I'm looking for an official statistic for the percentage of Victorian houses in England or the UK - statistics gov uk isn't getting me there though. Does anyone know of one?

Stats on cavity walls in such houses would be even nicer

thank you


NT

I'm looking for an official statistic for the percentage of Victorian
houses in England or the UK - statistics gov uk isn't getting me
there though. Does anyone know of one?

Stats on cavity walls in such houses would be even nicer


IME best starting point for such things is the UK Stats publication site
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/hub/index.html With the benefit (?) of
having in the past used the housing survey, a search for that gave a
fair few leads
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/hub/sea...housing+survey

Of those the best bet looks to be
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...1-homes-report
which includes:

"1.22 Looking in detail at the stock in 2011, 95% of it was
traditionally built using masonry or timber as the main structural
component (Table 1.1). Some 64% of all homes were built with traditional
cavity walls, where all of the external walls are loadbearing. These
external walls consist of two leaves of brickwork or blockwork with a
cavity in between that is typically around 70mm wide; the width varies
by dwelling age and location. The two leaves are held together by wall
ties and the cavity may contain insulation - either built in or added
later "

You need to read more though to get context etc

HTH

--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

wrote in message
...
I'm looking for an official statistic for the percentage of Victorian
houses in England or the UK - statistics gov uk isn't getting me there
though. Does anyone know of one?

Stats on cavity walls in such houses would be even nicer

thank you


NT

I should be surprised if there are any Victorian houses built with cavity
walls - mine is 1897 and there is not a cavity anywhere. The main walls are
brick, faced in stone. I'm in Scotland.

In article , Geoff Pearson
wrote:

wrote in message
...
I'm looking for an official statistic for the percentage of Victorian
houses in England or the UK - statistics gov uk isn't getting me there
though. Does anyone know of one?

Stats on cavity walls in such houses would be even nicer

thank you


NT

I should be surprised if there are any Victorian houses built with cavity
walls - mine is 1897 and there is not a cavity anywhere. The main walls
are brick, faced in stone. I'm in Scotland.

our last house (part of) was Edwardian (1908) with cavity walls; present
house GeorgeVian (1911) with solid walls and render. Rain has been
penetrating for the first time in the 35 years we've been here.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

In article ,
Geoff Pearson wrote:
I should be surprised if there are any Victorian houses built with
cavity walls - mine is 1897 and there is not a cavity anywhere. The
main walls are brick, faced in stone. I'm in Scotland.

I'm told there are - but I've never come across one. In Scotland it's more
common to have lath and plaster internal walls even on outside ones -
which will provide a degree of insulation over ones plastered directly on
brick?

However, the vast majority of Victorian houses have solid walls.

--
*Life is hard; then you nap

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I should be surprised if there are any Victorian houses built with
cavity walls - mine is 1897 and there is not a cavity anywhere. The
main walls are brick, faced in stone. I'm in Scotland.

IIRC from when we were being lobbied for incentives for insulation we
were told there were plenty of cavity walls being built outside London
at the end of the Victorian period but that amounted to only a tiny
proportion of the stock; and that many of those few cavity walls weren't
suitable for added insultation in any event.

--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

In article ,
"Geoff Pearson" writes:

wrote in message
...
I'm looking for an official statistic for the percentage of Victorian
houses in England or the UK - statistics gov uk isn't getting me there
though. Does anyone know of one?

Stats on cavity walls in such houses would be even nicer

thank you


NT

I should be surprised if there are any Victorian houses built with cavity
walls - mine is 1897 and there is not a cavity anywhere. The main walls are
brick, faced in stone. I'm in Scotland.

In the form we recognise them today, they start around 1880 IIRC,
in wind-swept coastal areas.

However, even before that you have 9" wall construction which is
modified to prevent moisture penetration, as an early form of cavity.
This was initially done by the use of snapped headers in the flemish
bond used to make conventional 9" brick walls, so that only about 1/4
of the headers (in the header-stretcher-header-stretcher pattern)
actually tie the two sides of the wall, the rest being snapped in
half to reduce cold bridging. This gets you a 1/2" rough cavity.

An alternative is a slight variation on flemish bond with fewer
headers, called flemish garden wall bond, where you'll see the pattern
header-stretcher-stretcher-stretcher-header-stretcher-stretcher-stretcher...
if you look at the wall face. This also gets you a 1/2" cavity,
although not as much attention was paid to keeping the cavity clear
as is done noadays.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 23/02/2014 10:50, wrote:
I'm looking for an official statistic for the percentage of Victorian houses in England or the UK - statistics gov uk isn't getting me there though. Does anyone know of one?

A 2008 government housing survey showed that 21.4% of the housing stock
was built before 1919. It didn't break it down any further than that.

Stats on cavity walls in such houses would be even nicer

Very rare. There are cavity walls known from the early Victorian era and
most construction manuals from the 1880s onwards include them. However,
until the 1920s, cavity wall construction was primarily seen as a way to
provide better weather protection in very exposed locations.

Colin Bignell

In my Victorian terrace built 1892 I was surprised to find the
party walls had a cavity. The block of four is 18" stone front
and side walls, brick cavity party walls between the houses and
between number 2 and 3 and the gennel, timber lath+plaster
internal walls staircase wall), and brick cavity offset kitchen.

jgh

On Sunday, February 23, 2014 3:27:11 PM UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Geoff Pearson wrote:

I should be surprised if there are any Victorian houses built with
cavity walls - mine is 1897 and there is not a cavity anywhere. The
main walls are brick, faced in stone. I'm in Scotland.

I'm told there are - but I've never come across one. In Scotland it's more
common to have lath and plaster internal walls even on outside ones -
which will provide a degree of insulation over ones plastered directly on
brick?
However, the vast majority of Victorian houses have solid walls.

I've come across Vic cavity walls, meaning much more than 1/2" cavity, indeed the wall types have existed since long before Victorian times. Some were done as a damp preventing measure, some are simply an inherent part of the type of wall construction. What I don't know is the figures, and I'm getting the impression such stats might not exist.


NT

On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 18:21:21 +0000 Nightjar wrote :
Very rare. There are cavity walls known from the early Victorian era and
most construction manuals from the 1880s onwards include them. However,
until the 1920s, cavity wall construction was primarily seen as a way to
provide better weather protection in very exposed locations.

Yes, in my old BCO patch (New Malden, SW London) spec builders (Wates was
the largest by far) only switched to cavity walls c.1937. A colleague who
joined us from Portsmouth where driving rain would have been much more
prevalent was quite shocked by this - IIRC he said that there cavity walls
were the norm from the late Victorian period. Most of the interwar spec-
built houses were rendered or pebble-dashed so water penetration through
solid brickwork was less of an issue.

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on',
Melbourne, Australia www.greentram.com

On 23/02/2014 22:03, wrote:
On Sunday, February 23, 2014 3:27:11 PM UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Geoff Pearson wrote:

I should be surprised if there are any Victorian houses built with
cavity walls - mine is 1897 and there is not a cavity anywhere. The
main walls are brick, faced in stone. I'm in Scotland.

I'm told there are - but I've never come across one. In Scotland it's more
common to have lath and plaster internal walls even on outside ones -
which will provide a degree of insulation over ones plastered directly on
brick?
However, the vast majority of Victorian houses have solid walls.

I've come across Vic cavity walls, meaning much more than 1/2" cavity, indeed the wall types have existed since long before Victorian times. Some were done as a damp preventing measure, some are simply an inherent part of the type of wall construction. What I don't know is the figures, and I'm getting the impression such stats might not exist.


I suspect it is not something many people would need to know :-)

From a practical point of view, without a detailed survey of every
house, how would you know? A stretcher bond (1/2 brick) wall probably is
the outer leaf of a cavity wall, but some Victorian cavity walls had one
brick thick outer leaves, which would be indistinguishable externally
from a solid wall.

Colin Bignell

In article , Nightjar
wrote:
On 23/02/2014 22:03, wrote:
On Sunday, February 23, 2014 3:27:11 PM UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Geoff Pearson wrote:

I should be surprised if there are any Victorian houses built with
cavity walls - mine is 1897 and there is not a cavity anywhere. The
main walls are brick, faced in stone. I'm in Scotland.

I'm told there are - but I've never come across one. In Scotland it's
more common to have lath and plaster internal walls even on outside
ones - which will provide a degree of insulation over ones plastered
directly on brick? However, the vast majority of Victorian houses have
solid walls.

I've come across Vic cavity walls, meaning much more than 1/2" cavity,
indeed the wall types have existed since long before Victorian times.
Some were done as a damp preventing measure, some are simply an
inherent part of the type of wall construction. What I don't know is
the figures, and I'm getting the impression such stats might not exist.


I suspect it is not something many people would need to know :-)

unless you are getting cavity wall insulation.



From a practical point of view, without a detailed survey of every
house, how would you know? A stretcher bond (1/2 brick) wall probably is
the outer leaf of a cavity wall, but some Victorian cavity walls had one
brick thick outer leaves, which would be indistinguishable externally
from a solid wall.

and if the wall was rendered (harled), who would know?

Colin Bignell

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

I've come across Vic cavity walls, meaning much more than 1/2"
cavity, indeed the wall types have existed since long before
Victorian times. Some were done as a damp preventing measure, some
are simply an inherent part of the type of wall construction. What I
don't know is the figures, and I'm getting the impression such stats
might not exist.

Having misread your question (for which grovelling apologies) I asked a
former colleague. He couldn't find anyone in DCLG who admitted to
knowing anything. Only suggestion was that you approach BRE direct to
see if they can at least tell you if they have an estimate for the
pre-1919 population - if that'd be of any help.

--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

On Monday, February 24, 2014 9:54:53 AM UTC, Nightjar wrote:
On 23/02/2014 22:03, wrote:
On Sunday, February 23, 2014 3:27:11 PM UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Geoff Pearson wrote:

I should be surprised if there are any Victorian houses built with
cavity walls - mine is 1897 and there is not a cavity anywhere. The
main walls are brick, faced in stone. I'm in Scotland.

I'm told there are - but I've never come across one. In Scotland it's more
common to have lath and plaster internal walls even on outside ones -
which will provide a degree of insulation over ones plastered directly on
brick?
However, the vast majority of Victorian houses have solid walls.

I've come across Vic cavity walls, meaning much more than 1/2" cavity, indeed the wall types have existed since long before Victorian times. Some were done as a damp preventing measure, some are simply an inherent part of the type of wall construction. What I don't know is the figures, and I'm getting the impression such stats might not exist.

I suspect it is not something many people would need to know :-)
From a practical point of view, without a detailed survey of every
house, how would you know?

Survey a small number...

A stretcher bond (1/2 brick) wall probably is
the outer leaf of a cavity wall, but some Victorian cavity walls had one
brick thick outer leaves, which would be indistinguishable externally
from a solid wall.
Colin Bignell

Yes, one never knows if headers are snapped or not, if stretcher bond is 4" or untied 9", etc. Some walls types are easily spotted like rattrap bond, but usually the only way is to drill, look into a vent, or otherwise get access to the possible cavity.

CWI companies dont seem to bother finding out. There's political will to CWI the nation, but seldom enough political will to get the facts right. So I expect no-one knows.

The last Vic house I checked out had no less than 7 external wall types, and this sort of mix & match was common, so its not quite as simple as it might sound. The cost/trouble of doing so paid off, part of it I CWIed.


NT

On 23/02/2014 10:50, wrote:

I'm looking for an official statistic for the percentage of Victorian houses in England or the UK - statistics gov uk isn't getting me there though. Does anyone know of one?

Stats on cavity walls in such houses would be even nicer

As a rough guide stuff built as late as 1906 round here in North Yorks
is solid brick construction. My house is older and the guys installing a
vent for our new stove blunted their corer drilling a hole through the
three bricks thick outer wall. Round flints in the clay didn't help.

Interesting secondary question at what point did damp courses become a
part of standard building practice for new build?

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 24/02/2014 12:00, wrote:
On Monday, February 24, 2014 9:54:53 AM UTC, Nightjar wrote:
On 23/02/2014 22:03, wrote:
On Sunday, February 23, 2014 3:27:11 PM UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Geoff Pearson wrote:

I should be surprised if there are any Victorian houses built with
cavity walls - mine is 1897 and there is not a cavity anywhere. The
main walls are brick, faced in stone. I'm in Scotland.

I'm told there are - but I've never come across one. In Scotland it's more
common to have lath and plaster internal walls even on outside ones -
which will provide a degree of insulation over ones plastered directly on
brick?
However, the vast majority of Victorian houses have solid walls.

I've come across Vic cavity walls, meaning much more than 1/2" cavity, indeed the wall types have existed since long before Victorian times. Some were done as a damp preventing measure, some are simply an inherent part of the type of wall construction. What I don't know is the figures, and I'm getting the impression such stats might not exist.

I suspect it is not something many people would need to know :-)
From a practical point of view, without a detailed survey of every
house, how would you know?

Survey a small number...

Even if I had the British Standards on statistical sampling to hand, it
doesn't interest me enough to do the calculations, but I suspect that,
given that there are regional variations, it would need to be quite a
large number over many areas.

A stretcher bond (1/2 brick) wall probably is
the outer leaf of a cavity wall, but some Victorian cavity walls had one
brick thick outer leaves, which would be indistinguishable externally
from a solid wall.

Yes, one never knows if headers are snapped or not, if stretcher bond is 4" or untied 9", etc. Some walls types are easily spotted like rattrap bond, but usually the only way is to drill, look into a vent, or otherwise get access to the possible cavity.

CWI companies dont seem to bother finding out. There's political will to CWI the nation, but seldom enough political will to get the facts right. So I expect no-one knows.

The last Vic house I checked out had no less than 7 external wall types, and this sort of mix & match was common, so its not quite as simple as it might sound. The cost/trouble of doing so paid off, part of it I CWIed.

I'm not surprised. I would expect that, if it was to improve weather
resistance in an exposed location, only one or two wall might be built
with cavities.

Colin Bignell

In article ,
Martin Brown writes:

Interesting secondary question at what point did damp courses become a
part of standard building practice for new build?

Much earlier than cavity walls, but I don't have a date.
Often a line of slates at the time, which works OK.

However, not always used everywhere it would be nowadays.
Areas often omitted were the support for a chimney/hearth,
as the heat from the fire kept it dry (until the fire was
no longer used in the 1950's, and then the joists hooked
into it go rotten). Also, sleeper walls often had no damp
course, relying on their honeycomb construction and sub-
floor ventilation to keep them dry.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]