Looking for a router with two seperate ethernet WAN ports and three
or four LAN ports (can be a built in switch).

Not interested in bonding the two WAN ports (probaby not
possible anyway) but must be able to route traffic for say
YouTube/NetFlix/iPlayer etc via one of the WANs and VOIP via the
other. Normal traffic can go down either.

Be nice if it was IPv6 capable and still able to do the routing of
streaming correctly.

But it'll be using IPv4 so port forwarding with configurable source
and destination IPs and ports is required. A DMZ that will only go to
one IP isn't good enough.

Doesn't need WiFi.

Abilty to use 3G as a *both* ethernet WAN failover could be useful.

A very quick dig about has found:

TP-Link TL-R480T+ - no IPv6 and a bit basic but only £70.
Draytec V2925-K - knows about IPv6, has 3G, nasty curvy top surface.

Budget: I was hoping to be less than £100 but the TP-Link is about
the only one down there. A ceiling of £200 is just about do able.

Thanks.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 26/05/16 12:03, Dave Liquorice wrote:
Looking for a router with two seperate ethernet WAN ports and three
or four LAN ports (can be a built in switch).

For that Id get something like a crap old PC and whack in one of these
and another ethernet card and stuff in a basic linux - debian or summat.



http://www.itinstock.com/intel-expi9...rd-22076-p.asp

--
You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
kind word alone.

Al Capone

On 26/05/2016 12:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/05/16 12:03, Dave Liquorice wrote:
Looking for a router with two seperate ethernet WAN ports and three
or four LAN ports (can be a built in switch).

For that Id get something like a crap old PC

Just bear in mind that some crap old PCs will use 100-200w, and this
will be left on 24/7 presumably. A new HP Microserver uses around 30w,
and costs £115.

The difference in electricity costs could easily be around £100 a year.

On 26/05/16 12:26, GB wrote:
On 26/05/2016 12:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/05/16 12:03, Dave Liquorice wrote:
Looking for a router with two seperate ethernet WAN ports and three
or four LAN ports (can be a built in switch).

For that Id get something like a crap old PC

Just bear in mind that some crap old PCs will use 100-200w, and this
will be left on 24/7 presumably. A new HP Microserver uses around 30w,
and costs £115.

The difference in electricity costs could easily be around £100 a year.


well get an Atom board then ;-)

Actually with a small SSD and no graphics running a small PC is around
40-50W tops.

And you could turn it into a media server and NAS as well!



--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"

On Thu, 26 May 2016 11:30:21 +0000, Jethro_uk wrote:

Looking for a router with two seperate ethernet WAN ports and three or
four LAN ports (can be a built in switch).

For that Id get something like a crap old PC and whack in one of these
and another ethernet card and stuff in a basic linux - debian or
summat.

http://www.itinstock.com/intel-expi9...i-e-quad-port-
gigabit-server-adapter-card-22076-p.asp

As long as you are capable of using IPTABLES. Unless there is a decent
config utility.

Agreed - probably.

What is it that's actually desired?

The ability to route between the two WANs simultaneously? Or are they
both internet connections, and you want to load-balance, or use one as a
failover?

If it's a failover, it's probably easier to look at some of Draytek's
routers.

On 26/05/16 12:30, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Thu, 26 May 2016 12:09:43 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 26/05/16 12:03, Dave Liquorice wrote:
Looking for a router with two seperate ethernet WAN ports and three or
four LAN ports (can be a built in switch).

For that Id get something like a crap old PC and whack in one of these
and another ethernet card and stuff in a basic linux - debian or summat.



http://www.itinstock.com/intel-expi9...i-e-quad-port-
gigabit-server-adapter-card-22076-p.asp

As long as you are capable of using IPTABLES. Unless there is a decent
config utility.

Write yer own ;-)

Actually I think that there is a web based linux management utility that
does that

http://www.webmin.com/standard.html

Its actually remarkably good - or was last time I used it.

Its more routing though than firewalling.


http://unix.stackexchange.com/questi...stination-port

Not trivial to set up, but once set as with most things linux,. its fit
and forget


--
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

Jonathan Swift.

On 26/05/16 12:45, Adrian wrote:
On Thu, 26 May 2016 11:30:21 +0000, Jethro_uk wrote:

Looking for a router with two seperate ethernet WAN ports and three or
four LAN ports (can be a built in switch).

For that Id get something like a crap old PC and whack in one of these
and another ethernet card and stuff in a basic linux - debian or
summat.

http://www.itinstock.com/intel-expi9...i-e-quad-port-
gigabit-server-adapter-card-22076-p.asp

As long as you are capable of using IPTABLES. Unless there is a decent
config utility.

Agreed - probably.

What is it that's actually desired?

The ability to route between the two WANs simultaneously? Or are they
both internet connections, and you want to load-balance, or use one as a
failover?


AIUI its a question of 'general web thisaway' and 'voip and hi priority
traffic, thataway

If it's a failover, it's probably easier to look at some of Draytek's
routers.

I don't think it is.


--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"

On 26/05/2016 12:03, Dave Liquorice wrote:
Looking for a router with two seperate ethernet WAN ports and three
or four LAN ports (can be a built in switch).

Not interested in bonding the two WAN ports (probaby not
possible anyway) but must be able to route traffic for say
YouTube/NetFlix/iPlayer etc via one of the WANs and VOIP via the
other. Normal traffic can go down either.

Be nice if it was IPv6 capable and still able to do the routing of
streaming correctly.

But it'll be using IPv4 so port forwarding with configurable source
and destination IPs and ports is required. A DMZ that will only go to
one IP isn't good enough.

Doesn't need WiFi.

Abilty to use 3G as a *both* ethernet WAN failover could be useful.


The Draytek 2925 is a spot on match for the spec. If you stick it in its
19" rack mount bracket then the curvy top becomes less of an issue.

I normally do those for £175 inc VAT. The bracket is rather pricey for
what it is at £35, but it makes it much easier to stick in a rack neatly
without needing to add a shelf.

I have not tried the TP-Link, but I have used lots of their switches
and some of their WiFi APs etc, and they seem reliable and well thought
out. I can do those for £66 inc VAT. I don't think that model can do
3/4G directly, although you can configure it to balance up to 4 wan
connections, so you could add an external 3G AP with an ethernet
presentation such as the TP-LINK (TL-MR3020) 150Mbps Travel-size
Wireless 3G/4G Router. That has USB and ethernet presentation. I can do
you those for £27.


If you want high end, then the new:

http://www.draytek.co.uk/products/business/vigor-2952

also seems to match the technical spec spot on (and then some)...

However the cheapest I can do those is £299 ex VAT, so you probably
won't like the price!




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 26/05/16 14:14, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Thu, 26 May 2016 12:51:46 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 26/05/16 12:30, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Thu, 26 May 2016 12:09:43 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 26/05/16 12:03, Dave Liquorice wrote:
Looking for a router with two seperate ethernet WAN ports and three
or four LAN ports (can be a built in switch).

For that Id get something like a crap old PC and whack in one of these
and another ethernet card and stuff in a basic linux - debian or
summat.



http://www.itinstock.com/intel-expi9...pt-pci-e-quad-
port-
gigabit-server-adapter-card-22076-p.asp

As long as you are capable of using IPTABLES. Unless there is a decent
config utility.

Write yer own ;-)

Actually I think that there is a web based linux management utility that
does that

http://www.webmin.com/standard.html

Its actually remarkably good - or was last time I used it.

I am a *massive* webmin fan - been using it since 200?

It's probably the single biggest factor in my sticking with Linux after
the (in) famous Jethro Mouse incident.


Its more routing though than firewalling.


That said, the one thing I haven't used Webmin for is IPTABLES


http://unix.stackexchange.com/questi...ut-traffic-on-
different-interfaces-based-on-destination-port

Not trivial to set up, but once set as with most things linux,. its fit
and forget

Which is part of the problem. Why spend hours learning something to only
be used once ?

Oh, like breast feeding you mean?


--
"The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll
look exactly the same afterwards."

Billy Connolly

On Thu, 26 May 2016 12:52:54 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

What is it that's actually desired?

The ability to route between the two WANs simultaneously? Or are
they both internet connections, and you want to load-balance, or
use
one as a failover?

AIUI its a question of 'general web thisaway' and 'voip and hi priority
traffic, thataway

Background: Two links one paid for, about 5 Mbps ADSL, static IP and
a "raw" internet connection but capped at 100 GB download/month.
Another cost free, uncapped but dubious reliabilty and inside a
private net
walled garden so no incoming connections, unknown speed but hopefully
greater than 2 Mbps...

The idea is to shove high data consumption stuff (streaming video(*))
onto the free uncapped link, VOIP over the ADSL so incoming stuff
works. Other traffic can either be load balanced but it could all go
down the ADSL and not be a problem with the cap.

If it's a failover, it's probably easier to look at some of
Draytek's routers.

I don't think it is.

Ideally the uncapped and ADSL mutually failover, if both go it would
be nice to failover to 3G, all automatically. Though I would proably
keep the 3G unpowered so it doesn't get used silently.

(*) No.1 Daughter has got used to free, uncapped, internet access
after
two years at college doing A Levels. If she wants to watch the all
the episodes of from 15 series of whatever, she just kicks off a
torrent. She was home for two days the other week and got through 20
GB in 12 hours,0 but she just switched the torrent off when I asked
her to, no arguement at all. There was a time when such a request
wouuld have lead to getting an earful of abuse starting from denying
her Human Rights and working up!

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 26/05/16 20:10, Dave Liquorice wrote:
She was home for two days the other week and got through 20
GB in 12 hours,0 but she just switched the torrent off when I asked
her to, no arguement at all. There was a time when such a request
wouuld have lead to getting an earful of abuse starting from denying
her Human Rights and working up!

niece in law on leaving home 'I never realised how expensive living is'


--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

On 26/05/16 20:43, Chris French wrote:
The Natural Philosopher Wrote in message:
On 26/05/16 12:26, GB wrote:
On 26/05/2016 12:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/05/16 12:03, Dave Liquorice wrote:
Looking for a router with two seperate ethernet WAN ports and three
or four LAN ports (can be a built in switch).

For that Id get something like a crap old PC

Just bear in mind that some crap old PCs will use 100-200w, and this
will be left on 24/7 presumably. A new HP Microserver uses around 30w,
and costs £115.

The difference in electricity costs could easily be around £100 a year.


well get an Atom board then ;-)

Actually with a small SSD and no graphics running a small PC is around
40-50W tops.

Depends on your old and crap definition.

Our old Pentium 4 used about 100w doing nothing iirc


and you know this how?


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

The Natural Philosopher Wrote in message:
On 26/05/16 12:26, GB wrote:
On 26/05/2016 12:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/05/16 12:03, Dave Liquorice wrote:
Looking for a router with two seperate ethernet WAN ports and three
or four LAN ports (can be a built in switch).

For that Id get something like a crap old PC

Just bear in mind that some crap old PCs will use 100-200w, and this
will be left on 24/7 presumably. A new HP Microserver uses around 30w,
and costs £115.

The difference in electricity costs could easily be around £100 a year.


well get an Atom board then ;-)

Actually with a small SSD and no graphics running a small PC is around
40-50W tops.

Depends on your old and crap definition.

Our old Pentium 4 used about 100w doing nothing iirc


--
--
Chris French

On Thu, 26 May 2016 21:05:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 26/05/16 20:43, Chris French wrote:
The Natural Philosopher Wrote in message:
On 26/05/16 12:26, GB wrote:
On 26/05/2016 12:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/05/16 12:03, Dave Liquorice wrote:
Looking for a router with two seperate ethernet WAN ports and three
or four LAN ports (can be a built in switch).

For that Id get something like a crap old PC

Just bear in mind that some crap old PCs will use 100-200w, and this
will be left on 24/7 presumably. A new HP Microserver uses around 30w,
and costs £115.

The difference in electricity costs could easily be around £100 a year.


well get an Atom board then ;-)

Actually with a small SSD and no graphics running a small PC is around
40-50W tops.

Depends on your old and crap definition.

Our old Pentium 4 used about 100w doing nothing iirc


and you know this how?

In my case it was by plugging the PC into a Power monitoring socket
and reading it off the display (over several such machines).

Cheers, T i m

On Thu, 26 May 2016 17:37:49 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

The Draytek 2925 is a spot on match for the spec. If you stick it in its
19" rack mount bracket then the curvy top becomes less of an issue.

I normally do those for £175 inc VAT.

Delivered? Below Broadband Buyer if so (ICBA to work out what they
want for delivery, there doesn't appear to be a "Free Delivery for
purchases over £x").

The bracket is rather pricey for what it is at £35,

Looks, no more than a bit of bent metal. I think even my limited
metal bashing skills could fabricate something from 3/16" 2 U strip.
Or just a bit of 50 mm angle.

Just spotted that the 2925 has an external PSU and WAN3 is USB. B-(

I have not tried the TP-Link, but I have used lots of their switches
and some of their WiFi APs etc, and they seem reliable and well thought
out.

Yep, Ive a £20 TP-Link router wireless AP. The web interface is good,
lots of features, it works, I only use it as an AP though.

I don't think that model can do 3/4G directly, although you can
configure it to balance up to 4 wan connections, so you could add an
external 3G AP with an ethernet presentation such as the TP-LINK
(TL-MR3020) 150Mbps Travel-size Wireless 3G/4G Router.

Having the 3G bit on ethernet would be a Good Thing. I'm not sure
which side fo the house has best 3G, USB cable length limitations
could be a problem. I've looked at the TL-MR2030 before and that has
been on the list of things to buy for along time, along with a dongle
and SIM to provide backup to the ADSL. Also the TL-R480T+ has an
internal PSU.

Fallen across the TL-R470T+, £30 quid... That's tripped my "there
must be a catch" alarm in double quick time! Looks very much like the
480T+ except the connections are on the back not the front.

Wanders off to find manuals to read, so I know what they *can* do,
not just what marketing think I want know.

Ah, less grunt (TL-R480T+ / TL-R470T+) Flash8 / 4 MB) DRAM64 / 64
MB) Concurent sessions30,000 / 10,000) and lack of One to One NAT,
Multinets NAT and APP Control. This is a domestic set up, mail, web,
some (not serious) online gaming from The Lad. I can't see the lack
of grunt or those features being an issue.

http://www.draytek.co.uk/products/business/vigor-2952

also seems to match the technical spec spot on (and then some)...

However the cheapest I can do those is £299 ex VAT, so you probably
won't like the price!

229 ex! Correct I don't like the price. B-)

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 26 May 2016 21:05:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 26/05/16 20:43, Chris French wrote:
The Natural Philosopher Wrote in message:
On 26/05/16 12:26, GB wrote:
On 26/05/2016 12:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/05/16 12:03, Dave Liquorice wrote:
Looking for a router with two seperate ethernet WAN ports and three
or four LAN ports (can be a built in switch).

For that Id get something like a crap old PC

Just bear in mind that some crap old PCs will use 100-200w, and this
will be left on 24/7 presumably. A new HP Microserver uses around
30w, and costs £115.

The difference in electricity costs could easily be around £100 a
year.


well get an Atom board then ;-)

Actually with a small SSD and no graphics running a small PC is
around 40-50W tops.

Depends on your old and crap definition.

Our old Pentium 4 used about 100w doing nothing iirc


and you know this how?

Mine used about 120W. And I know this because I measured it. Flat out,
about 160W.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 26/05/16 21:57, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 26 May 2016 21:05:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 26/05/16 20:43, Chris French wrote:
The Natural Philosopher Wrote in message:
On 26/05/16 12:26, GB wrote:
On 26/05/2016 12:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/05/16 12:03, Dave Liquorice wrote:
Looking for a router with two seperate ethernet WAN ports and three
or four LAN ports (can be a built in switch).

For that Id get something like a crap old PC

Just bear in mind that some crap old PCs will use 100-200w, and this
will be left on 24/7 presumably. A new HP Microserver uses around
30w, and costs £115.

The difference in electricity costs could easily be around £100 a
year.


well get an Atom board then ;-)

Actually with a small SSD and no graphics running a small PC is
around 40-50W tops.

Depends on your old and crap definition.

Our old Pentium 4 used about 100w doing nothing iirc


and you know this how?

Mine used about 120W. And I know this because I measured it. Flat out,
about 160W.

Hard to find an accurate meter for SMPSU but yes, I checked and that
chip was the hottest Intel ever made.


--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

On Thu, 26 May 2016 12:31:45 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Just bear in mind that some crap old PCs will use 100-200w, and
this
will be left on 24/7 presumably. A new HP Microserver uses around
30w,
and costs £115.

And the purpose built jobbies around 10 W. Though I think I saw 4 W
mentioned for the TP-Link TL-R480T+.

well get an Atom board then ;-)

But add case, psu, extra LAN cards, etc. Then an awful lot of work
and learning to set up the software... If £30 can buy a suitable box
that is more or less ready to go, the ready made box wins.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 26 May 2016 12:03:15 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

Looking for a router with two seperate ethernet WAN ports and three
or four LAN ports (can be a built in switch).

I'm using pfSense, which is a FreeBSD-based firewall distribution,
running on a PC Engines apu1d4 board. It works a treat.

My hardware configuration is:

apu1d4 board: 4GB RAM, t40E CPU, 3 x GB NIC
aluminium case (the board is passively cooled through conduction to
the case)
Kingston 30GB SSD
12v PSU

4GB RAM is more than is required, and you can save a bit by getting
the 2GB version.

30GB SSD is hugely more than is required, but you don't save much by
going any smaller, and lots of free space should help the garbage
collection.

On Thu, 26 May 2016 20:26:39 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

She was home for two days the other week and got through 20
GB in 12 hours,0 but she just switched the torrent off when I
asked
her to, no arguement at all. There was a time when such a request
wouuld have lead to getting an earful of abuse starting from
denying
her Human Rights and working up!

niece in law on leaving home 'I never realised how expensive living is'

Nail, hammer, head. She's just spent a few months living on her own
in a "sheltered" flat(*) fending for herself. She has grown up more
in those few months than all of the previous 19 years... I expect the
next 3 months will also have a big affect. She's in Costa Rica as a
volunteer research assistant at a remote jungle camp that has no
power.

(*) Very much like sheltered flats for the aged but for 16 to 20
something year olds. 24/7 staff, support, help, advice, etc.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 26/05/2016 21:47, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 26 May 2016 17:37:49 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

The Draytek 2925 is a spot on match for the spec. If you stick it in its
19" rack mount bracket then the curvy top becomes less of an issue.

I normally do those for £175 inc VAT.

Delivered? Below Broadband Buyer if so (ICBA to work out what they
want for delivery, there doesn't appear to be a "Free Delivery for
purchases over £x").

Delivery is normally either 5 or 7.5 +vat depending on weight. I would
guess 5 in this case.

The bracket is rather pricey for what it is at £35,

Looks, no more than a bit of bent metal. I think even my limited
metal bashing skills could fabricate something from 3/16" 2 U strip.
Or just a bit of 50 mm angle.

Indeed, there is not much to it - just a bit of asymmetric angle with a
cutout in the short edge.

Just spotted that the 2925 has an external PSU and WAN3 is USB. B-(

I have not tried the TP-Link, but I have used lots of their switches
and some of their WiFi APs etc, and they seem reliable and well thought
out.

Yep, Ive a £20 TP-Link router wireless AP. The web interface is good,
lots of features, it works, I only use it as an AP though.

I don't think that model can do 3/4G directly, although you can
configure it to balance up to 4 wan connections, so you could add an
external 3G AP with an ethernet presentation such as the TP-LINK
(TL-MR3020) 150Mbps Travel-size Wireless 3G/4G Router.

Having the 3G bit on ethernet would be a Good Thing. I'm not sure
which side fo the house has best 3G, USB cable length limitations

So long as the "dongle" or whatever 3G device has a reverse SMA
connector or similar then you can put the aerial where its best suited
and cable that back to the device.

could be a problem. I've looked at the TL-MR2030 before and that has
been on the list of things to buy for along time, along with a dongle
and SIM to provide backup to the ADSL. Also the TL-R480T+ has an
internal PSU.

Fallen across the TL-R470T+, £30 quid... That's tripped my "there
must be a catch" alarm in double quick time! Looks very much like the
480T+ except the connections are on the back not the front.

Wanders off to find manuals to read, so I know what they *can* do,
not just what marketing think I want know.

Ah, less grunt (TL-R480T+ / TL-R470T+) Flash8 / 4 MB) DRAM64 / 64
MB) Concurent sessions30,000 / 10,000) and lack of One to One NAT,
Multinets NAT and APP Control. This is a domestic set up, mail, web,
some (not serious) online gaming from The Lad. I can't see the lack
of grunt or those features being an issue.

http://www.draytek.co.uk/products/business/vigor-2952

also seems to match the technical spec spot on (and then some)...

However the cheapest I can do those is £299 ex VAT, so you probably
won't like the price!

229 ex! Correct I don't like the price. B-)


299 even! - still it can do 100 concurrent VPN sessions and other stuff
- so its fairly "serious"...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 26/05/16 22:16, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 26 May 2016 12:31:45 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Just bear in mind that some crap old PCs will use 100-200w, and
this
will be left on 24/7 presumably. A new HP Microserver uses around
30w,
and costs £115.

And the purpose built jobbies around 10 W. Though I think I saw 4 W
mentioned for the TP-Link TL-R480T+.

well get an Atom board then ;-)

But add case, psu, extra LAN cards, etc. Then an awful lot of work
and learning to set up the software... If £30 can buy a suitable box
that is more or less ready to go, the ready made box wins.

Yes, and no.

In my case the drive to a linux server was simply to be able to access
the same data from two different desktops. Over time that grew to three
desktops, an laptop and two smart TVs..after I put a media server on it.
Then why not add a web server for various things..make it send timely
remninders...if I wanted to I could stuff extra ethernet cards in it at
very little extra expense.

I dislike a plethora of boxes. If one decent Linux machine can do the
job of half a dozen assorted wall warted loads of crap, that's fine.


--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

On Thu, 26 May 2016 23:40:52 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

Having the 3G bit on ethernet would be a Good Thing. I'm not sure
which side fo the house has best 3G, USB cable length limitations

So long as the "dongle" or whatever 3G device has a reverse SMA
connector or similar then you can put the aerial where its best suited
and cable that back to the device.

Not sure which is worse, 30 m max USB (using 6 x 5 m active USB
leads), or the RF losses in tiddly thin coax that is required to fit
SMA type connectors. Much better to plug dongle into TL-MR2030 and
place on appropiate window cill and run CAT5 back to the router. A
short, passive, USB could enable dongle to be put at the top of the
window if that gives a better signal.

Fallen across the TL-R470T+, £30 quid... That's tripped my "there
must be a catch" alarm in double quick time!

Ah, less grunt (TL-R480T+ / TL-R470T+) Flash8 / 4 MB) DRAM64 / 64
MB) Concurent sessions30,000 / 10,000) and lack of One to One NAT,
Multinets NAT and APP Control.

470 has no console port either (at least not on a user accesable
socket, wouldn't be surprised to find one inside...). Checked the
manuals page by page for the features common between the two they are
identical.

Amazon have 'em for £28.76 inc delivered and the reviews are good.

299 even! - still it can do 100 concurrent VPN sessions and other stuff
- so its fairly "serious"...

Way OTT for here, I've yet to venture into VPN land...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Fri, 27 May 2016 01:07:20 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

... if I wanted to I could stuff extra ethernet cards in it at
very little extra expense.

Hum, there's a point have HP Microserver with spare slot but don't
think the "out of the box" server distro I use can handle 2 WANs.
It's a not uncommon requirement so someone will have played
already...

I dislike a plethora of boxes. If one decent Linux machine can do the
job of half a dozen assorted wall warted loads of crap, that's fine.

Agree, there are about 16 13A sockets in use under this table, OK one
is a desk lamp but the majority are all for various bits of IT kit.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 27/05/2016 01:32, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 26 May 2016 23:40:52 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

Having the 3G bit on ethernet would be a Good Thing. I'm not sure
which side fo the house has best 3G, USB cable length limitations

So long as the "dongle" or whatever 3G device has a reverse SMA
connector or similar then you can put the aerial where its best suited
and cable that back to the device.

Not sure which is worse, 30 m max USB (using 6 x 5 m active USB
leads), or the RF losses in tiddly thin coax that is required to fit
SMA type connectors. Much better to plug dongle into TL-MR2030 and
place on appropiate window cill and run CAT5 back to the router. A
short, passive, USB could enable dongle to be put at the top of the
window if that gives a better signal.

CAT5 would be best for long runs, but a few metres of coax is not a
problem (you don't run the skinny stuff at distance, but use a short
length of it as "pigtail" get you onto a decent sized co-ax)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 26/05/2016 23:08, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 26 May 2016 20:26:39 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

She was home for two days the other week and got through 20
GB in 12 hours,0 but she just switched the torrent off when I
asked
her to, no arguement at all. There was a time when such a request
wouuld have lead to getting an earful of abuse starting from
denying
her Human Rights and working up!

niece in law on leaving home 'I never realised how expensive living is'

Nail, hammer, head. She's just spent a few months living on her own
in a "sheltered" flat(*) fending for herself. She has grown up more
in those few months than all of the previous 19 years... I expect the
next 3 months will also have a big affect. She's in Costa Rica as a
volunteer research assistant at a remote jungle camp that has no
power.

(*) Very much like sheltered flats for the aged but for 16 to 20
something year olds. 24/7 staff, support, help, advice, etc.


Something like this?:

https://www.thecollective.co.uk/coliving/old-oak

I suppose it was obvious, but to actually see it happening is a reality
check (for me).

--
Cheers, Rob

On 26/05/2016 23:40, John Rumm wrote:


299 even! - still it can do 100 concurrent VPN sessions and other stuff
- so its fairly "serious"...


Why would you want 100 concurrent VPN sessions.

Surely how fast it can do one VPN connection is the relevant question
for anyone with a fast connection.

On 26/05/2016 23:07, Caecilius wrote:
On Thu, 26 May 2016 12:03:15 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

Looking for a router with two seperate ethernet WAN ports and three
or four LAN ports (can be a built in switch).

I'm using pfSense, which is a FreeBSD-based firewall distribution,
running on a PC Engines apu1d4 board. It works a treat.


I use pfSense too. I've successfully used various hardware (including a
virtual machine). I'm currently using a ZBOX-CI323NANO, very small and
low power, but not very powerful.

Nick wrote:

John Rumm wrote:

it can do 100 concurrent VPN sessions and other stuff - so its
fairly "serious"...

Why would you want 100 concurrent VPN sessions.

If the router was in an office with lots of road-warriors using VPN.

On 27/05/2016 11:49, Andy Burns wrote:
Nick wrote:

John Rumm wrote:

it can do 100 concurrent VPN sessions and other stuff - so its
fairly "serious"...

Why would you want 100 concurrent VPN sessions.

If the router was in an office with lots of road-warriors using VPN.


Even with a 100 road-warriors you would want to know the speed for one
connection before you divided it by 100.

But yes Drayteks might be ok for multiple email sessions from road
warriors not so good for someone wishing to run a home high speed
openvpn tunnel.

They might cost more than other routers but I suspect the hardware is
basically the same a home router half the price. Given that you could
load tomato (or such like) on the cheaper router why bother with Draytek?

On Fri, 27 May 2016 13:23:58 +0100, Nick
wrote:

On 27/05/2016 11:49, Andy Burns wrote:
Nick wrote:

John Rumm wrote:

it can do 100 concurrent VPN sessions and other stuff - so its
fairly "serious"...

Why would you want 100 concurrent VPN sessions.

If the router was in an office with lots of road-warriors using VPN.


Even with a 100 road-warriors you would want to know the speed for one
connection before you divided it by 100.

But yes Drayteks might be ok for multiple email sessions from road
warriors not so good for someone wishing to run a home high speed
openvpn tunnel.

They might cost more than other routers but I suspect the hardware is
basically the same a home router half the price. Given that you could
load tomato (or such like) on the cheaper router why bother with Draytek?

The maximum number of concurrent VPN connections is often more to do
with the resources to maintain the number of security associations,
and perform the periodic rekeying, than it is to do with the
performance of a single VPN connection.

For IPsec VPNs, the AES encryption will often be done in hardware, and
even if it's not, many modern CPUs can do an AES round in a single
instruction. By contrast, the diffie hellman calculation is normally
not performed in hardware; and if you've got a lot of tunnels with PFS
turned on you end up doing a lot of rekeying.

On 27/05/2016 10:43, Nick wrote:
On 26/05/2016 23:40, John Rumm wrote:


299 even! - still it can do 100 concurrent VPN sessions and other stuff
- so its fairly "serious"...


Why would you want 100 concurrent VPN sessions.

In a business setting you may want concurrent links to multiple offices,
along with remote access for staff.

Surely how fast it can do one VPN connection is the relevant question
for anyone with a fast connection.

Its part of the equation, but running a VPN endpoint (rather than just
allowing for VPN traffic passthough) requires a certain amount of
computational grunt from the equipment to run the encryption. Lower end
VPN capable routers may do this entirely in software, and hence they
have fairly low limits on both the number of connections as well as the
thoughput of any single connection (over and above that of the raw link
speed available). Better routers will have dedicated hardware for
offloading the encryption to.

So in a nutshell, the number of VPN sessions it can handle at once is an
indication of the overall performance of the router. In this case I was
just illustrating to Dave that although the router would do what he
wanted, it was way over specced for the actual load he was going to put
on it.




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Fri, 27 May 2016 08:11:39 +0100, RJH wrote:

(*) Very much like sheltered flats for the aged but for 16 to 20
something year olds. 24/7 staff, support, help, advice, etc.

Something like this?:

https://www.thecollective.co.uk/coliving/old-oak

Er, no. Try the other end of the housing scale. This was (privately
run) housing for, otherwise, homeless young adults. With the aim to
get them back onto the "right road", not that she was off it.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 26/05/2016 12:03, Dave Liquorice wrote:
Looking for a router with two seperate ethernet WAN ports and three
or four LAN ports (can be a built in switch).

Not interested in bonding the two WAN ports (probaby not
possible anyway) but must be able to route traffic for say
YouTube/NetFlix/iPlayer etc via one of the WANs and VOIP via the
other. Normal traffic can go down either.

Be nice if it was IPv6 capable and still able to do the routing of
streaming correctly.

But it'll be using IPv4 so port forwarding with configurable source
and destination IPs and ports is required. A DMZ that will only go to
one IP isn't good enough.

Doesn't need WiFi.

Draytek.
My 2920n does all you want but with wifi (the n bit of the model number)

2925 seems to be it's successor.

I still run a 2910vg in the shop with 2 x ADSL2 connections. It's a bit
dated with regards to throughput but with Exchange Only lines I'm can't
get fibre speeds anyway so it's not an issue.

On Sat, 28 May 2016 13:21:35 +0100, Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)
wrote:

Draytek.
My 2920n does all you want but with wifi (the n bit of the model number)

2925 seems to be it's successor.

Ah the one with the wibbly top surface, WAN3 USB and a wall wart...

I think I'll probably end up with the cheapy TP-Link TL-R470T+, metal
box, built in PSU and configurable up to 4 ethernet WAN ports. Not
quite sure how the failover/backup system acts. But anyway being all
ethernet the 3G/4G device can put in the best place for it. That will
be a TL-MR3020 and should be arriving tommorow (yes Sunday) for the
princely sum of £22.50 inc VAT delivered.

Sorry John, couldn't resist PC Worlds £3.00 off from £27.99 and "10%
extra off marked price" on all networking stuff they have over the
weekend. Even if the 10% code wasn't working for that item (was for
others I tried). A phone call this morning got me a £2.49 credit, I'm
not going to argue over the penny.

A dongle won't be hard to find but a suitable data plan might be.
True PAYG that allows tethering would be ideal. That is you pay £X
for Y amount of data and it just sits there until you use it, be that
next week or the year after next. None of this 30 day expiry malarky
after activation and I bet you have to activate within Z months of
purchase as well. So you can't buy and leave it on the shelf until
required.

I still run a 2910vg in the shop with 2 x ADSL2 connections. It's a bit
dated with regards to throughput but with Exchange Only lines I'm can't
get fibre speeds anyway so it's not an issue.

They moved all the exchnage only lines here into a new cabinet across
the road from the exchnage. Not a fat lot of good when there is 3 km
of copper/ali between you and that cabinet though. New cabinets have
appeared outside all of the exchanges around here so in ten years
time with technology improvement we might just scrape into double
figure Mbps over that pair of wires.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 29/05/2016 01:30, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 28 May 2016 13:21:35 +0100, Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)
wrote:

They moved all the exchnage only lines here into a new cabinet across
the road from the exchnage. Not a fat lot of good when there is 3 km
of copper/ali between you and that cabinet though. New cabinets have
appeared outside all of the exchanges around here so in ten years
time with technology improvement we might just scrape into double
figure Mbps over that pair of wires.

Fortunately I have just 200m of wire to the exchange so downstream is
around 21Mbps but that also means there is no urgency for them to do
anything for a long while. Our exchange is listed as FFTPoD but that
again is limited to anyone plugged into a fibre cabinet so that's also
out the window although that would still not be an option until the
price was reduced to under £100 a month. So I'm stuck with 1Mbps upload
which is the biggest pain for me.

Hey ho.

That TPLink router looks like a great bit of kit for the money.

Data. Not PAYG but reasonable price esp. if you have 4G coverage:
https://www.giffgaff.com/goodybags

or their "gigabag" gives you 1GB a month for £7.50
You can tether any of their goody/gigabags except the unlimited one.
And although it's marketed as an "add-on" to a regular option you can
run the goodybags as standalone but if it's just as a fail-over then
possibly not the perfect solution. Of course if you had a long outage
you can upgrade and downgrade each month without any problem.

Cheers - Pete

On Mon, 30 May 2016 07:54:59 +0100, Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)
wrote:

Our exchange is listed as FFTPoD but that again is limited to anyone
plugged into a fibre cabinet ....

Er, Why? It's *fibre* to the premises. WTF has the copper got to do
with it? AIUI you just need to be close to a fibre node from which
they can run the fibre to you.

Fibre nodes are points where they have access to the fibres in a
joint box, yes they can probably get access in the FTTC DSLAM
cabinets but nodes are also in chambers every km or so. I say close
other wise the distance based part of the install cost get a bit
large.

Data. Not PAYG but reasonable price esp. if you have 4G coverage:
https://www.giffgaff.com/goodybags

or their "gigabag" gives you 1GB a month for £7.50

Yeah, they are one of the very few options I have found. Are you
saying they are contract only? I thought they offered a "free SIM"
with their standard charges (5p/MB) onto which you could but don't
have to add a Gigabag. Unfortunately they use O2, and O2 only offer
2G here. The other three networks all manage 3G and EE goes to
"double speed 4G".

Asda Mobile uses EE, allow tethering but don't (yet?) offer 4G. Their
standard rate is 5p/MB, several 30 day data only bundles, one of
which is £7.50/1GB. AFAICT they don't sell any dongles, so it's not a
"one stop shop".

Of course if you had a long outage you can upgrade and downgrade each
month without any problem.

That's what I intend. The 3G/4G would really be the backup to the
backup. So just having it sat, switched off, most of the time and
having to buy a bundle to get data at a sensible price would not be a
serious draw back.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 27/05/16 08:11, RJH wrote:


Something like this?:

https://www.thecollective.co.uk/coliving/old-oak

Not an answer for upthread, but that is similar to this

More units, less zoning? SF microapartments avoid "NIMByism"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LI0tqVmGtI

Student halls of accommodation forever until someone has a kid ...


--
Adrian C

Adrian Caspersz wrote:

RJH wrote:

https://www.thecollective.co.uk/coliving/old-oak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LI0tqVmGtI

Next step, Foxconn style dormitories ...

On 31/05/2016 03:56, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 30 May 2016 07:54:59 +0100, Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)
wrote:

Our exchange is listed as FFTPoD but that again is limited to anyone
plugged into a fibre cabinet ....

Er, Why? It's *fibre* to the premises. WTF has the copper got to do
with it? AIUI you just need to be close to a fibre node from which
they can run the fibre to you.

Dunno. Only thing on offer is Ethernet First Mile at some ludicrously
expensive cost for a supply that isn't anywhere near current downstream.
The updated BT Service checker (can't remember the URL) says "EO line so
you can't have fibre but we're exploring alternative technologies"

We get by but a fibre up-stream would help hugely with VPN from home and
backing up to MEGAsync.

or their "gigabag" gives you 1GB a month for £7.50

Yeah, they are one of the very few options I have found. Are you
saying they are contract only? I thought they offered a "free SIM"
with their standard charges (5p/MB) onto which you could but don't
have to add a Gigabag. Unfortunately they use O2, and O2 only offer
2G here. The other three networks all manage 3G and EE goes to
"double speed 4G".

Not contract, just a free SIM but paid month-by-month


Asda Mobile uses EE, allow tethering but don't (yet?) offer 4G. Their
standard rate is 5p/MB, several 30 day data only bundles, one of
which is £7.50/1GB. AFAICT they don't sell any dongles, so it's not a
"one stop shop".

Unlocked Dongle from e-bay no good?

Of course if you had a long outage you can upgrade and downgrade each
month without any problem.

That's what I intend. The 3G/4G would really be the backup to the
backup. So just having it sat, switched off, most of the time and
having to buy a bundle to get data at a sensible price would not be a
serious draw back.

I considered a dongle for back-up but Plusnet as a back-up for Zen has
been more than adequate even for business use including all calls in and
out going VOIP. Besides which the router is too far into the depths of
the shop to get a mobile signal from any network provider.