One thing that is never mentioned in the official
notices of inflation rates is the level of uncertainty
of the figures.
It is particularly inportant to know this when much
is being made of changes as small as 0.1%.
I would be surprised if the uncertainty was much
lower than 1%, but perhaps someone in the know
will take the risk of enlightening us ?

Jim Hawkins

On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:12:15 PM UTC+13, Jim Hawkins wrote:
One thing that is never mentioned in the official
notices of inflation rates is the level of uncertainty
of the figures.

I would question the weightings of the items in their surveys. I don't think that luxury items should be included, only things that people on low incomes need. So no BMWs, cell phones, avocadoes, etc. I have no idea what items they choose but I'll bet many of their choices will be stupid.

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 11:49:04 PM UTC, Matty F wrote:
On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:12:15 PM UTC+13, Jim Hawkins wrote:

One thing that is never mentioned in the official
notices of inflation rates is the level of uncertainty
of the figures.

I would question the weightings of the items in their surveys. I don't think that luxury items should be included, only things that people on low incomes need. So no BMWs, cell phones, avocadoes, etc. I have no idea what items they choose but I'll bet many of their choices will be stupid.

The official figures seem to have little connection to my experience of reality.


NT

Matty F wrote:

I would question the weightings of the items in their surveys. I don't think that luxury items should be included, only things that people on low

incomes need. So no BMWs, cell phones, avocadoes, etc. I have no idea
what items they choose but I'll bet many of their choices will be stupid.

The lower orders, no matter how short of spondulics, all have mobile
phones. Note the heavily pregnant seventeen year old. She is using the
baby buggy which contains her eldest child as a shield against the
traffic. As she drifts blindly across the road across in front of you,
notice that she is managing to push (if not control) the buggy with one
hand. The other hand is holding her phone to her jewel-encrusted ear.

Bill

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
Matty F wrote:

I would question the weightings of the items in their surveys. I don't
think that luxury items should be included, only things that people on
low

incomes need. So no BMWs, cell phones, avocadoes, etc. I have no idea what
items they choose but I'll bet many of their choices will be stupid.

The lower orders, no matter how short of spondulics, all have mobile
phones.

Only one?

Note the heavily pregnant seventeen year old. She is using the baby buggy
which contains her eldest child as a shield against the traffic. As she
drifts blindly across the road across in front of you, notice that she is
managing to push (if not control) the buggy with one hand. The other hand
is holding her phone to her jewel-encrusted ear.

Bill
Televisions, computers, scent, cosmetics, fancy clothes, hairdoes, nails,
pre-prepared food etc.

They have no idea what is is to be poor.
They might get chance to find out later on.

I would be surprised if the uncertainty was much
lower than 1%,

Do you mean 1% (eg CPI of 2.2 +/- 0.022 %) or 1% point (eg CPI of 2.2
+/- 1 %)?

Both are too extreme. The ONS used to reckon that +/- 0.1 percentage
points was about the margin for the year-on-year change but stressed
that that wasn't a "proper" statistical measure. They don't even
publish that now but hope to do somethingsoonish. See eg
cpigandm_tcm77-253092.pdf and
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/method-quality/quality/quality-information/economic-statistics/summary-quality-report-for-cpi.pdf

And remember ONS make available underlying data so you can always DIY an
index.

--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

cpigandm_tcm77-253092.pdf

Bugger. Sorry. Should have been
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/method-quality/quality/quality-information/economy/summary-quality-report-for-consumer-price-indices-.pdf
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

On 18/12/2013 08:33, Robin wrote:
I would be surprised if the uncertainty was much
lower than 1%,

Do you mean 1% (eg CPI of 2.2 +/- 0.022 %) or 1% point (eg CPI of 2.2
+/- 1 %)?

Both are too extreme. The ONS used to reckon that +/- 0.1 percentage
points was about the margin for the year-on-year change but stressed
that that wasn't a "proper" statistical measure. They don't even
publish that now but hope to do somethingsoonish. See eg
cpigandm_tcm77-253092.pdf and
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/method-quality/quality/quality-information/economic-statistics/summary-quality-report-for-cpi.pdf

Interesting that it does not mention RPIX, which is the one I normally
look at.

And remember ONS make available underlying data so you can always DIY an
index.

Colin Bignell

On Wednesday, 18 December 2013 02:29:51 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
Matty F wrote:



I would question the weightings of the items in their surveys. I don't think that luxury items should be included, only things that people on low



incomes need. So no BMWs, cell phones, avocadoes, etc. I have no idea

what items they choose but I'll bet many of their choices will be stupid.



The lower orders, no matter how short of spondulics, all have mobile

phones. Note the heavily pregnant seventeen year old. She is using the

baby buggy which contains her eldest child as a shield against the

traffic. As she drifts blindly across the road across in front of you,

notice that she is managing to push (if not control) the buggy with one

hand. The other hand is holding her phone to her jewel-encrusted ear.



Bill

And these 'lower orders' (ahem) of which you speak ... are they to be ...
condemned? ... pitied? ... villified?

Your dogma continues to be on show

J^n

On Wednesday, 18 December 2013 07:01:25 UTC, harry wrote:

[...]

They have no idea what is is to be poor.
They might get chance to find out later on.

and you see no poverty in all of this?

J^n

On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 15:49:04 -0800 (PST), Matty F
wrote:

I would question the weightings of the items in their surveys. I don't
think that luxury items should be included, only things that people on
low incomes need. So no BMWs, cell phones, avocadoes, etc. I have no
idea what items they choose but I'll bet many of their choices will be
stupid.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...cache:-uZ8MnZK
3lcJ:http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-meth...e/prices/cpi-a
nd-rpi/cpi-and-rpi-basket-of-goods-and-services/cpi-and-rpi-2013-baske
t-of-goods-and-services.pdf%2Bconsumer+prices+index+basket&gbv=1& ct=cl
nk

Consumer Prices Index: Cell phones and Avocadoes are in there ...

Doesn't seem to far from the mark but that document doesn't give
quantities or details of cars. Of course depending on your life style
whole sections can be ommitted like meat/fish/tobacco/booze...

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Robin" wrote in message
...
I would be surprised if the uncertainty was much
lower than 1%,

Do you mean 1% (eg CPI of 2.2 +/- 0.022 %) or 1% point (eg CPI of 2.2 +/-
1 %)?

The latter.

Both are too extreme. The ONS used to reckon that +/- 0.1 percentage
points was about the margin for the year-on-year change but stressed that
that wasn't a "proper" statistical measure. They don't even publish that
now but hope to do somethingsoonish. See eg cpigandm_tcm77-253092.pdf
and
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/method-quality/quality/quality-information/economic-statistics/summary-quality-report-for-cpi.pdf

And remember ONS make available underlying data so you can always DIY an
index.

--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 15:49:04 -0800, Matty F wrote:

One thing that is never mentioned in the official notices of inflation
rates is the level of uncertainty of the figures.

I would question the weightings of the items in their surveys. I don't
think that luxury items should be included, only things that people on
low incomes need. So no BMWs, cell phones, avocadoes, etc. I have no
idea what items they choose but I'll bet many of their choices will be
stupid.

http://data.gov.uk/dataset/cpi_and_r...s_and_services

On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 18:16:28 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 11:49:04 PM UTC, Matty F wrote:
On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:12:15 PM UTC+13, Jim Hawkins wrote:

One thing that is never mentioned in the official
notices of inflation rates is the level of uncertainty
of the figures.

I would question the weightings of the items in their surveys. I don't think that luxury items should be included, only things that people on low incomes need. So no BMWs, cell phones, avocadoes, etc. I have no idea what items they choose but I'll bet many of their choices will be stupid.

The official figures seem to have little connection to my experience of reality.

Quite. And they keep changing the goods in the 'basket'. IMHO this
is to artificially manupulate the figures. Of course you can
calculate your 'personal' inflation. Every time I have done this it
has been way higher than the official figures.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 13:48:37 +0000, Mark wrote:

Quite. And they keep changing the goods in the 'basket'. IMHO this is
to artificially manupulate the figures.

Do you buy the same stuff year after year after year? No, me neither.

It's quite a long while since I last bought any blank VHS tapes, for a
start.

wrote in message
...

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 11:49:04 PM UTC, Matty F wrote:
On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:12:15 PM UTC+13, Jim Hawkins wrote:

One thing that is never mentioned in the official
notices of inflation rates is the level of uncertainty
of the figures.

I would question the weightings of the items in their surveys. I don't
think that luxury items should be included, only things that people on
low incomes need. So no BMWs, cell phones, avocadoes, etc. I have no idea
what items they choose but I'll bet many of their choices will be stupid.

The official figures seem to have little connection to my experience of
reality.

Generally, reality has little connection to my experience of life.
:-/

"jkn" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 18 December 2013 07:01:25 UTC, harry wrote:

[...]

They have no idea what is is to be poor.
They might get chance to find out later on.

and you see no poverty in all of this?

Absolutely not.
Plenty of whingers about.
There is no real poverty in the UK nowadays..
There was poverty after WW2 for a few years.
There will be plenty of people here remember it.

You have to travel to third world countries to see poverty these days.
Todays youngsters haven't a clue.
But they may find out the hard way.
If it happens, older people will cope better, they will remember how.

On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 4:04:45 PM UTC, harry wrote:
"jkn" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 18 December 2013 07:01:25 UTC, harry wrote:

They have no idea what is is to be poor.
They might get chance to find out later on.

and you see no poverty in all of this?

Absolutely not.
Plenty of whingers about.
There is no real poverty in the UK nowadays..
There was poverty after WW2 for a few years.
There will be plenty of people here remember it.
You have to travel to third world countries to see poverty these days.
Todays youngsters haven't a clue.
But they may find out the hard way.
If it happens, older people will cope better, they will remember how.

I mostly agree. I have met people with nothing, but they're few in uk. Poverty is a much misused word here.


NT

On 18/12/2013 08:41, jkn wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 December 2013 07:01:25 UTC, harry wrote:

[...]

They have no idea what is is to be poor.
They might get chance to find out later on.

and you see no poverty in all of this?

J^n


There is little poverty, there is neglect caused by people spending what
they have on the wrong things.

The "official" idea of poverty being on less than 2/3 average wage is silly.

On Thursday, December 19, 2013 3:04:18 AM UTC+13, Adrian wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 13:48:37 +0000, Mark wrote:

Quite. And they keep changing the goods in the 'basket'. IMHO this is
to artificially manupulate the figures.

Do you buy the same stuff year after year after year? No, me neither.

It's quite a long while since I last bought any blank VHS tapes, for a
start.

I imagine that gas mantles would have been a significant expense over 130 years ago, but not light bulbs. Strangely enough I don't buy light bulbs any more, but I do want some gas mantles (to make LEDs look like gas lights!)

On 18/12/13 20:09, Matty F wrote:
On Thursday, December 19, 2013 3:04:18 AM UTC+13, Adrian wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 13:48:37 +0000, Mark wrote:

Quite. And they keep changing the goods in the 'basket'. IMHO this is
to artificially manupulate the figures.

Do you buy the same stuff year after year after year? No, me neither.

It's quite a long while since I last bought any blank VHS tapes, for a
start.

I imagine that gas mantles would have been a significant expense over 130 years ago, but not light bulbs. Strangely enough I don't buy light bulbs any more, but I do want some gas mantles (to make LEDs look like gas lights!)

well paraffin lamp mantles are still available cost I bought some


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 12:09:50 -0800, Matty F wrote:

I imagine that gas mantles would have been a significant expense over
130 years ago, but not light bulbs. Strangely enough I don't buy light
bulbs any more, but I do want some gas mantles (to make LEDs look like
gas lights!)

Camping shop.

On Thursday, December 19, 2013 9:46:31 AM UTC+13, Adrian wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 12:09:50 -0800, Matty F wrote:

Strangely enough I don't buy light
bulbs any more, but I do want some gas mantles (to make LEDs look like
gas lights!)

Camping shop.

The mantles will need to be 5 inches in diameter. I don't think I will find any that big. Besides I don't like working with thorium and cerium.
I will be making a diffuser out of Teflon sheet surrounded by nylon mesh.

On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 8:00:40 PM UTC, dennis@home wrote:

There is little poverty, there is neglect caused by people spending what
they have on the wrong things.

exactly

The "official" idea of poverty being on less than 2/3 average wage is silly.

Jim Hawkins wrote

One thing that is never mentioned in the official
notices of inflation rates is the level of uncertainty
of the figures.

Yes, I've never noticed anyone doing that world wide in any situation.

It is particularly inportant to know this

Not really when the real problem is that any inflation
number varys much more due to what is measured.

when much is being made of changes as small as 0.1%.

Only by journalists and politicians normally.

I would be surprised if the uncertainty was much lower than 1%,

Its actually much higher than that because of the extreme
variation in the inflation rate of the different components
like cheap stuff from china, food, rents, land, mortgages etc.

but perhaps someone in the know
will take the risk of enlightening us ?

Unlikely that no one does that world wide that I have ever noticed.

harryagain wrote
jkn wrote
harry wrote

They have no idea what is is to be poor.
They might get chance to find out later on.

and you see no poverty in all of this?

Absolutely not.
Plenty of whingers about.
There is no real poverty in the UK nowadays..
There was poverty after WW2 for a few years.
There will be plenty of people here remember it.

You have to travel to third world countries to see poverty these days.
Todays youngsters haven't a clue.
But they may find out the hard way.

I doubt it. If they didn’t as a result of the clowns
being allowed to implode much of the world
financial system, again, it aint gunna happen.

If it happens, older people will cope better, they will remember how.

Things have changed quite a bit on the detail
now tho, most obviously with heating costs.
And with the availability of welfare housing.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
harryagain wrote
jkn wrote
harry wrote

They have no idea what is is to be poor.
They might get chance to find out later on.

and you see no poverty in all of this?

Absolutely not.
Plenty of whingers about.
There is no real poverty in the UK nowadays..
There was poverty after WW2 for a few years.
There will be plenty of people here remember it.

You have to travel to third world countries to see poverty these days.
Todays youngsters haven't a clue.
But they may find out the hard way.

I doubt it. If they didn’t as a result of the clowns
being allowed to implode much of the world
financial system, again, it aint gunna happen.

???????

Things are NOT fixed.
We are being told lots of lies.
Apparently every household has a debt of £sixty odd grand on average.
(Public and private)
When that's paid off, then things will be fixed.
We (the gov) are still spending more than is collected in tax etc.
So the debt is still increasing.
(Nu Labour's debt)

The likely way it will be fixed is through massive inflation.
By accident or design.
(Zimbabwe?)

If it happens, older people will cope better, they will remember how.

Things have changed quite a bit on the detail
now tho, most obviously with heating costs.
And with the availability of welfare housing.
?????????????

There are lots of luxury item which some people think are neccessary.
People living in "welfare housing" are parasites.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 18/12/2013 08:41, jkn wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 December 2013 07:01:25 UTC, harry wrote:

[...]

They have no idea what is is to be poor.
They might get chance to find out later on.

and you see no poverty in all of this?

J^n


There is little poverty, there is neglect caused by people spending what
they have on the wrong things.

The "official" idea of poverty being on less than 2/3 average wage is
silly.

Exactly so.

"Matty F" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, December 19, 2013 3:04:18 AM UTC+13, Adrian wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 13:48:37 +0000, Mark wrote:

Quite. And they keep changing the goods in the 'basket'. IMHO this is
to artificially manupulate the figures.

Do you buy the same stuff year after year after year? No, me neither.

It's quite a long while since I last bought any blank VHS tapes, for a
start.

I imagine that gas mantles would have been a significant expense over 130
years ago, but not light bulbs. Strangely enough I don't buy light bulbs
any more, but I do want some gas mantles (to make LEDs look like gas
lights!)


Gas mantles.
Gas light manufacturers
www.sightdesigns.co.uk

Ask for Brian Harper.

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 16:04:45 -0000, "harryagain"
wrote:


"jkn" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 18 December 2013 07:01:25 UTC, harry wrote:

[...]

They have no idea what is is to be poor.
They might get chance to find out later on.

and you see no poverty in all of this?

Absolutely not.
Plenty of whingers about.
There is no real poverty in the UK nowadays..

Rubbish. Homelessness is on the increase and food banks getting
busier.

You have to travel to third world countries to see poverty these days.

Wrong.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

On 19/12/2013 09:37, Mark wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 16:04:45 -0000, "harryagain"
wrote:
Absolutely not.
Plenty of whingers about.
There is no real poverty in the UK nowadays..

Rubbish. Homelessness is on the increase and food banks getting
busier.

You have to travel to third world countries to see poverty these days.

Wrong.

I'm listening to BBC Radio London now, and they're discussing the number
of people living in sheds at the moment.

There was also an article yesterday on the news saying that in one
London borough, 46% of the council tenants are in arrears with the rent.

Britain is rapidly becoming a third world country.
--
Tciao for Now!

John.

In message , harryagain
writes

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
harryagain wrote
jkn wrote
harry wrote

They have no idea what is is to be poor.
They might get chance to find out later on.

and you see no poverty in all of this?

Absolutely not.
Plenty of whingers about.
There is no real poverty in the UK nowadays..
There was poverty after WW2 for a few years.
There will be plenty of people here remember it.

You have to travel to third world countries to see poverty these days.
Todays youngsters haven't a clue.
But they may find out the hard way.

I doubt it. If they didnt as a result of the clowns
being allowed to implode much of the world
financial system, again, it aint gunna happen.

???????

Things are NOT fixed.
We are being told lots of lies.
Apparently every household has a debt of £sixty odd grand on average.
(Public and private)
When that's paid off, then things will be fixed.
We (the gov) are still spending more than is collected in tax etc.
So the debt is still increasing.
(Nu Labour's debt)

The likely way it will be fixed is through massive inflation.
By accident or design.
(Zimbabwe?)

If it happens, older people will cope better, they will remember how.

Things have changed quite a bit on the detail
now tho, most obviously with heating costs.
And with the availability of welfare housing.
?????????????

There are lots of luxury item which some people think are neccessary.
People living in "welfare housing" are parasites.



Just like people with solar panels
--
bert

harryagain wrote
Rod Speed wrote
harryagain wrote
jkn wrote
harry wrote

They have no idea what is is to be poor.
They might get chance to find out later on.

and you see no poverty in all of this?

Absolutely not.
Plenty of whingers about.
There is no real poverty in the UK nowadays..
There was poverty after WW2 for a few years.
There will be plenty of people here remember it.

You have to travel to third world countries to see poverty these days.
Todays youngsters haven't a clue.
But they may find out the hard way.

I doubt it. If they didn’t as a result of the clowns
being allowed to implode much of the world
financial system, again, it aint gunna happen.

???????

Things are NOT fixed.

Sure, but we do make real progress. We got nothing
like what was seen during the great depression this
time around. We saw action taken very quickly this
time around, rather than that taking the best part
of 5 years to happen last time around.

And modern welfare is nothing like
what was done in the 30s either.

We are being told lots of lies.

Sure, but that always happens with all politicians.

Apparently every household has a debt of £sixty odd grand on average.
(Public and private)

The total public debt was much higher in the
great depression and we survived that fine.

When that's paid off,

We aren't that stupid. Its what drives modern economys.

then things will be fixed.

No.

We (the gov) are still spending more than is collected in tax etc.

Because everyone howls when they only
spend what has been collected in tax.

So the debt is still increasing.

Because it is recognised that when things
are bad, the govt needs to do that.

(Nu Labour's debt)

The likely way it will be fixed is through massive inflation.

Currently the problem is actually deflation.

By accident or design.
(Zimbabwe?)

We've never seen anything like that in the west with the
exception of germany between the wars and that was
done deliberately to pay reparations in worthless currency.

We got a clue on that too and did the
Marshall Plan instead the next time.

And that ensure that we never did see WW3.

If it happens, older people will cope better, they will remember how.

Things have changed quite a bit on the detail
now tho, most obviously with heating costs.
And with the availability of welfare housing.
?????????????

There are lots of luxury item which some people think are neccessary.

Sure, plenty believe that a fridge, something better than a
squat, a TV or radio are necessary when they clearly are not.

People living in "welfare housing" are parasites.

Separate issue entirely to your line that the older people
will cope better because they will remember how.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
harryagain wrote
Rod Speed wrote
harryagain wrote
jkn wrote
harry wrote

They have no idea what is is to be poor.
They might get chance to find out later on.

and you see no poverty in all of this?

Absolutely not.
Plenty of whingers about.
There is no real poverty in the UK nowadays..
There was poverty after WW2 for a few years.
There will be plenty of people here remember it.

You have to travel to third world countries to see poverty these days.
Todays youngsters haven't a clue.
But they may find out the hard way.

I doubt it. If they didn’t as a result of the clowns
being allowed to implode much of the world
financial system, again, it aint gunna happen.

???????

Things are NOT fixed.

Sure, but we do make real progress. We got nothing
like what was seen during the great depression this
time around. We saw action taken very quickly this
time around, rather than that taking the best part
of 5 years to happen last time around.

And modern welfare is nothing like
what was done in the 30s either.

We are being told lots of lies.

Sure, but that always happens with all politicians.

Apparently every household has a debt of £sixty odd grand on average.
(Public and private)

The total public debt was much higher in the
great depression and we survived that fine.


We did not survive it fine. Esp in the USA where people starved/froze to
death.
It could yet happen again because the problem is not fixed.
The danger will be over when it is fixed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yL8oJJAEDs

Don't be so stupid as to think it couldn't happen again.

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 16:04:45 -0000, "harryagain"
wrote:


"jkn" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 18 December 2013 07:01:25 UTC, harry wrote:

[...]

They have no idea what is is to be poor.
They might get chance to find out later on.

and you see no poverty in all of this?

Absolutely not.
Plenty of whingers about.
There is no real poverty in the UK nowadays..

Rubbish. Homelessness is on the increase and food banks getting
busier.


You ARE a half wit.
In third world countries there are no food banks and the homeless are not
housed.
Most of them are feckless idle parasites anyway.
What has happened to them is a result of decisions they took earlier.
Poverty is when you are starving.

Nu Labour managed for a while the override the consequenses of foolish
decisions.
They spent money we didn't have,
Like the proles going to Wonga.
Or spending their money on booze/other drugs/mobile phones.
But Bliar /Broon and co. were too stupid to understand that it could not go
on forever.
The pigeons have come home to roost.

All their foolishness has to be paid for.
I suspect Camoron hasn't the balls to sort matters out.

"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
On 19/12/2013 09:37, Mark wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 16:04:45 -0000, "harryagain"
wrote:
Absolutely not.
Plenty of whingers about.
There is no real poverty in the UK nowadays..

Rubbish. Homelessness is on the increase and food banks getting
busier.

You have to travel to third world countries to see poverty these days.

Wrong.

I'm listening to BBC Radio London now, and they're discussing the number
of people living in sheds at the moment.

There was also an article yesterday on the news saying that in one London
borough, 46% of the council tenants are in arrears with the rent.

Britain is rapidly becoming a third world country.

Yep.
Most of them are illegal immgrants.
Things will only get worse after Jan 1st 2014.
We need out of the EU and all this lot deported.
They will still come, their home countries/culture are sp ****ty.

We need to chuck the owners of these sheds in jail/deport them too.

On Fri, 20 Dec 2013 09:16:47 +0000, harryagain wrote:

There was also an article yesterday on the news saying that in one
London borough, 46% of the council tenants are in arrears with the
rent.

Most of them are illegal immgrants.
Things will only get worse after Jan 1st 2014.
We need out of the EU and all this lot deported.

Are you _really_ this terminally stupid?

Here's some clues...

ILLEGAL immigrants can't apply for council housing. If they did, they'd
be found in seconds by the borders agency and deported.

People coming to the UK from EU countries - including Romanians and
Bulgarians next year - aren't illegal immigrants. They're legal.

Leaving the EU won't make any difference to illegal migration. If
anything, it'll increase it.

Migrants from other EU countries, on average, pay more into the UK
exchequer and take less out than UK nationals do.

B'sides, if the UK DID expel all those who've migrated from other EU
countries, and all the UK nationals living elsewhere in the UK came back
to the UK, then the population here would INCREASE, since there's more of
"us" "there", than there are of "them" "here".

On Fri, 20 Dec 2013 09:12:29 -0000, "harryagain"
wrote:


"Mark" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 16:04:45 -0000, "harryagain"
wrote:


"jkn" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 18 December 2013 07:01:25 UTC, harry wrote:

[...]

They have no idea what is is to be poor.
They might get chance to find out later on.

and you see no poverty in all of this?

Absolutely not.
Plenty of whingers about.
There is no real poverty in the UK nowadays..

Rubbish. Homelessness is on the increase and food banks getting
busier.


You ARE a half wit.

Ah. You have no evidence to back up your claims.

In third world countries there are no food banks and the homeless are not
housed.

So what?

Most of them are feckless idle parasites anyway.

You know all of them then?

What has happened to them is a result of decisions they took earlier.
Poverty is when you are starving.

There is more than one definition of poverty. Maybe it's time you
bought a dictionary?
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

harryagain wrote
Rod Speed wrote
harryagain wrote
Rod Speed wrote
harryagain wrote
jkn wrote
harry wrote

They have no idea what is is to be poor.
They might get chance to find out later on.

and you see no poverty in all of this?

Absolutely not.
Plenty of whingers about.
There is no real poverty in the UK nowadays..
There was poverty after WW2 for a few years.
There will be plenty of people here remember it.

You have to travel to third world countries to see poverty these days.
Todays youngsters haven't a clue.
But they may find out the hard way.

I doubt it. If they didn’t as a result of the clowns
being allowed to implode much of the world
financial system, again, it aint gunna happen.

???????

Things are NOT fixed.

Sure, but we do make real progress. We got nothing
like what was seen during the great depression this
time around. We saw action taken very quickly this
time around, rather than that taking the best part
of 5 years to happen last time around.

And modern welfare is nothing like
what was done in the 30s either.

We are being told lots of lies.

Sure, but that always happens with all politicians.

Apparently every household has a debt of £sixty odd grand on average.
(Public and private)

The total public debt was much higher in the
great depression and we survived that fine.

We did not survive it fine.

We survived the PUBLIC DEBT fine. They survived
the PUBLIC DEBT that WW2 involved fine too.

Esp in the USA where people starved/froze to death.

That wasn’t the PUBLIC DEBT.

It could yet happen again

Not starved/froze to death, the problem now is obesity instead.

Certainly the implosion of much of the world
financial system could certainly happen again.

because the problem is not fixed.

It isnt something that can be fixed if you mean the potential
for the implosion of much of the world financial system again.

The danger will be over when it is fixed.

It can't be fixed. We are fresh out of magic wands to wave.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yL8oJJAEDs

There will always be some that **** up their basic living situation.

Don't be so stupid as to think it couldn't happen again.

Having fun thrashing that straw man ?

On Fri, 20 Dec 2013 12:05:18 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:

Sure, but we do make real progress.

"Real progress" towards what? Going cap in hand to the IMF like we had to
back in 1976?
All these politicians have done is loaded up the national debt (again) -
it's the only "solution" they can ever come up with. Kicking the can down
the road, but the bill will still have to be paid one day.
They should have let all those bent banks go to the wall back in 2008 and
jailed the *******s that ran them, then we might, just might, have been
on the road to some sort of real recovery by now.