Yo,

I was trying to help a mate with a shower door problem earlier. It's
one of those walk in showers with a glass 'wall', hinged glass door
and another bit of glass 'wall'.

The problem is that the hinge recesses cut in the glass to take the
hinges may be too 'sloppy' and because the 'grip' between the hinge
and the glass isn't rigid, the hinges can swivel, allowing the door to
drop (with it binding on the floor) and also open the gap at the top.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...Shower%201.jpg

This is the hinge sat in the door and wall panel with the clamp plates
removed:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...Shower%202.jpg

It's not too easy to see but you have the square 'U' shaped notches in
the glass and wall and then some plastic spacer things and thin, clear
plastic (PVC) 'gaskets' that go between the body of the hinge and the
glass on one side and the clamp and the glass on the other.

I removed the gaskets and cleaned them and the glass and they seemed
to 'stick' to the glass in the same way phone protector films do but
I'm not sure the 'grip' is what is supposed to be holding everything
in place?

I can't see any makers mark so can't ask them but this process /
design seems to be very similar:

http://rexshowerdoors.com/DIYCenter/blog/2011/07/how-to-install-your-frameless-shower-door/

And it could actually be these:

https://www.divapor.com/spares/showers/glass-door-hinges/180-degree-glass-to-glass-shower-door-hinge-chrome-plated-solid-copper-square-edges.php

http://preview.tinyurl.com/jdod8br

Looking at the 3rd diagram it does look like the hinges are supposed
to fit in the holes snugly (they certainly don't atm).

I was wondering if I could use some of that two part putty resin to
make good the fit between the glass and the hinge, suitably protecting
the hinge from the resin before applying? I could do the 'wall' side
first and then once hard, mate the hinges into the door the same way?

IOO I think the door is at least 700mm wide x 20000mm high x by either
10 or 12m thick (I can get him to let me know the precise
measurements). An online calculator I found suggests that toughened
glass (?) of those dimensions would be 35kg (10mm) or 42kg (12mm), so
if those dimensions are correct we should still be just ok weight wise
(45kg / hinge pair). Just need to ensure the door is no wider than
700mm (according to the loading spec).


Cheers, T i m

T i m wrote:
Yo,

I was trying to help a mate with a shower door problem earlier. It's
one of those walk in showers with a glass 'wall', hinged glass door
and another bit of glass 'wall'.

The problem is that the hinge recesses cut in the glass to take the
hinges may be too 'sloppy' and because the 'grip' between the hinge
and the glass isn't rigid, the hinges can swivel, allowing the door to
drop (with it binding on the floor) and also open the gap at the top.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...Shower%201.jpg

This is the hinge sat in the door and wall panel with the clamp plates
removed:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...Shower%202.jpg

It's not too easy to see but you have the square 'U' shaped notches in
the glass and wall and then some plastic spacer things and thin, clear
plastic (PVC) 'gaskets' that go between the body of the hinge and the
glass on one side and the clamp and the glass on the other.

I removed the gaskets and cleaned them and the glass and they seemed
to 'stick' to the glass in the same way phone protector films do but
I'm not sure the 'grip' is what is supposed to be holding everything
in place?

I can't see any makers mark so can't ask them but this process /
design seems to be very similar:

http://rexshowerdoors.com/DIYCenter/blog/2011/07/how-to-install-your-frameless-shower-door/

And it could actually be these:

https://www.divapor.com/spares/showers/glass-door-hinges/180-degree-glass-to-glass-shower-door-hinge-chrome-plated-solid-copper-square-edges.php

http://preview.tinyurl.com/jdod8br

Looking at the 3rd diagram it does look like the hinges are supposed
to fit in the holes snugly (they certainly don't atm).

I was wondering if I could use some of that two part putty resin to
make good the fit between the glass and the hinge, suitably protecting
the hinge from the resin before applying? I could do the 'wall' side
first and then once hard, mate the hinges into the door the same way?

IOO I think the door is at least 700mm wide x 20000mm high x by either
10 or 12m thick (I can get him to let me know the precise
measurements). An online calculator I found suggests that toughened
glass (?) of those dimensions would be 35kg (10mm) or 42kg (12mm), so
if those dimensions are correct we should still be just ok weight wise
(45kg / hinge pair). Just need to ensure the door is no wider than
700mm (according to the loading spec).


Cheers, T i m


Having looked at it, the fixing screws seem to be designed to have
plastic sleeving where they pass through the glass? Has the sleeving
been damaged? I'd try sleeving the screws with some nylon tubing/bushes
if I couldn't replace the entire gasket as shown in picture 2. I'd be
very wary of epoxy as it IME can't be hard and tough at the same time,
nylon can.

On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 23:44:32 +0100, Capitol wrote:

snip

Having looked at it, the fixing screws seem to be designed to have
plastic sleeving where they pass through the glass?

They don't appear to. Someone else had looked at it previously,
described the screws holes as actual holes (rather that
part-circular-cutouts) and I envisaged turning or 3D printing inserts
that might allow a more 'mechanical' location. However, they turn out
to 'not' be holes. ;-(

Has the sleeving
been damaged? I'd try sleeving the screws with some nylon tubing/bushes
if I couldn't replace the entire gasket as shown in picture 2.

See above

I'd be
very wary of epoxy as it IME can't be hard and tough at the same time,
nylon can.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure I could get / put anything in there that
wasn't (initially) amorphous. ;-(

OOI, I think something like JB Weld would be hard and tough enough as
it is often used to replace 'metal' (and they are generally accepted
as two of metals properties).

I think my first step is getting confirmation of how the hinges are
*supposed* to hold in place and then I know what I need to try to
resolve.

There are a few videos on Youtube that cover the installation of these
'frameless' hinges but none I have found so far are the symmetrical,
glass to glass type. If they are wall to glass the advice seems to
suggest setting the hinge in the glass so the glass is already sitting
on the hinge so that the glass won't drop over time (suggesting that
is an issue), and the hinge can't 'rotate' (in it's mounting hole)
when one side is bolted firmly to a rigid surface?

Cheers, T i m

On Wednesday, 29 June 2016 11:04:59 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 23:44:32 +0100, Capitol wrote:

snip

Having looked at it, the fixing screws seem to be designed to have
plastic sleeving where they pass through the glass?

They don't appear to. Someone else had looked at it previously,
described the screws holes as actual holes (rather that
part-circular-cutouts) and I envisaged turning or 3D printing inserts
that might allow a more 'mechanical' location. However, they turn out
to 'not' be holes. ;-(

Has the sleeving
been damaged? I'd try sleeving the screws with some nylon tubing/bushes
if I couldn't replace the entire gasket as shown in picture 2.

See above

I'd be
very wary of epoxy as it IME can't be hard and tough at the same time,
nylon can.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure I could get / put anything in there that
wasn't (initially) amorphous. ;-(

OOI, I think something like JB Weld would be hard and tough enough as
it is often used to replace 'metal' (and they are generally accepted
as two of metals properties).

I think my first step is getting confirmation of how the hinges are
*supposed* to hold in place and then I know what I need to try to
resolve.

There are a few videos on Youtube that cover the installation of these
'frameless' hinges but none I have found so far are the symmetrical,
glass to glass type. If they are wall to glass the advice seems to
suggest setting the hinge in the glass so the glass is already sitting
on the hinge so that the glass won't drop over time (suggesting that
is an issue), and the hinge can't 'rotate' (in it's mounting hole)
when one side is bolted firmly to a rigid surface?

Cheers, T i m

I'd just take up the gap with some gapfill that isn't so hard as to stress the glass if there's any thermal contraction. Nylon, epoxy, whatever. I'd prop the glass into its desired position, applying one side of the hinge/clamp, clamping it in place with a clamp, and fill to nearly flat. When set, fit the other side of the hinge's clamp.


NT

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 03:57:00 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

snip

I'd just take up the gap with some gapfill that isn't so hard as to stress the glass if there's any thermal contraction.

Ah, good point. The hinges are brass FWIW (which I think also has
quite a high coefficient of expansion)?

Nylon, epoxy, whatever.

So strips of material or a liquid 'epoxy' you mean (whatever works
best)?

I'd prop the glass into its desired position, applying one side of the hinge/clamp, clamping it in place with a clamp,

I'm not sure I have a clamp deep enough and wouldn't be able to get
under the bottom (no gap) so it would have to be hand / tape /
whatever.

and fill to nearly flat. When set, fit the other side of the hinge's clamp.

The problem with that (and without the clamping force on the single
side) is if using a liquid 'filler', getting it to stay there whilst
getting it all back together. I don't think you could leave the hinge
open with a filler that could take up the entire width of the void as
when you tightened the 'clamp' it might be blocked from compressing
the gasket etc (So it might be best to do it 'green').

If I was going to fill the void with plastic shims of some sort then
at least I could do the whole lot dry and adjust etc?

If I could lay the whole lot flat it would make it very much easier.
;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Wednesday, 29 June 2016 12:17:39 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 03:57:00 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:

snip

I'd just take up the gap with some gapfill that isn't so hard as to stress the glass if there's any thermal contraction.

Ah, good point. The hinges are brass FWIW (which I think also has
quite a high coefficient of expansion)?

Nylon, epoxy, whatever.

So strips of material or a liquid 'epoxy' you mean (whatever works
best)?

I can't see you getting good fill with strips

I'd prop the glass into its desired position, applying one side of the hinge/clamp, clamping it in place with a clamp,

I'm not sure I have a clamp deep enough

make one

and wouldn't be able to get
under the bottom (no gap) so it would have to be hand / tape /
whatever.

not workable

and fill to nearly flat. When set, fit the other side of the hinge's clamp.

The problem with that (and without the clamping force on the single
side) is if using a liquid 'filler', getting it to stay there whilst
getting it all back together.

Some pastes can stay in place. Someone here may know what to add to epoxy.

I don't think you could leave the hinge
open with a filler that could take up the entire width of the void as
when you tightened the 'clamp' it might be blocked from compressing
the gasket etc (So it might be best to do it 'green').

Maybe fill the gap then complete the clamping assembly

If I was going to fill the void with plastic shims of some sort then
at least I could do the whole lot dry and adjust etc?

I can't see that working

If I could lay the whole lot flat it would make it very much easier.
;-)

Alignment is important, so you're stuck with doing it in situ.


NT

wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 June 2016 12:17:39 UTC+1, T i m wrote:

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 03:57:00 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:

snip


I'd just take up the gap with some gapfill that isn't so hard as to stress the glass if there's any thermal contraction.

Ah, good point. The hinges are brass FWIW (which I think also has
quite a high coefficient of expansion)?


Nylon, epoxy, whatever.

So strips of material or a liquid 'epoxy' you mean (whatever works
best)?

I can't see you getting good fill with strips


I'd prop the glass into its desired position, applying one side of the hinge/clamp, clamping it in place with a clamp,

I'm not sure I have a clamp deep enough

make one


and wouldn't be able to get
under the bottom (no gap) so it would have to be hand / tape /
whatever.

not workable


and fill to nearly flat. When set, fit the other side of the hinge's clamp.

The problem with that (and without the clamping force on the single
side) is if using a liquid 'filler', getting it to stay there whilst
getting it all back together.

Some pastes can stay in place. Someone here may know what to add to epoxy.


I don't think you could leave the hinge
open with a filler that could take up the entire width of the void as
when you tightened the 'clamp' it might be blocked from compressing
the gasket etc (So it might be best to do it 'green').

Maybe fill the gap then complete the clamping assembly


If I was going to fill the void with plastic shims of some sort then
at least I could do the whole lot dry and adjust etc?

I can't see that working


If I could lay the whole lot flat it would make it very much easier.
;-)

Alignment is important, so you're stuck with doing it in situ.


NT


Milliput might work, available from Hobbycraft.

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 08:28:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, 29 June 2016 12:17:39 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 03:57:00 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:

snip

I'd just take up the gap with some gapfill that isn't so hard as to stress the glass if there's any thermal contraction.

Ah, good point. The hinges are brass FWIW (which I think also has
quite a high coefficient of expansion)?

Nylon, epoxy, whatever.

So strips of material or a liquid 'epoxy' you mean (whatever works
best)?

I can't see you getting good fill with strips

No, I wasn't convinced either.

I'd prop the glass into its desired position, applying one side of the hinge/clamp, clamping it in place with a clamp,

I'm not sure I have a clamp deep enough

make one

If I did it wouldn't resolve the one I couldn't get at and I'd need
one for each 'side' of the hinge.

and wouldn't be able to get
under the bottom (no gap) so it would have to be hand / tape /
whatever.

not workable

Well, I taped the top of the door in place when I had the top hinge
out and it held it solid?

and fill to nearly flat. When set, fit the other side of the hinge's clamp.

The problem with that (and without the clamping force on the single
side) is if using a liquid 'filler', getting it to stay there whilst
getting it all back together.

Some pastes can stay in place.

Yes, the two part 'putty' types might stay ok but might end up too
hard (as you mentioned elsewhere).

Someone here may know what to add to epoxy.

Ok.

I don't think you could leave the hinge
open with a filler that could take up the entire width of the void as
when you tightened the 'clamp' it might be blocked from compressing
the gasket etc (So it might be best to do it 'green').

Maybe fill the gap then complete the clamping assembly

That was one option. Or actually 'bond' the hinge on the wall side of
the pair so that if he replaces the 'glass shower wall' with a stud /
Aquapanel wall he can still re-use the door.

If I was going to fill the void with plastic shims of some sort then
at least I could do the whole lot dry and adjust etc?

I can't see that working

Basically I could do that on both the door and wall side of the hinge
and even 'bias' the hinge upward so that it sits flat again one the
load (of the door) goes on the hinges.

If I could lay the whole lot flat it would make it very much easier.
;-)

Alignment is important, so you're stuck with doing it in situ.

Quite. ;-(

What about a silicone based adhesive, maybe with the gaskets
perforated with a hole punch (to allow a better bond between hinge and
glass and clamp and glass), just on the 'wall' side of the hinges. Is
there a particularly 'strong' silicone do you know? Apply the hinges,
leave to cure for 48 hours or so and then re-hang the door using new
gaskets and possibly shims at the top (to stop the door sinking over
time onto the hinge)? I don't think there would be so much time of the
hinges 'twisting' if they were held solid on one side (like the wall
mounted versions).

Cheers, T i m

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 17:11:59 +0100, Capitol wrote:

snip

Milliput might work, available from Hobbycraft.

Yes, it was that sort of thing I was thinking of (a 2 part epoxy
putty) and I've used some to good effect fixing a chipped shower base.

I think the hinge mech has a plastic surround that may be there to
stop a metal to glass contact so if it was Milliput on the glass it
shouldn't make much difference.

I need to (accurately) measure the hole in glass and compare it with
the dimensions on the diagram.

Cheers, T i m

On Wednesday, 29 June 2016 17:57:34 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 08:28:45 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 June 2016 12:17:39 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 03:57:00 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:

I'd prop the glass into its desired position, applying one side of the hinge/clamp, clamping it in place with a clamp,

I'm not sure I have a clamp deep enough

make one

If I did it wouldn't resolve the one I couldn't get at and I'd need
one for each 'side' of the hinge.

I don't think so, but it's all getting too ambiguous


Alignment is important, so you're stuck with doing it in situ.

Quite. ;-(

What about a silicone based adhesive, maybe with the gaskets

I assume it wouldn't be tough enough. If you do try it, aquarium silicone's tough.


NT

On Thursday, 30 June 2016 01:12:04 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 17:11:59 +0100, Capitol wrote:

snip

Milliput might work, available from Hobbycraft.

Yes, it was that sort of thing I was thinking of (a 2 part epoxy
putty) and I've used some to good effect fixing a chipped shower base.

Poundland have epoxy putty fwiw


NT

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 22:49:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, 30 June 2016 01:12:04 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 17:11:59 +0100, Capitol wrote:

snip

Milliput might work, available from Hobbycraft.

Yes, it was that sort of thing I was thinking of (a 2 part epoxy
putty) and I've used some to good effect fixing a chipped shower base.

Poundland have epoxy putty fwiw

OK, I'll check that out, ta.

Even if it isn't the best in the world ir could still be ok for that
role.

Cheers, T i m

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 22:48:53 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, 29 June 2016 17:57:34 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 08:28:45 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 June 2016 12:17:39 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 03:57:00 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:

I'd prop the glass into its desired position, applying one side of the hinge/clamp, clamping it in place with a clamp,

I'm not sure I have a clamp deep enough

make one

If I did it wouldn't resolve the one I couldn't get at and I'd need
one for each 'side' of the hinge.

I don't think so, but it's all getting too ambiguous

'Warm and fuzzy' / open-minded thinking that's all. Trying to consider
all the options whilst grading them in a likelihood of success. ;-)


Alignment is important, so you're stuck with doing it in situ.

Quite. ;-(

What about a silicone based adhesive, maybe with the gaskets

I assume it wouldn't be tough enough.

It just needs to maintain a non-slip bond between the hinge and the
glass,

If you do try it, aquarium silicone's tough.

Ah yes, that's a good thought, thanks.

Cheers, T i m

On Thursday, 30 June 2016 10:20:45 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 22:48:53 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 June 2016 17:57:34 UTC+1, T i m wrote:

What about a silicone based adhesive, maybe with the gaskets

I assume it wouldn't be tough enough.

It just needs to maintain a non-slip bond between the hinge and the
glass,

like I said. It's your bathroom though.


NT

On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 17:01:06 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, 30 June 2016 10:20:45 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 22:48:53 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 June 2016 17:57:34 UTC+1, T i m wrote:

What about a silicone based adhesive, maybe with the gaskets

I assume it wouldn't be tough enough.

It just needs to maintain a non-slip bond between the hinge and the
glass,

like I said.

I know.

It's your bathroom though.

It isn't though (but I get the point).

I've since managed to find someone who actually specifies the
construction of such things (glass walls and doors, typically on
shower enclosures) and he was stating it may be that this install was
on the border of using 3 hinges. Too late now the glass is toughened
of course but he would like some pictures and dimension of the job and
will advise from those.

Cheers, T i m