On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 23:28:26 +0000, SteveW wrote:

On 06/12/2013 20:33, Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 18:51:08 -0000, "Gefreiter Krueger"
wrote:

On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 18:45:24 -0000, John Williamson wrote:

On 06/12/2013 18:31, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 18:26:59 -0000, SteveW
The most likely time to get your finger into a light fitting/connector
is when reaching up and replacing the bulb in the dark. It is exactly
the sort of thing that many people are quite likely to do.

If you're not confident in it, why not simply switch off the light
first? I thought most people did?

It's not so easy to be sure if, as the light in my stairwell is, it's
controlled by two switches. There's a 50/50 chance that no matter what
you do, it'll be live. That's assuming that some bright sparky hasn't
accidentally wired the switches in the neutral....

Don't you know which way up your switches are? I used to have switches like that - if they were facing the same way the light was on. And you can always remove the fuse (mind you apparently you can be clumsy enough to put your fingers in those too). I've got automatic lights in my house so I actually can't switch them off.

I must be as obsessive/compulsive as you then. When I wire two -way
circuit I always orient them (or swap the strappers) so same=on
different=off, but I doubt if there is a convention.

I have actually wired ours that way, but whether my wife would remember
to check if she needed to change the bulb while I was out is another matter.

Pull switches can also leave people in the dark (pun intended) about
whther the light is switched on or not.

SteveW

Hm, I've always done the opposite with 2-way switching. On the grounds that
'up is off' in general in the UK, when both are up (the nuture-intuitive
way) or down the socket is off and if either is down or up the socket is on.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 01:22:20 -0000, bm wrote:


"Gefreiter Krueger" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 00:15:55 -0000, SteveW
wrote:

On 07/12/2013 23:33, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 23:28:26 -0000, SteveW
wrote:

On 06/12/2013 20:33, Graham. wrote:






I have actually wired ours that way, but whether my wife would remember
to check if she needed to change the bulb while I was out is another
matter.

Pull switches can also leave people in the dark (pun intended) about
whther the light is switched on or not.

The bulb blows when you turn it on, so you know it's on.

Of course, but if it blows when the kids use it, in all likelihood
they'll switch it back and forth a few times to see if it suddenly comes
on.

I just don't stick my finger in the socket to test it. Simply insert the
new bulb by holding the glass/plastic. Or in the case of mine, the live
LEDs :-)

Why not? A wet finger into a 240v socket is the best way to test it. Jesus
H, you have a degree, you should know that.
Bloody kids.

Your finger doesn't need to be wet. And it works fine, but not if you're on a ladder as you fall off.

--
The teacher wrote "Like I ain't had no fun in months" on the board and then she said, "Timmy, how should I correct that?"
Timmy replied, "Maybe get a new boyfriend?"

On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 08:46:11 -0000, PeterC wrote:

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 23:28:26 +0000, SteveW wrote:

On 06/12/2013 20:33, Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 18:51:08 -0000, "Gefreiter Krueger"
wrote:

On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 18:45:24 -0000, John Williamson wrote:

On 06/12/2013 18:31, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:

It's not so easy to be sure if, as the light in my stairwell is, it's
controlled by two switches. There's a 50/50 chance that no matter what
you do, it'll be live. That's assuming that some bright sparky hasn't
accidentally wired the switches in the neutral....

Don't you know which way up your switches are? I used to have switches like that - if they were facing the same way the light was on. And you can always remove the fuse (mind you apparently you can be clumsy enough to put your fingers in those too). I've got automatic lights in my house so I actually can't switch them off.

I must be as obsessive/compulsive as you then. When I wire two -way
circuit I always orient them (or swap the strappers) so same=on
different=off, but I doubt if there is a convention.

I have actually wired ours that way, but whether my wife would remember
to check if she needed to change the bulb while I was out is another matter.

Pull switches can also leave people in the dark (pun intended) about
whther the light is switched on or not.

SteveW

Hm, I've always done the opposite with 2-way switching. On the grounds that
'up is off' in general in the UK, when both are up (the nuture-intuitive
way) or down the socket is off and if either is down or up the socket is on.

Illogical. Both down means two on switches. Confusing.

I prefer both the same, working together, on.

--
I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder.

On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 09:29:12 +0000, Stephen
wrote:

Yes you read that right... a GU10 to MR16 adapter....

Not often needed, but sometimes.
MR16 only means the pin-style fitting and not the voltage, anyway.

On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 18:01:39 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Ther wer a number of rivals for the design of fused plug. Two others that
I came across had round pins, but I suspect it was the mechanical strength
of the winner that was the reason for its selecton.

That and the need for it to be incompatible (and obviously so) from the
existing standard, so that one would not try using an unfused plug on a
socket fed from a circuit where one is required.

Hah; you've never seen a round pin plug filed to fit, then.

On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 18:51:08 -0000, "Gefreiter Krueger"
wrote:

I've got automatic lights in my house so I actually can't switch them off.

Controlled by the staff from outside?

On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 10:06:59 +0000, The Other Mike
wrote:

Disappointingly no ready made adaptors to enable the simultaneous connection of
an iron and a kettle using BS 546 plugs to a B22 lamp fitting although I suppose
I could roll my own using one of these

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bayonet-Adap...s=bulb+adaptor

Nah, you need a y-piece E27 and converters at each end.

On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 12:26:52 -0000, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 18:51:08 -0000, "Gefreiter Krueger"
wrote:

I've got automatic lights in my house so I actually can't switch them off.

Controlled by the staff from outside?

I wish. PIR detectors. It's so much easier not to have to keep switching lights on and off, especially if you're using both hands to carry something. Plus if you forget to turn one off, you don't waste electricity.

--
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those people I had to kill because they ****ed me off.

On Fri, 6 Dec 2013 22:17:56 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

Early installations were lighting only, and charged by the number
of lights.

Same here. I nearly bought an old cottage which had the original 1950s
electrical installation, untouched since day one. 20A meter by the
door, a light in the living room, one in the bedroom and one 15A
socket. Apparently, the REC installed the lights as part of the
connection fee, but sockets were charged extra.
Many people didn't have a wall socket at all, just plugging their
appliances into the lighting socket. Some show-offs had a dedicated 2A
or 5A socket in the living room next to a shelf where the big old
valve radio was sited.

In article ,
"Gefreiter Krueger" writes:
On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 12:26:52 -0000, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 18:51:08 -0000, "Gefreiter Krueger"
wrote:

I've got automatic lights in my house so I actually can't switch them off.

Controlled by the staff from outside?

I wish. PIR detectors. It's so much easier not to have to keep switching lights on and off, especially if you're using both hands to carry something. Plus if you forget to turn one off, you don't waste electricity.

+1 - mine are all on the home automation system.

I did connect up the switches too (they're all retractive switches,
as the switch position doesn't store the on/off state). However, the
switches are hardly ever used - pretty much only to turn off a light
instantly rather than waiting for it to go off on its timer, if you
know you won't need it again.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
Andy Wade writes:
On 06/12/2013 10:04, Tim Watts wrote:
On Friday 06 December 2013 09:39 Andy Burns wrote in uk.d-i-y:

but apparently you're not allowed to use larger than a 5A fuse in
the fused 15A versions.

That does seem to make no sense whatsoever...

For an appliance needing more than 5 A you just use an unfused plug.
The flex of such an appliance will be large enough to be protected by
the upstream fuse or MCB - 20 A max. Fused plugs are used for low
current appliances which tend to have smaller flexes, requiring local
protection.

The little (3/4 x 3/16 in.) BS 646 fuses used in round pin plugs are
only available up to 5 A rating in any case.

The MK fused round pin plugs (the only ones still manufactured AFAIK)
use BS1362 fuses. I have had one or two much older makes which used
BS646 fuses (also in clock points, although the later versions of
those also switched to BS1362).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 13:18:15 -0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
"Gefreiter Krueger" writes:
On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 12:26:52 -0000, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 18:51:08 -0000, "Gefreiter Krueger"
wrote:

I've got automatic lights in my house so I actually can't switch them off.

Controlled by the staff from outside?

I wish. PIR detectors. It's so much easier not to have to keep switching lights on and off, especially if you're using both hands to carry something. Plus if you forget to turn one off, you don't waste electricity.

+1 - mine are all on the home automation system.

I did connect up the switches too (they're all retractive switches,
as the switch position doesn't store the on/off state). However, the
switches are hardly ever used - pretty much only to turn off a light
instantly rather than waiting for it to go off on its timer, if you
know you won't need it again.

I don't want to bother doing that. I want it fully automated.

--
Condoms aren't completely safe. A friend of mine was wearing one and got hit by a bus.

In article ,
SteveW writes:
On 06/12/2013 19:54, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo ,
escribió:

I'm happy to say. But no BS approval, you're on your own there

That GU10 to MR16 adapter doesn't look like a brilliant idea, given that
GU10 is 240V and MR16 is 12V.

Plenty of MR16 230V lamps for sale out there. I wonder if that is
correct or is it that the connection is the same, but they should be
referred to as something else?

MR16 doesn't describe the lamp base - that's really GU 5.3 on MR16's.
GU 5.3 (and similar GX 5.3, which is what most of the lampholders are)
have a max voltage of 50V.
There are some other 5.3mm pin bases which are rated up to 120V.
I think you have to go up to 6.35mm pin bases before you find 240V
ratings.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
Illogical. Both down means two on switches. Confusing.
I prefer both the same, working together, on.

Confusing to me. I prefer an installation where if I put *every*
*single* *switch* in the up position, it's guaranteed that all
the lights are turned off. If the power is off or the bulb is
dead or the fitting is being replaced how do you know which is
the matching switch that this one should be the opposite of?

jgh

On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 14:07:02 -0000, wrote:

Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
Illogical. Both down means two on switches. Confusing.
I prefer both the same, working together, on.

Confusing to me. I prefer an installation where if I put *every*
*single* *switch* in the up position, it's guaranteed that all
the lights are turned off. If the power is off or the bulb is
dead or the fitting is being replaced how do you know which is
the matching switch that this one should be the opposite of?

That is also true the way I do it. All the same = off. Therefore all up = off. Mind you if you have three switches that doesn't work right. Only all off would match.

Anyway does it really matter? It's very easy to change a lightbulb without putting your fingers anywhere near the light socket. Just like you don't turn off the main power to the consumer unit when you pull a fuse cartridge. You'd be putting the whole house off and have to reset all the clocks etc.

--
How many potheads does it take to change a light bulb?
Two. One to hold the bulb against the socket, and the other to smoke up until the room starts spinning.

On Sun, 8 Dec 2013 06:07:02 -0800 (PST), wrote:

Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
Illogical. Both down means two on switches. Confusing.
I prefer both the same, working together, on.

Confusing to me. I prefer an installation where if I put *every*
*single* *switch* in the up position, it's guaranteed that all
the lights are turned off. If the power is off or the bulb is
dead or the fitting is being replaced how do you know which is
the matching switch that this one should be the opposite of?

jgh

Indeed - what I didn't say, as it's obvious, that whenever both switches are
in the same position they're off; when 'odd' they're on.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
That is also true the way I do it. All the same = off. Therefore
all up = off. Mind you if you have three switches that doesn't work right.

I've got three switches controlling my stairs lights, and the light
is off when all three are in the up position.

^ ^ ^ off
^ ^ v on
^ v v off
^ v ^ on
v v ^ off
v v v on
v ^ v off
v ^ ^ on
^ ^ ^ off again.

jgh

In message ,
writes
Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
That is also true the way I do it. All the same = off. Therefore
all up = off. Mind you if you have three switches that doesn't work right.

I've got three switches controlling my stairs lights, and the light
is off when all three are in the up position.

^ ^ ^ off

^ ^ v on

^ v v off

^ v ^ on

v v ^ off

v v v on

v ^ v off

v ^ ^ on

^ ^ ^ off again.


jgh

013267540

There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand
binary, and those who don't.
--
Bill

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 19:55:53 -0000, Bill wrote:

In message ,
writes
Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
That is also true the way I do it. All the same = off. Therefore
all up = off. Mind you if you have three switches that doesn't work right.

I've got three switches controlling my stairs lights, and the light
is off when all three are in the up position.

^ ^ ^ off

^ ^ v on

^ v v off

^ v ^ on

v v ^ off

v v v on

v ^ v off

v ^ ^ on

^ ^ ^ off again.


jgh

013267540

There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand
binary, and those who don't.

I was going to say something like that, but does the order matter in this case? And what's 013267540 mean?

--
Don't adopt a dwarf with learning difficulties. It's NOT big, and it's NOT clever.

On 08/12/2013 20:20, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 19:55:53 -0000, Bill wrote:

In message ,
writes
Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
That is also true the way I do it. All the same = off. Therefore
all up = off. Mind you if you have three switches that doesn't work
right.

I've got three switches controlling my stairs lights, and the light
is off when all three are in the up position.

^ ^ ^ off

^ ^ v on

^ v v off

^ v ^ on

v v ^ off

v v v on

v ^ v off

v ^ ^ on

^ ^ ^ off again.


jgh

013267540

There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand
binary, and those who don't.

I was going to say something like that, but does the order matter in
this case? And what's 013267540 mean?


Google for octal.

On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 21:52:52 -0000, dennis@home wrote:

On 08/12/2013 20:20, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 19:55:53 -0000, Bill wrote:

In message ,
writes
Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
That is also true the way I do it. All the same = off. Therefore
all up = off. Mind you if you have three switches that doesn't work
right.

I've got three switches controlling my stairs lights, and the light
is off when all three are in the up position.

^ ^ ^ off

^ ^ v on

^ v v off

^ v ^ on

v v ^ off

v v v on

v ^ v off

v ^ ^ on

^ ^ ^ off again.


jgh

013267540

There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand
binary, and those who don't.

I was going to say something like that, but does the order matter in
this case? And what's 013267540 mean?


Google for octal.

According to my graphic calculator, that's 2977632 in decimal, or 2D6F60 in hex, which makes a murky turquoise colour in RGB.

--
Dreaming frees the soul, energizes the spirit and allows you to do things that would get your ass thrown in jail if you really tried them.

In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes
On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 19:55:53 -0000, Bill wrote:

In message ,
writes
Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
That is also true the way I do it. All the same = off. Therefore
all up = off. Mind you if you have three switches that doesn't work right.

I've got three switches controlling my stairs lights, and the light
is off when all three are in the up position.


- - - 421
^ ^ ^ off
0

^ ^ v on
1

^ v v off
3

^ v ^ on
2

v v ^ off
6

v v v on
7

v ^ v off
5

v ^ ^ on
4

^ ^ ^ off again.
0


013267540

There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand
binary, and those who don't.

I was going to say something like that, but does the order matter in
this case? And what's 013267540 mean?


Depends how you read the binary settings of the switches. Not that they
are binary, just reminded me of it.


--
Bill

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 23:34:46 -0000, Bill wrote:

In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes
On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 19:55:53 -0000, Bill wrote:

In message ,
writes
Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
That is also true the way I do it. All the same = off. Therefore
all up = off. Mind you if you have three switches that doesn't work right.

I've got three switches controlling my stairs lights, and the light
is off when all three are in the up position.


- - - 421
^ ^ ^ off
0

^ ^ v on
1

^ v v off
3

^ v ^ on
2

v v ^ off
6

v v v on
7

v ^ v off
5

v ^ ^ on
4

^ ^ ^ off again.
0


013267540

There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand
binary, and those who don't.

I was going to say something like that, but does the order matter in
this case? And what's 013267540 mean?


Depends how you read the binary settings of the switches. Not that they
are binary, just reminded me of it.

Of course they're binary. Each switch only has two positions. But they don't make up one binary number in the sense that each one is worth twice the one to the right.

--
Bills travel through the mail at twice the speed of cheques.

In article ,
"Gefreiter Krueger" writes:
On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 23:34:46 -0000, Bill wrote:

In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes
On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 19:55:53 -0000, Bill wrote:

In message ,
writes
Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
That is also true the way I do it. All the same = off. Therefore
all up = off. Mind you if you have three switches that doesn't work right.

I've got three switches controlling my stairs lights, and the light
is off when all three are in the up position.


- - - 421
^ ^ ^ off
0

^ ^ v on
1

^ v v off
3

^ v ^ on
2

v v ^ off
6

v v v on
7

v ^ v off
5

v ^ ^ on
4

^ ^ ^ off again.
0


013267540

There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand
binary, and those who don't.

I was going to say something like that, but does the order matter in
this case? And what's 013267540 mean?


Depends how you read the binary settings of the switches. Not that they
are binary, just reminded me of it.

Of course they're binary. Each switch only has two positions. But they don't make up one binary number in the sense that each one is worth twice the one to the right.

Well actually, it's the parity of that binary number which
you don't think they make up that gives you the on or off status.
Parity is not impacted by the order of the bits, but that number
is useful.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Mon, 09 Dec 2013 01:32:20 -0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
"Gefreiter Krueger" writes:
On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 23:34:46 -0000, Bill wrote:

In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes
On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 19:55:53 -0000, Bill wrote:

In message ,
writes


- - - 421

0


1


3


2


6


7


5


4


0


013267540

There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand
binary, and those who don't.

I was going to say something like that, but does the order matter in
this case? And what's 013267540 mean?


Depends how you read the binary settings of the switches. Not that they
are binary, just reminded me of it.

Of course they're binary. Each switch only has two positions. But they don't make up one binary number in the sense that each one is worth twice the one to the right.

Well actually, it's the parity of that binary number which
you don't think they make up that gives you the on or off status.
Parity is not impacted by the order of the bits, but that number
is useful.

Semantics. Is your telephone number a number? It's really a code. It's not 53 billion 497 million etc...

--
Did you hear about the guy who finally figured out women?
He died laughing before he could tell anybody.

Bill wrote:
There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who
understand binary, and those who don't.

I was going it in Gray Code, where only one bit changes at a time,
which results in the state of the light toggling each time. Doing
it in binary order would result in a list going:
off on on off on off off on

jgh

On 08/12/2013 19:55, Bill wrote:
In message ,
writes
Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
That is also true the way I do it. All the same = off. Therefore
all up = off. Mind you if you have three switches that doesn't work
right.

I've got three switches controlling my stairs lights, and the light
is off when all three are in the up position.

^ ^ ^ off

^ ^ v on

^ v v off

^ v ^ on

v v ^ off

v v v on

v ^ v off

v ^ ^ on

^ ^ ^ off again.


jgh

013267540

There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand
binary, and those who don't.

.... and those that realise this is a ternary joke ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

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