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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
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#2
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
"Nightjar .me.uk" "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote in message ... On 24/05/2015 16:30, harryagain wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...oost-jobs.html This would be the Owen Patterson who is a hard line Eurosceptic, and who addressed the London Swinton Circle, an extreme right wing group that advocates mass deportations, isolationism and capital punishment. Seems like your kind of person Harry. What's wrong with any of that? |
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
On 24/05/2015 16:30, harryagain wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...oost-jobs.html This would be the Owen Patterson who is a hard line Eurosceptic, and who addressed the London Swinton Circle, an extreme right wing group that advocates mass deportations, isolationism and capital punishment. Seems like your kind of person Harry. -- Colin Bignell |
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
On 24/05/2015 16:52, harryagain wrote:
"Nightjar .me.uk" "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote in message ... On 24/05/2015 16:30, harryagain wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...oost-jobs.html This would be the Owen Patterson who is a hard line Eurosceptic, and who addressed the London Swinton Circle, an extreme right wing group that advocates mass deportations, isolationism and capital punishment. Seems like your kind of person Harry. What's wrong with any of that? Can we execute or deport people like you if we vote for them? |
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
Ah Alf Garnet without the humour then.
Brian -- From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active "Nightjar .me.uk" "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote in message ... On 24/05/2015 16:30, harryagain wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...oost-jobs.html This would be the Owen Patterson who is a hard line Eurosceptic, and who addressed the London Swinton Circle, an extreme right wing group that advocates mass deportations, isolationism and capital punishment. Seems like your kind of person Harry. -- Colin Bignell |
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
On 25/05/15 07:39, Brian-Gaff wrote:
Ah Alf Garnet without the humour then. Brian No. Not really. -- New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket. |
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
On Sun, 24 May 2015 16:30:59 +0100, harryagain wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...11625919/Owen- Paterson-leaving-European-Union-could-increase-prosperity-and-boost- jobs.html Agreed. Way better off without this increasingly burdensome millstone round our necks. |
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
In article ,
Cursitor Doom wrote: On Sun, 24 May 2015 16:30:59 +0100, harryagain wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...11625919/Owen- Paterson-leaving-European-Union-could-increase-prosperity-and-boost- jobs.html Agreed. Way better off without this increasingly burdensome millstone round our necks. You really think the EU would be foolish enough to allow the UK to leave but keep the many benefits of being in a free trade area without also the responsibities? I'd say they'd be mad to. -- *Age is a very high price to pay for maturity. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
On Mon, 25 May 2015 13:13:56 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
You really think the EU would be foolish enough to allow the UK to leave but keep the many benefits of being in a free trade area without also the responsibities? I'd say they'd be mad to. They ain't got no choice, M8. The balance of trade is WAY in our favour. Germany would go bust without having us (their biggest market by far) to export to. Same goes for the French, the Spanish, the Italians.... |
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
On 25/05/2015 15:57, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Mon, 25 May 2015 13:13:56 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: You really think the EU would be foolish enough to allow the UK to leave but keep the many benefits of being in a free trade area without also the responsibities? I'd say they'd be mad to. They ain't got no choice, M8. The balance of trade is WAY in our favour. Germany would go bust without having us (their biggest market by far) to export to. We are only fourth, after France, the USA and China. Same goes for the French, Fifth, after Germany, Benelux, Italy and the USA the Spanish, Fifth, after France, Germany, Italy and Portugal the Italians.... Fifth, after Germany, France, USA and Switzerland. -- Colin Bignell |
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
On Monday, 25 May 2015 16:43:48 UTC+1, Nightjar wrote:
On 25/05/2015 15:57, Cursitor Doom wrote: On Mon, 25 May 2015 13:13:56 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: You really think the EU would be foolish enough to allow the UK to leave but keep the many benefits of being in a free trade area without also the responsibities? I'd say they'd be mad to. They ain't got no choice, M8. The balance of trade is WAY in our favour. Germany would go bust without having us (their biggest market by far) to export to. We are only fourth, after France, the USA and China. Same goes for the French, Fifth, after Germany, Benelux, Italy and the USA the Spanish, Fifth, after France, Germany, Italy and Portugal the Italians.... Fifth, after Germany, France, USA and Switzerland. interesting maths NT |
#12
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Cursitor Doom wrote: On Sun, 24 May 2015 16:30:59 +0100, harryagain wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...11625919/Owen- Paterson-leaving-European-Union-could-increase-prosperity-and-boost- jobs.html Agreed. Way better off without this increasingly burdensome millstone round our necks. You really think the EU would be foolish enough to allow the UK to leave but keep the many benefits of being in a free trade area without also the responsibities? They have allowed Norway, Switzerland etc to have those without joining the EU. And the EU doesn’t get any say on that stuff anyway. I'd say they'd be mad to. Maybe, but they clearly have with Norway and Switzerland. |
#14
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
On Mon, 25 May 2015 14:57:22 +0000, Cursitor Doom wrote:
They ain't got no choice, M8. The balance of trade is WAY in our favour. Germany would go bust without having us (their biggest market by far) to export to. Same goes for the French, the Spanish, the Italians.... wipes tear of laughter away (undated) France - 8.8% US - 8.1% China - 6.4% UK - 6.2% NL - 5.8% https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/deu/ Same site gives UK as 5th biggest export market for each of France, Italy and Spain. We aren't even the biggest export market for Ireland... 2014 France - ‚¬102bn US - ‚¬96bn UK - ‚¬84bn https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigu...myEnvironment/ ForeignTrade/TradingPartners/Tables/OrderRankGermanyTradingPartners.pdf |
#16
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
On 25/05/2015 23:37, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Mon, 25 May 2015 17:16:36 +0100, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote: On 25/05/2015 17:10, wrote: On Monday, 25 May 2015 16:43:48 UTC+1, Nightjar wrote: On 25/05/2015 15:57, Cursitor Doom wrote: On Mon, 25 May 2015 13:13:56 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: You really think the EU would be foolish enough to allow the UK to leave but keep the many benefits of being in a free trade area without also the responsibities? I'd say they'd be mad to. They ain't got no choice, M8. The balance of trade is WAY in our favour. Germany would go bust without having us (their biggest market by far) to export to. We are only fourth, after France, the USA and China. Same goes for the French, Fifth, after Germany, Benelux, Italy and the USA the Spanish, Fifth, after France, Germany, Italy and Portugal the Italians.... Fifth, after Germany, France, USA and Switzerland. interesting maths They are OEC figures. OEC? WTF is that?? Observatory of economic complexity - a useful tool for analysing the economics of almost any country. The fact remains that any old nonsense they might like to inflict on us would cost THEM far more than it would cost US. Hence, it ain't gonna happen. Keep telling yourself that. I am sure you will find it comforting to believe it. -- Colin Bignell |
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
On Mon, 25 May 2015 22:37:57 +0000, Cursitor Doom wrote:
interesting maths They are OEC figures. OEC? WTF is that?? A useful, reliable and authoritative source of what are often known as "facts", inconvenient though they may be. |
#18
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
On 26/05/15 08:28, Adrian wrote:
On Mon, 25 May 2015 22:37:57 +0000, Cursitor Doom wrote: interesting maths They are OEC figures. OEC? WTF is that?? A useful, reliable and authoritative source of what are often known as "facts", inconvenient though they may be. Er no. It isn't that. OEC may refer to: Offshore Energy Center, sponsor of the Ocean Star Offshore Drilling Rig & Museum in Galveston, Texas, United States Old Earth creationism, a term for several types of creationism Olfactory ensheathing cells, a type of glial cell found in the nervous system Ordre des Experts-Comptables, French association of chartered accountants Oregon Environmental Council, an American environmental organization Orion Expedition Cruises, Australian based luxury expedition cruise line Orissa Engineering College, a technical institution in Bhubaneswar, Orissa, India Osborn Engineering Company, a former British manufacturer of motorcycles Otis Elevator Company, an American company that manufactures vertical transportation systems Outdoor Emergency Care, a course for certification of first aid in non-urban situations Oxygen evolving complex, a water oxidizing enzyme .OEC, the file format for OE-Cake! -- New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket. |
#19
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
In article ,
Rod Speed wrote: You really think the EU would be foolish enough to allow the UK to leave but keep the many benefits of being in a free trade area without also the responsibities? They have allowed Norway, Switzerland etc to have those without joining the EU. And the EU doesn’t get any say on that stuff anyway. And those countries who do get some of the rights without joining also have to share the responsibilities too. Without the same voting rights. -- *IF YOU TRY TO FAIL, AND SUCCEED, WHICH HAVE YOU DONE? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Rod Speed wrote Dave Plowman (News) wrote You really think the EU would be foolish enough to allow the UK to leave but keep the many benefits of being in a free trade area without also the responsibities? They have allowed Norway, Switzerland etc to have those without joining the EU. And the EU doesn't get any say on that stuff anyway. And those countries who do get some of the rights without joining also have to share the responsibilities too. No they do not. They are free to decide for themselves which things like say NATO they get involved with and which they don't. Without the same voting rights. They do in fact have much more freedom to decide what they get involved in and what they don't. And that includes being part of the EU too. |
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
On Tue, 26 May 2015 11:16:20 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
You really think the EU would be foolish enough to allow the UK to leave but keep the many benefits of being in a free trade area without also the responsibities? They have allowed Norway, Switzerland etc to have those without joining the EU. And the EU doesnÂ’t get any say on that stuff anyway. And those countries who do get some of the rights without joining also have to share the responsibilities too. Without the same voting rights. Norway is an EEA member. Switzerland is an EFTA member. Both are Shengen members. UKIP don't want the UK to "seek to remain" EEA or EFTA members, and the UK has never been a Shengen country. Membership of any one of those three would inherently include free movement of people, exactly as EU membership currently does. Shengen goes further - with a single centralised Shengen visa for non-EU nationals, too. |
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote: And those countries who do get some of the rights without joining also have to share the responsibilities too. Without the same voting rights. Which responsibilities are you talking about? The main one which UKIP and all the other racists hate. Free movement of people between countries. -- *Why don't you ever see the headline "Psychic Wins Lottery"? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#23
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
On 26/05/15 11:16, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Rod Speed wrote: You really think the EU would be foolish enough to allow the UK to leave but keep the many benefits of being in a free trade area without also the responsibities? They have allowed Norway, Switzerland etc to have those without joining the EU. And the EU doesnt get any say on that stuff anyway. And those countries who do get some of the rights without joining also have to share the responsibilities too. Without the same voting rights. since UKs vote has never counted for anythi9ng that makes little difference... -- New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket. |
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
On 26/05/15 13:35, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Tim Streater wrote: And those countries who do get some of the rights without joining also have to share the responsibilities too. Without the same voting rights. Which responsibilities are you talking about? The main one which UKIP and all the other racists hate. Free movement of people between countries. Ok, so that means the world is full of racists. America. Australia, Afghanistan. All do not permit free movement of peoples noy citizens of those countries And that's just those beginning with A... Your bigotry is showing again Dave... -- New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket. |
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
On Tuesday, 26 May 2015 13:36:19 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Tim Streater wrote: And those countries who do get some of the rights without joining also have to share the responsibilities too. Without the same voting rights. Which responsibilities are you talking about? The main one which UKIP and all the other racists hate. Free movement of people between countries. I think most sensible people would think free movement of peolpe between countries would be problematic. Leting the jimmy savilles, Gary Glitters of the world go anywhere they wish doing whatever they wish. I wouldn;t weant IS's to set up here in the UK and I don't care how un PC that makes me, and it doesn't make me a racist either a cultraslist perhaps but that's to complex for most people to understand. |
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote: The main one which UKIP and all the other racists hate. Free movement of people between countries. Ok, so that means the world is full of racists. America. Australia, Afghanistan. All do not permit free movement of peoples noy citizens of those countries And that's just those beginning with A... Your bigotry is showing again Dave... Perhaps it has escaped you, again, but this is referring to the pros and cons of being an EU member as opposed to just trading with them. And although Oz was in the recent Eurovision Song Contest, I don't think it's likely to become part of the EU... -- *24 hours in a day ... 24 beers in a case ... coincidence? * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#27
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote: The main one which UKIP and all the other racists hate. Free movement of people between countries. I think most sensible people would think free movement of peolpe between countries would be problematic. Really? You want to stop Brits retiring to Spain, etc? Leting the jimmy savilles, Gary Glitters of the world go anywhere they wish doing whatever they wish. Now that's convoluted thinking even for you... I wouldn;t weant IS's to set up here in the UK and I don't care how un PC that makes me, and it doesn't make me a racist either a cultraslist perhaps but that's to complex for most people to understand. If what you mean is the idea of an Islamic state in the UK, it's laughable. -- *IF YOU TRY TO FAIL, AND SUCCEED, WHICH HAVE YOU DONE? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#28
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
On 26/05/15 14:24, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher wrote: The main one which UKIP and all the other racists hate. Free movement of people between countries. Ok, so that means the world is full of racists. America. Australia, Afghanistan. All do not permit free movement of peoples noy citizens of those countries And that's just those beginning with A... Your bigotry is showing again Dave... Perhaps it has escaped you, again, but this is referring to the pros and cons of being an EU member as opposed to just trading with them. Well so it was until you made the blanket statement that anyone who had or wanted restricted immigration was ipso facto a racist. And although Oz was in the recent Eurovision Song Contest, I don't think it's likely to become part of the EU... Irrelevant. If we left te EU, neither would we be part of it, ergo if we left,. and wanted to halt unrestricted immigration, like Australia, and that would make us racist, that also applies to Australia and the United states doesn't it? -- New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket. |
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote: Well so it was until you made the blanket statement that anyone who had or wanted restricted immigration was ipso facto a racist. I was referring to political parties whose prime objective is to stop immigration. At any cost. -- *Rehab is for quitters. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#30
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote: Irrelevant. If we left te EU, neither would we be part of it, ergo if we left,. and wanted to halt unrestricted immigration, like Australia, and that would make us racist, that also applies to Australia and the United states doesn't it? Have you looked at the most recent immigration figures? Less than half came from the EU. So the majority of immigration to the UK has precisely zero to do with free movement of citizens within the EU. -- *I pretend to work. - they pretend to pay me. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#31
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
On Tue, 26 May 2015 15:30:41 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Irrelevant. If we left te EU, neither would we be part of it, ergo if we left,. and wanted to halt unrestricted immigration, like Australia, and that would make us racist, that also applies to Australia and the United states doesn't it? Have you looked at the most recent immigration figures? Less than half came from the EU. Indeed. For 2014... 641,000 immigrated total comprising 83,000 returning UK "expats" 268,000 other EU nationals 290,000 non-EU nationals 323,000 emigrated Net migration 313,000 - lower than 2005's 320,000 http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/migrat...ics-quarterly- report/may-2015/stb-msqr-may-2015.html So the majority of immigration to the UK has precisely zero to do with free movement of citizens within the EU. Oh, if only the UK had control of non-EU migration - probably via an Australian-style points-based system... Oops. We do. If only we were more like Norway and Switzerland, who have no control over their non-EU migration at all... |
#32
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
On 26/05/15 15:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher wrote: Well so it was until you made the blanket statement that anyone who had or wanted restricted immigration was ipso facto a racist. I was referring to political parties whose prime objective is to stop immigration. At any cost. No you weren't. You simply wanted to make a snide comment about UKIP and used a statement that was demostrably false to make it. Which is no more than one expects. -- New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket. |
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
On 26/05/15 15:41, Adrian wrote:
Oh, if only the UK had control of non-EU migration - probably via an Australian-style points-based system... Oops. We do. Er no. The problem is that any immigration we DO allow falls under the remit of European social legislation and the European court of human rights. REGARDLESS of where the immigrant comes from. Do keep up - the whole reason we couldn't deport e.g. Abu Hamza was on account of years of legal wrangling at a European level, despite the fact he was not a European immigrant. Now you can split hairs and say the European court of human rights is not the same as the EU, but they are both European institutions we 'signed up to' and indeed there is now discussion as to whether we should revoke that. And it is precisely the fact that we are hamstrung by our EU membership in dealing with the legacy of being a former large colonial power with obligations to former Commonwealth citizens and nations that means we need to establish specialised ways of dealing with our relationships there - not be held to the sort of rules that work quite adequately to allow Austrians to move to Germany and vice versa. -- New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket. |
#34
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
On 26/05/2015 15:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
.... Now you can split hairs and say the European court of human rights is not the same as the EU, but they are both European institutions we 'signed up to' The ECHR is something we actively promoted and helped found, rather than simply signed up to. and indeed there is now discussion as to whether we should revoke that. .... Who is discussing leaving the Council of Europe? -- Colin Bignell |
#35
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
On 26/05/15 16:29, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 26/05/2015 15:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote: ... Now you can split hairs and say the European court of human rights is not the same as the EU, but they are both European institutions we 'signed up to' The ECHR is something we actively promoted and helped found, rather than simply signed up to. and indeed there is now discussion as to whether we should revoke that. ... Who is discussing leaving the Council of Europe? http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...man-rights-act -- New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket. |
#36
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 26/05/15 15:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , The Natural Philosopher wrote: Well so it was until you made the blanket statement that anyone who had or wanted restricted immigration was ipso facto a racist. I was referring to political parties whose prime objective is to stop immigration. At any cost. No you weren't. You simply wanted to make a snide comment about UKIP and used a statement that was demostrably false to make it. Yup. Still countering all that BNUKIP propaganda you peddled here for ages. Which is no more than one expects. Good. -- *Black holes are where God divided by zero * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#37
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote: Er no. The problem is that any immigration we DO allow falls under the remit of European social legislation and the European court of human rights. REGARDLESS of where the immigrant comes from. Do keep up - the whole reason we couldn't deport e.g. Abu Hamza was on account of years of legal wrangling at a European level, despite the fact he was not a European immigrant. Ah. Right. So you're showing your true colours. Not only wanting to stop immigration but to deport those already here. -- *Why is 'abbreviation' such a long word? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#38
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
On 26/05/15 17:16, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher wrote: Er no. The problem is that any immigration we DO allow falls under the remit of European social legislation and the European court of human rights. REGARDLESS of where the immigrant comes from. Do keep up - the whole reason we couldn't deport e.g. Abu Hamza was on account of years of legal wrangling at a European level, despite the fact he was not a European immigrant. Ah. Right. So you're showing your true colours. Not only wanting to stop immigration but to deport those already here. Not me, no. That was your democratically elected government. Which is still trying to get out from under the ECHR according to te guardian You mustn't let your prejudice bigotry and hatred if everyone who is better than you blind you to the fact that they are probably right.. -- New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket. |
#39
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote: Do keep up - the whole reason we couldn't deport e.g. Abu Hamza was on account of years of legal wrangling at a European level, despite the fact he was not a European immigrant. Ah. Right. So you're showing your true colours. Not only wanting to stop immigration but to deport those already here. Not me, no. That was your democratically elected government. That will be why you referred to it as 'we'? Which is still trying to get out from under the ECHR according to te guardian You mustn't let your prejudice bigotry and hatred if everyone who is better than you blind you to the fact that they are probably right.. You consider yourself better than me too? Is there any limit to your ego? -- *Succeed, in spite of management * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#40
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OT. EUSSR Brexit.
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote: Do keep up - the whole reason we couldn't deport e.g. Abu Hamza was on account of years of legal wrangling at a European level, despite the fact he was not a European immigrant. Except, of course, it wasn't. It was because the UK government couldn't be arsed to ACTUALLY PRODUCE ANY EVIDENCE AGAINST HIM. The US did produce evidence, and gave him in the free and fair trial we refused to give him. Oh, and the whole point of Human Rights is to protect _HUMANS_ from Governments doing bad things to them. All Humans. No matter their nationality. I think that's why some people get so exercised about the whole concept - not because they don't think that Governments should be stopped from doing bad things, but because they don't think that EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING deserves to be treated equally and fairly by the law. |
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OT Trade with EUSSR. | UK diy | |||
OT. EU and Brexit | UK diy | |||
80% of UK Laws Now Made In Brussels by the EUSSR (closure of postoffices was one of theirs) | UK diy |