Got a no-name ATX 600watt PS which is dead. Won't power up at all.

No obvious bulging caps etc, but the two large ones are odd.

Claim to be 680uF 200v 85C, but both measure at 200uF with an ESR of 0.17
on my component tester.

Thinking that strange checked the capacity using my Fluke, and that too
said 200 uF.

Anyone seen anything like this?

--
*Corduroy pillows are making headlines.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

En el artículo , Dave Plowman (News)
escribió:

Got a no-name ATX 600watt PS which is dead. Won't power up at all.

No obvious bulging caps etc, but the two large ones are odd.

Claim to be 680uF 200v 85C, but both measure at 200uF with an ESR of 0.17
on my component tester.

You're testing them in-circuit, so results are going to be meaningless.

Is the mains fuse blown? If it's completely blackened, I'd suspect the
bridge rectifier or the chopper transistor, especially with the out-of-
kilter readings you're getting from the mains reservoir caps.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

In article ,
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
Got a no-name ATX 600watt PS which is dead. Won't power up at all.

No obvious bulging caps etc, but the two large ones are odd.

Claim to be 680uF 200v 85C, but both measure at 200uF with an ESR of
0.17 on my component tester.

You're testing them in-circuit, so results are going to be meaningless.

No I'm not. Give me some credit.

Is the mains fuse blown?

No.

If it's completely blackened, I'd suspect the
bridge rectifier or the chopper transistor, especially with the out-of-
kilter readings you're getting from the mains reservoir caps.

--
*I must always remember that I'm unique, just like everyone else. *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

En el artículo , Dave Plowman (News)
escribió:

No I'm not.

What make are they? May be one of the usual culprits (Teapo, CapXon,
Rulycon (sic), Luxon, etc.) that make crappy or fake product.

It's very unusual for mains reservoir caps to go wrong, usually it's the
ones on the output side. That's why I suggested you may be testing in-
circuit.

Is the mains fuse blown?

No.

Time to start probing voltages on the primary side then, starting by
seeing if there's about 350V dc on the reservoir. There should be a
bleed resistor to dissipate any charge on these caps but it's not always
present or functional on cheap ****e PSUs and be aware, those caps
really can bite (I know you know this, it's for the benefit of anyone
else reading.)

If it is truly is completely dead (not even trying to start - no ticking
sounds, etc.) could be something as simple as a faulty switch or a dry
joint where the mains load from the switch connects to the board or on
the bridge.

If all that looks ok, trace the startup feed to the PWM IC that controls
the chopper transistor. That is usually a high value resistor from one
side of the rectified supply that can go open. There will be am
associated zener to limit the voltage, check that's not shorted.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
Got a no-name ATX 600watt PS which is dead. Won't power up at all.

No obvious bulging caps etc, but the two large ones are odd.

Claim to be 680uF 200v 85C, but both measure at 200uF with an ESR of 0.17
on my component tester.

Thinking that strange checked the capacity using my Fluke, and that too
said 200 uF.

Anyone seen anything like this?

Not uncommon, but low capacitance doesn't normally prevent the PSU
starting up - it just knocks its effective power rating down considerably
(might fail if the load is high). High ESR would be a more serious problem.
(If it's a wide input voltage rating without a selection switch, then
the high capacitance is only required when operating at the low end of
the range anyway.)

The capacitor which stops it from starting up is a small low voltage one
on the hot side which smooths the DC supply for the oscillator and control
circuit.

Obviously, other things like blown FETs are a possibility too (usually
take the fuse with them, and sometimes the bridge rectifier).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Not going to spend much time on this since it's my brother's PC. Sent it
down here as his local place said it would cost more to fix than it was
worth.

It's working fine on a spare PS here - but would like to fit a new one.
Any recommendations as to which make to buy for best value? And where from?

--
*Why are they called apartments, when they're all stuck together? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
Not going to spend much time on this since it's my brother's PC. Sent it
down here as his local place said it would cost more to fix than it was
worth.

It's working fine on a spare PS here - but would like to fit a new one.
Any recommendations as to which make to buy for best value? And where
from?

I've been very impressed with the Corsair CX430M PSU which I bought to
replace the unbranded one which was supplied with my PC and which failed
during a thunderstorm despite a surge protector. It has a very large
slow-revving fan (rather than a smaller, faster-revving one) which means
there's less fan noise.

On 07/08/2015 11:33, NY wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
Not going to spend much time on this since it's my brother's PC. Sent it
down here as his local place said it would cost more to fix than it was
worth.

It's working fine on a spare PS here - but would like to fit a new one.
Any recommendations as to which make to buy for best value? And where
from?

I've been very impressed with the Corsair CX430M PSU which I bought to
replace the unbranded one which was supplied with my PC and which failed
during a thunderstorm despite a surge protector. It has a very large
slow-revving fan (rather than a smaller, faster-revving one) which means
there's less fan noise.

If it's an old PC I'd just take a moment to check the PSU leads will fit
the motherboard etc.

--
Cheers, Rob

On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 12:05:21 +0100, RJH wrote:

On 07/08/2015 11:33, NY wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
Not going to spend much time on this since it's my brother's PC. Sent
it down here as his local place said it would cost more to fix than it
was worth.

It's working fine on a spare PS here - but would like to fit a new
one. Any recommendations as to which make to buy for best value? And
where from?

I've been very impressed with the Corsair CX430M PSU which I bought to
replace the unbranded one which was supplied with my PC and which
failed during a thunderstorm despite a surge protector. It has a very
large slow-revving fan (rather than a smaller, faster-revving one)
which means there's less fan noise.

If it's an old PC I'd just take a moment to check the PSU leads will fit
the motherboard etc.

The CX430M has a 20/24 single plug, also an 8/4 pin CPU connector. The
other cables are both SATA and the old 4 pin Molex. And the 'floppy'
connector.

In article ,
RJH wrote:
I've been very impressed with the Corsair CX430M PSU which I bought to
replace the unbranded one which was supplied with my PC and which
failed during a thunderstorm despite a surge protector. It has a very
large slow-revving fan (rather than a smaller, faster-revving one)
which means there's less fan noise.

If it's an old PC I'd just take a moment to check the PSU leads will fit
the motherboard etc.

Not that old. All the drives are SATA.

--
*And the cardiologist' s diet: - If it tastes good spit it out.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 11:33:52 +0100, NY wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
Not going to spend much time on this since it's my brother's PC. Sent
it down here as his local place said it would cost more to fix than it
was worth.

It's working fine on a spare PS here - but would like to fit a new one.
Any recommendations as to which make to buy for best value? And where
from?

I've been very impressed with the Corsair CX430M PSU which I bought to
replace the unbranded one which was supplied with my PC and which failed
during a thunderstorm despite a surge protector. It has a very large
slow-revving fan (rather than a smaller, faster-revving one) which means
there's less fan noise.

I was going to suggest this. I have had 6 of them running 24/7 for over
year! They are a bit more pricey, and the OP mentioned 'value'. They are
good value but slightly more than the average in price. Get the CX430 if
not bothered about the modular cable setup, although there is little
difference in price.

They are quiet, and they are 80+ Bronze rated so he may save a bit in
electricity to make up for the slightly higher cost!

On 07/08/2015 11:33 AM, NY wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
Not going to spend much time on this since it's my brother's PC. Sent it
down here as his local place said it would cost more to fix than it was
worth.

It's working fine on a spare PS here - but would like to fit a new one.
Any recommendations as to which make to buy for best value? And where
from?

I've been very impressed with the Corsair CX430M PSU which I bought to
replace the unbranded one which was supplied with my PC and which failed
during a thunderstorm despite a surge protector. It has a very large
slow-revving fan (rather than a smaller, faster-revving one) which means
there's less fan noise.


I did exactly the same. I finally took the advice, that more
knowledgeable people than I, have been giving me for years while I
knocked-up my self builds.

I finally made the change when hard drives, one only a week old, went
dead. Totally! A lot of searching brought home the fact that the PSU is
capable of producing all the problems I was having over that year.

So, I too went for a Corsair after being advised that it was cheaper
than the named one I asked for; that it was of equal build and, it
carried a longer guarantee. The difference in performance was obvious
from the start. And, no heat worth mentioning from the area of the PS.

I won't 'afford' buying a no-namer' again.


....Ray.


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On 06/08/2015 19:40, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Got a no-name ATX 600watt PS which is dead. Won't power up at all.

No obvious bulging caps etc, but the two large ones are odd.

Claim to be 680uF 200v 85C, but both measure at 200uF with an ESR of 0.17
on my component tester.

Thinking that strange checked the capacity using my Fluke, and that too
said 200 uF.

Anyone seen anything like this?

http://www.discovercircuits.com/dc-m...Capacitor1.jpg

Cheers
--
Syd

Spoke to soon. With the replacement PS I had lying around 350w rather than
the faulty one which was 600w, it did fire up.

Some time later decided to check it out properly with all the peripherals
connected. And it wouldn't power up. Only difference was the LED on the
motherboard was on meaning it was getting the standby supply, unlike with
the broken one.

So it looks like a motherboard fault which may have been the cause of the
original PS failing?

Disconnected everything I could - HDs, DVD and video card, but still
wouldn't power up. Obviously, checked the switch.

It's an Asus MB. Have had one of those fail before.

--
*Rehab is for quitters

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus
Spoke to soon. With the replacement PS I had lying around 350w rather than
the faulty one which was 600w, it did fire up.

Some time later decided to check it out properly with all the peripherals
connected. And it wouldn't power up. Only difference was the LED on the
motherboard was on meaning it was getting the standby supply, unlike with
the broken one.

So it looks like a motherboard fault which may have been the cause of the
original PS failing?

Disconnected everything I could - HDs, DVD and video card, but still
wouldn't power up. Obviously, checked the switch.

It's an Asus MB. Have had one of those fail before.


Quite possibly bu^^ered caps on the motherboard, but if its a few years
old then in all not worth repairing as much as we may like to renovate
something but no circuits or service info will be around;(.

That is of course that the MB is OK with its new power supply, some
connections are/may be a shade different...
--
Tony Sayer

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
Quite possibly bu^^ered caps on the motherboard, but if its a few years
old then in all not worth repairing as much as we may like to renovate
something but no circuits or service info will be around;(.

That is of course that the MB is OK with its new power supply, some
connections are/may be a shade different...

Not really. Very few variations with ATX supplies.

The processor is an AMD 3500+ 2.21G type, so not exactly new.

Not sure If I should go for a new board and processor, or look for a used
one on Ebay.

--
*What am I? Flypaper for freaks!?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
That is of course that the MB is OK with its new power supply, some
connections are/may be a shade different...

Not really. Very few variations with ATX supplies.

Not really. There a

The additional motherboard power plug beyond the 24w (either 4w or 8w 'EPS
12v)
PCI Express power for your GPU (etc) - looks like the EPS 12v but is
different. Some GPUs need 2x connectors.
SATA power (which you can bodge from 4w 'PATA power' with an adaptor if
necessary)

It's quite easy to get caught out by not having one or the other if you're
using an old PSU in a new machine - less of a problem going the other way.
You may find there aren't enough PATA power connections since they're mostly
SATA power on new PSUs.

The processor is an AMD 3500+ 2.21G type, so not exactly new.

Not sure If I should go for a new board and processor, or look for a used
one on Ebay.

Probably means new board, processor and RAM if you go that way. Possibly
PATA-SATA adaptors too.

Theo

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
Quite possibly bu^^ered caps on the motherboard, but if its a few years
old then in all not worth repairing as much as we may like to renovate
something but no circuits or service info will be around;(.

That is of course that the MB is OK with its new power supply, some
connections are/may be a shade different...

Not really. Very few variations with ATX supplies.

The processor is an AMD 3500+ 2.21G type, so not exactly new.

Not sure If I should go for a new board and processor, or look for a used
one on Ebay.

New board will mean new memory as well, so ebay if a requirement to keep
the price down I guess. Though I would look to use this as a time to
upgrade a bit.

re PSUs, I've got an Antec Eathwatts 380 (or something like that, can't
remember exactly the model) in this box here. Been running quite happily
and quietly for a number of years
--
Chris French

On 07/08/2015 4:02 PM, Syd Rumpo wrote:
On 06/08/2015 19:40, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Got a no-name ATX 600watt PS which is dead. Won't power up at all.

No obvious bulging caps etc, but the two large ones are odd.

Claim to be 680uF 200v 85C, but both measure at 200uF with an ESR of 0.17
on my component tester.

Thinking that strange checked the capacity using my Fluke, and that too
said 200 uF.

Anyone seen anything like this?

http://www.discovercircuits.com/dc-m...Capacitor1.jpg

Cheers


Wow! How the hell do they get away with that?

....Ray.

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RayL12 wrote:

Syd Rumpo wrote:

http://www.discovercircuits.com/dc-m...Capacitor1.jpg

Wow! How the hell do they get away with that?

I don't suppose they do any more, IIRC that photo dates to a similar
time as the infamous BP6 motherboard capacitors problem, so ~15 years ago.

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
RayL12 wrote:

Syd Rumpo wrote:

http://www.discovercircuits.com/dc-m...Capacitor1.jpg

Wow! How the hell do they get away with that?

I don't suppose they do any more, IIRC that photo dates to a similar
time as the infamous BP6 motherboard capacitors problem, so ~15 years
ago.

Wouldn't have thought it worth the bother on the relatively low value
(680uF) in question. And can't see any maker fitting such a thing. More
designed to catch those who just love to 'upgrade' audio equipment.

--
*I don't work here. I'm a consultant

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

En el artículo , RayL12
escribió:

Wow! How the hell do they get away with that?

And not only is it a fake, the blue 2200uF cap inside is badged
"Rulycon", one of the well known fake brands trying to pass off as a
Rubycon.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

In article ,
Mike Tomlinson writes:
En el artículo , RayL12
escribió:

Wow! How the hell do they get away with that?

And not only is it a fake, the blue 2200uF cap inside is badged
"Rulycon", one of the well known fake brands trying to pass off as a
Rubycon.

What would be really funny would be to open the small one and find
and even smaller one inside ;-)

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

En el artículo , Andrew Gabriel
escribió:

What would be really funny would be to open the small one and find
and even smaller one inside ;-)

Like Russian dolls, but with caps :-)

also did anyone notice the voltage on the cap inside? 35V, and the outer
(black) skin on the outer can, although you can't see the voltage, would
likely have been marked up as 400V if used as a mains reservoir
capacitor in a 240V SMPSU and 200V if used in a 110V one.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

(Andrew Gabriel) writes:

In article ,
Mike Tomlinson writes:
En el artículo , RayL12
escribió:

Wow! How the hell do they get away with that?

And not only is it a fake, the blue 2200uF cap inside is badged
"Rulycon", one of the well known fake brands trying to pass off as a
Rubycon.

What would be really funny would be to open the small one and find
and even smaller one inside ;-)

So you've been weighing NiMH 'D' cells.

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ S c o t s h o m e . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

On 08/08/2015 5:20 PM, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , RayL12
escribió:

Wow! How the hell do they get away with that?

And not only is it a fake, the blue 2200uF cap inside is badged
"Rulycon", one of the well known fake brands trying to pass off as a
Rubycon.


Lol. Cheeky b*****ds. Well, if you're going to do a bad job, make it
really bad.


--
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Startpage - The PRIVATE Search Engine!

On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 4:02:02 PM UTC+1, Syd Rumpo wrote:
On 06/08/2015 19:40, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Got a no-name ATX 600watt PS which is dead. Won't power up at all.

No obvious bulging caps etc, but the two large ones are odd.

Claim to be 680uF 200v 85C, but both measure at 200uF with an ESR of 0.17
on my component tester.

Thinking that strange checked the capacity using my Fluke, and that too
said 200 uF.

Anyone seen anything like this?

http://www.discovercircuits.com/dc-m...Capacitor1.jpg

Cheers
--
Syd

Interesting - if I remember rightly the voltage rating of electrolytics has a far higher cost driver than the capacitance. Something less than linear for capacitance but a power of some number for voltage. But then when you are shaving pennies of a board price then this fraud is probably worth it to some manufacturer. But equally such a fraud should be picked up at goods-inwards -- or am I showing too much professional electronic engineering ?

My son-in-law passed me a dead HP multi printer a wee while back. I spent sometime net crawling seeing all sorts of abuse being hurled at HP, who initially I was quite sympathetic with, until I found that 6 of the electrolytics were from one of the dodgy manufacturers mentioned somewhere in this thread. Apart from the hassle in trying to get them out of the multi-layer board and get the solder cleared (had to carefully drill in the end !), the repair was 100% successful. But HP should have faced a class action for poor sub-contractor control.

On Sat, 08 Aug 2015 06:22:48 -0700, robgraham wrote:

On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 4:02:02 PM UTC+1, Syd Rumpo wrote:
On 06/08/2015 19:40, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Got a no-name ATX 600watt PS which is dead. Won't power up at all.

No obvious bulging caps etc, but the two large ones are odd.

Claim to be 680uF 200v 85C, but both measure at 200uF with an ESR of
0.17 on my component tester.

Thinking that strange checked the capacity using my Fluke, and that
too said 200 uF.

Anyone seen anything like this?

http://www.discovercircuits.com/dc-mag/Issue_4/Photos/
FakeCapacitor1.jpg

Cheers --
Syd

Interesting - if I remember rightly the voltage rating of electrolytics
has a far higher cost driver than the capacitance. Something less than
linear for capacitance but a power of some number for voltage. But
then when you are shaving pennies off a board price then this fraud is
probably worth it to some manufacturer. But equally such a fraud should
be picked up at goods-inwards -- or am I showing too much professional
electronic engineering ?

One the main advantages of rectifying and smoothing the mains voltage in
an HT module for use by the SMPSU circuitry is the much greater
effectiveness of the fullwave rectified AC supply 100/120 Hz ripple
filtering for a given physical size of smoothing capacitor for a given
power rating of PSU.


My son-in-law passed me a dead HP multi printer a wee while back. I
spent sometime net crawling seeing all sorts of abuse being hurled at
HP, who initially I was quite sympathetic with, until I found that 6 of
the electrolytics were from one of the dodgy manufacturers mentioned
somewhere in this thread. Apart from the hassle in trying to get them
out of the multi-layer board and get the solder cleared (had to
carefully drill in the end !), the repair was 100% successful. But HP
should have faced a class action for poor sub-contractor control.

As indeed Sony should have faced over their DRM inspired rootkits
distributed with their top 50 music CDs which infected thousands of
windowsXP machines several years ago.

--
Johnny B Good

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Got a no-name ATX 600watt PS which is dead. Won't power up at all.

No obvious bulging caps etc, but the two large ones are odd.

Claim to be 680uF 200v 85C, but both measure at 200uF with an ESR of 0.17
on my component tester.

Thinking that strange checked the capacity using my Fluke, and that too
said 200 uF.

Anyone seen anything like this?

Have looked at the original PS again -I've replaced it so not urgent.

And nowhere I can find sells 680uF 200v caps that are anything like the
same physical size of the originals. All much larger in diameter and would
be difficult to fit.

However, it was an OC Schottky diode. Replaced that and the PS now at
least starts up. Not tried it in a PC, though.

--
*How many roads must a man travel down before he admits he is lost?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Got a no-name ATX 600watt PS which is dead. Won't power up at all.

No obvious bulging caps etc, but the two large ones are odd.

Claim to be 680uF 200v 85C, but both measure at 200uF with an ESR of 0.17
on my component tester.

Thinking that strange checked the capacity using my Fluke, and that too
said 200 uF.

Anyone seen anything like this?

Have looked at the original PS again -I've replaced it so not urgent.

And nowhere I can find sells 680uF 200v caps that are anything like the
same physical size of the originals. All much larger in diameter and would
be difficult to fit.

Does make you wonder if the originals are just marked with the wrong value.

However, it was an OC Schottky diode. Replaced that and the PS now at
least starts up. Not tried it in a PC, though.

On 18/08/2015 12:41, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

And nowhere I can find sells 680uF 200v caps that are anything like the
same physical size of the originals. All much larger in diameter and would
be difficult to fit.


http://www.discovercircuits.com/dc-m...Capacitor1.jpg

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

alan_m wrote:

http://www.discovercircuits.com/dc-m...Capacitor1.jpg

Only once per PSU thread, please :-P

In article ,
alan_m wrote:
On 18/08/2015 12:41, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

And nowhere I can find sells 680uF 200v caps that are anything like the
same physical size of the originals. All much larger in diameter and would
be difficult to fit.


http://www.discovercircuits.com/dc-m...Capacitor1.jpg

Would you really expect a maker to fit those - and for it to have worked
ok for several years?

Oh - they are 200v caps. Not 35v, which are much more common.

--
*I don't know what your problem is, but I'll bet it's hard to pronounce

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.