On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:23:19 +0100, News wrote:

Thanks for all the comments. Seems to me you're all using something in
the range 3-5000 units. Why are we using over 9000?

Seems highcompared to what others are saying but we struggle to get
below 20 units/day. Life style plays big part we are up and about and
"in" (self employed work from home a lot) from 0700 to midnight every
day.

Yes, large house. 6 beds. However, 3 people (2 adults, one child), and
we don't run lights or anything else in the rooms not being used.

I wish ... for ever going round switching off lights in empty rooms.

Oil heating, no gas, so leccy covers all the usual stuff.

Snap.

Yes, we have two desktops and two laptops on 24/7.

They could easily account for 5 units/day assuming 200 W, could well
be higher. My PC runs at about 150 W but it is old (10 years or so).

Router and homeplugs. Fluorescent lights in the kitchen are left on
24/7 (for the dog ...).

5' tube, 58 W each... do the maths. Another 1.4 units/day per tube.

Most of our light bulbs are either fluorescent or low energy. Showers
just use domestic hot water from the tank. Immersion heater very rarely
used - 2 or 3 times,

Snapish.

when we've run out of oil.

I keep a close eye on the oil, weekly sight glass reading and
extrapolate when it's likely to run out. Prediction not very accurate
in the transition to/from winter but reasonable once into winter.

One freezer, one fridge/freezer and a fridge. Dishwasher used every
night.

Similar cooling. Have a look in the DW manual and see if it tells you
how much it uses per cycle. I'd expect around 2 units.

Telly perhaps a dozen nights a year. Washing machine twice, sometimes
three times a week. No built in tumble dryer. Wifey uses hair dryer
and straighteners once a week.

Hair dryer, at least No.1 Daughters hair dryer seems to take quite a
bit... I think hers is rated at 1.8 kW and she can take upwards of 15
mins to dry her hair! Intermittent over that 15 mins. The hover (in
our case a DC04) is another possibly surprising consumer, couple of
hours hoovering the house and a couple of units used.

The usual mobile chargers, radio etc. Electric kettle - we drink
a lot of tea. Electric hob and oven. We use a combination
microwave/oven a lot, to avoid heating the big oven.

Maybe a unit or two per main meal. Hob and induction ring use about a
unit to cook the evening meal.

Can never remember the types of hob. Glass top, the rings glow red when
on.

Halogen.

Might be worth getting an enrgy monitor. I have a CurrentCost unit as
it squirts the data out in an easy to parse form (XML). I'ts
connected to the server which logs the data and enable graphing of it
on the local webserver.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 22/09/14 20:04, ARW wrote:


Hot tubs are for swingers.

You say that like it's a bad thing!

Tim Watts wrote:
ARW wrote:
Hot tubs are for swingers.
You say that like it's a bad thing!

Depends on whether the wife is using it while you're away

Owain

There are three lofts here, due to
the construction of the house, one of which I have never been in.


And of course Sod's Law guarantees that's the loft the cannabis farmers
have been in

You've obviously got a lot to explore but ISTM you might fairly quickly
find your use explains that high total figure. Eg a PC on 24/7 and
used several hours a day could easily account for well over 1,000 units.
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

On 22/09/2014 20:19, News wrote:
In message ],
Another John writes

We'll all be very interested to see what you find, Graeme!

So will I :-)

The wiring here is strange. I mentioned that there is a master on/off
switch, plus four individually switched fuse boxes. When playing around
this morning, I forgot to turn one of them back on, but did not notice
until this evening. Four fuses in that box, but for what? They seem to
cover the downstairs hall light, and the ceiling lights in the front
rooms, upstairs and down, to the left of the front door, but not the
rooms on the right. In both of those rooms are various wall sockets,
some of which were off, but not all. Most odd. I'll try and remember
to photograph 'mission control' tomorrow.

Prompted by this thread, and most people being out of the house or at
least not using much power, I thought it might be interesting to
experiment a bit to see if I can see where our background load came
from. So I slapped a clamp meter round one of the meter tails, and
switched off various bits to see what showed up...

Some interesting bits:

The pond pump and UV clarifier take about an amp (however that's an
induction motor, so chances are some of that current is reactive and
hence not metered)

My comms cabinet (routers x 2, PABX, Network switch, NAS, external
drive, and a homeplug device) takes about 300mA

The smoke alarms and emergency lights pull 30mA

Now an odd one - there are two downstairs lighting circuits. Both had
all the lights off, yet between them they draw 400mA. Currently lost for
a reason why! (about 250mA on one, and 150mA on the other)

Kitchen 1.25A, mostly cooling I would expect.

Sockets first floor 250mA - mostly standby loads and a laptop charger -
possibly a 60W (250mA) PIR controlled lamp that may have triggered on
repowering.

Sockets downstairs, 2.84A, of which 1.6A alone is my IT kit in my office
(couple of PCs, Laser, Scanner, couple of phones with wall warts, answer
machine, 2 x LCD monitors, KVM switch, speakers/amp, mobile charger,
print server, and assorted other small appliances)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:23:19 +0100, News wrote:

when we've run out of oil.

I keep a close eye on the oil, weekly sight glass reading and
extrapolate when it's likely to run out.

Indeed. We use a Watchman which, despite a few negative comments here,
works rather well. The problem occurs when the roads north of here are
blocked (snow) and the tanker cannot get through. Naturally, this is
always at times of peak demand.

Right. Progress. Pictures of our fuse boxes here :

http://www.binnsroad.co.uk/misc/meter1/index.html

Even more progress. Have found the monitor which E.on sent me um, eons
ago. One clamp to go around the main supply cable. Will that be the
thick red cable to the left of the meter, in the bottom picture?
--
Graeme

In message , John
Rumm writes
On 22/09/2014 20:19, News wrote:
In message ],
Another John writes

We'll all be very interested to see what you find, Graeme!

So will I :-)

The wiring here is strange. I mentioned that there is a master on/off
switch, plus four individually switched fuse boxes. When playing around
this morning, I forgot to turn one of them back on, but did not notice
until this evening. Four fuses in that box, but for what? They seem to
cover the downstairs hall light, and the ceiling lights in the front
rooms, upstairs and down, to the left of the front door, but not the
rooms on the right. In both of those rooms are various wall sockets,
some of which were off, but not all. Most odd. I'll try and remember
to photograph 'mission control' tomorrow.

Prompted by this thread, and most people being out of the house or at
least not using much power, I thought it might be interesting to
experiment a bit to see if I can see where our background load came
from. So I slapped a clamp meter round one of the meter tails, and
switched off various bits to see what showed up...

Some interesting bits:

The pond pump and UV clarifier take about an amp (however that's an
induction motor, so chances are some of that current is reactive and
hence not metered)

My comms cabinet (routers x 2, PABX, Network switch, NAS, external
drive, and a homeplug device) takes about 300mA

The smoke alarms and emergency lights pull 30mA

Now an odd one - there are two downstairs lighting circuits. Both had
all the lights off, yet between them they draw 400mA. Currently lost
for a reason why! (about 250mA on one, and 150mA on the other)

Door bell transformer? Burglar alarm?

Kitchen 1.25A, mostly cooling I would expect.

Sockets first floor 250mA - mostly standby loads and a laptop charger -
possibly a 60W (250mA) PIR controlled lamp that may have triggered on
repowering.

Sockets downstairs, 2.84A, of which 1.6A alone is my IT kit in my
office (couple of PCs, Laser, Scanner, couple of phones with wall
warts, answer machine, 2 x LCD monitors, KVM switch, speakers/amp,
mobile charger, print server, and assorted other small appliances)



--
Tim Lamb

On 2014-09-22 17:37:58 +0000, News said:

In message 2014092214100577972-test@rawlinson456com, Mark Rawlinson
writes

A lot of gadgets - sky box, printers etc get left in standby too.

Thanks Mark - a useful list. I'm not sure whether to be reassured or
not. Two of us plus a 13 year old who leaves his desktop on 24/7 and
runs two average sized monitors, but turns them off at bedtime and
whilst at school. I do very occasionally run a fan heater. Printers
are usually off when not in use. More testing tomorrow.

I forgot something significant - halogen lighting. There are 12 50W
lights in the kitchen and eight in two bathrooms. If they are all on
this is 1.1kW.

M.

In message , John
Rumm writes
So I slapped a clamp meter round one of the meter tails, and switched
off various bits to see what showed up...

Interesting. So, if I am reading these figures correctly, that is a
total draw of 6.07 amps. What I don't know, is how to convert that to
KWph. In other words, if you used exactly 6.07 amps for one hour, how
many units of electricity would that be?
--
Graeme

In article ,
News wrote:
In message , John
Rumm writes
So I slapped a clamp meter round one of the meter tails, and switched
off various bits to see what showed up...

Interesting. So, if I am reading these figures correctly, that is a
total draw of 6.07 amps. What I don't know, is how to convert that to
KWph. In other words, if you used exactly 6.07 amps for one hour, how
many units of electricity would that be?

try multiplying by 0.24 That comes out at 1.45kWh

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

News wrote:

if you used exactly 6.07 amps for one hour, how
many units of electricity would that be?

Ignoring power factor and assuming nominal 230 voltage

6A * 230V = 1380W
1380W * 1h = 1380Wh = 1.38kWh = 1.38 units

On 23/09/14 12:34, News wrote:
In message , John
Rumm writes
So I slapped a clamp meter round one of the meter tails, and switched
off various bits to see what showed up...

Interesting. So, if I am reading these figures correctly, that is a
total draw of 6.07 amps. What I don't know, is how to convert that to
KWph. In other words, if you used exactly 6.07 amps for one hour, how
many units of electricity would that be?

P (watts) =VI

E (Energy kWh) = Pt/1000 (P=power in watts, t=time in hours)

So measure your voltage (RMS) or assume 235V (as a happy medium between
240 and 230).

Sp 6.07 for one hour =

P = 6.07*235/1000
P = 1.43kWh rounded

In message 2014092312283355171-test@rawlinson456com, Mark Rawlinson
writes

I forgot something significant - halogen lighting. There are 12 50W
lights in the kitchen and eight in two bathrooms. If they are all on
this is 1.1kW.

Yes, I keep remembering various things. We have five chandeliers (!) in
this house, all of which use traditional candle bulbs. Luckily, we
rarely use them, as Wifey prefers various flavours of table lamps, most
of which are now fitted with modern low energy bulbs.

This house was a B&B years ago, and various toilets have extractor fans
fitted, which come on with the ceiling light, but continue running after
the light is switched off. I did try to disconnect one yesterday, but
there are too many wires. I disconnected two red ones, but that just
made it click, and the motor pulsed so I bottled out, reconnected the
two red wires and left it running :-)

I read here a while ago that leaving a shaver plugged in to the bathroom
light, as I did, makes the transformer consume power, so now I unplug
that daily. Every little helps ...

--
Graeme

In message , charles
writes
In article ,
News wrote:

Interesting. So, if I am reading these figures correctly, that is a
total draw of 6.07 amps. What I don't know, is how to convert that to
KWph. In other words, if you used exactly 6.07 amps for one hour, how
many units of electricity would that be?

try multiplying by 0.24 That comes out at 1.45kWh

Thank you :-)
--
Graeme

In message , Andy
Burns writes

Ignoring power factor and assuming nominal 230 voltage

6A * 230V = 1380W
1380W * 1h = 1380Wh = 1.38kWh = 1.38 units

Two answers which are probably close enough. Thank you.
--
Graeme

On 23/09/14 12:34, News wrote:
In message , John
Rumm writes
So I slapped a clamp meter round one of the meter tails, and switched
off various bits to see what showed up...

Interesting. So, if I am reading these figures correctly, that is a
total draw of 6.07 amps. What I don't know, is how to convert that to
KWph. In other words, if you used exactly 6.07 amps for one hour, how
many units of electricity would that be?

multiply by 240..

and get 1.456kw
or in an hour 1.456kWh...


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

In article , News
writes

Right. Progress. Pictures of our fuse boxes here :

http://www.binnsroad.co.uk/misc/meter1/index.html

Even more progress. Have found the monitor which E.on sent me um, eons
ago. One clamp to go around the main supply cable. Will that be the
thick red cable to the left of the meter, in the bottom picture?

Something doesn't look quite right in that bottom picture.

To the left of the meter there is what looks like the supplier's fuse
with the main (thick red) feed coming in at the top but there appears to
be another thinner red connection wire daisy chaining into the
unprotected side of the fuse.

If it really is connected at that point then it doesn't look right at
all. As it is on the supplier's side then it wont be an answer to your
metering problem but running an unprotected spur in undersize cable
looks decidedly dodgy.

Maybe see if you can find where that goes, the shop perhaps?

Anyway, back to the metering, if you apply the clamp to the big red wire
and the spur is as it looks then you will be measuring any current going
off in that limb too. You would be better applying the clamp to wire 1
going into the meter. Actually, there's more slack on the neutral (wire
2) so that would be easier and the sensor doesn't care which side it's
on.

--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

In article , Robin writes
There are three lofts here, due to
the construction of the house, one of which I have never been in.


And of course Sod's Law guarantees that's the loft the cannabis farmers
have been in

I did nearly ask if that was what the shop sold ;-)
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

News wrote:

Two answers which are probably close enough.

Well yes, no point measuring the current to 1/100th of an Amp, then
having to guess the voltage to the nearest 10 Volts.

In message , fred writes

Anyway, back to the metering, if you apply the clamp to the big red
wire and the spur is as it looks then you will be measuring any current
going off in that limb too. You would be better applying the clamp to
wire 1 going into the meter. Actually, there's more slack on the
neutral (wire 2) so that would be easier and the sensor doesn't care
which side it's on.

Perfect. Thank you.

Back to that daisy chained cable, then yes, the shop is very likely. At
one time, pre shop, there was a room off the kitchen, which was extended
to the pavement, to create the shop. At least 30 years ago. Logic
suggests the original room would have had power fed from the house
supply, but house and shop would have been separated when the shop was
created.

Our supply is overhead cable, and there is only one cable, which
suggests the one supply terminates in my (house) cupboard with the shop
supply being taken pre meter, as suggested. The loft is full of cables,
mains, telephone and Heaven knows what else. Although house and shop
have separate phone lines, there are various shop line phone sockets in
the house, and a repeater bell, all from pre cordless days. No, I don't
plug my home phone into the shop's line :-)

There is also what looks to be the remains of a butler bell system up
there.

--
Graeme

Tim Streater wrote:

I bought one of these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000Q7PJGW/

in 2009 - very useful for seeing what juice is going through a
particular socket if you want to measure e.g. a fridge/freezer or a
telly. It can give you instantaneous measurements and average over some
period but doesn't store any data.

Well, as long as the supply isn't interrupted you can get total
hours elapsed and total kW used.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .

In article , News
wrote:

In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:23:19 +0100, News wrote:

when we've run out of oil.

I keep a close eye on the oil, weekly sight glass reading and
extrapolate when it's likely to run out.

Indeed. We use a Watchman which, despite a few negative comments here,
works rather well.

Same here.

Right. Progress. Pictures of our fuse boxes here :

http://www.binnsroad.co.uk/misc/meter1/index.html

Looks a bit like our under-stairs cupboard. :-)

Even more progress. Have found the monitor which E.on sent me um, eons
ago. One clamp to go around the main supply cable. Will that be the
thick red cable to the left of the meter, in the bottom picture?

Can you figure out where the supply enters? I guess it then goes to the
meter.

Eon sent us one too, when we were with them. Useful to have on the desk
next to me.

I bought one of these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000Q7PJGW/

in 2009 - very useful for seeing what juice is going through a
particular socket if you want to measure e.g. a fridge/freezer or a
telly. It can give you instantaneous measurements and average over some
period but doesn't store any data.

I have one of these:
http://www.headingpower.com/p-302-wa...l-1506210.aspx
Quite handy.

In message , fred writes
In article , Robin writes
There are three lofts here, due to
the construction of the house, one of which I have never been in.


And of course Sod's Law guarantees that's the loft the cannabis farmers
have been in

I did nearly ask if that was what the shop sold ;-)

grin The shop was (and remains) a post office, without any form of
'pot' plant for sale :-)
--
Graeme

On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 11:45:03 AM UTC+1, News wrote:
Even more progress. Have found the monitor which E.on sent me um, eons
ago. One clamp to go around the main supply cable. Will that be the
thick red cable to the left of the meter, in the bottom picture?

That's probably your neighbour's supply.

Use one of the two cables going from the bottom of the black main fuse into your meter.

Owain

In message , Tim Streater
writes

I bought one of these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000Q7PJGW/

Now that looks useful, thanks. Time to establish exactly was is 'on'
first, and that the meter is correctly recording usage. This morning's
plans have been put on hold, due to activity in the kitchen. Been busy
grating and juicing oranges and lemons :-)
--
Graeme, three months and counting

In article , News
writes
In message , fred writes

Back to that daisy chained cable, then yes, the shop is very likely. At
one time, pre shop, there was a room off the kitchen, which was extended
to the pavement, to create the shop. At least 30 years ago. Logic
suggests the original room would have had power fed from the house
supply, but house and shop would have been separated when the shop was
created.

I'll explain what my concerns are over that spur so you are aware of the
risks.

The main incomer looks to be about 16mm2 and is meant to go straight the
main fuse (80A?) with minimal length, and nowhere else. The reason for
that is that it is totally unprotected so physical damage resulting in a
short could cause very serious damage or a fire. That said, any short
applied across a 16mm incomer would likely disappear on its own in short
order as it vaporised, the fault current being so high (even on an
overhead).

Once it passes through the main fuse it becomes a protected circuit
(reduced risk) and it passes to the various consumer units (sorry fuse
boxes :-) that you have. Even then, the length of the cables passing to
fuse boxes are meant to be limited in length (usually 3m unless further
protected by a separate switch and fuse (switchfuse) again to limit risk
in case of physical damage.

That spur however looks only to be about 4 or 6mm2 and obviously has a
far lower current capacity than the 16mm one. It is also on the
unprotected side of the main fuse and so is exposed to very high fault
currents if damaged. The risk is that if a big nail was put through it
at the shop end then there is no fuse to protect it but the cable may
not be big enough to carry enough current to wipe out the nail that
causes the short. The risk is that the length of the smaller cable will
rapidly (instantaneously) overheat and set fire to anything flammable it
is in contact with. Also, there is nothing you can do about it as there
is no fuse to blow and no way of disconnecting the fault. Also, as it is
a smaller cable, people may not understand its significance or how
dangerous damage to it could be.


Aside: Well Adam did I get any of that right?

--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 1:59:38 PM UTC+1, News wrote:
grin The shop was (and remains) a post office, without any form of
'pot' plant for sale :-)


Some of those meter tails look like single core, not insulated sheathed (6181Y).

Check fridge/freezers to see if the compressors have burnt their paint off:
- Thermostats can stick on - compressor runs 24/7
- Insulation has shifted, saturated with ice - compressor runs 24/7

Stick all the IT gear on an energy monitor.
- Processors such as P4 Prescott suck energy like the 2 legged version
- Likewise early Plasma could draw 400-680W depending on size

You say turning the power off did not stop the shop, well maybe.
Is there any link in the LOFT between the lighting circuits?
Is there any link on any power sockets?

UK average is circa 10 units a day, even with tumble-dryer 1.5hr & washer every day on 40-60oC wash & electric cooker & electric immersion (light usage) & fridge & freezer (2 compressors).

A laptop is 10-30W, a PC can be 180-300W, so it may be economic to switch to a lower energy processor "modern" machine (IT stuff is peanuts on Ebay), or go to laptops (plenty of ex lease for peanuts on Ebay).

Your annual energy consumption is close to a 3-bed semi PEAK *and* E7-NSH combined kWhr. That is with electric heating appliances for 120 days of the year, per day summer is 9 units, winter is 25-35 units and exceptionally cold spell can be 40-50 units. You are running 25 units which is mostly over 17hrs.

On 23/09/2014 12:22, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , John
Rumm writes
On 22/09/2014 20:19, News wrote:
In message ],
Another John writes

We'll all be very interested to see what you find, Graeme!

So will I :-)

The wiring here is strange. I mentioned that there is a master on/off
switch, plus four individually switched fuse boxes. When playing around
this morning, I forgot to turn one of them back on, but did not notice
until this evening. Four fuses in that box, but for what? They seem to
cover the downstairs hall light, and the ceiling lights in the front
rooms, upstairs and down, to the left of the front door, but not the
rooms on the right. In both of those rooms are various wall sockets,
some of which were off, but not all. Most odd. I'll try and remember
to photograph 'mission control' tomorrow.

Prompted by this thread, and most people being out of the house or at
least not using much power, I thought it might be interesting to
experiment a bit to see if I can see where our background load came
from. So I slapped a clamp meter round one of the meter tails, and
switched off various bits to see what showed up...

Some interesting bits:

The pond pump and UV clarifier take about an amp (however that's an
induction motor, so chances are some of that current is reactive and
hence not metered)

My comms cabinet (routers x 2, PABX, Network switch, NAS, external
drive, and a homeplug device) takes about 300mA

The smoke alarms and emergency lights pull 30mA

Now an odd one - there are two downstairs lighting circuits. Both had
all the lights off, yet between them they draw 400mA. Currently lost
for a reason why! (about 250mA on one, and 150mA on the other)

Door bell transformer? Burglar alarm?

Not on that circuit... there may me one non maintained emergency light
on each - but the load seems too high for that. Perhaps I ought to
measure the leakage through the touch dimmers.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:

there are two downstairs lighting circuits. Both had
all the lights off, yet between them they draw 400mA.

Perhaps I ought to
measure the leakage through the touch dimmers.

Surely you'd notice 96W warming up a few dimmer switches if it was
happening ?

On 23/09/2014 16:55, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

there are two downstairs lighting circuits. Both had
all the lights off, yet between them they draw 400mA.

Perhaps I ought to
measure the leakage through the touch dimmers.

Surely you'd notice 96W warming up a few dimmer switches if it was
happening ?

More than likely (I expect their quiescent load to be down in the uA
TBH) - just struggling to think of what else could be on the circuits.
No extractor fans etc


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:

just struggling to think of what else could be on the circuits.

PIRs or dusk/dawn sensors?

On 23/09/2014 17:16, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

touch dimmers - as expected, too low to register on the clamp meter.

just struggling to think of what else could be on the circuits.

PIRs or dusk/dawn sensors?

One PIR on that circuit - just tested that - again below the resolution
of the meter...

(and the particularly odd thing is the load on *both* downstairs
circuits, where there are very few light fittings on one)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:

the particularly odd thing is the load on *both* downstairs
circuits, where there are very few light fittings on one

a pair of charred rat jaws?

In message , fred writes
In article , News
writes
In message , fred writes

Back to that daisy chained cable, then yes, the shop is very likely. At
one time, pre shop, there was a room off the kitchen, which was extended
to the pavement, to create the shop. At least 30 years ago. Logic
suggests the original room would have had power fed from the house
supply, but house and shop would have been separated when the shop was
created.

I'll explain what my concerns are over that spur so you are aware of
the risks.

OK, read and understood. Thanks. As you say, it must have been
installed like that by the power company. I shouldn't go into the back
of the shop (leased to someone else) but I will, just to see what the
incoming mains leads look like at that end.

Been outside with binoculars. A support cable from the pole on the
pavement attached to an insulator bolted to my chimney stack. Two
incoming cables wrapped around the support cable. Those two cables
amalgamate my side of the insulator and disappear into a metal conduit
which goes through the roof into the loft, fairly close to the main fuse
and consumer units (OK, not fuse boxes g).

That too is close to where the shop attaches to the house. The only
test I can really do re house/shop is turn off the power in the house on
a Sunday, then go into the shop and make sure all the lights and sockets
are live. Any dead will be cause for concern.

--
Graeme

On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 18:32:59 +0100, News
wrote:

In message , Johny B Good
writes

If I were you, I'd certainly be making some fairly basic tests to
look for either a metering error or a hidden 'phantom load' (Bill
Wright can recount a story or two relating to 'mystery phantom loads'
if ask him nicely :-).

Yes please :-) That is another possibility. When we moved in 12 years
ago, I climbed into the loft and found minimal insulation and a tube
heater beside the CW tank. There are three lofts here, due to the
construction of the house, one of which I have never been in.

Anyway, I am sort of reassured, particularly by Mark's comments, that
the usage is us being careless, or carefree.

Three plans. Firstly, tomorrow, turn off everything, and make sure the
meter actually stops.

Secondly, use a usage meter as first mentioned by Andrew.

Finally, run a test with just one known item running, to check the
accuracy of the meter.

Oh, and cut out the obvious excesses. Two desktops on 24/7. TV and box
on standby, but rarely used. Thinking back, we watched a few Harry
Potter films last Christmas, a few World Cup matches earlier this year
and the England match a couple of weeks ago, yet the TV and box are
always on standby. Ridiculous.

The TV set is unlikely to take more than a couple of watts when
"Switched off using the remote control" (we still run an old Panasonic
CRT telly which draws only a couple of watts in that state). The
'standby' consumption of a lot of STBs can be virtually unchanged from
its active state and you could be taliking of a figure of from 10 to
25 watt standby with perhaps just another 2 to 5 watts when active.

If your wallwart phone chargers are of the lightweight smpsu type,
You can forget about them. Their standby not charging consumption is
typically a 1/4 watt or less for any such chargers sold during the
past half decade or so.

If you buy a plug in 'energy monitor' you can test this for yourself
anyway (although most digital monitors struggle to show a valid
reading for loads less than half a watt - you can plug a whole bunch
into an extension lead and test them four or 6 at a time (if you have
that many!) to get a more accurate assessment).

A plug in energy monitor will give you a chance to check the weekly
total consumption of things like fridges / freezers (any white goods
items that are run on an intermittent weekly basis). That should give
you a good idea of which items are true 'energy hogs' worthy of
replacement with more efficient models and which ones to leave well
alone on account of their very low consumption (i.e. don't waste your
own energy and wear and tear on the socket switch for things like
permanently plugged in phone chargers if, at best, it's only going to
shave 25 pence off the annual electricity bill per such charger.

Prioritise: make sure there isn't a 'phantom load', make sure the
meter's not over-reading, then deal with your energy hogs (remember to
'fry the biggest fish first before considering the tiddlers :-)

HTH & HAND
--
J B Good

In message , Johny B Good
writes

Prioritise: make sure there isn't a 'phantom load', make sure the
meter's not over-reading, then deal with your energy hogs (remember to
'fry the biggest fish first before considering the tiddlers :-)

Lots of good advice and a reality check. Thank you.
--
Graeme

On 22/09/2014 10:44, News wrote:

A bit OT, but our electricity usage has always seemed incredibly high to
me. Not how much we pay, but the actual units used. Looking back, the
last time I read the meter was 26.09.13, which is almost exactly a year
ago. Reading it today, I find we have used 9128 units over a year.

No electric heating. No tumble dryer. Just the usual washing machine,
dishwasher, two fridges/freezers, two desktops, two laptops, kettle,
lighting etc. An I naive, or is that a lot of units?


Get a energy monitor
The sensor just clips onto your incoming feed wire.

Link to a meter on Amazon Uk site
http://tinyurl.com/kra9oxx

They tend to be really useful for a couple of days while you discover
which appliances are taking the power. I have mine next to my TV and
glance at it last thing at night to see if anything power hungry has
been left on.

If you are thinking of buying one you can usually find the manual
on-line first.

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

In article , alan_m
scribeth thus
On 22/09/2014 10:44, News wrote:

A bit OT, but our electricity usage has always seemed incredibly high to
me. Not how much we pay, but the actual units used. Looking back, the
last time I read the meter was 26.09.13, which is almost exactly a year
ago. Reading it today, I find we have used 9128 units over a year.

No electric heating. No tumble dryer. Just the usual washing machine,
dishwasher, two fridges/freezers, two desktops, two laptops, kettle,
lighting etc. An I naive, or is that a lot of units?


Get a energy monitor
The sensor just clips onto your incoming feed wire.

Link to a meter on Amazon Uk site
http://tinyurl.com/kra9oxx

They tend to be really useful for a couple of days while you discover
which appliances are taking the power. I have mine next to my TV and
glance at it last thing at night to see if anything power hungry has
been left on.

If you are thinking of buying one you can usually find the manual
on-line first.


I've just been sent one from EON for another location but it's been very
interesting looking at the power consumed here some of which is used in
an office outside and workshop and the house but there is an odd 17
watts there with everything tuned off apart from a lighting circuit and
everything is switched off on that too. But still the 17 watt load!

However if you switch the main incomer off then the reading on the unit
does drop to zero.

Interesting to see just how much all that IT and phone PC and the other
bits and bobs take up;!. Theres gonna be a cull of power consuming
devices left on all 24 hours here before long..
--
Tony Sayer

In article , tony sayer
writes

I've just been sent one from EON for another location but it's been very
interesting looking at the power consumed here some of which is used in
an office outside and workshop and the house but there is an odd 17
watts there with everything tuned off apart from a lighting circuit and
everything is switched off on that too. But still the 17 watt load!

However if you switch the main incomer off then the reading on the unit
does drop to zero.

Interesting to see just how much all that IT and phone PC and the other
bits and bobs take up;!. Theres gonna be a cull of power consuming
devices left on all 24 hours here before long..

Please don't, walk out re-climb some aerial, go for a a drive, a walk,
anything but please don't lose any sleep over those 17W ;-/
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 07:54:20 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Your annual energy consumption is close to a 3-bed semi PEAK *and*
E7-NSH combined kWhr.

9,000 IIRC, I wish our E7 use is 13,000/year plus 2500/year peak.

That is with electric heating appliances for 120 days of the year, per
day summer is 9 units, winter is 25-35 units and exceptionally cold
spell can be 40-50 units.

Only 120 days? One of the NS heaters was turned back on on the 5th
Aug, they were turned off on the 3rd June. So that's 300 ish days on.

Winter has a NS heater load of 8kW for 5 hours or more per night,
cold and windy and daily use will be 80 kWhr... Peak demand is 12 kW
for about an hour as the HW tank heats up. (3kW immersion, 1 kw base
load, 8 kW NS heating). Yes the meter tails do get warm...

--
Cheers
Dave.