Ed Sirett wrote:

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 14:38:52 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:


On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 13:41:00 GMT, (Adrian Sims) wrote:


On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 08:59:22 -0000, "stuart noble"
wrote:


Get some citric acid crystals from the chemist (100 gms about 60p IIRC).

I was recently in a supermarket in spain and for some reason found
myself in the household chemicals aisle. (What a great way to spend
part of your holiday).

I spied some stuff which appeared to be some sort of descaler and
eventually managed to work out that it was hydrochloric acid. Every
supermarket seems to have it (always right next to the household
ammonia - another chemical now rather uncommon in the UK).

Nice that you can still buy dangerous chemicals within the EU!
I would like to put HCl into my kettle and toilet from time to time.
(Actually I remember when I was young you could buy it here under the
name "spirit of salt").

Adrian


You can buy it as brick acid, I believe, from DIY stores and builders
merchants.


Slightly weaker HCl is also available in 5 litre tubs as 'patio cleaner'.

Just remember ANY cement joints in the drains will be eroded by the
acid, do it too often and trouble awaits, the water companies don't like
it either, not only due to drain damage, but it kills the microbes in
the sewerage farms...

Niel, with a rather large acid treatment plant at work!

When I moved in about 2 years ago, the bowl below the water line was
badly stained a brown colour. Thinking it was the obvious, I
eventually took the plunge to see if it would be easy to remove. It
simply wiped off and I had a perfectly white bowl.
However, the bowl is again starting to stain. It is flushed after
every use and the water is clear, there is no staining in the cistern.
Using a toilet brush would prevent anything building up over time, but
what would be causing it?


David

"David" wrote in message
...

When I moved in about 2 years ago, the bowl below the water line was
badly stained a brown colour. Thinking it was the obvious, I
eventually took the plunge to see if it would be easy to remove. It
simply wiped off and I had a perfectly white bowl.
However, the bowl is again starting to stain. It is flushed after
every use and the water is clear, there is no staining in the cistern.
Using a toilet brush would prevent anything building up over time, but
what would be causing it?


David



The water may look perfectly clear, but I can assure you it ain't. With
water standing in the bowl for any length of time, the small particles do
settle out against the porcelain. Try taking a white cup and filling it
with water from your tap, then let it stand on the window sill till it dries
out. You'll be amazed at what you find after all the water is gone.


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David wrote in message ...

When I moved in about 2 years ago, the bowl below the water line was
badly stained a brown colour. Thinking it was the obvious, I
eventually took the plunge to see if it would be easy to remove. It
simply wiped off and I had a perfectly white bowl.
However, the bowl is again starting to stain. It is flushed after
every use and the water is clear, there is no staining in the cistern.
Using a toilet brush would prevent anything building up over time, but
what would be causing it?
Get some citric acid crystals from the chemist (100 gms about 60p IIRC). Tip
the whole lot into the bowl and use a long handled washing up brush to get
it up to the rim. You may need to do this on and off for a couple of hours.
If you can be bothered to temporarily block the WC with a towel or
something, you can just leave it overnight.
IME this treatment lasts for a good couple of years. Once you get rid of the
salts, the colour can't build up so easily.

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 08:59:22 -0000, "stuart noble"
wrote:

Get some citric acid crystals from the chemist (100 gms about 60p IIRC).

I was recently in a supermarket in spain and for some reason found
myself in the household chemicals aisle. (What a great way to spend
part of your holiday).

I spied some stuff which appeared to be some sort of descaler and
eventually managed to work out that it was hydrochloric acid. Every
supermarket seems to have it (always right next to the household
ammonia - another chemical now rather uncommon in the UK).

Nice that you can still buy dangerous chemicals within the EU!
I would like to put HCl into my kettle and toilet from time to time.
(Actually I remember when I was young you could buy it here under the
name "spirit of salt").

Adrian

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 13:41:00 GMT, (Adrian Sims) wrote:

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 08:59:22 -0000, "stuart noble"
wrote:

Get some citric acid crystals from the chemist (100 gms about 60p IIRC).

I was recently in a supermarket in spain and for some reason found
myself in the household chemicals aisle. (What a great way to spend
part of your holiday).

I spied some stuff which appeared to be some sort of descaler and
eventually managed to work out that it was hydrochloric acid. Every
supermarket seems to have it (always right next to the household
ammonia - another chemical now rather uncommon in the UK).

Nice that you can still buy dangerous chemicals within the EU!
I would like to put HCl into my kettle and toilet from time to time.
(Actually I remember when I was young you could buy it here under the
name "spirit of salt").

Adrian


You can buy it as brick acid, I believe, from DIY stores and builders
merchants.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

You can buy it as brick acid, I believe, from DIY stores and
builders merchants.

I'm planning to get some brick acid and pour it into my toilet. What
concentration would you recommend?

I've already tried emptying the trap and leaving it 24 hours with 2 litres
neat bleach filling the U-bend. It made it much cleaner, but there's still
loads of scale and general nastiness.

Christian.

In article ,
"Christian McArdle" writes:
You can buy it as brick acid, I believe, from DIY stores and
builders merchants.

I'm planning to get some brick acid and pour it into my toilet. What
concentration would you recommend?

Doesn't need to be strong -- the scale dissolves easily with no
effort, just give it time. I use around a spoonful of Furnox
descaller (DS-3? -- large tubs available from B&Q or plumbers
merchant) dissolved in a pint of warm water and then poured
into the u-trap and left for an hour or overnight. You could
add a few drops of washing up liquid too if it's really bad,
but that's not necessary unless it looks really bad. (Don't add any
other cleaners as you might end up releasing clouds of chlorine
gas.) After leaving to soak, one wipe with the toilet brush and
flush, and brilliantly cleen loo, much more effectively and for
far less cost than any of the proprietry loo cleaners.

I've already tried emptying the trap and leaving it 24 hours with 2 litres
neat bleach filling the U-bend. It made it much cleaner, but there's still
loads of scale and general nastiness.

Bleach doesn't really clean anything like this, it just makes
the dirt invisible (for a short length of time).

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 15:06:29 -0000, Christian McArdle wrote:

I've already tried emptying the trap and leaving it 24 hours with 2
litres neat bleach filling the U-bend. It made it much cleaner, but
there's still loads of scale and general nastiness.

Well bleach won't shift scale, you need a descaler...

Wander along to your local supermarket and pick up a bottle of "Harpic
100% Limescale Remover" works here.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Adrian Sims wrote:

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 08:59:22 -0000, "stuart noble"
wrote:


Get some citric acid crystals from the chemist (100 gms about 60p IIRC).


I was recently in a supermarket in spain and for some reason found
myself in the household chemicals aisle. (What a great way to spend
part of your holiday).

I spied some stuff which appeared to be some sort of descaler and
eventually managed to work out that it was hydrochloric acid. Every
supermarket seems to have it (always right next to the household
ammonia - another chemical now rather uncommon in the UK).

Nice that you can still buy dangerous chemicals within the EU!
I would like to put HCl into my kettle and toilet from time to time.
(Actually I remember when I was young you could buy it here under the
name "spirit of salt").



You still can, in decent builders merchants and hardware shoppes. Used
as brick cleaner.

GFor bogs tho its a tad drastic. Most of teh proprietary descalers work
well, and then one of those loobloo things chucked in teh cistern
ocasionally works well too.

Or fitr a water softener. That stops it forming in the first place.

Bad enscalation can be chipped out, complete with its brown stains...not
a nice job.


Adrian

Christian McArdle wrote:

You can buy it as brick acid, I believe, from DIY stores and
builders merchants.


I'm planning to get some brick acid and pour it into my toilet. What
concentration would you recommend?



Full strength, and leave it, slap the toilet lid down and put your
extractor in fill blast, or open a window. It will degrade rubber and
plastic seals and pipes so don't leave it more than overnoght, then
follow up with bleach to neutralise, wait, and do it again if necessary.


I've already tried emptying the trap and leaving it 24 hours with 2 litres
neat bleach filling the U-bend. It made it much cleaner, but there's still
loads of scale and general nastiness.


Neat bleach? Use neat caustic soda crystals :-) Turns turds into soap
and silt that does!




Christian.

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 15:06:29 -0000, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

You can buy it as brick acid, I believe, from DIY stores and
builders merchants.

I'm planning to get some brick acid and pour it into my toilet. What
concentration would you recommend?

I'm not certain how concentrated it is and have not used it for a
toilet application. Since you probably don't want something too
vicious I would have thought diluting 5:1 would be a good start.
Add acid to water, of course, and you definitely do not want any
bleach around because copious amounts of chlorine gas would be
released. You can always increase the concentration of acid if
needed.



I've already tried emptying the trap and leaving it 24 hours with 2 litres
neat bleach filling the U-bend. It made it much cleaner, but there's still
loads of scale and general nastiness.

Christian.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 16:12:37 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 15:06:29 -0000, Christian McArdle wrote:

I've already tried emptying the trap and leaving it 24 hours with 2
litres neat bleach filling the U-bend. It made it much cleaner, but
there's still loads of scale and general nastiness.

Well bleach won't shift scale, you need a descaler...

Wander along to your local supermarket and pick up a bottle of "Harpic
100% Limescale Remover" works here.

This is also an acid (phosphoric, IIRC, like in Coke).

Again, don't mix with bleach.......


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"David" wrote in message
...

When I moved in about 2 years ago, the bowl below the water line was
badly stained a brown colour. Thinking it was the obvious, I
eventually took the plunge to see if it would be easy to remove. It
simply wiped off and I had a perfectly white bowl.
However, the bowl is again starting to stain. It is flushed after
every use and the water is clear, there is no staining in the cistern.
Using a toilet brush would prevent anything building up over time, but
what would be causing it?


David



Sterident tablet over night?
Works wonders on coffee mugs!

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 14:38:52 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 13:41:00 GMT, (Adrian Sims) wrote:

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 08:59:22 -0000, "stuart noble"
wrote:

Get some citric acid crystals from the chemist (100 gms about 60p IIRC).

I was recently in a supermarket in spain and for some reason found
myself in the household chemicals aisle. (What a great way to spend
part of your holiday).

I spied some stuff which appeared to be some sort of descaler and
eventually managed to work out that it was hydrochloric acid. Every
supermarket seems to have it (always right next to the household
ammonia - another chemical now rather uncommon in the UK).

Nice that you can still buy dangerous chemicals within the EU!
I would like to put HCl into my kettle and toilet from time to time.
(Actually I remember when I was young you could buy it here under the
name "spirit of salt").

Adrian


You can buy it as brick acid, I believe, from DIY stores and builders
merchants.

Slightly weaker HCl is also available in 5 litre tubs as 'patio cleaner'.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 16:44:45 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

Wander along to your local supermarket and pick up a bottle of
"Harpic 100% Limescale Remover" works here.

This is also an acid (phosphoric, IIRC, like in Coke).

Can't be bothered to go upstairs to look again... but undoubtedly an
acid of some sort.

Again, don't mix with bleach.......

And if you've loo full of bleach don't pee in it, for the same
reason...


--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

The Natural Philosopher wrote in message ...
Neat bleach? Use neat caustic soda crystals :-) Turns turds into soap
Only if they're oily.

Citric has the advantage that you can....
buy a small amount
from round the corner
for not much money
which is safe to handle
and doesn't smell
and as is plenty strong enough to do the job.
Using hydrochloric indoors is not my idea of fun.

"stuart noble" wrote in news:wNJvb.1399
:

Only if they're oily.


I'll be ok then, I don't get up till late

mike r

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 13:36:20 -0000, "stuart noble"
wrote:

Citric has the advantage that you can....
buy a small amount
from round the corner
for not much money
which is safe to handle
and doesn't smell
and as is plenty strong enough to do the job.
Using hydrochloric indoors is not my idea of fun.



Since the staining rubs off very easily, I think I'll just invest in
toilet brush and give it a quick rub down each week.



David

stuart noble wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote in message ...

Neat bleach? Use neat caustic soda crystals :-) Turns turds into soap

Only if they're oily.



They usually are. Caustc turns most organic materials into something
water soluble anyway.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
stuart noble wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote in message ...

Neat bleach? Use neat caustic soda crystals :-) Turns turds into soap

Only if they're oily.



They usually are. Caustc turns most organic materials into something
water soluble anyway.



What would Crissie and Aggie do? Probably throw a ton of baking soda down
there with some vinegar!