http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...oost-jobs.html

"Nightjar .me.uk" "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 24/05/2015 16:30, harryagain wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...oost-jobs.html


This would be the Owen Patterson who is a hard line Eurosceptic, and who
addressed the London Swinton Circle, an extreme right wing group that
advocates mass deportations, isolationism and capital punishment. Seems
like your kind of person Harry.

What's wrong with any of that?

On 24/05/2015 16:30, harryagain wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...oost-jobs.html


This would be the Owen Patterson who is a hard line Eurosceptic, and who
addressed the London Swinton Circle, an extreme right wing group that
advocates mass deportations, isolationism and capital punishment. Seems
like your kind of person Harry.

--
Colin Bignell

On 24/05/2015 16:52, harryagain wrote:
"Nightjar .me.uk" "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 24/05/2015 16:30, harryagain wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...oost-jobs.html






This would be the Owen Patterson who is a hard line Eurosceptic,
and who addressed the London Swinton Circle, an extreme right wing
group that advocates mass deportations, isolationism and capital
punishment. Seems like your kind of person Harry.

What's wrong with any of that?



Can we execute or deport people like you if we vote for them?

Ah Alf Garnet without the humour then.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Nightjar .me.uk" "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 24/05/2015 16:30, harryagain wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...oost-jobs.html


This would be the Owen Patterson who is a hard line Eurosceptic, and who
addressed the London Swinton Circle, an extreme right wing group that
advocates mass deportations, isolationism and capital punishment. Seems
like your kind of person Harry.

--
Colin Bignell

On 25/05/15 07:39, Brian-Gaff wrote:
Ah Alf Garnet without the humour then.
Brian

No. Not really.


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On Sun, 24 May 2015 16:30:59 +0100, harryagain wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...11625919/Owen-
Paterson-leaving-European-Union-could-increase-prosperity-and-boost-
jobs.html

Agreed. Way better off without this increasingly burdensome millstone
round our necks.

In article ,
Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 24 May 2015 16:30:59 +0100, harryagain wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...11625919/Owen-
Paterson-leaving-European-Union-could-increase-prosperity-and-boost-
jobs.html

Agreed. Way better off without this increasingly burdensome millstone
round our necks.


You really think the EU would be foolish enough to allow the UK to leave
but keep the many benefits of being in a free trade area without also the
responsibities?

I'd say they'd be mad to.

--
*Age is a very high price to pay for maturity.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 25 May 2015 13:13:56 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

You really think the EU would be foolish enough to allow the UK to leave
but keep the many benefits of being in a free trade area without also
the responsibities?

I'd say they'd be mad to.

They ain't got no choice, M8. The balance of trade is WAY in our favour.
Germany would go bust without having us (their biggest market by far) to
export to. Same goes for the French, the Spanish, the Italians....

On 25/05/2015 15:57, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Mon, 25 May 2015 13:13:56 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

You really think the EU would be foolish enough to allow the UK to leave
but keep the many benefits of being in a free trade area without also
the responsibities?

I'd say they'd be mad to.

They ain't got no choice, M8. The balance of trade is WAY in our favour.
Germany would go bust without having us (their biggest market by far) to
export to.

We are only fourth, after France, the USA and China.

Same goes for the French,

Fifth, after Germany, Benelux, Italy and the USA

the Spanish,

Fifth, after France, Germany, Italy and Portugal

the Italians....

Fifth, after Germany, France, USA and Switzerland.

--
Colin Bignell

On Monday, 25 May 2015 16:43:48 UTC+1, Nightjar wrote:
On 25/05/2015 15:57, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Mon, 25 May 2015 13:13:56 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

You really think the EU would be foolish enough to allow the UK to leave
but keep the many benefits of being in a free trade area without also
the responsibities?

I'd say they'd be mad to.

They ain't got no choice, M8. The balance of trade is WAY in our favour.
Germany would go bust without having us (their biggest market by far) to
export to.

We are only fourth, after France, the USA and China.

Same goes for the French,

Fifth, after Germany, Benelux, Italy and the USA

the Spanish,

Fifth, after France, Germany, Italy and Portugal

the Italians....

Fifth, after Germany, France, USA and Switzerland.

interesting maths


NT

On 25/05/2015 17:10, wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2015 16:43:48 UTC+1, Nightjar wrote:
On 25/05/2015 15:57, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Mon, 25 May 2015 13:13:56 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

You really think the EU would be foolish enough to allow the UK to leave
but keep the many benefits of being in a free trade area without also
the responsibities?

I'd say they'd be mad to.

They ain't got no choice, M8. The balance of trade is WAY in our favour.
Germany would go bust without having us (their biggest market by far) to
export to.

We are only fourth, after France, the USA and China.

Same goes for the French,

Fifth, after Germany, Benelux, Italy and the USA

the Spanish,

Fifth, after France, Germany, Italy and Portugal

the Italians....

Fifth, after Germany, France, USA and Switzerland.

interesting maths

They are OEC figures.


--
Colin Bignell

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 24 May 2015 16:30:59 +0100, harryagain wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...11625919/Owen-
Paterson-leaving-European-Union-could-increase-prosperity-and-boost-
jobs.html

Agreed. Way better off without this increasingly burdensome millstone
round our necks.


You really think the EU would be foolish enough to allow
the UK to leave but keep the many benefits of being in a
free trade area without also the responsibities?

They have allowed Norway, Switzerland etc to have those
without joining the EU. And the EU doesn’t get any say on
that stuff anyway.

I'd say they'd be mad to.

Maybe, but they clearly have with Norway and Switzerland.

On Mon, 25 May 2015 14:57:22 +0000, Cursitor Doom wrote:

They ain't got no choice, M8. The balance of trade is WAY in our favour.
Germany would go bust without having us (their biggest market by far) to
export to. Same goes for the French, the Spanish, the Italians....

wipes tear of laughter away

(undated)
France - 8.8%
US - 8.1%
China - 6.4%
UK - 6.2%
NL - 5.8%
https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/deu/

Same site gives UK as 5th biggest export market for each of France, Italy
and Spain. We aren't even the biggest export market for Ireland...

2014
France - ‚¬102bn
US - ‚¬96bn
UK - ‚¬84bn
https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigu...myEnvironment/
ForeignTrade/TradingPartners/Tables/OrderRankGermanyTradingPartners.pdf

On Mon, 25 May 2015 17:16:36 +0100, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:

On 25/05/2015 17:10, wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2015 16:43:48 UTC+1, Nightjar wrote:
On 25/05/2015 15:57, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Mon, 25 May 2015 13:13:56 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

You really think the EU would be foolish enough to allow the UK to
leave but keep the many benefits of being in a free trade area
without also the responsibities?

I'd say they'd be mad to.

They ain't got no choice, M8. The balance of trade is WAY in our
favour.
Germany would go bust without having us (their biggest market by far)
to export to.

We are only fourth, after France, the USA and China.

Same goes for the French,

Fifth, after Germany, Benelux, Italy and the USA

the Spanish,

Fifth, after France, Germany, Italy and Portugal

the Italians....

Fifth, after Germany, France, USA and Switzerland.

interesting maths

They are OEC figures.

OEC? WTF is that??
The fact remains that any old nonsense they might like to inflict on us
would cost THEM far more than it would cost US. Hence, it ain't gonna
happen.

On 25/05/2015 23:37, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Mon, 25 May 2015 17:16:36 +0100, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:

On 25/05/2015 17:10, wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2015 16:43:48 UTC+1, Nightjar wrote:
On 25/05/2015 15:57, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Mon, 25 May 2015 13:13:56 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

You really think the EU would be foolish enough to allow the UK to
leave but keep the many benefits of being in a free trade area
without also the responsibities?

I'd say they'd be mad to.

They ain't got no choice, M8. The balance of trade is WAY in our
favour.
Germany would go bust without having us (their biggest market by far)
to export to.

We are only fourth, after France, the USA and China.

Same goes for the French,

Fifth, after Germany, Benelux, Italy and the USA

the Spanish,

Fifth, after France, Germany, Italy and Portugal

the Italians....

Fifth, after Germany, France, USA and Switzerland.

interesting maths

They are OEC figures.

OEC? WTF is that??

Observatory of economic complexity - a useful tool for analysing the
economics of almost any country.

The fact remains that any old nonsense they might like to inflict on us
would cost THEM far more than it would cost US. Hence, it ain't gonna
happen.

Keep telling yourself that. I am sure you will find it comforting to
believe it.



--
Colin Bignell

On Mon, 25 May 2015 22:37:57 +0000, Cursitor Doom wrote:

interesting maths

They are OEC figures.

OEC? WTF is that??

A useful, reliable and authoritative source of what are often known as
"facts", inconvenient though they may be.

On 26/05/15 08:28, Adrian wrote:
On Mon, 25 May 2015 22:37:57 +0000, Cursitor Doom wrote:

interesting maths

They are OEC figures.

OEC? WTF is that??

A useful, reliable and authoritative source of what are often known as
"facts", inconvenient though they may be.

Er no. It isn't that.

OEC may refer to:

Offshore Energy Center, sponsor of the Ocean Star Offshore Drilling
Rig & Museum in Galveston, Texas, United States

Old Earth creationism, a term for several types of creationism

Olfactory ensheathing cells, a type of glial cell found in the
nervous system

Ordre des Experts-Comptables, French association of chartered
accountants

Oregon Environmental Council, an American environmental organization

Orion Expedition Cruises, Australian based luxury expedition cruise
line

Orissa Engineering College, a technical institution in Bhubaneswar,
Orissa, India

Osborn Engineering Company, a former British manufacturer of
motorcycles

Otis Elevator Company, an American company that manufactures
vertical transportation systems

Outdoor Emergency Care, a course for certification of first aid in
non-urban situations

Oxygen evolving complex, a water oxidizing enzyme
.OEC, the file format for OE-Cake!

--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
You really think the EU would be foolish enough to allow
the UK to leave but keep the many benefits of being in a
free trade area without also the responsibities?

They have allowed Norway, Switzerland etc to have those
without joining the EU. And the EU doesn’t get any say on
that stuff anyway.

And those countries who do get some of the rights without joining also
have to share the responsibilities too. Without the same voting rights.

--
*IF YOU TRY TO FAIL, AND SUCCEED, WHICH HAVE YOU DONE?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote

You really think the EU would be foolish enough to allow
the UK to leave but keep the many benefits of being in a
free trade area without also the responsibities?

They have allowed Norway, Switzerland etc to have those
without joining the EU. And the EU doesn't get any say on
that stuff anyway.

And those countries who do get some of the rights without
joining also have to share the responsibilities too.

No they do not. They are free to decide for themselves which
things like say NATO they get involved with and which they don't.

Without the same voting rights.

They do in fact have much more freedom to decide
what they get involved in and what they don't. And
that includes being part of the EU too.

On Tue, 26 May 2015 11:16:20 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

You really think the EU would be foolish enough to allow the UK to
leave but keep the many benefits of being in a free trade area
without also the responsibities?

They have allowed Norway, Switzerland etc to have those without joining
the EU. And the EU doesnÂ’t get any say on that stuff anyway.

And those countries who do get some of the rights without joining also
have to share the responsibilities too. Without the same voting rights.

Norway is an EEA member.
Switzerland is an EFTA member.
Both are Shengen members.

UKIP don't want the UK to "seek to remain" EEA or EFTA members, and the
UK has never been a Shengen country.

Membership of any one of those three would inherently include free
movement of people, exactly as EU membership currently does.

Shengen goes further - with a single centralised Shengen visa for non-EU
nationals, too.

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
And those countries who do get some of the rights without joining also
have to share the responsibilities too. Without the same voting rights.

Which responsibilities are you talking about?

The main one which UKIP and all the other racists hate. Free movement of
people between countries.

--
*Why don't you ever see the headline "Psychic Wins Lottery"?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 26/05/15 11:16, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
You really think the EU would be foolish enough to allow
the UK to leave but keep the many benefits of being in a
free trade area without also the responsibities?

They have allowed Norway, Switzerland etc to have those
without joining the EU. And the EU doesnt get any say on
that stuff anyway.

And those countries who do get some of the rights without joining also
have to share the responsibilities too. Without the same voting rights.

since UKs vote has never counted for anythi9ng that makes little
difference...



--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 26/05/15 13:35, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
And those countries who do get some of the rights without joining also
have to share the responsibilities too. Without the same voting rights.

Which responsibilities are you talking about?

The main one which UKIP and all the other racists hate. Free movement of
people between countries.

Ok, so that means the world is full of racists. America. Australia,
Afghanistan. All do not permit free movement of peoples noy citizens of
those countries

And that's just those beginning with A...

Your bigotry is showing again Dave...


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On Tuesday, 26 May 2015 13:36:19 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
And those countries who do get some of the rights without joining also
have to share the responsibilities too. Without the same voting rights.

Which responsibilities are you talking about?

The main one which UKIP and all the other racists hate. Free movement of
people between countries.

I think most sensible people would think free movement of peolpe between countries would be problematic. Leting the jimmy savilles, Gary Glitters of the world go anywhere they wish doing whatever they wish.
I wouldn;t weant IS's to set up here in the UK and I don't care how un PC that makes me, and it doesn't make me a racist either a cultraslist perhaps but that's to complex for most people to understand.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The main one which UKIP and all the other racists hate. Free movement of
people between countries.

Ok, so that means the world is full of racists. America. Australia,
Afghanistan. All do not permit free movement of peoples noy citizens of
those countries

And that's just those beginning with A...

Your bigotry is showing again Dave...

Perhaps it has escaped you, again, but this is referring to the pros and
cons of being an EU member as opposed to just trading with them.

And although Oz was in the recent Eurovision Song Contest, I don't think
it's likely to become part of the EU...

--
*24 hours in a day ... 24 beers in a case ... coincidence? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
The main one which UKIP and all the other racists hate. Free movement
of people between countries.

I think most sensible people would think free movement of peolpe between
countries would be problematic.

Really? You want to stop Brits retiring to Spain, etc?


Leting the jimmy savilles, Gary Glitters of the world go anywhere they
wish doing whatever they wish.

Now that's convoluted thinking even for you...

I wouldn;t weant IS's to set up here in the UK and I don't care how un
PC that makes me, and it doesn't make me a racist either a cultraslist
perhaps but that's to complex for most people to understand.

If what you mean is the idea of an Islamic state in the UK, it's laughable.

--
*IF YOU TRY TO FAIL, AND SUCCEED, WHICH HAVE YOU DONE?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 26/05/15 14:24, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The main one which UKIP and all the other racists hate. Free movement of
people between countries.

Ok, so that means the world is full of racists. America. Australia,
Afghanistan. All do not permit free movement of peoples noy citizens of
those countries

And that's just those beginning with A...

Your bigotry is showing again Dave...

Perhaps it has escaped you, again, but this is referring to the pros and
cons of being an EU member as opposed to just trading with them.


Well so it was until you made the blanket statement that anyone who had
or wanted restricted immigration was ipso facto a racist.


And although Oz was in the recent Eurovision Song Contest, I don't think
it's likely to become part of the EU...


Irrelevant. If we left te EU, neither would we be part of it, ergo if we
left,. and wanted to halt unrestricted immigration, like Australia, and
that would make us racist, that also applies to Australia and the United
states doesn't it?


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Well so it was until you made the blanket statement that anyone who had
or wanted restricted immigration was ipso facto a racist.

I was referring to political parties whose prime objective is to stop
immigration. At any cost.

--
*Rehab is for quitters.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Irrelevant. If we left te EU, neither would we be part of it, ergo if we
left,. and wanted to halt unrestricted immigration, like Australia, and
that would make us racist, that also applies to Australia and the United
states doesn't it?

Have you looked at the most recent immigration figures?

Less than half came from the EU.

So the majority of immigration to the UK has precisely zero to do with
free movement of citizens within the EU.

--
*I pretend to work. - they pretend to pay me.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 26 May 2015 15:30:41 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Irrelevant. If we left te EU, neither would we be part of it, ergo if
we left,. and wanted to halt unrestricted immigration, like Australia,
and that would make us racist, that also applies to Australia and the
United states doesn't it?

Have you looked at the most recent immigration figures?

Less than half came from the EU.

Indeed.

For 2014...
641,000 immigrated total comprising
83,000 returning UK "expats"
268,000 other EU nationals
290,000 non-EU nationals

323,000 emigrated

Net migration 313,000 - lower than 2005's 320,000

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/migrat...ics-quarterly-
report/may-2015/stb-msqr-may-2015.html

So the majority of immigration to the UK has precisely zero to do with
free movement of citizens within the EU.

Oh, if only the UK had control of non-EU migration - probably via an
Australian-style points-based system...

Oops. We do.

If only we were more like Norway and Switzerland, who have no control
over their non-EU migration at all...

On 26/05/15 15:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Well so it was until you made the blanket statement that anyone who had
or wanted restricted immigration was ipso facto a racist.

I was referring to political parties whose prime objective is to stop
immigration. At any cost.

No you weren't. You simply wanted to make a snide comment about UKIP and
used a statement that was demostrably false to make it.

Which is no more than one expects.

--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 26/05/15 15:41, Adrian wrote:
Oh, if only the UK had control of non-EU migration - probably via an
Australian-style points-based system...

Oops. We do.

Er no. The problem is that any immigration we DO allow falls under the
remit of European social legislation and the European court of human rights.

REGARDLESS of where the immigrant comes from.

Do keep up - the whole reason we couldn't deport e.g. Abu Hamza was on
account of years of legal wrangling at a European level, despite the
fact he was not a European immigrant.

Now you can split hairs and say the European court of human rights is
not the same as the EU, but they are both European institutions we
'signed up to' and indeed there is now discussion as to whether we
should revoke that.

And it is precisely the fact that we are hamstrung by our EU membership
in dealing with the legacy of being a former large colonial power with
obligations to former Commonwealth citizens and nations that means we
need to establish specialised ways of dealing with our relationships
there - not be held to the sort of rules that work quite adequately to
allow Austrians to move to Germany and vice versa.




--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 26/05/2015 15:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
....
Now you can split hairs and say the European court of human rights is
not the same as the EU, but they are both European institutions we
'signed up to'

The ECHR is something we actively promoted and helped found, rather than
simply signed up to.

and indeed there is now discussion as to whether we
should revoke that.
....

Who is discussing leaving the Council of Europe?


--
Colin Bignell

On 26/05/15 16:29, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 26/05/2015 15:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
...
Now you can split hairs and say the European court of human rights is
not the same as the EU, but they are both European institutions we
'signed up to'

The ECHR is something we actively promoted and helped found, rather than
simply signed up to.

and indeed there is now discussion as to whether we
should revoke that.
...

Who is discussing leaving the Council of Europe?



http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...man-rights-act

--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/05/15 15:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Well so it was until you made the blanket statement that anyone who
had or wanted restricted immigration was ipso facto a racist.

I was referring to political parties whose prime objective is to stop
immigration. At any cost.

No you weren't. You simply wanted to make a snide comment about UKIP and
used a statement that was demostrably false to make it.

Yup. Still countering all that BNUKIP propaganda you peddled here for
ages.

Which is no more than one expects.

Good.

--
*Black holes are where God divided by zero *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Er no. The problem is that any immigration we DO allow falls under the
remit of European social legislation and the European court of human
rights.

REGARDLESS of where the immigrant comes from.

Do keep up - the whole reason we couldn't deport e.g. Abu Hamza was on
account of years of legal wrangling at a European level, despite the
fact he was not a European immigrant.

Ah. Right. So you're showing your true colours. Not only wanting to stop
immigration but to deport those already here.

--
*Why is 'abbreviation' such a long word?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 26/05/15 17:16, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Er no. The problem is that any immigration we DO allow falls under the
remit of European social legislation and the European court of human
rights.

REGARDLESS of where the immigrant comes from.

Do keep up - the whole reason we couldn't deport e.g. Abu Hamza was on
account of years of legal wrangling at a European level, despite the
fact he was not a European immigrant.

Ah. Right. So you're showing your true colours. Not only wanting to stop
immigration but to deport those already here.

Not me, no. That was your democratically elected government.

Which is still trying to get out from under the ECHR according to te
guardian

You mustn't let your prejudice bigotry and hatred if everyone who is
better than you blind you to the fact that they are probably right..


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Do keep up - the whole reason we couldn't deport e.g. Abu Hamza was on
account of years of legal wrangling at a European level, despite the
fact he was not a European immigrant.

Ah. Right. So you're showing your true colours. Not only wanting to
stop immigration but to deport those already here.

Not me, no. That was your democratically elected government.

That will be why you referred to it as 'we'?

Which is still trying to get out from under the ECHR according to te
guardian

You mustn't let your prejudice bigotry and hatred if everyone who is
better than you blind you to the fact that they are probably right..

You consider yourself better than me too? Is there any limit to your ego?

--
*Succeed, in spite of management *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Do keep up - the whole reason we couldn't deport e.g. Abu Hamza was on
account of years of legal wrangling at a European level, despite the
fact he was not a European immigrant.

Except, of course, it wasn't.

It was because the UK government couldn't be arsed to ACTUALLY PRODUCE
ANY EVIDENCE AGAINST HIM. The US did produce evidence, and gave him in
the free and fair trial we refused to give him.

Oh, and the whole point of Human Rights is to protect _HUMANS_ from
Governments doing bad things to them. All Humans. No matter their
nationality.

I think that's why some people get so exercised about the whole concept -
not because they don't think that Governments should be stopped from
doing bad things, but because they don't think that EVERY SINGLE HUMAN
BEING deserves to be treated equally and fairly by the law.