Me and a mate are getting in on the good weather and tarting up my
wooden window frames and soffits.

Without the boring background stuff, I want to be able to mill halflap
profile into both long edges of softwood planking from stock about 1/2"
thick by 5" wide for the soffits - so they are easy to remove.

Halflap profile itself will be 1/4" deep by about 3/8"-1/2" wide. I need
just enough overlap to cope with shrinking plus a little to leave a
feature rebate visible.


What do I need to buy to make reasonably light work of this?


Ideally I'd like to have reusable items - so I'd prefer a 1/4" router
rather than 1/2" if it is man enough.


I'm open to the idea of either using enough "workmates" to hold the
plank (on edge or flat) and hand-run the router down it - or - a router
table. The table should be small and storable or I'm open to making
something simple and bespoke out of a sheet of ply and some 4x2 and
leaving it outside for the duration of the job (unbolting the router
obviously). But the router setup must not end up being more time
consuming than the actual project!

I should also note I do not have a level drive to work on - it's lumpy
and slopey.


I think once the basic method is established, I will be asking some
questions about the correct bearings, cutters, guides, etc.


I am not looking for sawmill speeds here - bear in mind each plank is
going to take a little time to fit, and a long time if it's the 3rd one
as that has to be trimmed for width to suit the wall. If it takes me 10
mins to do mill a plank 2m long both sides, that's OK - as long as it is
not fiddly.


Thanks in advance

Tim

Take courage. I've just got a router and although I found it all very
confusing at first once you get started it's quite straightforward. I
got a secondhand Bosch machine (a big heavy one) for £20. A real bargain
because the guy who had it was ill not long after he got it so it was
hardly ever used, then when he died his son had it but never used it
because he already had one that he liked.

Here's what I've learnt so far:
The Trend catalogue is the gold standard for quality cutters
You can get much cheaper cutters from Wickes and B & Q if you don't need
a fantastic finish
If possible get a 1/2" machine because they hold the cutter more rigidly
and will do heavier work if ever you need it
A 1/2" machine will work with 1/4" cutters, you just put an adaptor in.
Get a powerful machine (2kW) because it makes the work easier.
Use it on a fast speed for softwood when using a small cutter and take
it steady and you get a better result.
Get a plunge router. Can't see the point of the non-plunge ones.
Get one that has a fence with reasonably long arms.
Use eye protection.
Fasten the work down really firmly.

Hope this helps.

Bill

On 13/06/2014 11:15, Tim Watts wrote:

Me and a mate are getting in on the good weather and tarting up my
wooden window frames and soffits.

Without the boring background stuff, I want to be able to mill halflap
profile into both long edges of softwood planking from stock about 1/2"
thick by 5" wide for the soffits - so they are easy to remove.

Halflap profile itself will be 1/4" deep by about 3/8"-1/2" wide. I need
just enough overlap to cope with shrinking plus a little to leave a
feature rebate visible.

What do I need to buy to make reasonably light work of this?

In terms of the size of cut you are describing, you would be able to do
that with most routers. A medium sized 1/4" machine will do it -
probably best done in two passes. A larger 1/2" machine will do it in a
single cut.

Have a read through the Router FAQ for more info:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Router

Ideally I'd like to have reusable items - so I'd prefer a 1/4" router
rather than 1/2" if it is man enough.

To be fair, even a 500W laminate trimmer class machine will cut a 1/4"
deep 1/2" wide slot.

I'm open to the idea of either using enough "workmates" to hold the
plank (on edge or flat) and hand-run the router down it - or - a router

For that kind of work, handheld use is not too difficult. You can either
used a rebate cutter with a guide bearing, or use the router fence and a
straight fluted cutter.

For example, cutting a 1/2" x 1/2" rebate in a door frame:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ing_the_rebate

(note that running the fence on the opposite side of the stock from the
cutter is not best practice, but circumstances dictated in this case)

table. The table should be small and storable or I'm open to making
something simple and bespoke out of a sheet of ply and some 4x2 and
leaving it outside for the duration of the job (unbolting the router
obviously). But the router setup must not end up being more time
consuming than the actual project!

You probably don't need a table for this job. Tables come into their own
for using very large cutters that would be unsafe for handheld use, and
for moulding operations where you need very accurate alignment and
control during a cut.

I should also note I do not have a level drive to work on - it's lumpy
and slopey.

A couple of cheap folding saw horses will do the trick...

You can use additional sections of timber to widen the stock you are
routing if required - it makes balancing the machine on the edge of a
board easier.

I think once the basic method is established, I will be asking some
questions about the correct bearings, cutters, guides, etc.

Fire away when ready...

I am not looking for sawmill speeds here - bear in mind each plank is
going to take a little time to fit, and a long time if it's the 3rd one
as that has to be trimmed for width to suit the wall. If it takes me 10
mins to do mill a plank 2m long both sides, that's OK - as long as it is
not fiddly.

Rebating is not a fiddly job...



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 13/06/2014 11:15, Tim Watts wrote:
Me and a mate are getting in on the good weather and tarting up my
wooden window frames and soffits.

Without the boring background stuff, I want to be able to mill halflap
profile into both long edges of softwood planking from stock about 1/2"
thick by 5" wide for the soffits - so they are easy to remove.

Halflap profile itself will be 1/4" deep by about 3/8"-1/2" wide. I need
just enough overlap to cope with shrinking plus a little to leave a
feature rebate visible.


What do I need to buy to make reasonably light work of this?


Ideally I'd like to have reusable items - so I'd prefer a 1/4" router
rather than 1/2" if it is man enough.


I'm open to the idea of either using enough "workmates" to hold the
plank (on edge or flat) and hand-run the router down it - or - a router
table. The table should be small and storable or I'm open to making
something simple and bespoke out of a sheet of ply and some 4x2 and
leaving it outside for the duration of the job (unbolting the router
obviously). But the router setup must not end up being more time
consuming than the actual project!

I should also note I do not have a level drive to work on - it's lumpy
and slopey.


I think once the basic method is established, I will be asking some
questions about the correct bearings, cutters, guides, etc.


I am not looking for sawmill speeds here - bear in mind each plank is
going to take a little time to fit, and a long time if it's the 3rd one
as that has to be trimmed for width to suit the wall. If it takes me 10
mins to do mill a plank 2m long both sides, that's OK - as long as it is
not fiddly.


Thanks in advance

Tim

Might be worth considering a sawbench? It's how I'd do it if the wood is
reasonably straight

On 13/06/14 14:05, John Rumm wrote:

Thank you John. Extremely interesting stuff...

I've been thinking about getting a couple of these:

http://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/5...ustable%20legs

(Sealey FTAL1 trestle legs).

They have 4 adjustable legs that means I could set up on my wobbly drive.

They might do for this job - especially if I get a long bit of flat 6x2"
to act as a "thin bench" to clamp the soffit down (which being long and
1/2" thick will be a bit wobbly).


It had also occurred to me that I could later (and for different work)
use some 18mm ply with a bit of framing for stiffness to make a
loose-top workbench that would sit on these trestles. And maybe even
start to machine in some guide rails to make a poor man's router table.

That would be inexpensive and would flat pack for easy shed storage. And
could evolve at the expense of more ply.

Hmmm...

On 13/06/14 14:05, John Rumm wrote:

Rebating is not a fiddly job...

So if I clamped the piece face-up, how much width of rebate would a good
1/4" router do in a single pass, to about 1/4" depth of cut?

Or would I be better aiming to do a 1/2" wide cut in 2 passes at 1/8"
deep then 1/4" deep.

Sorry - I wasn't sure if you meant the passes were done at increasing
width or increasing depth....

Tim Watts wrote:

I've been thinking about getting a couple of these:

http://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/5...ustable%20legs

(Sealey FTAL1 trestle legs).

I got a pair of the Stanle faxmax saw horses

http://www.its.co.uk/pd/1-92-979-Stanley-FatMax-Aluminium-Adjustable-Saw-Horse-_STA192979.htm

Didn't pay that sort of price though (at least I don't think I did)
they're sturdy, adjustable height, make a decent temporary bench with
the addition of an old door or couple of sleepers

Tim Watts wrote:

I wasn't sure if you meant the passes were done at increasing
width or increasing depth....

Depth normally, the "turret" under the stop bar rotates to let you step
down in several (3 usually) passes.

On 13/06/14 19:01, Andy Burns wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:

I've been thinking about getting a couple of these:

http://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/5...ustable%20legs


(Sealey FTAL1 trestle legs).

I got a pair of the Stanle faxmax saw horses

http://www.its.co.uk/pd/1-92-979-Stanley-FatMax-Aluminium-Adjustable-Saw-Horse-_STA192979.htm


Didn't pay that sort of price though (at least I don't think I did)
they're sturdy, adjustable height, make a decent temporary bench with
the addition of an old door or couple of sleepers


Thank you - they look good and have the adjustable feet. I had not come
across them in my searches!

On 13/06/14 19:04, Andy Burns wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:

I wasn't sure if you meant the passes were done at increasing
width or increasing depth....

Depth normally, the "turret" under the stop bar rotates to let you step
down in several (3 usually) passes.



Ah - thank you...

On 13/06/2014 14:36, Tim Watts wrote:
On 13/06/14 14:05, John Rumm wrote:

Rebating is not a fiddly job...

So if I clamped the piece face-up, how much width of rebate would a good
1/4" router do in a single pass, to about 1/4" depth of cut?

Or would I be better aiming to do a 1/2" wide cut in 2 passes at 1/8"
deep then 1/4" deep.

Its probably the kind of cut i would take... it does depends a bit on
the type of wood. Some hardwoods route noticeably better than pine for
example.

Sorry - I wasn't sure if you meant the passes were done at increasing
width or increasing depth....

To be fair, could be either. Normally if using a cutter of the required
width, then you would step down depth. With a rebate cutter with a
bearing on it you could do the same, or do a first pass with the fence
set to space the bearing away from the edge a bit.





--
Cheers,

John.

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\================================================= ================/

On 13/06/2014 19:31, Tim Watts wrote:
On 13/06/14 19:04, Andy Burns wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:

I wasn't sure if you meant the passes were done at increasing
width or increasing depth....

Depth normally, the "turret" under the stop bar rotates to let you step
down in several (3 usually) passes.



Ah - thank you...

I normally set a plunge depth limit and then just estimate "less than
that" for the first pass, before plunging to the limit for the final pass.


--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Tim Watts wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

I got a pair of the Stanle faxmax saw horses
Didn't pay that sort of price though (at least I don't think I did)

Thank you - they look good and have the adjustable feet. I had not come
across them in my searches!

Just checked, I got them from toollineuk.com for £64 delivered the pair.

Andy Burns wrote:

Just checked, I got them from toollineuk.com for £64 delivered the pair.

Looks like they no longer stock the fatmax ones, only the plastic
stanley ones, and various other ones.

On 13/06/14 20:09, John Rumm wrote:
On 13/06/2014 14:36, Tim Watts wrote:
On 13/06/14 14:05, John Rumm wrote:

Rebating is not a fiddly job...

So if I clamped the piece face-up, how much width of rebate would a good
1/4" router do in a single pass, to about 1/4" depth of cut?

Or would I be better aiming to do a 1/2" wide cut in 2 passes at 1/8"
deep then 1/4" deep.

Its probably the kind of cut i would take... it does depends a bit on
the type of wood. Some hardwoods route noticeably better than pine for
example.

This will be plain ordinary untreated softwood. The soffits are very
sheltered so no point in using anything fancy and they will get 2 coats
of Sadolin anyway.

(Did use western red cedar for the gutterboards though - they take a
beating and are really hard to replace!)

Sorry - I wasn't sure if you meant the passes were done at increasing
width or increasing depth....

To be fair, could be either. Normally if using a cutter of the required
width, then you would step down depth. With a rebate cutter with a
bearing on it you could do the same, or do a first pass with the fence
set to space the bearing away from the edge a bit.


Cool -thank you

On 13/06/14 19:01, Andy Burns wrote:

http://www.its.co.uk/pd/1-92-979-Stanley-FatMax-Aluminium-Adjustable-Saw-Horse-_STA192979.htm


Didn't pay that sort of price though (at least I don't think I did)
they're sturdy, adjustable height, make a decent temporary bench with
the addition of an old door or couple of sleepers


Hi Andy,

Are the legs infinitely adjustable - or do they move in discrete steps?
If how, how much roughly? In other words do you still need thin packing
to get them "right" on uneven ground?

Cheers

Tim

Tim Watts wrote:

On 13/06/14 19:01, Andy Burns wrote:

http://www.its.co.uk/pd/1-92-979-Stanley-FatMax-Aluminium-Adjustable-Saw-Horse-_STA192979.htm

Are the legs infinitely adjustable - or do they move in discrete steps?

They have 1" stops with markings on each leg.

On 14/06/14 10:11, Andy Burns wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:

On 13/06/14 19:01, Andy Burns wrote:

http://www.its.co.uk/pd/1-92-979-Stanley-FatMax-Aluminium-Adjustable-Saw-Horse-_STA192979.htm


Are the legs infinitely adjustable - or do they move in discrete steps?

They have 1" stops with markings on each leg.



Thank you Andy. I have some rubber ladder pads - so in the worst case
those should take out any rocking.

On 13/06/2014 11:15, Tim Watts wrote:


Ideally I'd like to have reusable items - so I'd prefer a 1/4" router
rather than 1/2" if it is man enough.


Don't get 1/4" get an 8mm

8mm shank is much stronger, I have a TREND T5 and a collection of TREND
CraftPRO TCT cutters

8mm routers will also downsize to 1/4" collet ... but never bought a
single 1/4" shank bit


Lighter than a 1/2" for handheld work (I also have a T11 1/2" Router
but usually only used in a table)





--
UK SelfBuild: http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Selfbuild/

On 14/06/14 19:37, Rick Hughes wrote:
On 13/06/2014 11:15, Tim Watts wrote:


Ideally I'd like to have reusable items - so I'd prefer a 1/4" router
rather than 1/2" if it is man enough.


Don't get 1/4" get an 8mm

8mm shank is much stronger, I have a TREND T5 and a collection of TREND
CraftPRO TCT cutters

8mm routers will also downsize to 1/4" collet ... but never bought a
single 1/4" shank bit


Lighter than a 1/2" for handheld work (I also have a T11 1/2" Router
but usually only used in a table)

Thanks Rick - glad you mentioned that. Sounds like something I should
check out - not that there's any lack of benefit by the sound of it, if
it cam take 1/4" too!

On 14/06/2014 19:37, Rick Hughes wrote:
On 13/06/2014 11:15, Tim Watts wrote:


Ideally I'd like to have reusable items - so I'd prefer a 1/4" router
rather than 1/2" if it is man enough.


Don't get 1/4" get an 8mm

8mm shank is much stronger, I have a TREND T5 and a collection of TREND
CraftPRO TCT cutters

8mm routers will also downsize to 1/4" collet ... but never bought a
single 1/4" shank bit

The problem with 8mm shank cutters is they are far less readily
available. Trend to a reasonable range, but they are fairly pricey (good
quality - but sometimes you only need a cheap and cheerful one for a one
off job)

Lighter than a 1/2" for handheld work (I also have a T11 1/2" Router
but usually only used in a table)

Although I have the 8mm collet for my T5, I must confess I have never
used it. (I have also never broken a 1/4" shanked one either)

If you buy bits from the US (often cheaper including delivery they
getting them here) you are also unlikely to find 8mm.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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\================================================= ================/

On 13/06/14 11:15, Tim Watts wrote:
Me and a mate are getting in on the good weather and tarting up my
wooden window frames and soffits.

....

OK - going to get a couple of these:

http://www.toolandfix.com/toughbuilt...-adj-legs.html

With a couple of scaffold boards they'll make an excellent working
platform too for odd occasions.

But for me, couple of bits of 2x4 and a sheet of ply and i have an
instance but storable bench that will sit on my unlevel ground.

On 13/06/14 11:15, Tim Watts wrote:
Me and a mate are getting in on the good weather and tarting up my
wooden window frames and soffits.


Now to the router...

Decided on 1/4" handheld with 8mm collet option if possible.

Thicky questions What type and size of bit do I need to cut a
10-14mm wide x 8-10mm deep rebate in the edge of a softwood plank
(120x18mm)?

Will eventually be cutting a total of about 120m (linear) of rebate. But
in very small batches.


Do all straight bits cut on the end as well as the side (ie can you
plunge them) or do you have to come in from the edge?


I think it will be enough to guide the router with the built in edge
guide (proper name?) from whichever side of the plank works the easiest,
rather than use a bearing guide. Unless a bearing guide would work easier???

You can tell I have no clue!

What would be a reasonable choice of router? Trend T5 MkII looks nice.
Bit expensive. I doubt I will make fine cabinets but I will find other uses.

Any other makes worth a look?

Cheers - and thanks...

Tim

On Wed, 18 Jun 2014 14:10:50 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

On 13/06/14 11:15, Tim Watts wrote:
Me and a mate are getting in on the good weather and tarting up my
wooden window frames and soffits.

...

OK - going to get a couple of these:

http://www.toolandfix.com/toughbuilt...-adj-legs.html

With a couple of scaffold boards they'll make an excellent working
platform too for odd occasions.

But for me, couple of bits of 2x4 and a sheet of ply and i have an
instance but storable bench that will sit on my unlevel ground.

At 2(.0000)kg, how sturdy will they be? Surely that weight is a bit low for
a robust sawhorse.
If they are good, I would order a couple.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 18/06/14 17:24, PeterC wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jun 2014 14:10:50 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

On 13/06/14 11:15, Tim Watts wrote:
Me and a mate are getting in on the good weather and tarting up my
wooden window frames and soffits.

...

OK - going to get a couple of these:

http://www.toolandfix.com/toughbuilt...-adj-legs.html

With a couple of scaffold boards they'll make an excellent working
platform too for odd occasions.

But for me, couple of bits of 2x4 and a sheet of ply and i have an
instance but storable bench that will sit on my unlevel ground.

At 2(.0000)kg, how sturdy will they be? Surely that weight is a bit low for
a robust sawhorse.
If they are good, I would order a couple.


The reviews (in various places) seem good.

Don't forget they will have 10-15kg of ply/worktop across them acting as
a bench

On 18/06/2014 14:21, Tim Watts wrote:
On 13/06/14 11:15, Tim Watts wrote:
Me and a mate are getting in on the good weather and tarting up my
wooden window frames and soffits.


Now to the router...

Decided on 1/4" handheld with 8mm collet option if possible.

Thicky questions What type and size of bit do I need to cut a
10-14mm wide x 8-10mm deep rebate in the edge of a softwood plank
(120x18mm)?

Will eventually be cutting a total of about 120m (linear) of rebate. But
in very small batches.

You most commonly used and generally useful cutter would be a staight
fluted cutter like:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber...ers-1-4-6-35mm

Keep in mind that you can do wider cuts than the cutter diameter with
multiple passes and adjustment of the fence between cuts. You can do
narrower than the width of the cutter cuts at the edge of the wood - but
obviously not narrower ones in the middle of the wood (say when cutting
a dado or a mortice)

For ease of rebating, a rebating cutter is handy:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber...ter-cutter-set

These don't need a fence setup on the router*, so are quicker to use,
but they have slightly less flexibility in that they can only cut on the
edge and not be used for slots. (* although you can cut sizes other than
the ones provided directly by the bearings by using the fence)

The other option to consider is something like:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber...ing-1-2-12-7mm

You can use it as a straight fluted cutter, but also as a pattern
following trim bit. (stick you pattern on top of the wood, and use it to
churn out copies)

Do all straight bits cut on the end as well as the side (ie can you
plunge them) or do you have to come in from the edge?

The fluted cutters you can plunge - they plunges easiest if you also
traverse a bit while plunging. You can also get (very expensive) spiral
cutters that are particularly good for plunging. The bearing guided ones
you can only plunge on an edge.

I think it will be enough to guide the router with the built in edge
guide (proper name?) from whichever side of the plank works the easiest,
rather than use a bearing guide. Unless a bearing guide would work
easier???

If you can get a bearing guide that will do the cut you want in one hit
easily, then its slightly easier. Since with a 1/4" machine you are
unlikely to want to take a 1/2" x 1/2" cut in a single pass, there is
less benefit from a bearing guided cutter in this case.

You can tell I have no clue!

Should not worry, neither did any of us at one time, and you have the
advantage of being able to ask sensible questions!

What would be a reasonable choice of router? Trend T5 MkII looks nice.
Bit expensive. I doubt I will make fine cabinets but I will find other
uses.

I have a T5 MK1 and indeed it is a very nice machine- very smooth and
accurate, and absolutely no slop or backlash in the plunge mechanism.
The speed control is good, the plunge depth generous, the depth lock and
stop systems work, and the micro-adjustable fence is first rate.

However note that not all get on well with that design of machine (i.e.
clones of the layout of the Elu MOF routers) - some prefer ones that
have side handles more commonly seen on the larger 1/2" machines.

Any other makes worth a look?

Yup...

Makita routers tend to be quite simple and feature light - but they work
well, are easy to use and people generally like them. Something like:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/makita-rp0900x-router-230v

Is very basic and easy with good ergonomics. It lacks the sophistication
of the trend though with no speed control, soft start, micro adjustment
etc.

Ones like:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/makita-rp1110c-1-4-router

are on par with the trend (and to be fair also have better dust
collection), but its quite pricey.

Something like:

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/bosch-go...ional-r-p64801

Has a side handle design that you may prefer to the trend style while
still having most of the sophisticated features.

Dewalt also have some popular models:

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/dewalt-d...ixed-b-p130155

is an interesting deal with both bases.

This is their very popular T5 style machine:

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/dewalt-d...-router-p25456

--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Hiya,

On 18/06/14 21:30, John Rumm wrote:

You most commonly used and generally useful cutter would be a staight
fluted cutter like:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber...ers-1-4-6-35mm

I see...


Keep in mind that you can do wider cuts than the cutter diameter with
multiple passes and adjustment of the fence between cuts. You can do
narrower than the width of the cutter cuts at the edge of the wood - but
obviously not narrower ones in the middle of the wood (say when cutting
a dado or a mortice)

For ease of rebating, a rebating cutter is handy:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber...ter-cutter-set

The price is not bad. I assume you just lock the plunge depth so as to
take out 50% of the thickness and run it in from the end along to the
other end?

For the amount of work, this looks well worth it!

These don't need a fence setup on the router*, so are quicker to use,
but they have slightly less flexibility in that they can only cut on the
edge and not be used for slots. (* although you can cut sizes other than
the ones provided directly by the bearings by using the fence)

The other option to consider is something like:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber...ing-1-2-12-7mm


You can use it as a straight fluted cutter, but also as a pattern
following trim bit. (stick you pattern on top of the wood, and use it to
churn out copies)

That could be generally useful if I wanted to use a template for something.

Do all straight bits cut on the end as well as the side (ie can you
plunge them) or do you have to come in from the edge?

The fluted cutters you can plunge - they plunges easiest if you also
traverse a bit while plunging. You can also get (very expensive) spiral
cutters that are particularly good for plunging.

The spiral ones sounds a bit like a milling bit.

The bearing guided ones
you can only plunge on an edge.

OK - that is very useful to know.

I think it will be enough to guide the router with the built in edge
guide (proper name?) from whichever side of the plank works the easiest,
rather than use a bearing guide. Unless a bearing guide would work
easier???

If you can get a bearing guide that will do the cut you want in one hit
easily, then its slightly easier. Since with a 1/4" machine you are
unlikely to want to take a 1/2" x 1/2" cut in a single pass, there is
less benefit from a bearing guided cutter in this case.

Oh...

3/8" machine maybe?

You can tell I have no clue!

Should not worry, neither did any of us at one time, and you have the
advantage of being able to ask sensible questions!

What would be a reasonable choice of router? Trend T5 MkII looks nice.
Bit expensive. I doubt I will make fine cabinets but I will find other
uses.

I have a T5 MK1 and indeed it is a very nice machine- very smooth and
accurate, and absolutely no slop or backlash in the plunge mechanism.
The speed control is good, the plunge depth generous, the depth lock and
stop systems work, and the micro-adjustable fence is first rate.

However note that not all get on well with that design of machine (i.e.
clones of the layout of the Elu MOF routers) - some prefer ones that
have side handles more commonly seen on the larger 1/2" machines.

Any other makes worth a look?

Yup...

Makita routers tend to be quite simple and feature light - but they work
well, are easy to use and people generally like them. Something like:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/makita-rp0900x-router-230v


Is very basic and easy with good ergonomics. It lacks the sophistication
of the trend though with no speed control, soft start, micro adjustment
etc.

That is a good price - I would value smoothness over features. All the
routers I've ever poked in B&Q were as rough as ****e on the plunge.

Ones like:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/makita-rp1110c-1-4-router

are on par with the trend (and to be fair also have better dust
collection), but its quite pricey.

Something like:

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/bosch-go...ional-r-p64801

OK - bit on the £££ side...


Has a side handle design that you may prefer to the trend style while
still having most of the sophisticated features.

Dewalt also have some popular models:

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/dewalt-d...ixed-b-p130155


is an interesting deal with both bases.

This is their very popular T5 style machine:

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/dewalt-d...-router-p25456



Thank you for all that John. Really useful I'll have a detailed
browse of the machines...


Cheers!

Tim

On 18/06/2014 22:03, Tim Watts wrote:
Hiya,

On 18/06/14 21:30, John Rumm wrote:

You most commonly used and generally useful cutter would be a staight
fluted cutter like:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber...ers-1-4-6-35mm


I see...


Keep in mind that you can do wider cuts than the cutter diameter with
multiple passes and adjustment of the fence between cuts. You can do
narrower than the width of the cutter cuts at the edge of the wood - but
obviously not narrower ones in the middle of the wood (say when cutting
a dado or a mortice)

For ease of rebating, a rebating cutter is handy:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber...ter-cutter-set

The price is not bad. I assume you just lock the plunge depth so as to
take out 50% of the thickness and run it in from the end along to the
other end?

Yup you lock the plunge depth to control the amount of wood you are
taking one one pass (which may well be half with the smaller bearings
fitted but could be more or less depending on the wood.

Run one complete pass, then plunge deeper and repeat.

For the amount of work, this looks well worth it!

Two for 150m I would probably go that route (no pun intended). Its
bearing guided cutters don't require you keep the orientation of the
router the same along the whole pass, which can make the work a little
easier.


These don't need a fence setup on the router*, so are quicker to use,
but they have slightly less flexibility in that they can only cut on the
edge and not be used for slots. (* although you can cut sizes other than
the ones provided directly by the bearings by using the fence)

The other option to consider is something like:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber...ing-1-2-12-7mm



You can use it as a straight fluted cutter, but also as a pattern
following trim bit. (stick you pattern on top of the wood, and use it to
churn out copies)

That could be generally useful if I wanted to use a template for something.

Yup, also handy for making perfect housing dados:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ate_router_jig


Do all straight bits cut on the end as well as the side (ie can you
plunge them) or do you have to come in from the edge?

The fluted cutters you can plunge - they plunges easiest if you also
traverse a bit while plunging. You can also get (very expensive) spiral
cutters that are particularly good for plunging.

The spiral ones sounds a bit like a milling bit.

Yup - they are particularly popular with routers in CNC setups for just
that reason. They are available in up and down cut configurations (even
up and down in the same bit!), which leave very clean edges, and / or
very good removal of chips and less burning in other situations.

The bearing guided ones
you can only plunge on an edge.

OK - that is very useful to know.

I think it will be enough to guide the router with the built in edge
guide (proper name?) from whichever side of the plank works the easiest,
rather than use a bearing guide. Unless a bearing guide would work
easier???

If you can get a bearing guide that will do the cut you want in one hit
easily, then its slightly easier. Since with a 1/4" machine you are
unlikely to want to take a 1/2" x 1/2" cut in a single pass, there is
less benefit from a bearing guided cutter in this case.

Oh...

You may be able to - it will depend on what the wood is like and the
feed rate you are using. Given the amount of wood you want to do, I
would probably go for a bearing guided bit if you can get one that will
do the rebate size you need, even if you do need two passes.

3/8" machine maybe?

The 8mm shanked cutters will let you take heavy cuts more easily...
However sometimes its would taking lighter cuts for a better finish.

Even if I were using my 2kW 1/2" machine I would normally do a 1/2" wide
and deep dado in two passes...

(having said that, if I were rebating 100s of metres of wood, I would
stick my stacked dado set in the table saw and knock the whole lot out
in 10 mins ;-)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 18/06/2014 22:03, Tim Watts wrote:
Hiya,

On 18/06/14 21:30, John Rumm wrote:

You most commonly used and generally useful cutter would be a staight
fluted cutter like:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber...ers-1-4-6-35mm


I see...


Keep in mind that you can do wider cuts than the cutter diameter with
multiple passes and adjustment of the fence between cuts. You can do
narrower than the width of the cutter cuts at the edge of the wood - but
obviously not narrower ones in the middle of the wood (say when cutting
a dado or a mortice)

For ease of rebating, a rebating cutter is handy:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber...ter-cutter-set

The price is not bad. I assume you just lock the plunge depth so as to
take out 50% of the thickness and run it in from the end along to the
other end?

For the amount of work, this looks well worth it!

These don't need a fence setup on the router*, so are quicker to use,
but they have slightly less flexibility in that they can only cut on the
edge and not be used for slots. (* although you can cut sizes other than
the ones provided directly by the bearings by using the fence)

The other option to consider is something like:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber...ing-1-2-12-7mm



You can use it as a straight fluted cutter, but also as a pattern
following trim bit. (stick you pattern on top of the wood, and use it to
churn out copies)

That could be generally useful if I wanted to use a template for something.

Do all straight bits cut on the end as well as the side (ie can you
plunge them) or do you have to come in from the edge?

The fluted cutters you can plunge - they plunges easiest if you also
traverse a bit while plunging. You can also get (very expensive) spiral
cutters that are particularly good for plunging.

The spiral ones sounds a bit like a milling bit.

The bearing guided ones
you can only plunge on an edge.

OK - that is very useful to know.

I think it will be enough to guide the router with the built in edge
guide (proper name?) from whichever side of the plank works the easiest,
rather than use a bearing guide. Unless a bearing guide would work
easier???

If you can get a bearing guide that will do the cut you want in one hit
easily, then its slightly easier. Since with a 1/4" machine you are
unlikely to want to take a 1/2" x 1/2" cut in a single pass, there is
less benefit from a bearing guided cutter in this case.

Oh...

3/8" machine maybe?

You can tell I have no clue!

Should not worry, neither did any of us at one time, and you have the
advantage of being able to ask sensible questions!

What would be a reasonable choice of router? Trend T5 MkII looks nice.
Bit expensive. I doubt I will make fine cabinets but I will find other
uses.

I have a T5 MK1 and indeed it is a very nice machine- very smooth and
accurate, and absolutely no slop or backlash in the plunge mechanism.
The speed control is good, the plunge depth generous, the depth lock and
stop systems work, and the micro-adjustable fence is first rate.

However note that not all get on well with that design of machine (i.e.
clones of the layout of the Elu MOF routers) - some prefer ones that
have side handles more commonly seen on the larger 1/2" machines.

Any other makes worth a look?

Yup...

Makita routers tend to be quite simple and feature light - but they work
well, are easy to use and people generally like them. Something like:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/makita-rp0900x-router-230v


Is very basic and easy with good ergonomics. It lacks the sophistication
of the trend though with no speed control, soft start, micro adjustment
etc.

That is a good price - I would value smoothness over features. All the
routers I've ever poked in B&Q were as rough as ****e on the plunge.

Ones like:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/makita-rp1110c-1-4-router

are on par with the trend (and to be fair also have better dust
collection), but its quite pricey.

Something like:

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/bosch-go...ional-r-p64801


OK - bit on the £££ side...


Has a side handle design that you may prefer to the trend style while
still having most of the sophisticated features.

Dewalt also have some popular models:

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/dewalt-d...ixed-b-p130155



is an interesting deal with both bases.

This is their very popular T5 style machine:

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/dewalt-d...-router-p25456




Thank you for all that John. Really useful I'll have a detailed
browse of the machines...


Cheers!

Tim

Just a few points to follow on from Mr Rumm's comprehensive and well
informed (better informed than I am) post:

First, good quality cutters are undoubtedly the best bet, but they can
be a bit expensive if you want to try a few things out or if you're
doing something a bit rough and ready (where a good one might get
damaged). In my opinion, there's a place for the cheap and cheerful
ones either in the sets or as individual ones from Toolstation. Of
course they have their drawbacks (don't last as long, may not be as
precise on sizing etc) but for a pound or two a time they're pretty
disposable. I've used the Toolstation straight and bearing-guided ones
(which they say you shouldn't use in a hand held router, though they
seem fine to me) and they're generally 'alright', especially when you
need one in a hurry at the weekend.

Second, that small Makita router (or one that looked a lot like it) was
on the display in Wickes a week or two ago, so naturally I had to have a
fiddle with it. Pretty basic (not necessarily a bad thing) but the
plunge action felt very nice. It might be worth seeing if they have one
in your local.

Third, I would defintely recommend taking a look at some of the youtube
videos on using routers. For example, there's a series by Ron Fox on
setting up templates and jigs. Although quite slow going, they will
tell you what you need to know about that area. As ever, there are
loads of americans doing unnecessarily complicated things with routers
on youtube too (or making simple things complicated).

Finally, I might have missed it in the thread, but I thought it might be
worthwhile ontroducing the term 'routerboard'. I can't remember what
the link was but it was certainly discussed here just a few months ago
so a quik search should find the thread.

On 18/06/2014 22:03, Tim Watts wrote:
Hiya,

On 18/06/14 21:30, John Rumm wrote:

You most commonly used and generally useful cutter would be a staight
fluted cutter like:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber...ers-1-4-6-35mm


I see...


Keep in mind that you can do wider cuts than the cutter diameter with
multiple passes and adjustment of the fence between cuts. You can do
narrower than the width of the cutter cuts at the edge of the wood - but
obviously not narrower ones in the middle of the wood (say when cutting
a dado or a mortice)

For ease of rebating, a rebating cutter is handy:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber...ter-cutter-set

The price is not bad. I assume you just lock the plunge depth so as to
take out 50% of the thickness and run it in from the end along to the
other end?

For the amount of work, this looks well worth it!

These don't need a fence setup on the router*, so are quicker to use,
but they have slightly less flexibility in that they can only cut on the
edge and not be used for slots. (* although you can cut sizes other than
the ones provided directly by the bearings by using the fence)

The other option to consider is something like:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber...ing-1-2-12-7mm



You can use it as a straight fluted cutter, but also as a pattern
following trim bit. (stick you pattern on top of the wood, and use it to
churn out copies)

That could be generally useful if I wanted to use a template for something.

Do all straight bits cut on the end as well as the side (ie can you
plunge them) or do you have to come in from the edge?

The fluted cutters you can plunge - they plunges easiest if you also
traverse a bit while plunging. You can also get (very expensive) spiral
cutters that are particularly good for plunging.

The spiral ones sounds a bit like a milling bit.

The bearing guided ones
you can only plunge on an edge.

OK - that is very useful to know.

I think it will be enough to guide the router with the built in edge
guide (proper name?) from whichever side of the plank works the easiest,
rather than use a bearing guide. Unless a bearing guide would work
easier???

If you can get a bearing guide that will do the cut you want in one hit
easily, then its slightly easier. Since with a 1/4" machine you are
unlikely to want to take a 1/2" x 1/2" cut in a single pass, there is
less benefit from a bearing guided cutter in this case.

Oh...

3/8" machine maybe?

You can tell I have no clue!

Should not worry, neither did any of us at one time, and you have the
advantage of being able to ask sensible questions!

What would be a reasonable choice of router? Trend T5 MkII looks nice.
Bit expensive. I doubt I will make fine cabinets but I will find other
uses.

I have a T5 MK1 and indeed it is a very nice machine- very smooth and
accurate, and absolutely no slop or backlash in the plunge mechanism.
The speed control is good, the plunge depth generous, the depth lock and
stop systems work, and the micro-adjustable fence is first rate.

However note that not all get on well with that design of machine (i.e.
clones of the layout of the Elu MOF routers) - some prefer ones that
have side handles more commonly seen on the larger 1/2" machines.

Any other makes worth a look?

Yup...

Makita routers tend to be quite simple and feature light - but they work
well, are easy to use and people generally like them. Something like:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/makita-rp0900x-router-230v


Is very basic and easy with good ergonomics. It lacks the sophistication
of the trend though with no speed control, soft start, micro adjustment
etc.

That is a good price - I would value smoothness over features. All the
routers I've ever poked in B&Q were as rough as ****e on the plunge.

Ones like:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/makita-rp1110c-1-4-router

are on par with the trend (and to be fair also have better dust
collection), but its quite pricey.

Something like:

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/bosch-go...ional-r-p64801


OK - bit on the £££ side...


Has a side handle design that you may prefer to the trend style while
still having most of the sophisticated features.

Dewalt also have some popular models:

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/dewalt-d...ixed-b-p130155



is an interesting deal with both bases.

This is their very popular T5 style machine:

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/dewalt-d...-router-p25456




Thank you for all that John. Really useful I'll have a detailed
browse of the machines...


Cheers!

Tim

One more (very important) tip on using routers:
Unless you have a very, very, very good vacuum system hooked up, under
no circumstances should you use a router when wearing the new fleece top
that the wife just bought you.

GMM wrote:

First, good quality cutters are undoubtedly the best bet, but they can
be a bit expensive if you want to try a few things out or if you're
doing something a bit rough and ready (where a good one might get
damaged). In my opinion, there's a place for the cheap and cheerful
ones either in the sets or as individual ones from Toolstation. Of
course they have their drawbacks (don't last as long, may not be as
precise on sizing etc)

I've used the cheapo toolsatan cutters, bought 1/$4" x 6mm, 8mm, 12mm
and 18mm not actually needing the 12mm - as it turned out the 12mm was
/just/ too big to fit the collet, the others were fine, took it back on
my next trip and took the collet with me, two more 12mm ones off the
shelf didn't fit either ... the wonders of silverline!

On 18/06/2014 22:47, GMM wrote:

Finally, I might have missed it in the thread, but I thought it might be
worthwhile ontroducing the term 'routerboard'. I can't remember what
the link was but it was certainly discussed here just a few months ago
so a quik search should find the thread.

Tada:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Routerboard

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 18/06/2014 22:52, GMM wrote:
On 18/06/2014 22:03, Tim Watts wrote:
Hiya,

On 18/06/14 21:30, John Rumm wrote:

You most commonly used and generally useful cutter would be a staight
fluted cutter like:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber...ers-1-4-6-35mm



I see...


Keep in mind that you can do wider cuts than the cutter diameter with
multiple passes and adjustment of the fence between cuts. You can do
narrower than the width of the cutter cuts at the edge of the wood - but
obviously not narrower ones in the middle of the wood (say when cutting
a dado or a mortice)

For ease of rebating, a rebating cutter is handy:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber...ter-cutter-set

The price is not bad. I assume you just lock the plunge depth so as to
take out 50% of the thickness and run it in from the end along to the
other end?

For the amount of work, this looks well worth it!

These don't need a fence setup on the router*, so are quicker to use,
but they have slightly less flexibility in that they can only cut on the
edge and not be used for slots. (* although you can cut sizes other than
the ones provided directly by the bearings by using the fence)

The other option to consider is something like:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber...ing-1-2-12-7mm




You can use it as a straight fluted cutter, but also as a pattern
following trim bit. (stick you pattern on top of the wood, and use it to
churn out copies)

That could be generally useful if I wanted to use a template for
something.

Do all straight bits cut on the end as well as the side (ie can you
plunge them) or do you have to come in from the edge?

The fluted cutters you can plunge - they plunges easiest if you also
traverse a bit while plunging. You can also get (very expensive) spiral
cutters that are particularly good for plunging.

The spiral ones sounds a bit like a milling bit.

The bearing guided ones
you can only plunge on an edge.

OK - that is very useful to know.

I think it will be enough to guide the router with the built in edge
guide (proper name?) from whichever side of the plank works the
easiest,
rather than use a bearing guide. Unless a bearing guide would work
easier???

If you can get a bearing guide that will do the cut you want in one hit
easily, then its slightly easier. Since with a 1/4" machine you are
unlikely to want to take a 1/2" x 1/2" cut in a single pass, there is
less benefit from a bearing guided cutter in this case.

Oh...

3/8" machine maybe?

You can tell I have no clue!

Should not worry, neither did any of us at one time, and you have the
advantage of being able to ask sensible questions!

What would be a reasonable choice of router? Trend T5 MkII looks nice.
Bit expensive. I doubt I will make fine cabinets but I will find other
uses.

I have a T5 MK1 and indeed it is a very nice machine- very smooth and
accurate, and absolutely no slop or backlash in the plunge mechanism.
The speed control is good, the plunge depth generous, the depth lock and
stop systems work, and the micro-adjustable fence is first rate.

However note that not all get on well with that design of machine (i.e.
clones of the layout of the Elu MOF routers) - some prefer ones that
have side handles more commonly seen on the larger 1/2" machines.

Any other makes worth a look?

Yup...

Makita routers tend to be quite simple and feature light - but they work
well, are easy to use and people generally like them. Something like:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/makita-rp0900x-router-230v


Is very basic and easy with good ergonomics. It lacks the sophistication
of the trend though with no speed control, soft start, micro adjustment
etc.

That is a good price - I would value smoothness over features. All the
routers I've ever poked in B&Q were as rough as ****e on the plunge.

Ones like:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/makita-rp1110c-1-4-router

are on par with the trend (and to be fair also have better dust
collection), but its quite pricey.

Something like:

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/bosch-go...ional-r-p64801



OK - bit on the £££ side...


Has a side handle design that you may prefer to the trend style while
still having most of the sophisticated features.

Dewalt also have some popular models:

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/dewalt-d...ixed-b-p130155




is an interesting deal with both bases.

This is their very popular T5 style machine:

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/dewalt-d...-router-p25456





Thank you for all that John. Really useful I'll have a detailed
browse of the machines...


Cheers!

Tim

One more (very important) tip on using routers:
Unless you have a very, very, very good vacuum system hooked up, under
no circumstances should you use a router when wearing the new fleece top
that the wife just bought you.

Dare we ask how you know? ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 18/06/14 22:47, GMM wrote:

Just a few points to follow on from Mr Rumm's comprehensive and well
informed (better informed than I am) post:

First, good quality cutters are undoubtedly the best bet, but they can
be a bit expensive if you want to try a few things out or if you're
doing something a bit rough and ready (where a good one might get
damaged). In my opinion, there's a place for the cheap and cheerful
ones either in the sets or as individual ones from Toolstation. Of
course they have their drawbacks (don't last as long, may not be as
precise on sizing etc) but for a pound or two a time they're pretty
disposable. I've used the Toolstation straight and bearing-guided ones
(which they say you shouldn't use in a hand held router, though they
seem fine to me) and they're generally 'alright', especially when you
need one in a hurry at the weekend.

Could be a good place to start - soffit plank rebating is not a quality
job I might bugger up a cutter until I get the hang of it.

Second, that small Makita router (or one that looked a lot like it) was
on the display in Wickes a week or two ago, so naturally I had to have a
fiddle with it. Pretty basic (not necessarily a bad thing) but the
plunge action felt very nice. It might be worth seeing if they have one
in your local.

Ta for that

Third, I would defintely recommend taking a look at some of the youtube
videos on using routers. For example, there's a series by Ron Fox on
setting up templates and jigs. Although quite slow going, they will
tell you what you need to know about that area. As ever, there are
loads of americans doing unnecessarily complicated things with routers
on youtube too (or making simple things complicated).

Americans seem to be so much more into hardcore DIY than us these days
(as a whole, not the group!).

Finally, I might have missed it in the thread, but I thought it might be
worthwhile ontroducing the term 'routerboard'. I can't remember what
the link was but it was certainly discussed here just a few months ago
so a quik search should find the thread.

Thanks indeed - will search for that...

Tim

On 18/06/14 22:52, GMM wrote:

One more (very important) tip on using routers:
Unless you have a very, very, very good vacuum system hooked up, under
no circumstances should you use a router when wearing the new fleece top
that the wife just bought you.


Hehe.

I'll be outside...

On Sunday, June 15, 2014 1:58:41 AM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/06/2014 19:37, Rick Hughes wrote:

On 13/06/2014 11:15, Tim Watts wrote:





Ideally I'd like to have reusable items - so I'd prefer a 1/4" router

rather than 1/2" if it is man enough.





Don't get 1/4" get an 8mm



8mm shank is much stronger, I have a TREND T5 and a collection of TREND

CraftPRO TCT cutters



8mm routers will also downsize to 1/4" collet ... but never bought a

single 1/4" shank bit



The problem with 8mm shank cutters is they are far less readily

available. Trend to a reasonable range, but they are fairly pricey (good

quality - but sometimes you only need a cheap and cheerful one for a one

off job)



Lighter than a 1/2" for handheld work (I also have a T11 1/2" Router

but usually only used in a table)



Although I have the 8mm collet for my T5, I must confess I have never

used it. (I have also never broken a 1/4" shanked one either)



If you buy bits from the US (often cheaper including delivery they

getting them here) you are also unlikely to find 8mm.







--

Cheers,



John.



/================================================== ===============\

| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |

|-----------------------------------------------------------------|

| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |

\================================================= ================/

Wealden

http://www.wealdentool.com/

have a selection of 8mm bits as well. The 8mm size is quite common sur le continong.

Yanks won't have many as they are predominantly imperial in their dimensions anyway they are awash with cheap chinese knock off.

I have snapped 1/4" bits. Two keyhole slot cutters which have thin necks. They need a good slot cut with a straight bit before being used.

On 19/06/14 12:23, fred wrote:

Wealden

http://www.wealdentool.com/

have a selection of 8mm bits as well. The 8mm size is quite common sur le continong.

Yanks won't have many as they are predominantly imperial in their dimensions anyway they are awash with cheap chinese knock off.

I have snapped 1/4" bits. Two keyhole slot cutters which have thin necks. They need a good slot cut with a straight bit before being used.


Thanks fred - will check them out!

On 19/06/2014 08:21, Tim Watts wrote:

Americans seem to be so much more into hardcore DIY than us these days
(as a whole, not the group!).

They certainly seem better catered for in the woodworking department
when it comes to suppliers and availability of tools and materials. I
also get the impression that their style of house construction is
inherently more DIY friendly (e.g. most things seem to be designed to
nail together!)




--
Cheers,

John.

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One more (very important) tip on using routers:
Unless you have a very, very, very good vacuum system hooked up, under
no circumstances should you use a router when wearing the new fleece top
that the wife just bought you.

Dare we ask how you know? ;-)


Umm...from the amount of time I spent (unsuccessfully) trying to pick
whatever the router version of sawdust is called out of the pile of the
fleece. It was only a little skim down the side of a timber but.......

On 19/06/2014 08:21, Tim Watts wrote:
On 18/06/14 22:52, GMM wrote:

One more (very important) tip on using routers:
Unless you have a very, very, very good vacuum system hooked up, under
no circumstances should you use a router when wearing the new fleece top
that the wife just bought you.


Hehe.

I'll be outside...

So was I (!)