sure finding a plumber is harder than what you're trying to do!

Will



--
Steve Loft
Wanlockhead, Dumfriesshire. 1417ft ASL
http://www.wanlockhead.org.uk/weather/

BigWallop wrote:

Has the valve got a bar handle or wheel head ?

I think that the thing I am trying to turn is actually a Toby. It's
nearly 3 feet underground so I can't reach it. It has a metal bar along
the top of it, an inch or so long, and I turn it quarter of a turn in
either direction to turn the water off, using the tool I bought which I
think is probably a Toby Key. It's about 4 ft long, T-shaped, with a
'claw' type thing on the end that fits over the bar on the valve. Worked
fine in September, won't budge it now.

I can't mess with the valve out in the road as that supplies two other
houses too.

So I guess maybe my question should be "how do I unstick a stuck Toby?".
Without digging, preferably!

--
Steve Loft
Wanlockhead, Dumfriesshire. 1417ft ASL
http://www.wanlockhead.org.uk/weather/

Will Dean wrote:

I don't want to make a stupid suggestion, but are you 100% sure you're
turning it the right way.

I've stayed in one property with a 1/4-turn underground stop-cock (with/part
of the water meter, IIRC) which turned the 'wrong' way for on/off. Most
confusing.

I'm pretty sure that it works in either direction, from the
experimenting I did when I had it working. It just keeps turning without
reaching a stop, and the water goes on or off every quarter turn.

Seems strange that it's stuck already, doesn't it.

Yes. But we've had some pretty cold weather up here since then, I
wondered if that had something to do with it.

I'm sure finding a plumber is harder than what you're trying to do!

Tell me about it. I've been trying to get a heating engineer out to look
at my oil-fired boiler for the last three months.

--
Steve Loft
Wanlockhead, Dumfriesshire. 1417ft ASL
http://www.wanlockhead.org.uk/weather/

Steve Loft wrote:

BigWallop wrote:

Has the valve got a bar handle or wheel head ?


I think that the thing I am trying to turn is actually a Toby. It's
nearly 3 feet underground so I can't reach it. It has a metal bar along
the top of it, an inch or so long, and I turn it quarter of a turn in
either direction to turn the water off, using the tool I bought which I
think is probably a Toby Key. It's about 4 ft long, T-shaped, with a
'claw' type thing on the end that fits over the bar on the valve. Worked
fine in September, won't budge it now.

I can't mess with the valve out in the road as that supplies two other
houses too.

So I guess maybe my question should be "how do I unstick a stuck Toby?".
Without digging, preferably!


Use a longer lever.

put bits of pipe over the T bar ends and get a mate in to handle one side.

"Steve Loft" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:

Has the valve got a bar handle or wheel head ?

I think that the thing I am trying to turn is actually a Toby. It's
nearly 3 feet underground so I can't reach it. It has a metal bar along
the top of it, an inch or so long, and I turn it quarter of a turn in
either direction to turn the water off, using the tool I bought which I
think is probably a Toby Key. It's about 4 ft long, T-shaped, with a
'claw' type thing on the end that fits over the bar on the valve. Worked
fine in September, won't budge it now.

I can't mess with the valve out in the road as that supplies two other
houses too.

So I guess maybe my question should be "how do I unstick a stuck Toby?".
Without digging, preferably!


Steve Loft


The first part of my reply was meant for the stopcock in the house. :-))


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BigWallop wrote:

The first part of my reply was meant for the stopcock in the house. :-))

Ah, right, sorry

Well, a bit more force on the inside tap (it has a bar handle) sloed the
water to a trickle, enough to let me change the washers, thanks.

But I think I'd still like to replace it, so maybe a bit more leverage
on the toby is called for.

--
Steve Loft
Wanlockhead, Dumfriesshire. 1417ft ASL
http://www.wanlockhead.org.uk/weather/

"Will Dean" wrote in message ...
"Steve Loft" wrote in message
...
The stopcock under my sink doesn't turn the water off fully and I want
to repair/replace it. I have a stopcock outside under the kitchen
window, 2 feet down. It's one of those with a small 'bar' on it rather
than a tap, and you turn it quarter of a turn to turn it off, then
another quarter turn to turn it on, etc. I have a long T-bar with the
appropriate end for fitting over the tap. The problem is I can't shift it.


I've never used it, but I have noticed pipe freeze spray in the
screwfix catalogue which claims to give 30 mins working time and
doesn't crack the pipe.

Presumably this is for exactly this type of situation where you could
freeze the incoming main inside your house and hold off the wafer long
enough for you to fit a new stop cock.

Anyone used this?

I thought I would have to do this myself a while back until I managed
to locate the stopcock in my house, but I'd be interested to know if
this works or not for future use.

Cheers,
Stephen

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:29:53 UTC,
(Ginty) wrote:

Presumably this is for exactly this type of situation where you could
freeze the incoming main inside your house and hold off the wafer long
enough for you to fit a new stop cock.

I have to say I chickened out and got the water company to do it. It was
a sod of a job at ground level, in a corner, lots of other bits of pipe
round it. The guy took nearly three hours to fit a new stopcock (lever)
and tidied all the pipes too.

Chose them because it was fixed price - 79.95 inclusive of parts, labour
and VAT. Not bad, I thought, anyway.

--
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325*4; PS/2s 9585, 8595, 9595*2, 8580*3,
P70...

I've never used it, but I have noticed pipe freeze spray in the
screwfix catalogue which claims to give 30 mins working time and
doesn't crack the pipe.

Plumbers use CO2 to do the same thing; cheaper to run but expensive to buy. If
you have contacts in a research lab, I find a thermos of liquid nitrogen works
just fine (get help if you don't know how to handle it). The low temperature
will make some plastics brittle, but copper is OK.

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:57:50 +0000, Steve Loft wrote:

I'd say it's the water board's property, and only they can touch
it/break it. And if it's your only way of turning the water off,
they should do it for free.

The one outside yes. That is the demarkation point between their
pipework and responsiblity and your pipework and responsibilty.

It's definitely mine - it's mentioned in the deeds.

Does it specifically say that the stop cock is your actual property or
just that this is the stop cock *for* your property? (Or similar
words). If it definately states it is your property then there should
be another water board one further upstream...

I suspect it's in the deeds just to tell you where it is. I couldn't
find the external stopcock here. Called the water board and on the
morning he turned up I found it about half an hour before hand 25
yards down the road. There is am 18" high concrete marker post against
the wall but summer vegitation grows to 3'+...

I did phone them and say I had several dripping taps to fix (which
is true) thinking that they would send someone round to turn off the
water FOC in the interests of water conservation, but they say I
should get a plumber.

Provided the external one is the water boards call 'em back and say
you can't find it or that you can't turn it on/off.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Dave Liquorice wrote:

Does it specifically say that the stop cock is your actual property or
just that this is the stop cock *for* your property?

The deeds specifically say that I am responsible for its maintenance,
and the pipework up to my neigbours' boundaries. I am also jointly
responsible for some of the stopcocks and pipework on my neighbours'
properties.

When the snow has gone I'll try to work out where all these other
stopcocks are!
--
Steve Loft
Wanlockhead, Dumfriesshire. 1417ft ASL
http://www.wanlockhead.org.uk/weather/

Well, a bit more force on the inside tap (it has a bar handle) sloed
the water to a trickle, enough to let me change the washers, thanks.

My non-working internal stopcock (no reachable outside one) was "replaced"
with a working one by turning down the original as far as it would go (still
gushing in my case, rather than dripping) and then chopping off the old pipe
and shoving a pre-prepared lever ball valve and pipe stub into the old one.
Tighten this up and turn off the new valve. The old valve can then be opened
back up fully. Surprisingly little water escapes when you do it quickly.

Christian.

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:52:18 +0000, Steve Loft wrote:

The deeds specifically say that I am responsible for its
maintenance, and the pipework up to my neigbours' boundaries. I am
also jointly responsible for some of the stopcocks and pipework on
my neighbours' properties.

Sounds like a hang over from an old private water supply to a small
group of houses. Where the mains connects to this system there should
be a water board stop cock. Of course closing that will shut of your
neighbours as well...

However you need a stopcock somethere that will work just for you.
Suggest you chat to your neighbours and arrange a mutually convient
time for you to shut the main stopcock and change your internal one.
Shouldn't take to long if you are ready to with all the bits required
to cut the pipe and bung on the new valve. Once the new valve is
connected (and closed) you can turn the main stopcock back on. 10mins?

At some point in the future it maybe worth checking all the other
stopcocks and have replacement session in one hit when the weather is
more conducive to working in a wet hole.

One though that has just occured about why your external stopcock has
seized so quickly after last use is that you mentioned WD40. If this
is a plastic valve the solvents in the WD40 may have done nasty things
to the plastics, or even any O rings in a metal valve...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Dave Liquorice wrote:

However you need a stopcock somethere that will work just for you.
Suggest you chat to your neighbours and arrange a mutually convient
time for you to shut the main stopcock and change your internal one.

I'll just wait for the power/water to be off again, shouldn't be long...

One though that has just occured about why your external stopcock has
seized so quickly after last use is that you mentioned WD40. If this
is a plastic valve the solvents in the WD40 may have done nasty things
to the plastics, or even any O rings in a metal valve...

Good point. Can't tell what the valve's made of at all, other than the
metal ridge along the top.

--
Steve Loft
Wanlockhead, Dumfriesshire. 1417ft ASL
http://www.wanlockhead.org.uk/weather/