As per the title, I've been shopping around t' internet for pricing
and availability of a replacement 3 cell 100mA NiCd battery (no solder
tags required).

The best VAT inclusive price I've seen so far is just over a fiver
for a 150mAH NiMH equivilent from Cell Pack Solutions
http://cellpacksolutions.co.uk/online-shop/varta-mempac-3-v150h-rechargeable-battery/
The correct 140mAH is the more usual AH figure quoted by most other
suppliers so I'd hope the modest 40% capacity boost is because they
went for an ultra low self discharge cell design - NiMH equivilents to
NiCd are usually 100 to 200% greater in capacity.

I haven't checked out the postage, perhaps I should... Well, that's
a case of TANSTAAFL if ever there was one! A whopping £3.99 for RM 1st
class recorded 1-3 working days! Once you've accounted for the pre VAT
price of £4.25 plus postage and 20% VAT, it comes to an eye watering
total of £9.89.

I guess I've now got a target price point for my local suppliers to
try and undercut. I suspect there's feck all chance of making a
cheaper purchase locally but I thought I'd seek out some opinions in
regard of there being any less greedy suppliers out there to which I
could turn.

Incidently, I'm not above resorting to using a smaller round cell
version of this battery (same length and diameter as the original -
hopefully cheaper and more available).

The Potterton has a high quality battery compartment which will
easily keep a secure grip on the smaller battery. I say high quality
because, when it came to cleaning the white fuzz of chemical deposits
from the positive battery contact, all it took was a few seconds under
the cold tap with a toothbrush to return the contact surface to a
pristine condition. Pretty good considering it's probably been furred
up like that for the last 10 or 15 years of the battery's 25+ years of
service.
--
J B Good

What do you want to pay?

Is the difference worth your time?

Nah
Just spend the whole tenner & move on ffs?

Jim K

On Thu, 28 Aug 2014 15:40:48 -0700 (PDT), JimK
wrote:

What do you want to pay?

Is the difference worth your time?

Nah
Just spend the whole tenner & move on ffs?


Well Jim, that was one thought I had at the back of my mind, along
with another thought that I could just simply carry on running without
a backup battery as I have done for the past 10 to 15 years and save
the money for better things. :-)
--
J B Good

On 28/08/14 23:27, Johny B Good wrote:
I guess I've now got a target price point for my local suppliers to
try and undercut. I suspect there's feck all chance of making a
cheaper purchase locally but I thought I'd seek out some opinions in
regard of there being any less greedy suppliers out there to which I
could turn

There comes a point where I calculate that to actually get in the car
and drive to a shop that carries most items costs me around £5...I don't
baulk at £3.95 postage at all, and if you spend more than an hour
finding a cheaper alternative you have in fact wasted at notional rates
another tenner.



--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On 29/08/14 04:10, Johny B Good wrote:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2014 15:40:48 -0700 (PDT), JimK
wrote:

What do you want to pay?

Is the difference worth your time?

Nah
Just spend the whole tenner & move on ffs?


Well Jim, that was one thought I had at the back of my mind, along
with another thought that I could just simply carry on running without
a backup battery as I have done for the past 10 to 15 years and save
the money for better things. :-)

Yes.

YES.

Its like the video card fan in this machine which has been dead jammed
and silent fr at least 3 years. yer man said 'refanning that would cost
as much as a new card' and although the temp monitoring software says
its getting up to 80C or more, its rated to 90C..

Now when it comes to de-coking the aga, its an hours work to save £100
and that IS worth doing. That's a week of groceries, that is.



--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On 29/08/2014 04:10, Johny B Good wrote:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2014 15:40:48 -0700 (PDT), JimK
wrote:

What do you want to pay?

Is the difference worth your time?

Nah
Just spend the whole tenner & move on ffs?


Well Jim, that was one thought I had at the back of my mind, along
with another thought that I could just simply carry on running without
a backup battery as I have done for the past 10 to 15 years and save
the money for better things. :-)

Depends how often you have power cuts. Where I live it would quickly
drive you crazy if the boiler clock reset to midnight every time (like
the blasted cookers do and then refuse to play until you set the time).

Regards,
Martin Brown

On 29/08/14 11:37, Martin Brown wrote:
On 29/08/2014 04:10, Johny B Good wrote:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2014 15:40:48 -0700 (PDT), JimK
wrote:

What do you want to pay?

Is the difference worth your time?

Nah
Just spend the whole tenner & move on ffs?


Well Jim, that was one thought I had at the back of my mind, along
with another thought that I could just simply carry on running without
a backup battery as I have done for the past 10 to 15 years and save
the money for better things. :-)

Depends how often you have power cuts. Where I live it would quickly
drive you crazy if the boiler clock reset to midnight every time (like
the blasted cookers do and then refuse to play until you set the time).

In which case less than a tenner is value innit?

Regards,
Martin Brown


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On Fri, 29 Aug 2014 11:37:07 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 29/08/2014 04:10, Johny B Good wrote:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2014 15:40:48 -0700 (PDT), JimK
wrote:

What do you want to pay?

Is the difference worth your time?

Nah
Just spend the whole tenner & move on ffs?


Well Jim, that was one thought I had at the back of my mind, along
with another thought that I could just simply carry on running without
a backup battery as I have done for the past 10 to 15 years and save
the money for better things. :-)

Depends how often you have power cuts. Where I live it would quickly
drive you crazy if the boiler clock reset to midnight every time (like
the blasted cookers do and then refuse to play until you set the time).


That's the key thing. Apart from one 3 hour outage over 20 years ago
and a period of modest brownouts about ten Christamases ago, my UPSes
have never been called upon to 'save the day'.

The mains has been so reliable that ever since the batteries on my
big 2KVA UPS failed nearly two years ago, the only UPSes still
protecting anything are the BackUPS500 protecting the NAS server
box[1] and my first UPS ever, an Emerson AC30(?) which is meant to
protect the supply to the VM Superhub.

This last unit provided power to a lamp stand, with a 15W CFL fitted,
strategically located on the first half landing to illuminate the
toilet (where the kids could complete their homework assignments for
the evening of that 3 hour outage) as well as provide some
illumination for the stairs and hallway.

The mains had failed just before I was going out to an amateur radio
club meeting so I was able to move the little UPS from its usual
location to set up some strategic lighting to save the XYL and sprogs
from being left totally in the dark, apart from a candle or two and
some torches.

By the time I returned, some three hours or so later, the mains had
been restored just prior to my homecoming. The UPS had managed to run
the 'emergency lighting' for all of that time without exhausting its
battery.

Getting back to the issue of the Potterton controller, it would still
be nice not to have to 're-program' it every time I felt the need to
shut the power off for maintenance jobs. As things stand, I'm loth to
do so which means any such maintenance tends to be put off
indefinitely.

Since mains outages are so very rare where we live, I can afford to
take my time over finding a replacement so have the luxury of keeping
my eye out for any suitable 'donor' NiCd (or NiMH) packs I might spot
in a flea market stall or junk shop. The original mempac uses oval
shaped cells (oval as in 'racetrack oval, that is!) which could easily
be substituted with round cells of the same diameter and length so my
choice of a donor battery is quite wide. :-)

[1] Mention of which, I've still got an outstanding firmware update
that was issued, literally, 4 calender months ago. The server is now
showing almost 208 days of up time. It's high time I updated the
firmware and used the opportunity to check the condition of the
battery in the BackUPS 500. It's been quite a few years since I last
ran an endurance test on this unit.
--
J B Good

On Fri, 29 Aug 2014 08:46:14 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 28/08/14 23:27, Johny B Good wrote:
I guess I've now got a target price point for my local suppliers to
try and undercut. I suspect there's feck all chance of making a
cheaper purchase locally but I thought I'd seek out some opinions in
regard of there being any less greedy suppliers out there to which I
could turn

There comes a point where I calculate that to actually get in the car
and drive to a shop that carries most items costs me around £5...I don't
baulk at £3.95 postage at all, and if you spend more than an hour
finding a cheaper alternative you have in fact wasted at notional rates
another tenner.

This is all too true. :-(

I suppose it depends on how much value you place on the benefit of
having a functioning Mempac battery fitted into the controller. In my
case, it's not so critical for every day operation with the mains
supply proving, thus far, to be as reliable as it has been over the
past 30 years or so where I live.

My main hope in posting my query was that someone else in this group
may have already dealt with this issue in a remarkably economic way
and would jump at the excuse to disseminate their hard won knowledge.
:-) If you don't ask, you'll never find out so it's worth a punt
before wandering off into the wilderness of commercial reality.
--
J B Good

On 29/08/2014 15:40, Johny B Good wrote:

Since mains outages are so very rare where we live, I can afford to
take my time over finding a replacement so have the luxury of keeping
my eye out for any suitable 'donor' NiCd (or NiMH) packs I might spot
in a flea market stall or junk shop. The original mempac uses oval
shaped cells (oval as in 'racetrack oval, that is!) which could easily
be substituted with round cells of the same diameter and length so my
choice of a donor battery is quite wide. :-)

Doesn't RS do them for ~£6 and at a local trade counter for cash they
probably won't ask too many questions. I can't recall what their minimum
order value is for mail order or try RapidOnline.

Regards,
Martin Brown

On Fri, 29 Aug 2014 16:29:47 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 29/08/2014 15:40, Johny B Good wrote:

Since mains outages are so very rare where we live, I can afford to
take my time over finding a replacement so have the luxury of keeping
my eye out for any suitable 'donor' NiCd (or NiMH) packs I might spot
in a flea market stall or junk shop. The original mempac uses oval
shaped cells (oval as in 'racetrack oval, that is!) which could easily
be substituted with round cells of the same diameter and length so my
choice of a donor battery is quite wide. :-)

Doesn't RS do them for ~£6 and at a local trade counter for cash they
probably won't ask too many questions. I can't recall what their minimum
order value is for mail order or try RapidOnline.


Thanks Martin. I've just checked out the Rapidonline site and the
price, delivered, works out to a total of "£10.67". This is for the
solder wire tagged version (I can easily remove the tags if they don't
list the tagless version as seems to be a common failing with a lot of
these suppliers). A more careful search for "VARTA Mempac 3/V150H"
only reveals the tagged versions.

Mind you, I haven't yet tried the more obvious Sheds like B&Q, Plumb
Centre and Wickes so I think it's time to confirm my worst fears and
take a peek.

Well, I've just checked out that list of "Usual Suspects" and I have
to say, with disappointing results (i.e.none!). However, I have
noticed the obscene pricing by Wickes on their 4 x AA NiMH cell packs
at a staggering £7.99 !!!

Sadly, they all met my expectations for disappointment so no
surprises there. :-(
--
J B Good

On Fri, 29 Aug 2014 15:53:08 +0100, Johny B Good
wrote:

On Fri, 29 Aug 2014 08:46:14 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 28/08/14 23:27, Johny B Good wrote:
I guess I've now got a target price point for my local suppliers to
try and undercut. I suspect there's feck all chance of making a
cheaper purchase locally but I thought I'd seek out some opinions in
regard of there being any less greedy suppliers out there to which I
could turn

There comes a point where I calculate that to actually get in the car
and drive to a shop that carries most items costs me around £5...I don't
baulk at £3.95 postage at all, and if you spend more than an hour
finding a cheaper alternative you have in fact wasted at notional rates
another tenner.

This is all too true. :-(

I suppose it depends on how much value you place on the benefit of
having a functioning Mempac battery fitted into the controller. In my
case, it's not so critical for every day operation with the mains
supply proving, thus far, to be as reliable as it has been over the
past 30 years or so where I live.

My main hope in posting my query was that someone else in this group
may have already dealt with this issue in a remarkably economic way
and would jump at the excuse to disseminate their hard won knowledge.
:-)
If you don't ask, you'll never find out so it's worth a punt
before wandering off into the wilderness of commercial reality.

Well, for the benefit of those who like "Closure" and didn't spot my
response to the "Coin Battery" thread started just 2 1/2 hours prior
to my last post above, CPC got a mention as a supplier who do free
deliveries on orders that meet their minimum 5 quid order value on
card transactions.

I posted a query to the group as to whether or not they sold that
Varta Memtec battery on account the site was down for maintenance when
I tried to check it out in the wee small hours yesterday. I'd posted
the question as a reminder to myslef as much as expecting someone else
to "Do My Homework For Me".

Sure enough when I downloaded the latest batch of news postings and
caught myself back up with the "Coin Battery" thread, reminding me to
check out CPC, it turns out that they sell the solder tagged version
for a mere £3.94 +VAT. Not too surprisingly, the tagless one, for
which the controller is designed to accept, was more expensive
("Supply & Demand" effect), staggeringly, almost double the price
which took it well over the 5 quid minimum for free delivery.

Since it's fairly trivial to remove the spot welded solder tags off
the cheaper battery, I ordered that along with a couple of other
useful items to pad the price up to £5.53 +VAT (allowing for the VAT
about £1.50 cheaper than if I'd bought the tagless battery on its
own).

In the end, I was able to source the battery (along with a couple of
other useful items) for a total of just £6.64 delivered, over 3 quid
cheaper than any of the other suppliers I'd found!

It might seem a trivial saving to most but I'm not exactly awash with
spare cash so it was worth the wait for, as Mr McCawber might well
have said, "Something (better) is bound to turn up." which indeed it
did. :-)
--
J B Good

On Fri, 29 Aug 2014 15:53:08 +0100, Johny B Good
wrote:

I suppose it depends on how much value you place on the benefit of
having a functioning Mempac battery fitted into the controller. In my
case, it's not so critical for every day operation with the mains
supply proving, thus far, to be as reliable as it has been over the
past 30 years or so where I live.

My main hope in posting my query was that someone else in this group
may have already dealt with this issue in a remarkably economic way
and would jump at the excuse to disseminate their hard won knowledge.
:-) If you don't ask, you'll never find out so it's worth a punt
before wandering off into the wilderness of commercial reality.

Done similar; when I couldn't find the exact battery (or at an
exhorbitant price) I made an external pack and encased it in a similar
surface-mount unit to the controller. Looked fine, and not out of
place.

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
Doesn't RS do them for ~£6 and at a local trade counter for cash they
probably won't ask too many questions. I can't recall what their minimum
order value is for mail order or try RapidOnline.

The days of RS only selling to genuine trade customers are long since gone.

Rapid have a minimum charge too.

CPC, because of their low minimum charge and free postage are *generally*
the best bet for small value orders. Once you've gone beyond a minimum
charge and gone high enough to get free postage, Rapid are pretty close.
Depending on just what you're buying. Farnell are also worth a punt too. I
recently wanted a new (old) Antex iron, and Farnell had the best price
anywhere - and by quite some margin. RS tend to be my last resort for
things I can't get elsewhere.

--
*Too many clicks spoil the browse *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 03:59:52 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:

On Fri, 29 Aug 2014 15:53:08 +0100, Johny B Good
wrote:

I suppose it depends on how much value you place on the benefit of
having a functioning Mempac battery fitted into the controller. In my
case, it's not so critical for every day operation with the mains
supply proving, thus far, to be as reliable as it has been over the
past 30 years or so where I live.

My main hope in posting my query was that someone else in this group
may have already dealt with this issue in a remarkably economic way
and would jump at the excuse to disseminate their hard won knowledge.
:-) If you don't ask, you'll never find out so it's worth a punt
before wandering off into the wilderness of commercial reality.

Done similar; when I couldn't find the exact battery (or at an
exhorbitant price) I made an external pack and encased it in a similar
surface-mount unit to the controller. Looked fine, and not out of
place.

That's it for me too. I wasn't desperate so I was prepared to just
keep my eye out for either an old battery pack's worth of canditate
cells with 'goodish' ones I could canabilse or something in better
nick that would fit the bill.

As it happened, I discovered the solution in CPC's minimum (pre-VAT)
5 quid order facility with free postage on card transactions so
problem solved. :-)
--
J B Good

On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 17:18:31 +0100, Johny B Good
wrote:

On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 03:59:52 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:

On Fri, 29 Aug 2014 15:53:08 +0100, Johny B Good
wrote:

I suppose it depends on how much value you place on the benefit of
having a functioning Mempac battery fitted into the controller. In my
case, it's not so critical for every day operation with the mains
supply proving, thus far, to be as reliable as it has been over the
past 30 years or so where I live.

My main hope in posting my query was that someone else in this group
may have already dealt with this issue in a remarkably economic way
and would jump at the excuse to disseminate their hard won knowledge.
:-) If you don't ask, you'll never find out so it's worth a punt
before wandering off into the wilderness of commercial reality.

Done similar; when I couldn't find the exact battery (or at an
exhorbitant price) I made an external pack and encased it in a similar
surface-mount unit to the controller. Looked fine, and not out of
place.

That's it for me too. I wasn't desperate so I was prepared to just
keep my eye out for either an old battery pack's worth of canditate
cells with 'goodish' ones I could canabilse or something in better
nick that would fit the bill.

As it happened, I discovered the solution in CPC's minimum (pre-VAT)
5 quid order facility with free postage on card transactions so
problem solved. :-)

And, the parcel arrived in the midday post yesterday. It took me
less than ten minutes to remove the battery tags and dress the spot
weld pips with a file to add another three quid's worth of value to
it. :-)

I've installed it into the controller and verified it allowed it to
maintain the time when switched off at the mains. I'm leaving it
switched for 24 hours or so (I haven't turned the boiler back on -
still waiting for the winter season) to recharge the battery which was
showing 1.25333v/cell before I started adding value to it.

I came across the invoice for the Bosch 40W E14 oven lamp this
evening and saw that it had cost me nearly 6 quid! (VAT inclusive
price). Making up the order value with a 40W E14 oven lamp cost me
just one fifth the price of the Bosch sourced one. The 60p audio lead
I had to add to get over the 5 quid minimum order hump will _probably_
come in handy sometime in the next decade or so I'm sure.

All in all, a very satisfactory resolution to my quest (and possibly
a useful hint to others in need of a cheap replacement controller
backup battery).

Now all I have to do is gird up my loins to tackle that awkwardly
placed Honeywell diverter valve. :-(
--
J B Good