Working on an extension.

He said he needed a **** and asked where the toilet was. I replied in the
front garden. The front garden is not that big.

So he had a **** IN the front garden BEHIND the portaloo that he totally
failed to spot.

--
Adam

In article , ARW
writes
Working on an extension.

He said he needed a **** and asked where the toilet was. I replied in
the front garden. The front garden is not that big.

So he had a **** IN the front garden BEHIND the portaloo that he
totally failed to spot.

ROTFL
--
bert

On 04/02/16 19:19, ARW wrote:
Working on an extension.

He said he needed a **** and asked where the toilet was. I replied in
the front garden. The front garden is not that big.

So he had a **** IN the front garden BEHIND the portaloo that he totally
failed to spot.


Hmm class...

ARW posted
Working on an extension.

He said he needed a **** and asked where the toilet was. I replied in
the front garden. The front garden is not that big.

So he had a **** IN the front garden BEHIND the portaloo that he
totally failed to spot.


No problem. Just tell him to come into work at 6am in the morning, and
then change your mind and decide he doesn't need to, and don't bother to
text him to tell him so. Then congratulate yourself that your manners
are much better than his.

--
Les

"Big Les Wade" wrote in message
...
ARW posted
Working on an extension.

He said he needed a **** and asked where the toilet was. I replied in the
front garden. The front garden is not that big.

So he had a **** IN the front garden BEHIND the portaloo that he totally
failed to spot.


No problem. Just tell him to come into work at 6am in the morning, and
then change your mind and decide he doesn't need to, and don't bother to
text him to tell him so. Then congratulate yourself that your manners are
much better than his.

Do you have a reason for this rant?



--
Adam

On 04/02/2016 22:20, ARW wrote:
"Big Les Wade" wrote in message
...
ARW posted
Working on an extension.

He said he needed a **** and asked where the toilet was. I replied in
the front garden. The front garden is not that big.

So he had a **** IN the front garden BEHIND the portaloo that he
totally failed to spot.


No problem. Just tell him to come into work at 6am in the morning, and
then change your mind and decide he doesn't need to, and don't bother
to text him to tell him so. Then congratulate yourself that your
manners are much better than his.

Do you have a reason for this rant?




I hope he becomes a top electrician. There's a difference between an
embarrassing mistake and being fundamentally useless.

On Thursday, 4 February 2016 19:20:05 UTC, ARW wrote:
Working on an extension.

He said he needed a **** and asked where the toilet was. I replied in the
front garden. The front garden is not that big.

So he had a **** IN the front garden BEHIND the portaloo that he totally
failed to spot.

--
Adam

He's almost efficient enough to apply for a managment job here.

On Friday, 5 February 2016 09:50:04 UTC, stuart noble wrote:
On 04/02/2016 22:20, ARW wrote:
"Big Les Wade" wrote in message
...
ARW posted
Working on an extension.

He said he needed a **** and asked where the toilet was. I replied in
the front garden. The front garden is not that big.

So he had a **** IN the front garden BEHIND the portaloo that he
totally failed to spot.


No problem. Just tell him to come into work at 6am in the morning, and
then change your mind and decide he doesn't need to, and don't bother
to text him to tell him so. Then congratulate yourself that your
manners are much better than his.

Do you have a reason for this rant?




I hope he becomes a top electrician. There's a difference between an
embarrassing mistake and being fundamentally useless.

Yes being uselss takes lot of practice.

On 04/02/2016 19:19, ARW wrote:

So he had a **** IN the front garden BEHIND the portaloo that he totally
failed to spot.


I'd do the same, for sure. Those portaloos are always gross!

On Friday, 5 February 2016 13:50:36 UTC, GB wrote:
So he had a **** IN the front garden BEHIND the portaloo that he totally
failed to spot.
I'd do the same, for sure. Those portaloos are always gross!

The easy answer to that is to tell the apprentice to clean it out.

Owain

On Fri, 05 Feb 2016 02:24:58 -0800, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 4 February 2016 19:20:05 UTC, ARW wrote:
Working on an extension.

He said he needed a **** and asked where the toilet was. I replied in
the front garden. The front garden is not that big.

So he had a **** IN the front garden BEHIND the portaloo that he
totally failed to spot.

--
Adam

He's almost efficient enough to apply for a managment job here.

He could replace my ex-manager. Not that I've been bothered since I
retired at the end of December!

stuart noble wrote
ARW posted
Working on an extension.

He said he needed a **** and asked where the toilet was. I replied in
the front garden. The front garden is not that big.

So he had a **** IN the front garden BEHIND the portaloo that he
totally failed to spot.

I hope he becomes a top electrician.

Tad unlikely when he does something as stupid as that.

There's a difference between an embarrassing mistake and being
fundamentally useless.

Personally I think its evidence that he is fundamentally
useless when not only didn’t he notice the portaloo was
there when he showed up in the first place, he didn’t
even notice it when Adam told him where it was.

Its not as if a portaloo is some tiny
thing that gets lost underneath stuff.

On 05/02/2016 22:11, Rod Speed wrote:


stuart noble wrote
ARW posted
Working on an extension.

He said he needed a **** and asked where the toilet was. I replied in
the front garden. The front garden is not that big.

So he had a **** IN the front garden BEHIND the portaloo that he
totally failed to spot.

I hope he becomes a top electrician.

Tad unlikely when he does something as stupid as that.

There's a difference between an embarrassing mistake and being
fundamentally useless.

Personally I think its evidence that he is fundamentally
useless when not only didn’t he notice the portaloo was
there when he showed up in the first place, he didn’t
even notice it when Adam told him where it was.

Its not as if a portaloo is some tiny
thing that gets lost underneath stuff.

It would seem to come under the heading of common sense I agree, but
I've known plenty of clever people who were decidedly deficient in that
area

On Sat, 6 Feb 2016 10:34:31 +0000, stuart noble
wrote:

snip

It would seem to come under the heading of common sense I agree, but
I've known plenty of clever people who were decidedly deficient in that
area

And he may not have ever seen a 'PortaLoo' before ... or knows he was
working with a jokey person who might have been having a laugh with
him (like people who wind the windows down on the cars and say 'air
conditioning').

I often amazes us (inc our 25yr old daughter) just how little exposure
to the real / outside world many of today's 'youth' have had.

Years ago we went out for the day with daughter and her bf (at the
time) and took our inflatable dinghy up the estuary on the outboard.
He was quite uneasy to start with because he had never been in a boat
before. It also turned out he'd never flown a power kite before
either, or been camping (on a motorbike or bicycle especially) or any
of the things our daughter took for granted (at the time).

It's when you 'do things' that you learn stuff and pick up the
peripheral experiences. I think many parents don't expose their
children to such things these days (for whatever reason, cost, lack of
opportunity, lack of interest etc etc).

In the case of daughters BF at the time, his Dad had left them at an
early age and so was brought (to the best of her abilities) up by just
his Mum.

Our daughter was lucky in that our family all did stuff so she got
lots of opportunities to learn about the outside world. She went to
the local parks with the dogs and Amsterdam (diamonds, flowers and
boats) and Paris (museums, galleries and towers) with my Mum and Dad.
She was watching football with my BIL, doing 'girly things' with her
Mum, engineering / outdoor things (cycling / archery) with me and
being 'chucked about' by her other grandad (much to her Nan's dismay).

All pretty std stuff for us, not always the case for less fortunate
families (for whatever reason).

Cheers, T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 6 Feb 2016 10:34:31 +0000, stuart noble
wrote:

snip

It would seem to come under the heading of common sense I agree, but
I've known plenty of clever people who were decidedly deficient in that
area

And he may not have ever seen a 'PortaLoo' before ... or knows he was
working with a jokey person who might have been having a laugh with
him (like people who wind the windows down on the cars and say 'air
conditioning').

I often amazes us (inc our 25yr old daughter) just how little exposure
to the real / outside world many of today's 'youth' have had.

Years ago we went out for the day with daughter and her bf (at the
time) and took our inflatable dinghy up the estuary on the outboard.
He was quite uneasy to start with because he had never been in a boat
before. It also turned out he'd never flown a power kite before
either, or been camping (on a motorbike or bicycle especially) or any
of the things our daughter took for granted (at the time).

It's when you 'do things' that you learn stuff and pick up the
peripheral experiences. I think many parents don't expose their
children to such things these days (for whatever reason, cost, lack of
opportunity, lack of interest etc etc).

In the case of daughters BF at the time, his Dad had left them at an
early age and so was brought (to the best of her abilities) up by just
his Mum.

Our daughter was lucky in that our family all did stuff so she got
lots of opportunities to learn about the outside world. She went to
the local parks with the dogs and Amsterdam (diamonds, flowers and
boats) and Paris (museums, galleries and towers) with my Mum and Dad.
She was watching football with my BIL, doing 'girly things' with her
Mum, engineering / outdoor things (cycling / archery) with me and
being 'chucked about' by her other grandad (much to her Nan's dismay).

All pretty std stuff for us, not always the case for less fortunate
families (for whatever reason).


OTOH it is also possible that he is as thick as **** and will never be an
electrician.

I have not worked with this one very often [1] but I played hell up in the
office last week because despite him been a second year apprentice he did
not know how to wire up a switched fused spur.


[1] We have 4 apprentices ATM.

No 1 will not work with me (his Mum rang up to complain about me).
No 2 is a lazy ******* but knows his stuff.
No 3 is struggling but I enjoy working with him and he is slowly getting
better - he gives 110% effort in everything he does [2].
No 4 the one I mentioned in the post - I am rather glad that I have seldom
worked with him (there are two branches to the firm and he is normally on
the other branch)

[2] He also was very happy with me last week when he had a leak on his car
radiator. I followed him home carrying lots of spare water (10 miles out of
my way home) to make sure that he got home without damaging his engine and
then picked him up the next morning to take him to work and then dropped him
off back at home after work.

--
Adam

"GB" wrote in message
...
On 04/02/2016 19:19, ARW wrote:

So he had a **** IN the front garden BEHIND the portaloo that he totally
failed to spot.


I'd do the same, for sure. Those portaloos are always gross!


I am sure the owners of the house would be impressed to see that.

--
Adam

On Sat, 6 Feb 2016 12:04:20 -0000, "ARW"
wrote:

snip

All pretty std stuff for us, not always the case for less fortunate
families (for whatever reason).


OTOH it is also possible that he is as thick as **** and will never be an
electrician.

Devils advocate mode / on

Well, of course, but what is 'thickness'? Is it the ability (or not)
to work things out for yourself which will be based on what you have
already done / know plus what you can work out from the circumstances
at the time? He may (for example) be a much better musician or artist
than you could ever be and would it be fair to call you 'thick'
because of that?

I have not worked with this one very often [1] but I played hell up in the
office last week because despite him been a second year apprentice he did
not know how to wire up a switched fused spur.

But why didn't he? Would he have been able to if you had shown him how
(even if it was 'again')? Is he interested or just doing it to get
some benefits etc?


[1] We have 4 apprentices ATM.

No 1 will not work with me (his Mum rang up to complain about me).

Ok. ;-)

No 2 is a lazy ******* but knows his stuff.

Shame. Any idea why he is lazy?

No 3 is struggling but I enjoy working with him and he is slowly getting
better - he gives 110% effort in everything he does [2].

And that's much of the battle IMHO (effort).

No 4 the one I mentioned in the post - I am rather glad that I have seldom
worked with him (there are two branches to the firm and he is normally on
the other branch)

Ok.

[2] He also was very happy with me last week when he had a leak on his car
radiator. I followed him home carrying lots of spare water (10 miles out of
my way home) to make sure that he got home without damaging his engine and
then picked him up the next morning to take him to work and then dropped him
off back at home after work.

That's fine as long as he is looking into fixing the leak in between.
Be that putting it in a garage (that he may have to save up for) or
looking to see how / if he can fix it himself.

DA mode / off

I hear what you say and hear it from our daughter pretty regularly.
She joined a local Council grounds works team and put in the 100%.
Because she was one of the few who could drive, had a chainsaw and
pesticides ticket and was seen by all to be 'a grafter' (and strong by
all she arm wrestled g) she earned their respect of most of the
other workers and 'da management' (whilst also ticking their diversity
box of course). She also, whilst remaining very much a girl, made a
point of fitting in, being one of the lads.

But then she's not stupid (highest girl achiever in her last year at
school) and is fully aware of how the world works and what you have to
do ('graft', be reliable and trustworthy basically) if you want to get
on.

Now she is off doing her own thing but they still call her back in
when they get in a spot and see too has to take out the various
apprentices. As you report, some are obviously not interested in doing
what needs to be done but (for whatever reason) don't seem to be able
to accept the fact that they are there to do a job and it should
really be (and to bring it back on topic) '**** or get off the pot'.

That said, with a bit of guidance and encouragement (part of the role
of a tutor / apprentice relationship) some of them can and do 'get
their stuff together' and the then have a good and productive day. Do
they get paid any more, of course not but they might just respond to
some encouraging words (and I'm not suggesting you don't do such where
appropriate etc) may be the only time they have had such in their
lives?

I know of many 'ner_do_wells' that we thought were destined for a life
behind bars get that break that allows them to grow up, find their
niche and go on to make something of themselves.

As an ex IT trainer and someone who has always been happy to try to
help those showing even the slightest interest in something, them
maybe going on to be good, gives me a buzz. ;-)

But as they say, 'you can't help those who won't help themselves' but
there are some times when people just need that little pointer in the
right direction to get the ball rolling.

Cheers, T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 Feb 2016 12:04:20 -0000, "ARW"
wrote:

snip

All pretty std stuff for us, not always the case for less fortunate
families (for whatever reason).


OTOH it is also possible that he is as thick as **** and will never be an
electrician.

Devils advocate mode / on

Well, of course, but what is 'thickness'? Is it the ability (or not)
to work things out for yourself which will be based on what you have
already done / know plus what you can work out from the circumstances
at the time? He may (for example) be a much better musician or artist
than you could ever be and would it be fair to call you 'thick'
because of that?


No.

Because music and art are not part of the syllabus of an apprentice
electricians course!

--
Adam

On Sat, 6 Feb 2016 12:04:20 -0000, "ARW"
wrote:

[2] He also was very happy with me last week when he had a leak on his car
radiator. I followed him home carrying lots of spare water (10 miles out of
my way home) to make sure that he got home without damaging his engine and
then picked him up the next morning to take him to work and then dropped him
off back at home after work.

Did you loosen the pressure cap?

One of our managers took a new transit out and on his way home
wondered why the heater wasn't working. wallet and phone obscured the
temperature gauge. Eventually he pulled over an a top hose had split,
he gaffer taped the hose, refilled the coolant, screwed the cap back
on and proceeded home. Claims the engine warning light never came on
but warped the head, £600 in parts alone, assuming the head can be
skimmed.

AJH

On Sat, 6 Feb 2016 13:03:21 -0000, "ARW"
wrote:

"T i m" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 6 Feb 2016 12:04:20 -0000, "ARW"
wrote:

snip

All pretty std stuff for us, not always the case for less fortunate
families (for whatever reason).


OTOH it is also possible that he is as thick as **** and will never be an
electrician.

Devils advocate mode / on

Well, of course, but what is 'thickness'? Is it the ability (or not)
to work things out for yourself which will be based on what you have
already done / know plus what you can work out from the circumstances
at the time? He may (for example) be a much better musician or artist
than you could ever be and would it be fair to call you 'thick'
because of that?


No.

Because music and art are not part of the syllabus of an apprentice
electricians course!

LOL, quite, but not really the point (on a human level). ;-)

So, no matter what else someone might be good at, they could be
considered 'thick' (in general) if they don't happen to be good at one
specific thing?

I'd go with 'doesn't seem to be cut out for electrical engineering or
installation' but I'm not sure 'thick' is necessarily fair.

I'm not sure you should label anyone such for not say having the same
skills as you, the appropriate interest or even attitude. They could
be called 'short sighted' if they were complaining about having to
take their turn making the tea or not putting in the effort when they
had the skills but if they are simply lacking in intellect or hand-eye
coordination I'm not sure 'thick' would be a PC word (FWTW etc).

I was an IT instructor for 7 years and one of my 'claims to fame' was
I never lost a delegate off any of my courses because they couldn't
keep up. This sometimes meant giving up some of my lunch break or
staying with them after hours but all of them eventually 'got it'.

(Luckily) we aren't all the same and 'people' learn at different
speeds and in different ways. However, the difference between that and
your apprentices is that my delegates (or their employers) had all
paid good money to be there so they were generally 'interested'.

Along your lines though, another of daughters ex's is a tutor at the
local Horticultural College and it sounds like he sees the sort of
range of behaviour you mentioned with his apprentices.

I wonder how many of them are trying to be round pegs in square holes
and might be better served doing something else (to everyone's
benefit)?

Cheers, T i m

In message , T i m
writes

So, no matter what else someone might be good at, they could be
considered 'thick' (in general) if they don't happen to be good at one
specific thing?

Difficult. My ex SiL was thick as a plank when it came to anything
remotely practical. Even something as basic as everyday cooking, and
general household tasks. Utterly clueless yet, at the same time, seemed
to receive degrees like other people receive junk mail. She certainly
wasn't thick, but I would struggle to live with someone that
impractical.
--
Graeme

On Saturday, 6 February 2016 12:04:49 UTC, ARW wrote:
I have not worked with this one very often [1] but I played hell up in the
office last week because despite him been a second year apprentice he did
not know how to wire up a switched fused spur.

It is difficult isn't it if you've never seen one before, all the possible permutations of L and N and Supply and Load :-)

Admittedly I do have one in my kitchen where the neon glows all the time, but that's just temporary to make the end of the cable safe.

Owain

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
On 05/02/2016 22:11, Rod Speed wrote:


stuart noble wrote
ARW posted
Working on an extension.

He said he needed a **** and asked where the toilet was. I replied in
the front garden. The front garden is not that big.

So he had a **** IN the front garden BEHIND the portaloo that he
totally failed to spot.

I hope he becomes a top electrician.

Tad unlikely when he does something as stupid as that.

There's a difference between an embarrassing mistake and being
fundamentally useless.

Personally I think its evidence that he is fundamentally
useless when not only didn’t he notice the portaloo was
there when he showed up in the first place, he didn’t
even notice it when Adam told him where it was.

Its not as if a portaloo is some tiny
thing that gets lost underneath stuff.

It would seem to come under the heading of common sense I agree, but I've
known plenty of clever people who were decidedly deficient in that area

Sure, but none of them have ever been THAT stupid IME.

T i m wrote
stuart noble wrote

It would seem to come under the heading of common
sense I agree, but I've known plenty of clever people
who were decidedly deficient in that area

And he may not have ever seen a 'PortaLoo' before ...

He'd have to be pretty stupid to not realise what it
was for even if he hadn't and I just don't believe that
it was actually the first time he had ever seen one.

or knows he was working with a jokey person who might
have been having a laugh with him (like people who wind
the windows down on the cars and say 'air conditioning').

He must be pretty stupid to not notice
one there and have to ask where to ****.

I often amazes us (inc our 25yr old daughter) just how little exposure
to the real / outside world many of today's 'youth' have had.

Years ago we went out for the day with daughter and her bf (at the
time) and took our inflatable dinghy up the estuary on the outboard.
He was quite uneasy to start with because he had never been in a
boat before. It also turned out he'd never flown a power kite before
either, or been camping (on a motorbike or bicycle especially) or
any of the things our daughter took for granted (at the time).

Nothing like not being aware of what portaloos are
for given that so many professional renos and new
houses have them when they are being built.

It's when you 'do things' that you learn stuff and pick up
the peripheral experiences. I think many parents don't
expose their children to such things these days (for whatever
reason, cost, lack of opportunity, lack of interest etc etc).

Not too many bother with portaloos.

In the case of daughters BF at the time, his Dad
had left them at an early age and so was brought
(to the best of her abilities) up by just his Mum.

Our daughter was lucky in that our family all did stuff so she got
lots of opportunities to learn about the outside world. She went to
the local parks with the dogs and Amsterdam (diamonds, flowers and
boats) and Paris (museums, galleries and towers) with my Mum and Dad.
She was watching football with my BIL, doing 'girly things' with her
Mum, engineering / outdoor things (cycling / archery) with me and
being 'chucked about' by her other grandad (much to her Nan's dismay).

All pretty std stuff for us, not always the case
for less fortunate families (for whatever reason).

All but the most stupid should have noticed portaloos even without that
stuff.

In article ,
writes:
On Saturday, 6 February 2016 12:04:49 UTC, ARW wrote:
I have not worked with this one very often [1] but I played hell up in the
office last week because despite him been a second year apprentice he did
not know how to wire up a switched fused spur.

It is difficult isn't it if you've never seen one before, all the possible permutations of L and N and Supply and Load :-)

I presume he could wire up a socket and a ceiling rose by year 2.
If he can't use those skills to work out how to wire up an FCU,
he isn't cut out to be an electrician, because he's never actually
going to understand what he's doing.

Admittedly I do have one in my kitchen where the neon glows all the time, but that's just temporary to make the end of the cable safe.

Owain




--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 Feb 2016 13:03:21 -0000, "ARW"
wrote:

"T i m" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 6 Feb 2016 12:04:20 -0000, "ARW"
wrote:

snip

All pretty std stuff for us, not always the case for less fortunate
families (for whatever reason).


OTOH it is also possible that he is as thick as **** and will never be
an
electrician.

Devils advocate mode / on

Well, of course, but what is 'thickness'? Is it the ability (or not)
to work things out for yourself which will be based on what you have
already done / know plus what you can work out from the circumstances
at the time? He may (for example) be a much better musician or artist
than you could ever be and would it be fair to call you 'thick'
because of that?


No.

Because music and art are not part of the syllabus of an apprentice
electricians course!

LOL, quite, but not really the point (on a human level). ;-)

So, no matter what else someone might be good at, they could be
considered 'thick' (in general) if they don't happen to be good at one
specific thing?

I'd go with 'doesn't seem to be cut out for electrical engineering
or installation' but I'm not sure 'thick' is necessarily fair.

You'd have to be pretty thick to not even notice a ****ing great
thing like a portaloo when you are standing right next to it.

I'm not sure you should label anyone such for not say having
the same skills as you, the appropriate interest or even attitude.

He's not doing anything like that.

They could be called 'short sighted' if they were complaining about
having to take their turn making the tea or not putting in the effort when
they had the skills but if they are simply lacking in intellect or
hand-eye
coordination I'm not sure 'thick' would be a PC word (FWTW etc).

I was an IT instructor for 7 years and one of my 'claims to fame' was
I never lost a delegate off any of my courses because they couldn't
keep up. This sometimes meant giving up some of my lunch break or
staying with them after hours but all of them eventually 'got it'.

(Luckily) we aren't all the same and 'people' learn at different
speeds and in different ways. However, the difference between that and
your apprentices is that my delegates (or their employers) had all
paid good money to be there so they were generally 'interested'.

Along your lines though, another of daughters ex's is a tutor at the
local Horticultural College and it sounds like he sees the sort of
range of behaviour you mentioned with his apprentices.

I wonder how many of them are trying to be round pegs in square holes
and might be better served doing something else (to everyone's
benefit)?

All but the most stupid should have noticed portaloos even without that
stuff.

I pointed one out to my 4 year old grand daughter the other day, and
asked her what she thought it might be. As it wasn't pink, she wasn't
very interested but now she knows and, hopefully, she won't forget. Add
all these little things together and you have what we call an education.

On Sun, 7 Feb 2016 09:01:16 +0000, stuart noble
wrote:



All but the most stupid should have noticed portaloos even without that
stuff.

I pointed one out to my 4 year old grand daughter the other day, and
asked her what she thought it might be. As it wasn't pink, she wasn't
very interested but now she knows and, hopefully, she won't forget. Add
all these little things together and you have what we call an education.

Bingo. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Sunday, 7 February 2016 09:02:02 UTC, stuart noble wrote:
I pointed one out to my 4 year old grand daughter the other day, and
asked her what she thought it might be. As it wasn't pink, she wasn't
very interested

Pink ones are available:

http://loohire.org/enviro-loo-toilet-hire-services

http://www.peeweetoilethire.com/gallery

Owain

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 6 February 2016 12:04:49 UTC, ARW wrote:
I have not worked with this one very often [1] but I played hell up in
the
office last week because despite him been a second year apprentice he did
not know how to wire up a switched fused spur.

It is difficult isn't it if you've never seen one before, all the possible
permutations of L and N and Supply and Load :-)

Admittedly I do have one in my kitchen where the neon glows all the time,
but that's just temporary to make the end of the cable safe.


I have got one in my loft. It means I can find the switch in the dark.

--
Adam

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 Feb 2016 13:03:21 -0000, "ARW"
wrote:

"T i m" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 6 Feb 2016 12:04:20 -0000, "ARW"
wrote:

snip

All pretty std stuff for us, not always the case for less fortunate
families (for whatever reason).


OTOH it is also possible that he is as thick as **** and will never be
an
electrician.

Devils advocate mode / on

Well, of course, but what is 'thickness'? Is it the ability (or not)
to work things out for yourself which will be based on what you have
already done / know plus what you can work out from the circumstances
at the time? He may (for example) be a much better musician or artist
than you could ever be and would it be fair to call you 'thick'
because of that?


No.

Because music and art are not part of the syllabus of an apprentice
electricians course!

LOL, quite, but not really the point (on a human level). ;-)

So, no matter what else someone might be good at, they could be
considered 'thick' (in general) if they don't happen to be good at one
specific thing?

I'd go with 'doesn't seem to be cut out for electrical engineering or
installation' but I'm not sure 'thick' is necessarily fair.

I'm not sure you should label anyone such for not say having the same
skills as you, the appropriate interest or even attitude. They could
be called 'short sighted' if they were complaining about having to
take their turn making the tea or not putting in the effort when they
had the skills but if they are simply lacking in intellect or hand-eye
coordination I'm not sure 'thick' would be a PC word (FWTW etc).


PC words are not for me.

If a second year electrical apprentice cannot wire up a switched fused spur
then IMHO he is a thick ******* and should be getting ready to leave.

--
Adam

On 07/02/2016 10:42, ARW wrote:

If a second year electrical apprentice cannot wire up a switched fused
spur then IMHO he is a thick ******* and should be getting ready to leave.


What gets me is how did he get as far as year 2 of his apprenticeship?
Surely, it's sensible to chuck him out after a week/month or two? It
should have been obvious by then that he didn't have the nous to do the job.

"GB" wrote in message
...
On 07/02/2016 10:42, ARW wrote:

If a second year electrical apprentice cannot wire up a switched fused
spur then IMHO he is a thick ******* and should be getting ready to
leave.


What gets me is how did he get as far as year 2 of his apprenticeship?
Surely, it's sensible to chuck him out after a week/month or two? It
should have been obvious by then that he didn't have the nous to do the
job.


You should see the ones we do throw out!

--
Adam

On 07/02/2016 10:52, ARW wrote:
"GB" wrote in message
...
On 07/02/2016 10:42, ARW wrote:

If a second year electrical apprentice cannot wire up a switched fused
spur then IMHO he is a thick ******* and should be getting ready to
leave.


What gets me is how did he get as far as year 2 of his apprenticeship?
Surely, it's sensible to chuck him out after a week/month or two? It
should have been obvious by then that he didn't have the nous to do
the job.


You should see the ones we do throw out!


What happens next? He fails his exams a couple of times, and then he
gets thrown out?

"GB" wrote in message
...
On 07/02/2016 10:52, ARW wrote:
"GB" wrote in message
...
On 07/02/2016 10:42, ARW wrote:

If a second year electrical apprentice cannot wire up a switched fused
spur then IMHO he is a thick ******* and should be getting ready to
leave.


What gets me is how did he get as far as year 2 of his apprenticeship?
Surely, it's sensible to chuck him out after a week/month or two? It
should have been obvious by then that he didn't have the nous to do
the job.


You should see the ones we do throw out!


What happens next? He fails his exams a couple of times, and then he gets
thrown out?

College have said that he is failing. And the answer to your question is
yes.



--
Adam

On Sun, 7 Feb 2016 10:42:39 -0000, "ARW"
wrote:

snip

I'd go with 'doesn't seem to be cut out for electrical engineering or
installation' but I'm not sure 'thick' is necessarily fair.

I'm not sure you should label anyone such for not say having the same
skills as you, the appropriate interest or even attitude. They could
be called 'short sighted' if they were complaining about having to
take their turn making the tea or not putting in the effort when they
had the skills but if they are simply lacking in intellect or hand-eye
coordination I'm not sure 'thick' would be a PC word (FWTW etc).


PC words are not for me.

We know mate. ;-)

If a second year electrical apprentice cannot wire up a switched fused spur
then IMHO he is a thick ******* and should be getting ready to leave.

No problem with the logic or potential outcome (from a practical /
commercial pov) but is he really as you describe or simply not got a
good memory, isn't very good with hand skills, isn't very confident or
have 'other issues' (possibly a bad home life)?

I appreciate you aren't a social worker so none of those things (if
any were the case) should be 'your problem', but there can be more to
things than what can been seen on the surface.

I don't think I've ever met anyone I would call 'thick' because I
appreciate we are all different, have different backgrounds,
opportunities and intellects and of course, 'thickness' (as you would
call it) is comparative.

From my own observations (in life and as an IT Trainer), one of the
biggest hurdles to learning is 'attention span'. There have been some
people who are simply unable to focus on anything long enough to
really learn much other than the very basic stuff. That doesn't mean
they can never get there, it just means they may take longer getting
there or need to do so using different techniques? Are they 'thick' or
simply neurologically 'different' to the norm / ideal?

Of course, you need a certain standard of apprentice, someone who
meets the formal framework to an acceptable level in a prescribed time
and if they don't meet that then they will have 'failed'. *If* (and
this is the biggie) they are keen and doing their best and actually
want to be in whatever game then that's a shame.

Ironically, many people 'written off' like that can go on to do big /
good things because being discarded by 'the system' hardens their
resolve. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 07/02/2016 11:37, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 7 Feb 2016 10:42:39 -0000, "ARW"


8

If a second year electrical apprentice cannot wire up a switched fused spur
then IMHO he is a thick ******* and should be getting ready to leave.

No problem with the logic or potential outcome (from a practical /
commercial pov) but is he really as you describe or simply not got a
good memory, isn't very good with hand skills, isn't very confident or
have 'other issues' (possibly a bad home life)?

A bad home doesn't stop you spending the two minutes it takes to learn
how to wire a fused spur.

On Sun, 7 Feb 2016 12:36:55 +0000, dennis@home
wrote:

On 07/02/2016 11:37, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 7 Feb 2016 10:42:39 -0000, "ARW"


8

If a second year electrical apprentice cannot wire up a switched fused spur
then IMHO he is a thick ******* and should be getting ready to leave.

No problem with the logic or potential outcome (from a practical /
commercial pov) but is he really as you describe or simply not got a
good memory, isn't very good with hand skills, isn't very confident or
have 'other issues' (possibly a bad home life)?

A bad home doesn't stop you spending the two minutes it takes to learn
how to wire a fused spur.

No, but it might distract you in general for learning about stuff in
general. How long was the lad given to do what was required? How many
had he done before, especially outside the classroom? How was his
confidence being affected by his surroundings at the time? I'm not
making excuses for anyone, I'm just suggesting we aren't all the same
hand can have our own issues.

And it's not *just* about that one instance, it can affect everything
you try to do.

When I was 16 I extended some SWA that fed power to a small shed (for
just a light and lawnmower) out to also feed a pond pump [1] for a
family friend.

As it happened I was doing electrical engineering at college and
looked forward to that afternoon each week as much as I did the car
repair, welding, fabrication and catering classes. I was good at all
of them (in comparison etc) because I was interested, could absorb
information (because I was interested and wasn't distracted), good
with my hands and (luckily) didn't have anything else to worry about
at the time.

Cheers, T i m

[1] 40+ years later and the feed is still working (even if she's had a
few pumps along the way). ;-)

On 07/02/2016 11:02, ARW wrote:
"GB" wrote in message
...
On 07/02/2016 10:52, ARW wrote:
"GB" wrote in message
...
On 07/02/2016 10:42, ARW wrote:

If a second year electrical apprentice cannot wire up a switched fused
spur then IMHO he is a thick ******* and should be getting ready to
leave.


What gets me is how did he get as far as year 2 of his apprenticeship?
Surely, it's sensible to chuck him out after a week/month or two? It
should have been obvious by then that he didn't have the nous to do
the job.


You should see the ones we do throw out!


What happens next? He fails his exams a couple of times, and then he
gets thrown out?

College have said that he is failing. And the answer to your question is
yes.

If it is that obvious at the outset why bother with him?

The only reason I can think of is a very low minimum wage for the first
year and negligible labour cost to the company.

On 07/02/2016 12:55, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 7 Feb 2016 12:36:55 +0000, dennis@home
wrote:

On 07/02/2016 11:37, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 7 Feb 2016 10:42:39 -0000, "ARW"


8

If a second year electrical apprentice cannot wire up a switched fused spur
then IMHO he is a thick ******* and should be getting ready to leave.

No problem with the logic or potential outcome (from a practical /
commercial pov) but is he really as you describe or simply not got a
good memory, isn't very good with hand skills, isn't very confident or
have 'other issues' (possibly a bad home life)?

A bad home doesn't stop you spending the two minutes it takes to learn
how to wire a fused spur.

No, but it might distract you in general for learning about stuff in
general. How long was the lad given to do what was required? How many
had he done before, especially outside the classroom? How was his
confidence being affected by his surroundings at the time? I'm not
making excuses for anyone, I'm just suggesting we aren't all the same
hand can have our own issues.

And it's not *just* about that one instance, it can affect everything
you try to do.

When I was 16 I extended some SWA that fed power to a small shed (for
just a light and lawnmower) out to also feed a pond pump [1] for a
family friend.

As it happened I was doing electrical engineering at college and
looked forward to that afternoon each week as much as I did the car
repair, welding, fabrication and catering classes. I was good at all
of them (in comparison etc) because I was interested, could absorb
information (because I was interested and wasn't distracted), good
with my hands and (luckily) didn't have anything else to worry about
at the time.

Cheers, T i m

[1] 40+ years later and the feed is still working (even if she's had a
few pumps along the way). ;-)



And if your forte is nicking cars, make sure you're the best bloody car
thief there's ever been.