"Volkswagen was reportedly warned about rigging emissions tests on its
vehicles years ago, not only by one of its suppliers but also the German
car giant's own engineers.

According to the Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung newspaper, VW's
technicians flagged up concerns about the engine management software the
company was using in its motors back in 2011.

It was also reported today that VW had been cautioned eight years ago
not to rig the tests by its software supplier Bosch. According to Bild
am Sonntag, Bosch had written to VW in 2007.

The cheatware detects when a motor undergoes emissions testing, and then
fudges the engine output to pass the examination by cutting performance
to meet emissions standards for nitrogen oxide."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09...e_ye ars_ago/

--
Global warming is the new Margaret Thatcher. There is no ill in the
world it's not directly responsible for.

On Sunday, 27 September 2015 23:04:15 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The cheatware detects when a motor undergoes emissions testing, and then

how is that possible?

wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote

The cheatware detects when a motor undergoes emissions testing,

how is that possible?

Easy enough to see its being tested on a
machine and not driving around the streets.

On 28/09/15 01:54, wrote:
On Sunday, 27 September 2015 23:04:15 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The cheatware detects when a motor undergoes emissions testing, and then

how is that possible?

One report said that it detected the steering wasn't being used when the
car was being "driven" on a rolling road test rig to check emissions.

--

Jeff

On 28/09/2015 07:25, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 28/09/15 01:54, wrote:
On Sunday, 27 September 2015 23:04:15 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

The cheatware detects when a motor undergoes emissions testing, and then

how is that possible?

One report said that it detected the steering wasn't being used when the
car was being "driven" on a rolling road test rig to check emissions.


Another suggested the rear wheels were stationary during tests. Or
perhaps the handbrake was on. Kind of rules out 4WD . . .

--
Cheers, Rob

On 28/09/2015 07:25, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 28/09/15 01:54, wrote:
On Sunday, 27 September 2015 23:04:15 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

The cheatware detects when a motor undergoes emissions testing, and then

how is that possible?

One report said that it detected the steering wasn't being used when the
car was being "driven" on a rolling road test rig to check emissions.

I have seen a suggestion that there's a "test" mode that on the surface
disables ESP etc for rolling road testing, but I've never seen any
evidence of this beyond hearsay. Even if there isn't, if it's a 2WD car,
pretty easy to tell if it is on a rolling road via the ABS sensors, and
even if 4WD, as has been suggested elsewhere in this thread, via the
steering angle sensor.

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 17:54:50 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

The cheatware detects when a motor undergoes emissions testing,
and
then

how is that possible?

As others have said by some physical anomally that wouldn't occur in
the real world or by the "brain" knowing what the testing profile is.
ie stationary at idle for 15 seconds, 1st gear to 10 mph in 4 second
2nd gear to 20 mph over 3 seconds, 3rd to 30 mph in 3 seconds, hold
for 30 secs, up to 40 in 5, up to 4th hold for etc ....

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 08:02:58 +0100, Chris Bartram
wrote:

On 28/09/2015 07:25, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 28/09/15 01:54, wrote:
On Sunday, 27 September 2015 23:04:15 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

The cheatware detects when a motor undergoes emissions testing, and then

how is that possible?

One report said that it detected the steering wasn't being used when the
car was being "driven" on a rolling road test rig to check emissions.

I have seen a suggestion that there's a "test" mode that on the surface
disables ESP etc for rolling road testing, but I've never seen any
evidence of this beyond hearsay. Even if there isn't, if it's a 2WD car,
pretty easy to tell if it is on a rolling road via the ABS sensors, and
even if 4WD, as has been suggested elsewhere in this thread, via the
steering angle sensor.

Nowadays design engineers can use miniature sensors to monitor
practically anything on a vehicle. The chips are tiny and are always
getting smaller. I should think it's a doddle to rig the system, but
what I cannot get my head around is, how on earth did VW ever think it
would get away with the scam?

MM

On 28/09/15 01:54, wrote:
On Sunday, 27 September 2015 23:04:15 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The cheatware detects when a motor undergoes emissions testing, and then

how is that possible?

Many things are unique about a rolling road, like one set of wheels
going round and round the the brake on the other set, then the steering
is fixed straight ahead...

--
Global warming is the new Margaret Thatcher. There is no ill in the
world it's not directly responsible for.

What I could never get a simple answer on though is this. If the management
was used in this so called low emission mode all the time, just how much
performance would you loose?
I am beginning to think that this is probably because no engine ever made
could pass the emissions standard on real life conditions of driving no
matter what you did. any standard that is not achievable is basically
pointless. What should be done is that a range of emissions under the
different conditions needs to be given and its up to the purchaser what they
decide to buy. and of course its up the regulators to decide on which list
they will support with their tax schemes.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
Remember, if you don't like where I post
or what I say, you don't have to
read my posts! :-)
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
"Volkswagen was reportedly warned about rigging emissions tests on its
vehicles years ago, not only by one of its suppliers but also the German
car giant's own engineers.

According to the Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung newspaper, VW's
technicians flagged up concerns about the engine management software the
company was using in its motors back in 2011.

It was also reported today that VW had been cautioned eight years ago not
to rig the tests by its software supplier Bosch. According to Bild am
Sonntag, Bosch had written to VW in 2007.

The cheatware detects when a motor undergoes emissions testing, and then
fudges the engine output to pass the examination by cutting performance to
meet emissions standards for nitrogen oxide."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09...e_ye ars_ago/

--
Global warming is the new Margaret Thatcher. There is no ill in the world
it's not directly responsible for.

One assumes that it can detect the gadget being plugged in and also anything
attached to the exhaust.
Another interesting question.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
Remember, if you don't like where I post
or what I say, you don't have to
read my posts! :-)
wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 27 September 2015 23:04:15 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

The cheatware detects when a motor undergoes emissions testing, and then

how is that possible?

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 28/09/15 01:54, wrote:
On Sunday, 27 September 2015 23:04:15 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

The cheatware detects when a motor undergoes emissions testing, and then

how is that possible?

Many things are unique about a rolling road, like one set of wheels going
round and round the the brake on the other set, then the steering is fixed
straight ahead...

That wouldn't work for me, my tester checks exhaust emissions before hitting
the rolling road.

I'd have thought that this kind of mode would be called test mode and used
by the manufacturer to check nothing was out of alignment. The fact that it
also is used in official testing seems to be a bit of a silly thing to
suggest.

No I'm tending toward thinking that the folk designing the test have at
best been naive about actually what has to be tested, ie in a real
situation. The fact that its nominal test mode kicks in could have been
argueed as a diagnostic mode after all. I juust wonder why VW could not get
decent spin doctors instead of owning up to deliberate fraud.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
Remember, if you don't like where I post
or what I say, you don't have to
read my posts! :-)
"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
On 28/09/15 01:54, wrote:
On Sunday, 27 September 2015 23:04:15 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

The cheatware detects when a motor undergoes emissions testing, and then

how is that possible?

One report said that it detected the steering wasn't being used when the
car was being "driven" on a rolling road test rig to check emissions.

--

Jeff

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 17:54:50 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

The cheatware detects when a motor undergoes emissions testing,
and
then

how is that possible?

As others have said by some physical anomally that wouldn't occur in
the real world or by the "brain" knowing what the testing profile is.
ie stationary at idle for 15 seconds, 1st gear to 10 mph in 4 second
2nd gear to 20 mph over 3 seconds, 3rd to 30 mph in 3 seconds, hold
for 30 secs, up to 40 in 5, up to 4th hold for etc ....

That second possibility wouldn't work. By the time its noticed that
pattern, it's too late to run the engine so that the emissions would
be good enough to satisfy the test.

"MM" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 08:02:58 +0100, Chris Bartram
wrote:

On 28/09/2015 07:25, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 28/09/15 01:54, wrote:
On Sunday, 27 September 2015 23:04:15 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

The cheatware detects when a motor undergoes emissions testing, and
then

how is that possible?

One report said that it detected the steering wasn't being used when the
car was being "driven" on a rolling road test rig to check emissions.

I have seen a suggestion that there's a "test" mode that on the surface
disables ESP etc for rolling road testing, but I've never seen any
evidence of this beyond hearsay. Even if there isn't, if it's a 2WD car,
pretty easy to tell if it is on a rolling road via the ABS sensors, and
even if 4WD, as has been suggested elsewhere in this thread, via the
steering angle sensor.

Nowadays design engineers can use miniature sensors to monitor
practically anything on a vehicle. The chips are tiny and are always
getting smaller. I should think it's a doddle to rig the system, but
what I cannot get my head around is, how on earth did VW ever
think it would get away with the scam?

They clearly did for years.

It will be interesting to see if anyone else has done too.

On 28/09/2015 10:00, Brian-Gaff wrote:
I'd have thought that this kind of mode would be called test mode and used
by the manufacturer to check nothing was out of alignment. The fact that it
also is used in official testing seems to be a bit of a silly thing to
suggest.

That does depend on the wording of the test requirements. It could be
the car conformed to the letter to the law rather than in the spirit of
the law.

On 28/09/2015 10:00, bm wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 28/09/15 01:54, wrote:
On Sunday, 27 September 2015 23:04:15 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

The cheatware detects when a motor undergoes emissions testing, and then

how is that possible?

Many things are unique about a rolling road, like one set of wheels going
round and round the the brake on the other set, then the steering is fixed
straight ahead...

That wouldn't work for me, my tester checks exhaust emissions before hitting
the rolling road.

The MOT doesn't test CO and NOx, yet!

"Brian-Gaff" wrote in message
...
I'd have thought that this kind of mode would be called test mode and used
by the manufacturer to check nothing was out of alignment. The fact that
it also is used in official testing seems to be a bit of a silly thing to
suggest.

No I'm tending toward thinking that the folk designing the test have at
best been naive about actually what has to be tested, ie in a real
situation. The fact that its nominal test mode kicks in could have been
argueed as a diagnostic mode after all. I juust wonder why VW could not
get decent spin doctors instead of owning up to deliberate fraud.

I bet the reason they owned up is because they knew
it was a deliberate fraud that they got caught doing.

They were apparently warned about it years ago more than
once and chose to do nothing about it until they got caught.

"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
On 28/09/15 01:54, wrote:
On Sunday, 27 September 2015 23:04:15 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

The cheatware detects when a motor undergoes emissions testing, and
then

how is that possible?

One report said that it detected the steering wasn't being used when the
car was being "driven" on a rolling road test rig to check emissions.

--

Jeff

On 28/09/2015 09:55, Brian-Gaff wrote:
What I could never get a simple answer on though is this. If the management
was used in this so called low emission mode all the time, just how much
performance would you loose?
I am beginning to think that this is probably because no engine ever made
could pass the emissions standard on real life conditions of driving no
matter what you did. any standard that is not achievable is basically
pointless.

Yet other well known German cars in the same tests maintained low
emissions whilst being driven, though that could be because the engine
was laboured less.


What should be done is that a range of emissions under the
different conditions needs to be given and its up to the purchaser what they
decide to buy. and of course its up the regulators to decide on which list
they will support with their tax schemes.
Brian

Or where you can fit after-market ECUs with a switch for test mode :-)

On 28/09/15 10:00, bm wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 28/09/15 01:54, wrote:
On Sunday, 27 September 2015 23:04:15 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

The cheatware detects when a motor undergoes emissions testing, and then

how is that possible?

Many things are unique about a rolling road, like one set of wheels going
round and round the the brake on the other set, then the steering is fixed
straight ahead...

That wouldn't work for me, my tester checks exhaust emissions before hitting
the rolling road.


Different test to this one

That's standard idle test normally. What this test was was fuel economy
and NOx emissions on a 'standard representative test'


--
Global warming is the new Margaret Thatcher. There is no ill in the
world it's not directly responsible for.

In message , Rod Speed
writes

It will be interesting to see if anyone else has done too.

Indeed. It has been suggested that the tests are such that no vehicle
could pass, in real world conditions. That then begs the question, how
do non VWs pass? Are all diesel cars cheating the tests, one way or
another?

--
Graeme

On 28/09/15 10:00, Brian-Gaff wrote:
No I'm tending toward thinking that the folk designing the test have at
best been naive about actually what has to be tested, ie in a real
situation.

Exactly. As naive as the folks who think that VW didn't have a duty to
its shareholders to deliver usable cars that meet official tests.
Irrespective of hpow they did it.

Like the banking crisis, we will now find that all car manufacturers
have been doing this, to a greater or lesser extent.

Its so reminiscent of emissions and renewable energy, where all manner
of legislation has been used, and yet when actually measured, nations
like Germany and Denmark score worse on overall emissions than most others.

And all the thermometers show there isn't any global warming at the moment.

Policy designed to benefit large companies and win elections, that
doesn't in practice achieve its stated aims, is the hallmark of the sort
of BS epitomised by the EU and the US lefty green bureaucracies.

Who needs evidence based policies when all the lefty****s want is
ideological attacks on stuff that works, and to feel empowered and
morally superior?


--
Global warming is the new Margaret Thatcher. There is no ill in the
world it's not directly responsible for.

On 28/09/15 10:36, Fredxxx wrote:
On 28/09/2015 10:00, bm wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 28/09/15 01:54, wrote:
On Sunday, 27 September 2015 23:04:15 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

The cheatware detects when a motor undergoes emissions testing, and
then

how is that possible?

Many things are unique about a rolling road, like one set of wheels
going
round and round the the brake on the other set, then the steering is
fixed
straight ahead...

That wouldn't work for me, my tester checks exhaust emissions before
hitting
the rolling road.

The MOT doesn't test CO and NOx, yet!

Does test CO...IIRC


--
Global warming is the new Margaret Thatcher. There is no ill in the
world it's not directly responsible for.

On 28/09/2015 10:48, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 28/09/15 10:36, Fredxxx wrote:
On 28/09/2015 10:00, bm wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 28/09/15 01:54, wrote:
On Sunday, 27 September 2015 23:04:15 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

The cheatware detects when a motor undergoes emissions testing, and
then

how is that possible?

Many things are unique about a rolling road, like one set of wheels
going
round and round the the brake on the other set, then the steering is
fixed
straight ahead...

That wouldn't work for me, my tester checks exhaust emissions before
hitting
the rolling road.

The MOT doesn't test CO and NOx, yet!

Does test CO...IIRC

For diesels??

In article . com,
bm wrote:
Many things are unique about a rolling road, like one set of wheels
going round and round the the brake on the other set, then the
steering is fixed straight ahead...

That wouldn't work for me, my tester checks exhaust emissions before
hitting the rolling road.

What - he takes the vehicle out for a full speed blast on the road
connected to testing equipment?

--
*Elephants are the only mammals that can't jump *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 28/09/15 10:36, Fredxxx wrote:
On 28/09/2015 10:00, bm wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 28/09/15 01:54, wrote:
On Sunday, 27 September 2015 23:04:15 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

The cheatware detects when a motor undergoes emissions testing, and
then

how is that possible?

Many things are unique about a rolling road, like one set of wheels
going
round and round the the brake on the other set, then the steering is
fixed
straight ahead...

That wouldn't work for me, my tester checks exhaust emissions before
hitting
the rolling road.

The MOT doesn't test CO and NOx, yet!

Does test CO...IIRC

Looking at the info that I've received with each MOT pass certificate, there
are only "smokemeter" opacity measurements of around 0.2-0.3 in units of
1/m, where the limit is 3.0. Maybe other figures are tested but aren't
included in the paperwork that the garage gives me.

I'm sure when I had my petrol cars tested there were figures for CO2 and CO
in ppm.

On 28/09/15 10:53, Fredxxx wrote:
On 28/09/2015 10:48, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 28/09/15 10:36, Fredxxx wrote:
On 28/09/2015 10:00, bm wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 28/09/15 01:54, wrote:
On Sunday, 27 September 2015 23:04:15 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

The cheatware detects when a motor undergoes emissions testing, and
then

how is that possible?

Many things are unique about a rolling road, like one set of wheels
going
round and round the the brake on the other set, then the steering is
fixed
straight ahead...

That wouldn't work for me, my tester checks exhaust emissions before
hitting
the rolling road.

The MOT doesn't test CO and NOx, yet!

Does test CO...IIRC

For diesels??

Yes I think so.

Hmm. It seems only a visual smoke test is required. Odd. Sibce CO and
hydrocarbon sensors exist at all MOT stations



--
Global warming is the new Margaret Thatcher. There is no ill in the
world it's not directly responsible for.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
bm wrote:
Many things are unique about a rolling road, like one set of wheels
going round and round the the brake on the other set, then the
steering is fixed straight ahead...

That wouldn't work for me, my tester checks exhaust emissions before
hitting the rolling road.

What - he takes the vehicle out for a full speed blast on the road
connected to testing equipment?

He sets a hot engine to 2Krpm and his puter does the rest. He doesn't use
the OBD port. Then moves to the rolling road to test the brakes only. Then
steering linkages, suspension springs, brake pipes, etc. Bulbs.
That's it

On 28/09/2015 11:01, NY wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 28/09/15 10:36, Fredxxx wrote:
On 28/09/2015 10:00, bm wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 28/09/15 01:54, wrote:
On Sunday, 27 September 2015 23:04:15 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

The cheatware detects when a motor undergoes emissions testing, and
then

how is that possible?

Many things are unique about a rolling road, like one set of wheels
going
round and round the the brake on the other set, then the steering is
fixed
straight ahead...

That wouldn't work for me, my tester checks exhaust emissions before
hitting
the rolling road.

The MOT doesn't test CO and NOx, yet!

Does test CO...IIRC

Looking at the info that I've received with each MOT pass certificate,
there are only "smokemeter" opacity measurements of around 0.2-0.3 in
units of 1/m, where the limit is 3.0. Maybe other figures are tested but
aren't included in the paperwork that the garage gives me.

CO and NOx levels are not measure at an MOT station for the diesel test.
As you say, it's just a calibrated smoke test.

I'm sure when I had my petrol cars tested there were figures for CO2 and
CO in ppm.

Petrols are tested for CO and HCs at idle and raised (cruising) revs.

On 28/09/2015 11:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 28/09/15 10:53, Fredxxx wrote:
On 28/09/2015 10:48, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 28/09/15 10:36, Fredxxx wrote:
On 28/09/2015 10:00, bm wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 28/09/15 01:54, wrote:
On Sunday, 27 September 2015 23:04:15 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

The cheatware detects when a motor undergoes emissions testing, and
then

how is that possible?

Many things are unique about a rolling road, like one set of wheels
going
round and round the the brake on the other set, then the steering is
fixed
straight ahead...

That wouldn't work for me, my tester checks exhaust emissions before
hitting
the rolling road.

The MOT doesn't test CO and NOx, yet!

Does test CO...IIRC

For diesels??

Yes I think so.

Hmm. It seems only a visual smoke test is required. Odd. Sibce CO and
hydrocarbon sensors exist at all MOT stations

Their CO and HCs sensors are not used for diesel emission testing.

On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 19:30:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"MM" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 08:02:58 +0100, Chris Bartram
wrote:

On 28/09/2015 07:25, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 28/09/15 01:54, wrote:
On Sunday, 27 September 2015 23:04:15 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

The cheatware detects when a motor undergoes emissions testing, and
then

how is that possible?

One report said that it detected the steering wasn't being used when the
car was being "driven" on a rolling road test rig to check emissions.

I have seen a suggestion that there's a "test" mode that on the surface
disables ESP etc for rolling road testing, but I've never seen any
evidence of this beyond hearsay. Even if there isn't, if it's a 2WD car,
pretty easy to tell if it is on a rolling road via the ABS sensors, and
even if 4WD, as has been suggested elsewhere in this thread, via the
steering angle sensor.

Nowadays design engineers can use miniature sensors to monitor
practically anything on a vehicle. The chips are tiny and are always
getting smaller. I should think it's a doddle to rig the system, but
what I cannot get my head around is, how on earth did VW ever
think it would get away with the scam?

They clearly did for years.

It will be interesting to see if anyone else has done too.

Wouldn't surprise me if they've all been doing it, including my Suzuki
Alto, at present zero rated for RFL.

MM

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
It was also reported today that VW had been cautioned eight years ago
not to rig the tests by its software supplier Bosch. According to Bild
am Sonntag, Bosch had written to VW in 2007.

Yes - I did wonder about this. Bosch (and others) generally supply much of
the injection, and I'd guess would also be involved with writing the
software. Since they will be supplying much the same to other makers too.
So - again a guess - is they are the author of the software involved. So
wonder if it was hacked by VW?

--
*The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The MOT doesn't test CO and NOx, yet!

Does test CO...IIRC

Don't have a diesel, but a petrol MOT gives (or once did) you the standard
'four gas' readout from the testing machine.

CO, CO2, NOX and hydrocarbons, IIRC, as percentages. Generally, if the CO
is within spec, the others will be too.

--
*Reality is a crutch for people who can't handle drugs.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 28/09/2015 12:37, MM wrote:
On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 19:30:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"MM" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 08:02:58 +0100, Chris Bartram
wrote:

On 28/09/2015 07:25, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 28/09/15 01:54, wrote:
On Sunday, 27 September 2015 23:04:15 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

The cheatware detects when a motor undergoes emissions testing, and
then

how is that possible?

One report said that it detected the steering wasn't being used when the
car was being "driven" on a rolling road test rig to check emissions.

I have seen a suggestion that there's a "test" mode that on the surface
disables ESP etc for rolling road testing, but I've never seen any
evidence of this beyond hearsay. Even if there isn't, if it's a 2WD car,
pretty easy to tell if it is on a rolling road via the ABS sensors, and
even if 4WD, as has been suggested elsewhere in this thread, via the
steering angle sensor.

Nowadays design engineers can use miniature sensors to monitor
practically anything on a vehicle. The chips are tiny and are always
getting smaller. I should think it's a doddle to rig the system, but
what I cannot get my head around is, how on earth did VW ever
think it would get away with the scam?

They clearly did for years.

It will be interesting to see if anyone else has done too.

Wouldn't surprise me if they've all been doing it, including my Suzuki
Alto, at present zero rated for RFL.

MM


I think the way the legislators have introduced difficult to achieve
emission targets and then not properly checked that vehicles actually
conform to these targets in a sensible way is a large part of the problem.

VW's response to this situation might now be considered ill judged, but
their alternative might have been not to sell any vehicles.


--
Michael Chare

On Monday, September 28, 2015 at 12:57:13 PM UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
It was also reported today that VW had been cautioned eight years ago
not to rig the tests by its software supplier Bosch. According to Bild
am Sonntag, Bosch had written to VW in 2007.

Yes - I did wonder about this. Bosch (and others) generally supply much of
the injection, and I'd guess would also be involved with writing the
software. Since they will be supplying much the same to other makers too.
So - again a guess - is they are the author of the software involved. So
wonder if it was hacked by VW?

--
*The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

What I would like to know is the difference between the emissions before the tests were brought in and the emissions reported by the dodgy software and the emissions level claimed to be achieved. Are we talking huge differences here ?

Its not that long since we had to listen to the diesel fan boys about how cleamn diesel was compare to petrol

On 28/09/15 13:16, fred wrote:
On Monday, September 28, 2015 at 12:57:13 PM UTC+1, Dave Plowman
(News) wrote:
In article , The Natural
Philosopher wrote:
It was also reported today that VW had been cautioned eight years
ago not to rig the tests by its software supplier Bosch.
According to Bild am Sonntag, Bosch had written to VW in 2007.

Yes - I did wonder about this. Bosch (and others) generally supply
much of the injection, and I'd guess would also be involved with
writing the software. Since they will be supplying much the same to
other makers too. So - again a guess - is they are the author of
the software involved. So wonder if it was hacked by VW?

-- *The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard *

Dave Plowman London SW To
e-mail, change noise into sound.

What I would like to know is the difference between the emissions
before the tests were brought in and the emissions reported by the
dodgy software and the emissions level claimed to be achieved. Are we
talking huge differences here ?

Its not that long since we had to listen to the diesel fan boys about
how cleamn diesel was compare to petrol

Well in terms of hydrocarbon emissions it is..

Just not NOx:-)


--
Global warming is the new Margaret Thatcher. There is no ill in the
world it's not directly responsible for.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
It was also reported today that VW had been cautioned eight years ago
not to rig the tests by its software supplier Bosch. According to Bild
am Sonntag, Bosch had written to VW in 2007.

Yes - I did wonder about this. Bosch (and others) generally supply much of
the injection, and I'd guess would also be involved with writing the
software. Since they will be supplying much the same to other makers too.
So - again a guess - is they are the author of the software involved. So
wonder if it was hacked by VW?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/car-manufacturers/volkswagen/11894672/Volkswagen-crisis-Car-giant-warned-against-emissions-rigging-eight-years-ago.html

"Bosch, the German engineering firm, is said to have explained in
a memo to VW that use of the software to manipulate results would
be against the law.

A 2007 letter warned against using the software during regular
operation, according to an internal VW investigation seen by
German weekly Bild am Sonntag.

Bosch is understood to have delivered the software to Volkswagen
on the basis that it was test purposes and not for normal driving
mode."

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

In article ,
fred wrote:
What I would like to know is the difference between the emissions before
the tests were brought in and the emissions reported by the dodgy
software and the emissions level claimed to be achieved. Are we talking
huge differences here ?

Yes - I've read reports of it being 40x as much.

Its not that long since we had to listen to the diesel fan boys about
how cleamn diesel was compare to petrol

It was always bollox - except for CO2. A petrol engine with a cat. in good
tune actually cleans up urban air in therms of vehicle emissions. Except
obviously for CO2.

--
*Why 'that tie suits you' but 'those shoes suit you'?*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Chris J Dixon wrote:
A 2007 letter warned against using the software during regular
operation, according to an internal VW investigation seen by
German weekly Bild am Sonntag.

Bosch is understood to have delivered the software to Volkswagen
on the basis that it was test purposes and not for normal driving
mode."

Bit like us supplying arms to the Middle east and asking that they aren't
used to kill people. ;-)

--
*They told me I had type-A blood, but it was a Type-O.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
There was a rant about this in the Times today. Well, more generally
about how the EU regs are arranged to suit looney greens and big
business too, while actually costing lives.

Very clever one that - being able to satisfy both ends of the spectrum at
one stroke. Seems they can't be so stupid as most on here think.

--
*Why is a boxing ring square?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.