I am making a cylindrical nickel plating tank as I find that the bucket I
usually use often isn't deep enough - currently need to plate some 27"
shafts. So I've made up a 30" length of 160 mm underground drain with a stop
end at the lower end. Shape is ideal as I can drop a tank bubbler in the
bottom for agitation and the entire length of the shaft will be agitated.
However although I've been using fish tank heaters in a plastic bucket, and
they've survived the occasional 'total immersion', in this tank they will be
well under the surface. It occurs to me that they might not stand up to this
treatment - any opinions?

(I have a fall back plan to slip a suitable diameter plastic tube over the
cable and top 1" of the 'test tube' that they are built in, secured with a
plastic clip but I'd like to avoid it as the plastic tube will be relatively
inflexible and tend to knock over the vessel)

These are the heaters I'm using:


http://tinyurl.com/fish-tank-heater


Andrew

On 9/7/2016 3:09 PM, Andrew Mawson wrote:

I am making a cylindrical nickel plating tank as I find that the bucket
I usually use often isn't deep enough - currently need to plate some 27"
shafts. So I've made up a 30" length of 160 mm underground drain with a
stop end at the lower end. Shape is ideal as I can drop a tank bubbler
in the bottom for agitation and the entire length of the shaft will be
agitated. However although I've been using fish tank heaters in a
plastic bucket, and they've survived the occasional 'total immersion',
in this tank they will be well under the surface. It occurs to me that
they might not stand up to this treatment - any opinions?

(I have a fall back plan to slip a suitable diameter plastic tube over
the cable and top 1" of the 'test tube' that they are built in, secured
with a plastic clip but I'd like to avoid it as the plastic tube will be
relatively inflexible and tend to knock over the vessel)

These are the heaters I'm using:


http://tinyurl.com/fish-tank-heater


Andrew


I'd expect them to be OK. Although the ad talks about not lying them on
the floor of an aquarium because of the pressure, I'd be surprised if
they couldn't take a couple of psi, which is all they will see even at
the bottom.

You will have RCD/RCBO protection presumably?

In article ,
Andrew Mawson wrote:

I am making a cylindrical nickel plating tank as I find that the bucket
I usually use often isn't deep enough - currently need to plate some
27" shafts. So I've made up a 30" length of 160 mm underground drain
with a stop end at the lower end. Shape is ideal as I can drop a tank
bubbler in the bottom for agitation and the entire length of the shaft
will be agitated. However although I've been using fish tank heaters in
a plastic bucket, and they've survived the occasional 'total
immersion', in this tank they will be well under the surface. It occurs
to me that they might not stand up to this treatment - any opinions?

(I have a fall back plan to slip a suitable diameter plastic tube over
the cable and top 1" of the 'test tube' that they are built in, secured
with a plastic clip but I'd like to avoid it as the plastic tube will
be relatively inflexible and tend to knock over the vessel)

These are the heaters I'm using:


http://tinyurl.com/fish-tank-heater


The cable entry doesn't look waterproof to me. Nor does the temperature
adjustment.

--
*A plateau is a high form of flattery*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 7 Sep 2016 15:09:01 +0100, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:


I am making a cylindrical nickel plating tank as I find that the bucket I
usually use often isn't deep enough - currently need to plate some 27"
shafts. So I've made up a 30" length of 160 mm underground drain with a stop
end at the lower end. Shape is ideal as I can drop a tank bubbler in the
bottom for agitation and the entire length of the shaft will be agitated.
However although I've been using fish tank heaters in a plastic bucket, and
they've survived the occasional 'total immersion', in this tank they will be
well under the surface. It occurs to me that they might not stand up to this
treatment - any opinions?

(I have a fall back plan to slip a suitable diameter plastic tube over the
cable and top 1" of the 'test tube' that they are built in, secured with a
plastic clip but I'd like to avoid it as the plastic tube will be relatively
inflexible and tend to knock over the vessel)

These are the heaters I'm using:


http://tinyurl.com/fish-tank-heater


Andrew


My aquaeium heater is over 30 years old and although I try to keep the
top above the surface it must have spent a good while totally
submerged with no ill effects.




--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On Wednesday, 7 September 2016 15:08:19 UTC+1, Andrew Mawson wrote:

I am making a cylindrical nickel plating tank as I find that the bucket I
usually use often isn't deep enough - currently need to plate some 27"
shafts. So I've made up a 30" length of 160 mm underground drain with a stop
end at the lower end. Shape is ideal as I can drop a tank bubbler in the
bottom for agitation and the entire length of the shaft will be agitated.
However although I've been using fish tank heaters in a plastic bucket, and
they've survived the occasional 'total immersion', in this tank they will be
well under the surface. It occurs to me that they might not stand up to this
treatment - any opinions?

(I have a fall back plan to slip a suitable diameter plastic tube over the
cable and top 1" of the 'test tube' that they are built in, secured with a
plastic clip but I'd like to avoid it as the plastic tube will be relatively
inflexible and tend to knock over the vessel)

These are the heaters I'm using:


http://tinyurl.com/fish-tank-heater


Andrew

Standard aquarium heaters are totally waterproof, but I doubt those ebay ones are.


NT

On Wed, 07 Sep 2016 15:38:53 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 9/7/2016 3:09 PM, Andrew Mawson wrote:

I am making a cylindrical nickel plating tank as I find that the bucket
I usually use often isn't deep enough - currently need to plate some 27"
shafts. So I've made up a 30" length of 160 mm underground drain with a
stop end at the lower end. Shape is ideal as I can drop a tank bubbler
in the bottom for agitation and the entire length of the shaft will be
agitated. However although I've been using fish tank heaters in a
plastic bucket, and they've survived the occasional 'total immersion',
in this tank they will be well under the surface. It occurs to me that
they might not stand up to this treatment - any opinions?

(I have a fall back plan to slip a suitable diameter plastic tube over
the cable and top 1" of the 'test tube' that they are built in, secured
with a plastic clip but I'd like to avoid it as the plastic tube will be
relatively inflexible and tend to knock over the vessel)

These are the heaters I'm using:


http://tinyurl.com/fish-tank-heater


Andrew


I'd expect them to be OK. Although the ad talks about not lying them on
the floor of an aquarium because of the pressure, I'd be surprised if
they couldn't take a couple of psi, which is all they will see even at
the bottom.

You will have RCD/RCBO protection presumably?

You only need that if there's fish in it.

--
Customer explaining flooded car to insurance claim investigator:
"It didn't look that deep at first glance - it only came half way up the ducks."

On Wednesday, 7 September 2016 15:08:19 UTC+1, Andrew Mawson wrote:
I am making a cylindrical nickel plating tank as I find that the bucket I
usually use often isn't deep enough - currently need to plate some 27"
shafts. So I've made up a 30" length of 160 mm underground drain with a stop
end at the lower end. Shape is ideal as I can drop a tank bubbler in the
bottom for agitation and the entire length of the shaft will be agitated.
However although I've been using fish tank heaters in a plastic bucket, and
they've survived the occasional 'total immersion', in this tank they will be
well under the surface. It occurs to me that they might not stand up to this
treatment - any opinions?

(I have a fall back plan to slip a suitable diameter plastic tube over the
cable and top 1" of the 'test tube' that they are built in, secured with a
plastic clip but I'd like to avoid it as the plastic tube will be relatively
inflexible and tend to knock over the vessel)

These are the heaters I'm using:


http://tinyurl.com/fish-tank-heater

I'd have thought they;d be alright as the are designed to be submurged mine was almost always under the water.

I;d be very worried by a heater that looked as though adjusting teh temperature with wet hands looked dangerous as it's difficult to adjust these things without getting yuor hand went and even your arm while adjusting such things.

I wouldn;t worry if buying from a shop but buying these cheap ones from ebay I might be more careful.

Regarding not letting them sink to the bottom I don;t think it's the PSI, it's that if it was in left on the gravel over time it could create a hot spot on teh glass as normally the heater relies on water passing over it to cool the outer glass which can get pretty hot if not underwater. So if it's resting on teh bottom it could cause problems as the glass wouldn;t call as expected, again with a cheap ebay item I'd be more worried.

On 07/09/2016 15:38, newshound wrote:

I'd expect them to be OK. Although the ad talks about not lying them on
the floor of an aquarium because of the pressure, I'd be surprised if
they couldn't take a couple of psi,

It's probably more to do with overheating. Aquarium heaters need a free
flow of water around all of the heater. Rest a side on the bottom of a
tank and that side of the heater will 'cook' the glass envelope.

In 30+ years, the aquarium heaters I have owed could have, and did,
survive full immersion in water.


--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 9/7/2016 4:58 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Wed, 07 Sep 2016 15:38:53 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 9/7/2016 3:09 PM, Andrew Mawson wrote:

I am making a cylindrical nickel plating tank as I find that the bucket
I usually use often isn't deep enough - currently need to plate some 27"
shafts. So I've made up a 30" length of 160 mm underground drain with a
stop end at the lower end. Shape is ideal as I can drop a tank bubbler
in the bottom for agitation and the entire length of the shaft will be
agitated. However although I've been using fish tank heaters in a
plastic bucket, and they've survived the occasional 'total immersion',
in this tank they will be well under the surface. It occurs to me that
they might not stand up to this treatment - any opinions?

(I have a fall back plan to slip a suitable diameter plastic tube over
the cable and top 1" of the 'test tube' that they are built in, secured
with a plastic clip but I'd like to avoid it as the plastic tube will be
relatively inflexible and tend to knock over the vessel)

These are the heaters I'm using:


http://tinyurl.com/fish-tank-heater


Andrew


I'd expect them to be OK. Although the ad talks about not lying them on
the floor of an aquarium because of the pressure, I'd be surprised if
they couldn't take a couple of psi, which is all they will see even at
the bottom.

You will have RCD/RCBO protection presumably?

You only need that if there's fish in it.

Plating fluid has high conductivity (of course). You don't want to zap
yourself or the DC supply with mains.

On 9/7/2016 5:02 PM, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 7 September 2016 15:08:19 UTC+1, Andrew Mawson wrote:
I am making a cylindrical nickel plating tank as I find that the bucket I
usually use often isn't deep enough - currently need to plate some 27"
shafts. So I've made up a 30" length of 160 mm underground drain with a stop
end at the lower end. Shape is ideal as I can drop a tank bubbler in the
bottom for agitation and the entire length of the shaft will be agitated.
However although I've been using fish tank heaters in a plastic bucket, and
they've survived the occasional 'total immersion', in this tank they will be
well under the surface. It occurs to me that they might not stand up to this
treatment - any opinions?

(I have a fall back plan to slip a suitable diameter plastic tube over the
cable and top 1" of the 'test tube' that they are built in, secured with a
plastic clip but I'd like to avoid it as the plastic tube will be relatively
inflexible and tend to knock over the vessel)

These are the heaters I'm using:


http://tinyurl.com/fish-tank-heater

I'd have thought they;d be alright as the are designed to be submurged mine was almost always under the water.

I;d be very worried by a heater that looked as though adjusting teh temperature with wet hands looked dangerous as it's difficult to adjust these things without getting yuor hand went and even your arm while adjusting such things.

I wouldn;t worry if buying from a shop but buying these cheap ones from ebay I might be more careful.

Regarding not letting them sink to the bottom I don;t think it's the PSI, it's that if it was in left on the gravel over time it could create a hot spot on teh glass as normally the heater relies on water passing over it to cool the outer glass which can get pretty hot if not underwater. So if it's resting on teh bottom it could cause problems as the glass wouldn;t call as expected, again with a cheap ebay item I'd be more worried.



In the old days, the far east used to make cheap clones of quality
western stuff. These days, I suspect most of that sort of stuff, even
when sold with nice packaging in pet shops, comes out of the same far
eastern factories. They have recognised that they make more money from
good quality products.

You are quite right about hot spots, though.

On 07/09/2016 15:09, Andrew Mawson wrote:

I am making a cylindrical nickel plating tank as I find that the bucket
I usually use often isn't deep enough - currently need to plate some 27"
shafts. So I've made up a 30" length of 160 mm underground drain with a
stop end at the lower end. Shape is ideal as I can drop a tank bubbler
in the bottom for agitation and the entire length of the shaft will be
agitated. However although I've been using fish tank heaters in a
plastic bucket, and they've survived the occasional 'total immersion',
in this tank they will be well under the surface. It occurs to me that
they might not stand up to this treatment - any opinions?

(I have a fall back plan to slip a suitable diameter plastic tube over
the cable and top 1" of the 'test tube' that they are built in, secured
with a plastic clip but I'd like to avoid it as the plastic tube will be
relatively inflexible and tend to knock over the vessel)

These are the heaters I'm using:


http://tinyurl.com/fish-tank-heater

They should be fine, I have had similar submerged for years.

However why not use an immersion heater and run it at reduced power.
They are about the correct length and more robust.

On Wed, 07 Sep 2016 16:58:43 +0100, "James Wilkinson"
wrote:

On Wed, 07 Sep 2016 15:38:53 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 9/7/2016 3:09 PM, Andrew Mawson wrote:

I am making a cylindrical nickel plating tank as I find that the bucket
I usually use often isn't deep enough - currently need to plate some 27"
shafts. So I've made up a 30" length of 160 mm underground drain with a
stop end at the lower end. Shape is ideal as I can drop a tank bubbler
in the bottom for agitation and the entire length of the shaft will be
agitated. However although I've been using fish tank heaters in a
plastic bucket, and they've survived the occasional 'total immersion',
in this tank they will be well under the surface. It occurs to me that
they might not stand up to this treatment - any opinions?

(I have a fall back plan to slip a suitable diameter plastic tube over
the cable and top 1" of the 'test tube' that they are built in, secured
with a plastic clip but I'd like to avoid it as the plastic tube will be
relatively inflexible and tend to knock over the vessel)

These are the heaters I'm using:


http://tinyurl.com/fish-tank-heater


Andrew


I'd expect them to be OK. Although the ad talks about not lying them on
the floor of an aquarium because of the pressure, I'd be surprised if
they couldn't take a couple of psi, which is all they will see even at
the bottom.

You will have RCD/RCBO protection presumably?

You only need that if there's fish in it.

Aquariums are amongst the things that are often recommended not to be
RCD protected


--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On Fri, 09 Sep 2016 00:15:39 +0100, Graham. wrote:

On Wed, 07 Sep 2016 16:58:43 +0100, "James Wilkinson"
wrote:

On Wed, 07 Sep 2016 15:38:53 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 9/7/2016 3:09 PM, Andrew Mawson wrote:

I am making a cylindrical nickel plating tank as I find that the bucket
I usually use often isn't deep enough - currently need to plate some 27"
shafts. So I've made up a 30" length of 160 mm underground drain with a
stop end at the lower end. Shape is ideal as I can drop a tank bubbler
in the bottom for agitation and the entire length of the shaft will be
agitated. However although I've been using fish tank heaters in a
plastic bucket, and they've survived the occasional 'total immersion',
in this tank they will be well under the surface. It occurs to me that
they might not stand up to this treatment - any opinions?

(I have a fall back plan to slip a suitable diameter plastic tube over
the cable and top 1" of the 'test tube' that they are built in, secured
with a plastic clip but I'd like to avoid it as the plastic tube will be
relatively inflexible and tend to knock over the vessel)

These are the heaters I'm using:


http://tinyurl.com/fish-tank-heater


Andrew


I'd expect them to be OK. Although the ad talks about not lying them on
the floor of an aquarium because of the pressure, I'd be surprised if
they couldn't take a couple of psi, which is all they will see even at
the bottom.

You will have RCD/RCBO protection presumably?

You only need that if there's fish in it.

Aquariums are amongst the things that are often recommended not to be
RCD protected

On what grounds?

--
CONGRESS.SYS corrupted... Re-boot Washington D.C. (Y/N)?

On Thu, 08 Sep 2016 21:32:07 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 9/7/2016 4:58 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Wed, 07 Sep 2016 15:38:53 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 9/7/2016 3:09 PM, Andrew Mawson wrote:

I am making a cylindrical nickel plating tank as I find that the bucket
I usually use often isn't deep enough - currently need to plate some 27"
shafts. So I've made up a 30" length of 160 mm underground drain with a
stop end at the lower end. Shape is ideal as I can drop a tank bubbler
in the bottom for agitation and the entire length of the shaft will be
agitated. However although I've been using fish tank heaters in a
plastic bucket, and they've survived the occasional 'total immersion',
in this tank they will be well under the surface. It occurs to me that
they might not stand up to this treatment - any opinions?

(I have a fall back plan to slip a suitable diameter plastic tube over
the cable and top 1" of the 'test tube' that they are built in, secured
with a plastic clip but I'd like to avoid it as the plastic tube will be
relatively inflexible and tend to knock over the vessel)

These are the heaters I'm using:


http://tinyurl.com/fish-tank-heater


Andrew


I'd expect them to be OK. Although the ad talks about not lying them on
the floor of an aquarium because of the pressure, I'd be surprised if
they couldn't take a couple of psi, which is all they will see even at
the bottom.

You will have RCD/RCBO protection presumably?

You only need that if there's fish in it.

Plating fluid has high conductivity (of course). You don't want to zap
yourself or the DC supply with mains.

I'll give you the DC supply, but being scared of mains is pathetic.

--
We always hold hands. If I let go, she shops.

"James Wilkinson" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 09 Sep 2016 00:15:39 +0100, Graham.
wrote:

On Wed, 07 Sep 2016 16:58:43 +0100, "James Wilkinson"
wrote:

On Wed, 07 Sep 2016 15:38:53 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 9/7/2016 3:09 PM, Andrew Mawson wrote:

I am making a cylindrical nickel plating tank as I find that the
bucket
I usually use often isn't deep enough - currently need to plate some
27"
shafts. So I've made up a 30" length of 160 mm underground drain with
a
stop end at the lower end. Shape is ideal as I can drop a tank bubbler
in the bottom for agitation and the entire length of the shaft will be
agitated. However although I've been using fish tank heaters in a
plastic bucket, and they've survived the occasional 'total immersion',
in this tank they will be well under the surface. It occurs to me that
they might not stand up to this treatment - any opinions?

(I have a fall back plan to slip a suitable diameter plastic tube over
the cable and top 1" of the 'test tube' that they are built in,
secured
with a plastic clip but I'd like to avoid it as the plastic tube will
be
relatively inflexible and tend to knock over the vessel)

These are the heaters I'm using:


http://tinyurl.com/fish-tank-heater


Andrew


I'd expect them to be OK. Although the ad talks about not lying them on
the floor of an aquarium because of the pressure, I'd be surprised if
they couldn't take a couple of psi, which is all they will see even at
the bottom.

You will have RCD/RCBO protection presumably?

You only need that if there's fish in it.

Aquariums are amongst the things that are often recommended not to be
RCD protected

On what grounds?

They are more likely to have leakage that isnt a problem but will trip an
RCD.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...

On 07/09/2016 15:09, Andrew Mawson wrote:

I am making a cylindrical nickel plating tank as I find that the bucket
I usually use often isn't deep enough - currently need to plate some 27"
shafts. So I've made up a 30" length of 160 mm underground drain with a
stop end at the lower end. Shape is ideal as I can drop a tank bubbler
in the bottom for agitation and the entire length of the shaft will be
agitated. However although I've been using fish tank heaters in a
plastic bucket, and they've survived the occasional 'total immersion',
in this tank they will be well under the surface. It occurs to me that
they might not stand up to this treatment - any opinions?

(I have a fall back plan to slip a suitable diameter plastic tube over
the cable and top 1" of the 'test tube' that they are built in, secured
with a plastic clip but I'd like to avoid it as the plastic tube will be
relatively inflexible and tend to knock over the vessel)

These are the heaters I'm using:


http://tinyurl.com/fish-tank-heater

They should be fine, I have had similar submerged for years.

However why not use an immersion heater and run it at reduced power.
They are about the correct length and more robust.

Because:

a/ they are metallic so would contaminate the plating

b/ too high power - these are 100's watts not kW

c/too bulky

....otherwise ideal, but thanks for the suggestion

Andrew

In article ,
"James Wilkinson" writes:
On Fri, 09 Sep 2016 00:15:39 +0100, Graham. wrote:

Aquariums are amongst the things that are often recommended not to be
RCD protected

On what grounds?

As a life support system, they shouldn't share an RCD with anything
else, but it's a good idea to have dedicated RCD protection.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 09/09/2016 08:35, Andrew Mawson wrote:
"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...

On 07/09/2016 15:09, Andrew Mawson wrote:

I am making a cylindrical nickel plating tank as I find that the bucket
I usually use often isn't deep enough - currently need to plate some 27"
shafts. So I've made up a 30" length of 160 mm underground drain with a
stop end at the lower end. Shape is ideal as I can drop a tank bubbler
in the bottom for agitation and the entire length of the shaft will be
agitated. However although I've been using fish tank heaters in a
plastic bucket, and they've survived the occasional 'total immersion',
in this tank they will be well under the surface. It occurs to me that
they might not stand up to this treatment - any opinions?

(I have a fall back plan to slip a suitable diameter plastic tube over
the cable and top 1" of the 'test tube' that they are built in, secured
with a plastic clip but I'd like to avoid it as the plastic tube will be
relatively inflexible and tend to knock over the vessel)

These are the heaters I'm using:


http://tinyurl.com/fish-tank-heater

They should be fine, I have had similar submerged for years.

However why not use an immersion heater and run it at reduced power.
They are about the correct length and more robust.

Because:

a/ they are metallic so would contaminate the plating

plate it first?


b/ too high power - these are 100's watts not kW

240V 3kW immersion on a 24V supply is about 30W if my mental arithmetic
is correct. Just use a dimmer (a big dimmer?) its a resistive load so it
doesn't need any fancy electronics.


c/too bulky

a tube about 10-12 mm dia and 27" long is too bulky?


...otherwise ideal, but thanks for the suggestion

OK.


Andrew

On Thursday, 8 September 2016 21:38:45 UTC+1, newshound wrote:

In the old days, the far east used to make cheap clones of quality
western stuff. These days, I suspect most of that sort of stuff, even
when sold with nice packaging in pet shops, comes out of the same far
eastern factories. They have recognised that they make more money from
good quality products.

no, they haven't. I buy Chinese products as part of my work.


NT

On Friday, 9 September 2016 13:56:37 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 09/09/2016 08:35, Andrew Mawson wrote:
"dennis@home" wrote in message

However why not use an immersion heater and run it at reduced power.
They are about the correct length and more robust.

Because:

a/ they are metallic so would contaminate the plating

plate it first?


b/ too high power - these are 100's watts not kW

240V 3kW immersion on a 24V supply is about 30W if my mental arithmetic
is correct. Just use a dimmer (a big dimmer?) its a resistive load so it
doesn't need any fancy electronics.

a lighting dimmer on minimum would give around 1.5kW on a 3kW element. Perhaps you'd recommend tossing in the potatoes first.

Feeding mains to a nonwaterproofed element in water is not a sane idea. If you do install it waterproofed, DHW elements routinely split open near end of life & pass mains through the water.

Oh... and some are copper alloy plated, which is lethal to fish. Other than those points a great idea! Dennis strikes again.


NT

On 09/09/2016 14:13, wrote:


a lighting dimmer on minimum would give around 1.5kW on a 3kW
element. Perhaps you'd recommend tossing in the potatoes first.

A modern dimmer should give a much lower limit than that or it won't
work with LEDS or CF lamps.
These are proportional to the current through rather than needing to be
hot to get any light.


Feeding mains to a nonwaterproofed element in water is not a sane
idea. If you do install it waterproofed, DHW elements routinely split
open near end of life & pass mains through the water.

You feed mains into an immersion heat all the time.
Don't forget the earth.

Oh... and some are copper alloy plated, which is lethal to fish.
Other than those points a great idea! Dennis strikes again.

What have fish got to do with it?
I wouldn't have recommended one if fish were involved.

On Fri, 09 Sep 2016 09:32:09 +0100, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
"James Wilkinson" writes:
On Fri, 09 Sep 2016 00:15:39 +0100, Graham. wrote:

Aquariums are amongst the things that are often recommended not to be
RCD protected

On what grounds?

As a life support system, they shouldn't share an RCD with anything
else, but it's a good idea to have dedicated RCD protection.

As an inconvenience, I never RCD protect anything.

--
Warning: Do not attempt to stop chainsaw with testicles.

On Friday, 9 September 2016 18:13:52 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 09/09/2016 14:13, tabbypurr wrote:


a lighting dimmer on minimum would give around 1.5kW on a 3kW
element. Perhaps you'd recommend tossing in the potatoes first.

A modern dimmer should give a much lower limit than that or it won't
work with LEDS or CF lamps.

some yes, some no

These are proportional to the current through rather than needing to be
hot to get any light.


Feeding mains to a nonwaterproofed element in water is not a sane
idea. If you do install it waterproofed, DHW elements routinely split
open near end of life & pass mains through the water.

You feed mains into an immersion heat all the time.
Don't forget the earth.

I'm not seeing the relevance or usefulness of those comments

Oh... and some are copper alloy plated, which is lethal to fish.
Other than those points a great idea! Dennis strikes again.

What have fish got to do with it?
I wouldn't have recommended one if fish were involved.

Okaaaay I wouldn't either.

On 09/09/2016 14:07, wrote:
On Thursday, 8 September 2016 21:38:45 UTC+1, newshound wrote:

In the old days, the far east used to make cheap clones of quality
western stuff. These days, I suspect most of that sort of stuff, even
when sold with nice packaging in pet shops, comes out of the same far
eastern factories. They have recognised that they make more money from
good quality products.

no, they haven't. I buy Chinese products as part of my work.

YMMV. So do we - some of their stuff is pretty good.

Andy

On Sunday, 11 September 2016 21:38:32 UTC+1, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 09/09/2016 14:07, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 8 September 2016 21:38:45 UTC+1, newshound wrote:

In the old days, the far east used to make cheap clones of quality
western stuff. These days, I suspect most of that sort of stuff, even
when sold with nice packaging in pet shops, comes out of the same far
eastern factories. They have recognised that they make more money from
good quality products.

no, they haven't. I buy Chinese products as part of my work.

YMMV. So do we - some of their stuff is pretty good.

Andy

Yup, and at the other end some is not acceptable.


NT

In article ,
wrote:
On Sunday, 11 September 2016 21:38:32 UTC+1, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 09/09/2016 14:07, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 8 September 2016 21:38:45 UTC+1, newshound wrote:

In the old days, the far east used to make cheap clones of quality
western stuff. These days, I suspect most of that sort of stuff,
even when sold with nice packaging in pet shops, comes out of the
same far eastern factories. They have recognised that they make
more money from good quality products.

no, they haven't. I buy Chinese products as part of my work.

YMMV. So do we - some of their stuff is pretty good.

Andy

Yup, and at the other end some is not acceptable.


You generally get what you pay for.

--
*Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Monday, 12 September 2016 00:24:27 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 11 September 2016 21:38:32 UTC+1, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 09/09/2016 14:07, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 8 September 2016 21:38:45 UTC+1, newshound wrote:

In the old days, the far east used to make cheap clones of quality
western stuff. These days, I suspect most of that sort of stuff,
even when sold with nice packaging in pet shops, comes out of the
same far eastern factories. They have recognised that they make
more money from good quality products.

no, they haven't. I buy Chinese products as part of my work.

YMMV. So do we - some of their stuff is pretty good.

Andy

Yup, and at the other end some is not acceptable.


You generally get what you pay for.

Heh, the world would be a lot simpler.


NT

In article ,
wrote:
On Monday, 12 September 2016 00:24:27 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 11 September 2016 21:38:32 UTC+1, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 09/09/2016 14:07, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 8 September 2016 21:38:45 UTC+1, newshound wrote:

In the old days, the far east used to make cheap clones of quality
western stuff. These days, I suspect most of that sort of stuff,
even when sold with nice packaging in pet shops, comes out of the
same far eastern factories. They have recognised that they make
more money from good quality products.

no, they haven't. I buy Chinese products as part of my work.

YMMV. So do we - some of their stuff is pretty good.

Andy

Yup, and at the other end some is not acceptable.


You generally get what you pay for.

Heh, the world would be a lot simpler.

I've bought quite a lot from the far east. Usually electronics and
components. And generally, been amazed by the value for money. But if
seeing something on sale at a price which seemed to good to be true -
compared to other such products from the same area - it usually is.
Most notable being rechargeable battery cells.

It's a balancing act. Guessing if the low price is due to selling direct
rather than via a retail chain which adds a mark up at each point. Or
really is just cheap rubbish. Because there are UK etc firms that sell the
same product at a vastly higher price.

--
*Gaffer tape - The Force, light and dark sides - holds the universe together*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 12/09/2016 12:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Monday, 12 September 2016 00:24:27 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 11 September 2016 21:38:32 UTC+1, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 09/09/2016 14:07, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 8 September 2016 21:38:45 UTC+1, newshound wrote:

In the old days, the far east used to make cheap clones of quality
western stuff. These days, I suspect most of that sort of stuff,
even when sold with nice packaging in pet shops, comes out of the
same far eastern factories. They have recognised that they make
more money from good quality products.

no, they haven't. I buy Chinese products as part of my work.

YMMV. So do we - some of their stuff is pretty good.

Andy

Yup, and at the other end some is not acceptable.


You generally get what you pay for.

Heh, the world would be a lot simpler.

I've bought quite a lot from the far east. Usually electronics and
components. And generally, been amazed by the value for money. But if
seeing something on sale at a price which seemed to good to be true -
compared to other such products from the same area - it usually is.
Most notable being rechargeable battery cells.

It's a balancing act. Guessing if the low price is due to selling direct
rather than via a retail chain which adds a mark up at each point. Or
really is just cheap rubbish. Because there are UK etc firms that sell the
same product at a vastly higher price.


A lot of the retail price is the brand.
It doesn't cost any more to make a pair of nike trainers than a pair of
george trainers but they sell for far more.

On 12/09/2016 13:47, dennis@home wrote:
On 12/09/2016 12:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Monday, 12 September 2016 00:24:27 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 11 September 2016 21:38:32 UTC+1, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 09/09/2016 14:07, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 8 September 2016 21:38:45 UTC+1, newshound wrote:

In the old days, the far east used to make cheap clones of quality
western stuff. These days, I suspect most of that sort of stuff,
even when sold with nice packaging in pet shops, comes out of the
same far eastern factories. They have recognised that they make
more money from good quality products.

no, they haven't. I buy Chinese products as part of my work.

YMMV. So do we - some of their stuff is pretty good.

Andy

Yup, and at the other end some is not acceptable.


You generally get what you pay for.

Heh, the world would be a lot simpler.

I've bought quite a lot from the far east. Usually electronics and
components. And generally, been amazed by the value for money. But if
seeing something on sale at a price which seemed to good to be true -
compared to other such products from the same area - it usually is.
Most notable being rechargeable battery cells.

It's a balancing act. Guessing if the low price is due to selling direct
rather than via a retail chain which adds a mark up at each point. Or
really is just cheap rubbish. Because there are UK etc firms that sell
the
same product at a vastly higher price.


A lot of the retail price is the brand.
It doesn't cost any more to make a pair of nike trainers than a pair of
george trainers but they sell for far more.

Then why do george go out of their way to sell trainers that don't last
as long as nike?

In article ,
Fredxxx wrote:
A lot of the retail price is the brand.
It doesn't cost any more to make a pair of nike trainers than a pair of
george trainers but they sell for far more.

Then why do george go out of their way to sell trainers that don't last
as long as nike?

Do they?

I'm not convinced any one brand is better than another as regards lasting.
But that isn't important anyway for those who buy trainers by brand.

I'm far too old to be worried about which brand I'm seen wearing. But do
still wear trainers for some things - far more comfortable for loafing
around than 'proper' shoes. Presently Lidl ones. At a fraction of the
cost of teenage brands. ;-) And seem very well made.

--
*Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 12/09/2016 14:19, Fredxxx wrote:
On 12/09/2016 13:47, dennis@home wrote:
On 12/09/2016 12:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Monday, 12 September 2016 00:24:27 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 11 September 2016 21:38:32 UTC+1, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 09/09/2016 14:07, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 8 September 2016 21:38:45 UTC+1, newshound wrote:

In the old days, the far east used to make cheap clones of quality
western stuff. These days, I suspect most of that sort of stuff,
even when sold with nice packaging in pet shops, comes out of the
same far eastern factories. They have recognised that they make
more money from good quality products.

no, they haven't. I buy Chinese products as part of my work.

YMMV. So do we - some of their stuff is pretty good.

Andy

Yup, and at the other end some is not acceptable.


You generally get what you pay for.

Heh, the world would be a lot simpler.

I've bought quite a lot from the far east. Usually electronics and
components. And generally, been amazed by the value for money. But if
seeing something on sale at a price which seemed to good to be true -
compared to other such products from the same area - it usually is.
Most notable being rechargeable battery cells.

It's a balancing act. Guessing if the low price is due to selling direct
rather than via a retail chain which adds a mark up at each point. Or
really is just cheap rubbish. Because there are UK etc firms that sell
the
same product at a vastly higher price.


A lot of the retail price is the brand.
It doesn't cost any more to make a pair of nike trainers than a pair of
george trainers but they sell for far more.

Then why do george go out of their way to sell trainers that don't last
as long as nike?

People don't look after them like the expensive nikes.