"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
On 2014-03-04, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

It might be easier to plug tghe toothbrushes into a simple adaptor
outside the bathroom.

I have a charging 'station' in the tank cupboard in my bathroom.

Is it still the case (as an electrician told me some years ago) that
you can get around the rules on sockets in bathrooms by putting a
normal socket in the airing cupboard?


Under the 16th edition there was a mention that sockets should not be placed
where portable appliances could be plugged in and used in the bathroom -
that included airing cupboards and just outside the bathroom door.



--
Adam

On 09/03/2014 08:57, ARW wrote:


Under the 16th edition there was a mention that sockets should not be
placed where portable appliances could be plugged in and used in the
bathroom - that included airing cupboards and just outside the bathroom
door.


Great! If you take extension leads into account, you shouldn't have a
socket *anywhere*!
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
On 09/03/2014 08:57, ARW wrote:


Under the 16th edition there was a mention that sockets should not be
placed where portable appliances could be plugged in and used in the
bathroom - that included airing cupboards and just outside the bathroom
door.


Great! If you take extension leads into account, you shouldn't have a
socket *anywhere*!


There is more to it than just extension leads.

Take a rented house where the landlord does not give a toss and the tenants
are living below the poverty line. Will the tenants try to use an electric
heater (or indeed a hair dryer) to warm the bathroom when the boiler is
broken and it is minus 12 outside.

I have spent a lot of time working in slum housing and these are often the
most dangerous houses where electics are concerned.

--
Adam

In article ,
ARW wrote:
Great! If you take extension leads into account, you shouldn't have a
socket *anywhere*!


There is more to it than just extension leads.

Take a rented house where the landlord does not give a toss and the
tenants are living below the poverty line. Will the tenants try to use
an electric heater (or indeed a hair dryer) to warm the bathroom when
the boiler is broken and it is minus 12 outside.

Well yes - but how does the proximity of a socket influence this, as
they'd simply use an extension if needed. Adding to the risks. ;-)

--
*Time is fun when you're having flies... Kermit

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 2014-03-09, ARW wrote:

"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...

Is it still the case (as an electrician told me some years ago) that
you can get around the rules on sockets in bathrooms by putting a
normal socket in the airing cupboard?


Under the 16th edition there was a mention that sockets should not be placed
where portable appliances could be plugged in and used in the bathroom -
that included airing cupboards and just outside the bathroom door.

The nearest socket to my bathroom is a few metres from the door.
Fortunately the vacuum cleaner has a long lead. Wait, the regs don't
want to let me vacuum the floor?

"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
On 2014-03-09, ARW wrote:

"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...

Is it still the case (as an electrician told me some years ago) that
you can get around the rules on sockets in bathrooms by putting a
normal socket in the airing cupboard?


Under the 16th edition there was a mention that sockets should not be
placed
where portable appliances could be plugged in and used in the bathroom -
that included airing cupboards and just outside the bathroom door.

The nearest socket to my bathroom is a few metres from the door.
Fortunately the vacuum cleaner has a long lead. Wait, the regs don't
want to let me vacuum the floor?


I believe that it was more to do with appliances such as electric heater,
hair dryiers radios etc. Basically stuff that might be but should not be
used whilst you are in the bath:-)

--
Adam

On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 6:16:45 PM UTC, wrote:
"Adam Funk" ducksburg.com wrote in message
...
On 2014-03-09, ARW wrote:
"Adam Funk" ducksburg.com wrote in message
...

Is it still the case (as an electrician told me some years ago) that
you can get around the rules on sockets in bathrooms by putting a
normal socket in the airing cupboard?


Under the 16th edition there was a mention that sockets should not be
placed
where portable appliances could be plugged in and used in the bathroom -
that included airing cupboards and just outside the bathroom door.

The nearest socket to my bathroom is a few metres from the door.
Fortunately the vacuum cleaner has a long lead. Wait, the regs don't
want to let me vacuum the floor?
I believe that it was more to do with appliances such as electric heater,
hair dryiers radios etc. Basically stuff that might be but should not be
used whilst you are in the bath:-)

So theyre ok with people vacuuming while in the bath?


NT

wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 6:16:45 PM UTC,
wrote:
"Adam Funk" ducksburg.com wrote in message
...
On 2014-03-09, ARW wrote:
"Adam Funk" ducksburg.com wrote in message
...

Is it still the case (as an electrician told me some years ago) that
you can get around the rules on sockets in bathrooms by putting a
normal socket in the airing cupboard?


Under the 16th edition there was a mention that sockets should not be
placed
where portable appliances could be plugged in and used in the
bathroom -
that included airing cupboards and just outside the bathroom door.

The nearest socket to my bathroom is a few metres from the door.
Fortunately the vacuum cleaner has a long lead. Wait, the regs don't
want to let me vacuum the floor?
I believe that it was more to do with appliances such as electric heater,
hair dryiers radios etc. Basically stuff that might be but should not be
used whilst you are in the bath:-)

So theyre ok with people vacuuming while in the bath?


Reminds me of the when the gf's lad wanted to help me clean up after fitting
an extractor fan(he was about 6 years old at the time). I had a Henry and I
left him in the bathroom vacuuming up brick dust whilst went for a cig.

When I went back inside the water in the toilet bowl was missing and the
Henry was making a funny noise.

--
Adam

On 2014-03-09, ARW wrote:

There is more to it than just extension leads.

Take a rented house where the landlord does not give a toss and the tenants
are living below the poverty line. Will the tenants try to use an electric
heater (or indeed a hair dryer) to warm the bathroom when the boiler is
broken and it is minus 12 outside.

I have spent a lot of time working in slum housing and these are often the
most dangerous houses where electics are concerned.

You mean most dangerous *before* you worked on them, right? ;-)

1;2802;0cOn 2014-03-11, wrote:

On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 6:16:45 PM UTC, wrote:
"Adam Funk" ducksburg.com wrote in message
...
On 2014-03-09, ARW wrote:

Under the 16th edition there was a mention that sockets should not be
placed
where portable appliances could be plugged in and used in the bathroom -
that included airing cupboards and just outside the bathroom door.

The nearest socket to my bathroom is a few metres from the door.
Fortunately the vacuum cleaner has a long lead. Wait, the regs don't
want to let me vacuum the floor?
I believe that it was more to do with appliances such as electric heater,
hair dryiers radios etc. Basically stuff that might be but should not be
used whilst you are in the bath:-)

So theyre ok with people vacuuming while in the bath?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf74JmBiPto

On 09/03/2014 08:57, ARW wrote:
"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
On 2014-03-04, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

It might be easier to plug tghe toothbrushes into a simple adaptor
outside the bathroom.

I have a charging 'station' in the tank cupboard in my bathroom.

Is it still the case (as an electrician told me some years ago) that
you can get around the rules on sockets in bathrooms by putting a
normal socket in the airing cupboard?


Under the 16th edition there was a mention that sockets should not be
placed where portable appliances could be plugged in and used in the
bathroom - that included airing cupboards and just outside the bathroom
door.

As our landing is at no point more than 3'6" from our bathroom door
that'd mean no socket there for plugging in the vac for doing the stairs.

SteveW

On 11/03/2014 20:25, SteveW wrote:
As our landing is at no point more than 3'6" from our bathroom door
that'd mean no socket there for plugging in the vac for doing the stairs.

SteveW

For safety, the vacuum cleaner [1] should be at the bottom of the
stairs, and you have a long hose to do the steps. Pulling a cleaner down
the stairs can be very damaging to walls and persons. And vacuum cleaners.

[1] Assuming not a tiny handheld device.

--
Rod

On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 7:15:51 PM UTC, wrote:
wrote in message
...


The nearest socket to my bathroom is a few metres from the door.
Fortunately the vacuum cleaner has a long lead. Wait, the regs don't
want to let me vacuum the floor?
I believe that it was more to do with appliances such as electric heater,
hair dryiers radios etc. Basically stuff that might be but should not be
used whilst you are in the bath:-)

So theyre ok with people vacuuming while in the bath?

Reminds me of the when the gf's lad wanted to help me clean up after fitting
an extractor fan(he was about 6 years old at the time). I had a Henry and I
left him in the bathroom vacuuming up brick dust whilst went for a cig.
When I went back inside the water in the toilet bowl was missing and the
Henry was making a funny noise.

Eek. I had one lad in his 20s that decided to wash an electrical appliance in the sink :/ I cant help thinking schools have lost the plot these days.


NT

In article ,
wrote:
On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 7:15:51 PM UTC,
wrote:
wrote in message
...


The nearest socket to my bathroom is a few metres from the door.
Fortunately the vacuum cleaner has a long lead. Wait, the regs
don't want to let me vacuum the floor?
I believe that it was more to do with appliances such as electric
heater, hair dryiers radios etc. Basically stuff that might be but
should not be used whilst you are in the bath:-)

So theyre ok with people vacuuming while in the bath?

Reminds me of the when the gf's lad wanted to help me clean up after
fitting an extractor fan(he was about 6 years old at the time). I had
a Henry and I left him in the bathroom vacuuming up brick dust whilst
went for a cig. When I went back inside the water in the toilet bowl
was missing and the Henry was making a funny noise.

Eek. I had one lad in his 20s that decided to wash an electrical
appliance in the sink :/ I cant help thinking schools have lost the plot
these days.

At BBC tv Centre, in the 1960s, all Tektronics 'scopes that went in for
maintainence got washed. the secret was in the drying - as many imitators
found to their cost.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On 2014-03-09, ARW wrote:

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
On 09/03/2014 08:57, ARW wrote:


Under the 16th edition there was a mention that sockets should not be
placed where portable appliances could be plugged in and used in the
bathroom - that included airing cupboards and just outside the bathroom
door.


Great! If you take extension leads into account, you shouldn't have a
socket *anywhere*!


There is more to it than just extension leads.

Take a rented house where the landlord does not give a toss and the tenants
are living below the poverty line. Will the tenants try to use an electric
heater (or indeed a hair dryer) to warm the bathroom when the boiler is
broken and it is minus 12 outside.

I have spent a lot of time working in slum housing and these are often the
most dangerous houses where electics are concerned.

Isn't a lot of the problem there *enforcement* of the building
regulations rather than just the content of them? (I mean that
slumlords are less likely than other people to care about doing things
right.)

"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
On 2014-03-09, ARW wrote:

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
On 09/03/2014 08:57, ARW wrote:


Under the 16th edition there was a mention that sockets should not be
placed where portable appliances could be plugged in and used in the
bathroom - that included airing cupboards and just outside the bathroom
door.


Great! If you take extension leads into account, you shouldn't have a
socket *anywhere*!


There is more to it than just extension leads.

Take a rented house where the landlord does not give a toss and the
tenants
are living below the poverty line. Will the tenants try to use an
electric
heater (or indeed a hair dryer) to warm the bathroom when the boiler is
broken and it is minus 12 outside.

I have spent a lot of time working in slum housing and these are often
the
most dangerous houses where electics are concerned.

Isn't a lot of the problem there *enforcement* of the building
regulations rather than just the content of them? (I mean that
slumlords are less likely than other people to care about doing things
right.)


I have in the past disconnected dangerous circuits, given the landlord a
reason why I have done that (backed up in writing) and left their property
in a safe state.

A few bad landlord will spoil it for the good ones and there will soon be
the same laws with electrics as there are with gas - and I am not one that
believes that a rented house needs an EICR every 12 months.

--
Adam

On 2014-03-13, ARW wrote:

"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
On 2014-03-09, ARW wrote:

I have spent a lot of time working in slum housing and these are often
the
most dangerous houses where electics are concerned.

Isn't a lot of the problem there *enforcement* of the building
regulations rather than just the content of them? (I mean that
slumlords are less likely than other people to care about doing things
right.)


I have in the past disconnected dangerous circuits, given the landlord a
reason why I have done that (backed up in writing) and left their property
in a safe state.

You're a good man, doing the right thing & possibly losing repeat
business.

A few bad landlord will spoil it for the good ones and there will soon be
the same laws with electrics as there are with gas - and I am not one that
believes that a rented house needs an EICR every 12 months.

I agree.

On 11/03/2014 21:39, polygonum wrote:
On 11/03/2014 20:25, SteveW wrote:
As our landing is at no point more than 3'6" from our bathroom door
that'd mean no socket there for plugging in the vac for doing the stairs.

SteveW

For safety, the vacuum cleaner [1] should be at the bottom of the
stairs, and you have a long hose to do the steps. Pulling a cleaner down
the stairs can be very damaging to walls and persons. And vacuum cleaners.

[1] Assuming not a tiny handheld device.

Vac sits at bottom when doing the bottom half and on the half-landing
when doing the top half and the top landing and then is moved onto the
top landing to do the bathroom and bedrooms.

SteveW

On 11/03/2014 18:39, wrote:
On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 6:16:45 PM UTC, wrote:
"Adam Funk" ducksburg.com wrote in message
...
On 2014-03-09, ARW wrote:
"Adam Funk" ducksburg.com wrote in message
...

Is it still the case (as an electrician told me some years ago) that
you can get around the rules on sockets in bathrooms by putting a
normal socket in the airing cupboard?


Under the 16th edition there was a mention that sockets should not be
placed
where portable appliances could be plugged in and used in the bathroom -
that included airing cupboards and just outside the bathroom door.

The nearest socket to my bathroom is a few metres from the door.
Fortunately the vacuum cleaner has a long lead. Wait, the regs don't
want to let me vacuum the floor?
I believe that it was more to do with appliances such as electric heater,
hair dryiers radios etc. Basically stuff that might be but should not be
used whilst you are in the bath:-)

So theyre ok with people vacuuming while in the bath?

As long as it's an aqua-vac

SteveW

On 14/03/2014 21:11, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2014-03-11, polygonum wrote:

On 11/03/2014 20:25, SteveW wrote:
As our landing is at no point more than 3'6" from our bathroom door
that'd mean no socket there for plugging in the vac for doing the stairs.

SteveW

For safety, the vacuum cleaner [1] should be at the bottom of the
stairs, and you have a long hose to do the steps. Pulling a cleaner down
the stairs can be very damaging to walls and persons. And vacuum cleaners.

[1] Assuming not a tiny handheld device.
I normally put the vacuum cleaner on the ground floor to vacuum up the
stairs to the 1st floor, but I put it on the 1st floor landing to
vacuum up the stairs to the 2nd. And I use a socket that is (just)
close enough to let me vacuum the bathroom floor too.

But I don't vacuum the bath itself.

As we only have a "standard" house with an single upper floor, the
thought of second upper floor never fleeted through my mind. But
perfectly reasonable! :-)

--
Rod

wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 7:15:51 PM UTC,
wrote:
wrote in message
...


The nearest socket to my bathroom is a few metres from the door.
Fortunately the vacuum cleaner has a long lead. Wait, the regs
don't
want to let me vacuum the floor?
I believe that it was more to do with appliances such as electric
heater,
hair dryiers radios etc. Basically stuff that might be but should not
be
used whilst you are in the bath:-)

So theyre ok with people vacuuming while in the bath?

Reminds me of the when the gf's lad wanted to help me clean up after
fitting
an extractor fan(he was about 6 years old at the time). I had a Henry and
I
left him in the bathroom vacuuming up brick dust whilst went for a cig.
When I went back inside the water in the toilet bowl was missing and the
Henry was making a funny noise.

Eek. I had one lad in his 20s that decided to wash an electrical appliance
in the sink :/ I cant help thinking schools have lost the plot these days.

It's NOT the schools. It's the PARENTS.



--
Adam

On 2014-03-15, ARW wrote:

It's NOT the schools. It's the PARENTS.

+1

Those who advocate performance-related pay for teachers should carry
the idea back a level.

Teachers are (for the most part --- there are a few exceptions)
trained & qualified professionals trying to do the right thing.
Parents vary widely in quality, down to those who are unable to use
contraceptives correctly.

On 2014-03-14, polygonum wrote:

On 14/03/2014 21:11, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2014-03-11, polygonum wrote:

On 11/03/2014 20:25, SteveW wrote:
As our landing is at no point more than 3'6" from our bathroom door
that'd mean no socket there for plugging in the vac for doing the stairs.

SteveW

For safety, the vacuum cleaner [1] should be at the bottom of the
stairs, and you have a long hose to do the steps. Pulling a cleaner down
the stairs can be very damaging to walls and persons. And vacuum cleaners.

[1] Assuming not a tiny handheld device.
I normally put the vacuum cleaner on the ground floor to vacuum up the
stairs to the 1st floor, but I put it on the 1st floor landing to
vacuum up the stairs to the 2nd. And I use a socket that is (just)
close enough to let me vacuum the bathroom floor too.

But I don't vacuum the bath itself.

As we only have a "standard" house with an single upper floor, the
thought of second upper floor never fleeted through my mind. But
perfectly reasonable! :-)

In my neighbourhood, but not everywhere of course, early C.20 terraced
houses with an original 2nd-floor room are fairly common. The top
room has diagonal slopes between the front & back walls & the
horizontal ceiling, & the stairs up to it were fairly obviously part
of the original design of the house.

On Saturday, March 15, 2014 2:49:22 PM UTC, wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 7:15:51 PM UTC,
wrote:
wrote in message
...

So theyre ok with people vacuuming while in the bath?

Reminds me of the when the gf's lad wanted to help me clean up after
fitting
an extractor fan(he was about 6 years old at the time). I had a Henry and
I
left him in the bathroom vacuuming up brick dust whilst went for a cig.
When I went back inside the water in the toilet bowl was missing and the
Henry was making a funny noise.

Eek. I had one lad in his 20s that decided to wash an electrical appliance
in the sink :/ I cant help thinking schools have lost the plot these days.

It's NOT the schools. It's the PARENTS.

Obviously its both. Since every generation of parents has a significant percentage of incompetents, any school with a clue would teach these things.


NT

On Sunday, 2 March 2014 13:02:39 UTC, Tricky Dicky wrote:
Brian I think the difference is that in a kitchen you may have your hands wet whilst handling electrical equipment, whereas in a bathroom you could be standing stark bollock naked wet all over in a pool of water in a cast iron bath like a lightening conductor providing a perfect route to earth.

Back to OP, most of the shaver sockets provide a 230v and 115v socket and most shavers and toothbrushes will happily operate on either so you can plug two devices in.

Richard

YOU CANNOT operate two devices at the same time, because there is a mechanism within the dual socket that prevents you from doing that by closing the unused port when you plug the first device in. Someone should produce a simple double socket that simply plugs into the shaver point and supplies power to two points simultaneously so that people like me can have their electric toothbrush, waterpik and/or shaver charging at the same time.

On 03/07/2016 14:29, wrote:
On Sunday, 2 March 2014 13:02:39 UTC, Tricky Dicky wrote:
Brian I think the difference is that in a kitchen you may have your hands wet whilst handling electrical equipment, whereas in a bathroom you could be standing stark bollock naked wet all over in a pool of water in a cast iron bath like a lightening conductor providing a perfect route to earth.

Back to OP, most of the shaver sockets provide a 230v and 115v socket and most shavers and toothbrushes will happily operate on either so you can plug two devices in.

Richard

YOU CANNOT operate two devices at the same time, because there is a mechanism within the dual socket that prevents you from doing that by closing the unused port when you plug the first device in. Someone should produce a simple double socket that simply plugs into the shaver point and supplies power to two points simultaneously so that people like me can have their electric toothbrush, waterpik and/or shaver charging at the same time.


This makes me wonder whether shaver sockets with an isolation
transformer are needed at all? They pre-date ELCBs and RCDs.

I have installed two shaver sockets in our bathroom, and really we need
a third. We get by because DW and I share an electric toothbrush (just
changing the brush head, which we only started doing because the dental
hygienist insisted).

In article ,
wrote:
YOU CANNOT operate two devices at the same time, because there is a
mechanism within the dual socket that prevents you from doing that by
closing the unused port when you plug the first device in. Someone
should produce a simple double socket that simply plugs into the shaver
point and supplies power to two points simultaneously so that people
like me can have their electric toothbrush, waterpik and/or shaver
charging at the same time.

Which mostly negates the reason for using an isolating transformer. To get
the same safety, you need one isolating transformer per outlet.

--
*A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kickboxing.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman wrote:

To get the same safety, you need one isolating transformer per
outlet.

What's the logic of that? Obviously without a transformer you only need
to touch live terminal [and have a path to earth] to get a shock, with a
single outlet on a transformer, touching one terminal won't give you a
shock, only touching both terminals. So if there are two outlets, how
are you more likely to touch both sides of the transformer output?

On 03/07/2016 18:36, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Which mostly negates the reason for using an isolating transformer. To get
the same safety, you need one isolating transformer per outlet.

Doesn't seem that difficult to imagine a lump that contains two
isolating transformers, each feeding one socket, in one box. Or am I
missing the significant issue?

--
Rod

On 03/07/16 19:37, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

To get the same safety, you need one isolating transformer per
outlet.

What's the logic of that? Obviously without a transformer you only need
to touch live terminal [and have a path to earth] to get a shock, with a
single outlet on a transformer, touching one terminal won't give you a
shock, only touching both terminals. So if there are two outlets, how
are you more likely to touch both sides of the transformer output?




Double fault probably - Phase 1 goes to case in one appliance, Phase 2
goes to case in the other appliance. You are holding one appliance in
each hand.

Very unlikely I know - but it's the main logic that I can see.

On 03/07/16 19:40, polygonum wrote:
On 03/07/2016 18:36, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Which mostly negates the reason for using an isolating transformer. To
get
the same safety, you need one isolating transformer per outlet.

Doesn't seem that difficult to imagine a lump that contains two
isolating transformers, each feeding one socket, in one box. Or am I
missing the significant issue?


It would not even need 2 transformers - just one with dual isolated
secondaries. Or triple isolated secondaries.

I agree - it's about time such a beast came about as lots of people now
have a couple of things on charge much of the time.

On 03/07/2016 20:28, Tim Watts wrote:
On 03/07/16 19:40, polygonum wrote:
On 03/07/2016 18:36, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Which mostly negates the reason for using an isolating transformer. To
get
the same safety, you need one isolating transformer per outlet.

Doesn't seem that difficult to imagine a lump that contains two
isolating transformers, each feeding one socket, in one box. Or am I
missing the significant issue?


It would not even need 2 transformers - just one with dual isolated
secondaries. Or triple isolated secondaries.

I agree - it's about time such a beast came about as lots of people now
have a couple of things on charge much of the time.

Actually, one output that feeds different outlets at different times.
Your toothbrush won't care if it's only charged 12 hours a day.

On 03/07/2016 20:40, GB wrote:
On 03/07/2016 20:28, Tim Watts wrote:
On 03/07/16 19:40, polygonum wrote:
On 03/07/2016 18:36, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Which mostly negates the reason for using an isolating transformer. To
get
the same safety, you need one isolating transformer per outlet.

Doesn't seem that difficult to imagine a lump that contains two
isolating transformers, each feeding one socket, in one box. Or am I
missing the significant issue?


It would not even need 2 transformers - just one with dual isolated
secondaries. Or triple isolated secondaries.

I agree - it's about time such a beast came about as lots of people now
have a couple of things on charge much of the time.

Actually, one output that feeds different outlets at different times.
Your toothbrush won't care if it's only charged 12 hours a day.


Bugger, why did I post that? That's a really, really good idea, that
would have been worth patenting if I hadn't published it here.

You could easily design circuitry that recognised when the user was
operating the electric mouthwash and directed the output to that socket.

Then all that would be required is a single isolating transformer and a
tiny circuit board.

and indeed a time machine as well, most probably.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 2 March 2014 13:02:39 UTC, Tricky Dicky wrote:
Brian I think the difference is that in a kitchen you may have your hands
wet whilst handling electrical equipment, whereas in a bathroom you could
be standing stark bollock naked wet all over in a pool of water in a cast
iron bath like a lightening conductor providing a perfect route to earth.

Back to OP, most of the shaver sockets provide a 230v and 115v socket and
most shavers and toothbrushes will happily operate on either so you can
plug two devices in.

Richard

YOU CANNOT operate two devices at the same time, because there is a
mechanism within the dual socket that prevents you from doing that by
closing the unused port when you plug the first device in. Someone should
produce a simple double socket that simply plugs into the shaver point and
supplies power to two points simultaneously so that people like me can have
their electric toothbrush, waterpik and/or shaver charging at the same time.

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

To get the same safety, you need one isolating transformer per
outlet.

What's the logic of that? Obviously without a transformer you only need
to touch live terminal [and have a path to earth] to get a shock, with a
single outlet on a transformer, touching one terminal won't give you a
shock, only touching both terminals. So if there are two outlets, how
are you more likely to touch both sides of the transformer output?

You don't need an isolating transformer if you're not in any danger of
touching one of the 'terminals'. It is used to make that fault less
dangerous. If you have two appliances both with faults on the same iso
tranny not too difficult to see how you could touch both terminals.

--
*Elephants are the only mammals that can't jump *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 04/07/2016 10:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

To get the same safety, you need one isolating transformer per
outlet.

What's the logic of that? Obviously without a transformer you only need
to touch live terminal [and have a path to earth] to get a shock, with a
single outlet on a transformer, touching one terminal won't give you a
shock, only touching both terminals. So if there are two outlets, how
are you more likely to touch both sides of the transformer output?

You don't need an isolating transformer if you're not in any danger of
touching one of the 'terminals'. It is used to make that fault less
dangerous. If you have two appliances both with faults on the same iso
tranny not too difficult to see how you could touch both terminals.


Surely, the whole thing could be replaced with a suitably sensitive RCD?

On 04/07/16 10:42, GB wrote:
On 04/07/2016 10:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

To get the same safety, you need one isolating transformer per
outlet.

What's the logic of that? Obviously without a transformer you only need
to touch live terminal [and have a path to earth] to get a shock, with a
single outlet on a transformer, touching one terminal won't give you a
shock, only touching both terminals. So if there are two outlets, how
are you more likely to touch both sides of the transformer output?

You don't need an isolating transformer if you're not in any danger of
touching one of the 'terminals'. It is used to make that fault less
dangerous. If you have two appliances both with faults on the same iso
tranny not too difficult to see how you could touch both terminals.


Surely, the whole thing could be replaced with a suitably sensitive RCD?



The RCD can be sensitive to 1mA - but it will not reduce the belt you
get whilst it breaks the circuit (10-40mS in practice).

This is normally OK with dry contact, but if you are soaking wet, you're
going to get a much heftier current through you for those 10-40mS which
may prove fatal in a larger number of cases.

On 04/07/16 10:42, GB wrote:


Surely, the whole thing could be replaced with a suitably sensitive RCD?


I thought we had decided not to talk about the European Union!



--
€œit should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalins Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.€�

Vaclav Klaus

On 2016-07-04, Tim Watts wrote:

On 04/07/16 10:42, GB wrote:

Surely, the whole thing could be replaced with a suitably sensitive RCD?



The RCD can be sensitive to 1mA - but it will not reduce the belt you
get whilst it breaks the circuit (10-40mS in practice).

This is normally OK with dry contact, but if you are soaking wet, you're
going to get a much heftier current through you for those 10-40mS which
may prove fatal in a larger number of cases.

Is this the reason that isolating transformers (which are relatively
old technology) are still required for bathroom shaver sockets, even
if they are RCD-protected? (I'd been meaning to ask for a while.)

On 05/07/16 12:02, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2016-07-04, Tim Watts wrote:

On 04/07/16 10:42, GB wrote:

Surely, the whole thing could be replaced with a suitably sensitive RCD?



The RCD can be sensitive to 1mA - but it will not reduce the belt you
get whilst it breaks the circuit (10-40mS in practice).

This is normally OK with dry contact, but if you are soaking wet, you're
going to get a much heftier current through you for those 10-40mS which
may prove fatal in a larger number of cases.

Is this the reason that isolating transformers (which are relatively
old technology) are still required for bathroom shaver sockets, even
if they are RCD-protected? (I'd been meaning to ask for a while.)

yes.



--
€œBut what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an
hypothesis!€�

Mary Wollstonecraft