This Moretti kitchen tap
http://www.screwfix.com/p/moretti-fo...-chrome/70183#
is stated to be push-fit.

I've never used push-fit, only either soldered or with olives.

1. Is push-fit suitable for hot and cold water supply to kitchen tap?
NB: Cold is mains pressure.

2. How reliable are push-fit fittings?

3. How are they installed? Simply pushed on, then water turned back
on?

4. Is there anything special about the tap tails that make them
suitable for push-fit, or can push-fit be used anywhere? Any tap?

5. Can one get push-fit for BOTH ends, not just the tap end? (The
pipes have soldered (Yorkshire) fittings on the current mixer tap.)

6. Do plumbers use push-fit, or is this method considered to be a bit
Heath-Robinson?

Cheers!

MM

On Thursday 05 September 2013 08:51 MM wrote in uk.d-i-y:

This Moretti kitchen tap
http://www.screwfix.com/p/moretti-fo...r-kitchen-tap-
chrome/70183#
is stated to be push-fit.

I've never used push-fit, only either soldered or with olives.

I can answer for JG Speedfit specifically:

1. Is push-fit suitable for hot and cold water supply to kitchen tap?
NB: Cold is mains pressure.

Yes - I have hot water upto 5 bar too.

2. How reliable are push-fit fittings?

IME, very. However I do wonder what will happen in 10-20 years with the O-
ring.

3. How are they installed? Simply pushed on, then water turned back
on?

Pushed ontop clean (not necessarily bright) copper or onto the plastic pipe
after inserting a special insert for plastic. Then the locking nut is done
up by hand.

4. Is there anything special about the tap tails that make them
suitable for push-fit, or can push-fit be used anywhere? Any tap?

You can get push fit - 1/2 or 3/4 tap connectors, or flexi tails with push
fit on one end or just use a short piece of copper and a regular tap
connector.

5. Can one get push-fit for BOTH ends, not just the tap end? (The
pipes have soldered (Yorkshire) fittings on the current mixer tap.)

???

6. Do plumbers use push-fit, or is this method considered to be a bit
Heath-Robinson?

Yes because it is faster.

For proper plumbing I use copper and solder or compression as I still
believe it is more proven. However for temporary stuff (as in a few years) I
have used lots of JG Speedfit.

Have a look at Cuprofit - brass push fit fittings - might be more to your
taste.

Cheers!

MM
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On Thu, 05 Sep 2013 08:51:19 +0100, MM wrote:

This Moretti kitchen tap

http://www.screwfix.com/p/moretti-fo...hen-tap-chrome
/70183#

WTF is a "Fluhs Cartridge"?

Is you HW also "high" pressure. The text description states the tap
is not suitable for gravity systems, this is inconsistent with the
bullet list...

Max pressure is also 5 bar, IIRC the minimum mains pressure is around
4 bar, some mains pressures are considerably higher. Worth checking.

1. Is push-fit suitable for hot and cold water supply to kitchen tap?
NB: Cold is mains pressure.

Yes.

2. How reliable are push-fit fittings?

Like all connections as reliable as the quality and care taken in
assembly. Pipe ends *have* to be square, clean cut and free of swarf
particulary on the outer edge.

3. How are they installed? Simply pushed on, then water turned back
on?

The fittings just push onto prepared plain pipe. Plastic pipe
requires an insert to rienforce it, copper pipe doesn't need an
insert.

4. Is there anything special about the tap tails that make them
suitable for push-fit, or can push-fit be used anywhere? Any tap?

TBH that description is so vauge I'm not sure what you are getting.
It mentions "M10 inlet size", which I expect to be the thread for the
ends of the tails to screw into. Presumably those tails have
prefitted pushfit connectors at the other end for connection to the
supply pipework.

I'd want to open the box and see what is there before commiting to
purchase.

5. Can one get push-fit for BOTH ends, not just the tap end? (The
pipes have soldered (Yorkshire) fittings on the current mixer tap.)

See above the tails will have M10 threaded ends to screw into the
base of the tap. To use the push fit connectors the existing tap
connectors(?) will have to be removed and the pipe ends cut back to
solder/paint free pipe.

6. Do plumbers use push-fit, or is this method considered to be a bit
Heath-Robinson?

Some do and plastic pipe. Personally I don't like it, the fittings
are large and knobbly, plastic pipe has a smaller bore than the same
nominal size copper and then you shove an insert into it at each
joint making the bore even smaller. Probably not a problem with a
fully mains pressure system but not so good in a gravity low pressure
one.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 05/09/2013 09:12, Tim Watts wrote:
On Thursday 05 September 2013 08:51 MM wrote in uk.d-i-y:

This Moretti kitchen tap
http://www.screwfix.com/p/moretti-fo...r-kitchen-tap-
chrome/70183#
is stated to be push-fit.

I've never used push-fit, only either soldered or with olives.

I can answer for JG Speedfit specifically:

1. Is push-fit suitable for hot and cold water supply to kitchen tap?
NB: Cold is mains pressure.

Yes - I have hot water upto 5 bar too.

2. How reliable are push-fit fittings?

IME, very. However I do wonder what will happen in 10-20 years with the O-
ring.

I used push fit on air lines for decades without any problems, despite
much higher pressures and a fluid that is far more likely to leak.
However, as we know from one of this group's occasional contributors,
you can make a mess of the plumbing fittings by cutting the pipe with a
hacksaw, rather than using the correct pipe cutter.

Colin Bignell

On Thu, 05 Sep 2013 09:33:48 +0100, Nightjar
wrote:

On 05/09/2013 09:12, Tim Watts wrote:
On Thursday 05 September 2013 08:51 MM wrote in uk.d-i-y:

This Moretti kitchen tap
http://www.screwfix.com/p/moretti-fo...r-kitchen-tap-
chrome/70183#
is stated to be push-fit.

I've never used push-fit, only either soldered or with olives.

I can answer for JG Speedfit specifically:

1. Is push-fit suitable for hot and cold water supply to kitchen tap?
NB: Cold is mains pressure.

Yes - I have hot water upto 5 bar too.

2. How reliable are push-fit fittings?

IME, very. However I do wonder what will happen in 10-20 years with the O-
ring.

I used push fit on air lines for decades without any problems, despite
much higher pressures and a fluid that is far more likely to leak.
However, as we know from one of this group's occasional contributors,
you can make a mess of the plumbing fittings by cutting the pipe with a
hacksaw, rather than using the correct pipe cutter.

Colin Bignell

In the meantime I've discovered John Guest Speedfit monobloc
connection hoses, i.e. screw-end for screwing into tap and push-fit
(Speedfit) for connecting to the existing copper pipework.

So, replacing the sink and tap should be dead easy.

My plan:

1. Turn off water supplies (hot and cold).

2. Drain out residual water from pipes.

3. Saw through existing tap copper pipe tails (i.e. DON'T saw through
15mm copper feed pipes).

4. Remove old sink and tap as single unit.

5. Fit new tap to new sink.

6. Fit flexible hoses to tap.

7. Fit sink.

8. Use 15mm pipe cutter to cut through 15mm copper feed pipes.

9. Lightly polish (fine wire wool) the ends of the copper feed pipes
to remove any crud.

10. Push flexible hoses on to the feed pipes.

11. Turn on the water supplies and check for leaks.

Sounds about right?

Cheers!

MM

On Thu, 05 Sep 2013 09:30:07 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Thu, 05 Sep 2013 08:51:19 +0100, MM wrote:

This Moretti kitchen tap

http://www.screwfix.com/p/moretti-fo...hen-tap-chrome
/70183#

WTF is a "Fluhs Cartridge"?

Is you HW also "high" pressure.

No.

The text description states the tap
is not suitable for gravity systems, this is inconsistent with the
bullet list...

Yes, I saw that. But there are plenty of alternative, similar monobloc
taps that ARE suitable for gravity systems.

Max pressure is also 5 bar, IIRC the minimum mains pressure is around
4 bar, some mains pressures are considerably higher. Worth checking.

1. Is push-fit suitable for hot and cold water supply to kitchen tap?
NB: Cold is mains pressure.

Yes.

2. How reliable are push-fit fittings?

Like all connections as reliable as the quality and care taken in
assembly. Pipe ends *have* to be square, clean cut and free of swarf
particulary on the outer edge.

3. How are they installed? Simply pushed on, then water turned back
on?

The fittings just push onto prepared plain pipe. Plastic pipe
requires an insert to rienforce it, copper pipe doesn't need an
insert.

4. Is there anything special about the tap tails that make them
suitable for push-fit, or can push-fit be used anywhere? Any tap?

TBH that description is so vauge I'm not sure what you are getting.
It mentions "M10 inlet size", which I expect to be the thread for the
ends of the tails to screw into. Presumably those tails have
prefitted pushfit connectors at the other end for connection to the
supply pipework.

I just wondered whether push-fit needed any special kind of pipe, but
it appears that it doesn't. I've since found John Guest Speedfit
flexible hoses that screw into the tab, which should make the job even
easier.

I'd want to open the box and see what is there before commiting to
purchase.

If I buy from Screwfix, that is likely a possibility, since there is a
new branch near me.


5. Can one get push-fit for BOTH ends, not just the tap end? (The
pipes have soldered (Yorkshire) fittings on the current mixer tap.)

See above the tails will have M10 threaded ends to screw into the
base of the tap. To use the push fit connectors the existing tap
connectors(?) will have to be removed and the pipe ends cut back to
solder/paint free pipe.

No problem. I'd use my pipe cutter for that. The copper feed pipes are
dirty (after 10 years under the sink), but unpainted and free of
solder, so burnishing the ends with fine wire wool after cutting the
pipes to a suitable length should be fine.

6. Do plumbers use push-fit, or is this method considered to be a bit
Heath-Robinson?

Some do and plastic pipe. Personally I don't like it, the fittings
are large and knobbly, plastic pipe has a smaller bore than the same
nominal size copper and then you shove an insert into it at each
joint making the bore even smaller. Probably not a problem with a
fully mains pressure system but not so good in a gravity low pressure
one.

Thanks for the feedback.

MM

On Thu, 05 Sep 2013 09:12:20 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

2. How reliable are push-fit fittings?

IME, very. However I do wonder what will happen in 10-20 years with the
O-ring.

Just had a leak from a plastic fitting that is probably of that
vintage. We've been here 14 years, the previous owners did or had
done basically no work, they were here 10 years. The owners before
did the a lot of refurbishment/conversion about 10 years before
that...

This joint that leaked was of the plastic screw up compression
similar to those you find these days for blue HDPE. The collect and
sealing O ring on the plastic pipe side where were "as new", same for
the rather more complex copper side(*). I just wiped them clean,
adjusted the pipework to give clean and undistorted pipe ends and
reused.

The plastic pipe side failed as it had been under strain from the
pipework and the black thick walled plastic pipe had become
deformed/spilt but not right through.

Then the locking nut is done up by hand.

Locking nut? The stuff I've used just has a looseish collet, that
wobbles about in a no confidence inducing sort of way until the
system is pressurised. Some systems have a clip that can be inserted
between the collect flange and fitting to prevent "accidental
disengagement".

(*) Collet lined with grey gritty stuff that I though was some
strange deposit. End of collet fitted into a complex soft sealing
bung/washer. But all in "as new" condition. This is of course
plastics and soft nitrile(?) seals made 30 odd years ago what modern
stuff is like...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 05 Sep 2013 09:50:44 +0100, MM wrote:

7. Fit sink.

If the worktop cutout from old sink matches that required for new
sink.

10. Push flexible hoses on to the feed pipes.

If they are long enough to reach cut off pipes and/or flexible enough
to mate without putting too much bend/strain on things.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 05 Sep 2013 09:57:08 +0100, MM wrote:

No problem. I'd use my pipe cutter for that. The copper feed pipes are
dirty (after 10 years under the sink), but unpainted and free of
solder, so burnishing the ends with fine wire wool after cutting the
pipes to a suitable length should be fine.

The copper needs to smooth and clean doesn't have to be bright. What
you don't want is a sharp leading edge or any swarf. A pipe cutter
taken slowly should produce a clean gently rounded outer edge but
there may be a ring or arc of fine swarf on the inner edge.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 05/09/2013 09:12, Tim Watts wrote:
On Thursday 05 September 2013 08:51 MM wrote in uk.d-i-y:

snip


6. Do plumbers use push-fit, or is this method considered to be a bit
Heath-Robinson?

Yes because it is faster.

For proper plumbing I use copper and solder or compression as I still
believe it is more proven. However for temporary stuff (as in a few years) I
have used lots of JG Speedfit.

Have a look at Cuprofit - brass push fit fittings - might be more to your
taste.

Like Tim, I tend to use copper + solder/compression for permanent stuff,
but will just speedfit for temporary fittings (like temporarily capping
pipes when modifying a system). I wouldn't be too bothered about using
push fit to connect a tap like that because the connection would be
accessible (under sink cupboard), so easy to spot if it started
dripping, and easy to replace.



Cheers!

MM

On 05/09/2013 08:51, MM wrote:
This Moretti kitchen tap
http://www.screwfix.com/p/moretti-fo...-chrome/70183#
is stated to be push-fit.

I've never used push-fit, only either soldered or with olives.

1. Is push-fit suitable for hot and cold water supply to kitchen tap?
NB: Cold is mains pressure.

Yes

2. How reliable are push-fit fittings?

So Far so Good... (as long as your preparation and assembly is inline
with manufacturers instructions)

3. How are they installed? Simply pushed on, then water turned back
on?

Pretty much

4. Is there anything special about the tap tails that make them
suitable for push-fit, or can push-fit be used anywhere? Any tap?

You can buy flexi tails for any type of tap that have female push fit
fittings on one end.

5. Can one get push-fit for BOTH ends, not just the tap end? (The
pipes have soldered (Yorkshire) fittings on the current mixer tap.)

Yes

6. Do plumbers use push-fit, or is this method considered to be a bit
Heath-Robinson?

Its fast and cheap (especially with plastic pipe) so most plumbers will
use it for at least some work.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 05/09/2013 10:03, Dave Liquorice wrote:

Locking nut? The stuff I've used just has a looseish collet, that

Speedfit specifically - push pipe in, twist end to lock it.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 05/09/2013 09:30, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 05 Sep 2013 08:51:19 +0100, MM wrote:

This Moretti kitchen tap

http://www.screwfix.com/p/moretti-fo...hen-tap-chrome
/70183#

WTF is a "Fluhs Cartridge"?

A quarter turn valve made by these fols:

http://www.fluehs.de/


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thursday 05 September 2013 10:03 Dave Liquorice wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Thu, 05 Sep 2013 09:12:20 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

2. How reliable are push-fit fittings?

IME, very. However I do wonder what will happen in 10-20 years with the
O-ring.

Just had a leak from a plastic fitting that is probably of that
vintage. We've been here 14 years, the previous owners did or had
done basically no work, they were here 10 years. The owners before
did the a lot of refurbishment/conversion about 10 years before
that...

This joint that leaked was of the plastic screw up compression
similar to those you find these days for blue HDPE. The collect and
sealing O ring on the plastic pipe side where were "as new", same for
the rather more complex copper side(*). I just wiped them clean,
adjusted the pipework to give clean and undistorted pipe ends and
reused.

The plastic pipe side failed as it had been under strain from the
pipework and the black thick walled plastic pipe had become
deformed/spilt but not right through.

Then the locking nut is done up by hand.

Locking nut? The stuff I've used just has a looseish collet, that
wobbles about in a no confidence inducing sort of way until the
system is pressurised. Some systems have a clip that can be inserted
between the collect flange and fitting to prevent "accidental
disengagement".

Cannot be JG Speedfit - the collet/nut does up by about 1/4 turn and is
solid.


(*) Collet lined with grey gritty stuff that I though was some
strange deposit. End of collet fitted into a complex soft sealing
bung/washer. But all in "as new" condition. This is of course
plastics and soft nitrile(?) seals made 30 odd years ago what modern
stuff is like...


Not JG then - they are greased but not gritty.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On 05/09/2013 09:57, MM wrote:


I just wondered whether push-fit needed any special kind of pipe, but
it appears that it doesn't.

Copper pipe, and plastic with an insert are both fine.

The only time I've ever had a problem with push-fit was when I fitted a
brass drain-cock into a copper push-fit elbow. It pushed out under
pressure. It may have been that the brass tail wasn't quite long enough
to go all the way into the grab-ring - but I suspect that the brass was
too hard for the grab-ring to grip properly.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On Thu, 05 Sep 2013 09:30:07 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Thu, 05 Sep 2013 08:51:19 +0100, MM wrote:

This Moretti kitchen tap

http://www.screwfix.com/p/moretti-fo...hen-tap-chrome
/70183#

WTF is a "Fluhs Cartridge"?

Is you HW also "high" pressure. The text description states the tap
is not suitable for gravity systems, this is inconsistent with the
bullet list...

Max pressure is also 5 bar, IIRC the minimum mains pressure is around
4 bar, some mains pressures are considerably higher. Worth checking.

1. Is push-fit suitable for hot and cold water supply to kitchen tap?
NB: Cold is mains pressure.

Yes.

2. How reliable are push-fit fittings?

Like all connections as reliable as the quality and care taken in
assembly. Pipe ends *have* to be square, clean cut and free of swarf
particulary on the outer edge.

3. How are they installed? Simply pushed on, then water turned back
on?

The fittings just push onto prepared plain pipe. Plastic pipe
requires an insert to rienforce it, copper pipe doesn't need an
insert.

4. Is there anything special about the tap tails that make them
suitable for push-fit, or can push-fit be used anywhere? Any tap?

TBH that description is so vauge I'm not sure what you are getting.
It mentions "M10 inlet size", which I expect to be the thread for the
ends of the tails to screw into. Presumably those tails have
prefitted pushfit connectors at the other end for connection to the
supply pipework.

I'd want to open the box and see what is there before commiting to
purchase.

5. Can one get push-fit for BOTH ends, not just the tap end? (The
pipes have soldered (Yorkshire) fittings on the current mixer tap.)

See above the tails will have M10 threaded ends to screw into the
base of the tap. To use the push fit connectors the existing tap
connectors(?) will have to be removed and the pipe ends cut back to
solder/paint free pipe.

6. Do plumbers use push-fit, or is this method considered to be a bit
Heath-Robinson?

Some do and plastic pipe. Personally I don't like it, the fittings
are large and knobbly, plastic pipe has a smaller bore than the same
nominal size copper and then you shove an insert into it at each
joint making the bore even smaller. Probably not a problem with a
fully mains pressure system but not so good in a gravity low pressure
one.
Do plumbers sometimes use push fit in a corporate environment to avoid
the extra bureaucracy of doing "hot work"?

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On 05/09/2013 09:12, Tim Watts wrote:
On Thursday 05 September 2013 08:51 MM wrote in uk.d-i-y:

This Moretti kitchen tap
http://www.screwfix.com/p/moretti-fo...r-kitchen-tap-
chrome/70183#
is stated to be push-fit.

I've never used push-fit, only either soldered or with olives.

I can answer for JG Speedfit specifically:

1. Is push-fit suitable for hot and cold water supply to kitchen tap?
NB: Cold is mains pressure.

Yes - I have hot water upto 5 bar too.

2. How reliable are push-fit fittings?

IME, very. However I do wonder what will happen in 10-20 years with the O-
ring.

I have just chucked some PB pipe and fittings from a 30 year old install
and they were fine.
They only went because I can't get the inserts to fit so put in some PEX
pipe instead.
It's CH and hot/cold water supply.

On Thu, 05 Sep 2013 10:51:46 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

Then the locking nut is done up by hand.

Locking nut? The stuff I've used just has a looseish collet, that
wobbles about in a no confidence inducing sort of way until the
system is pressurised. Some systems have a clip that can be inserted
between the collect flange and fitting to prevent "accidental
disengagement".

Cannot be JG Speedfit - the collet/nut does up by about 1/4 turn and is
solid.

The Speedfit that I used about 6 - 7 years ago to replumb the house was
tightened just by the pressure or, to avoid the small axial movement, by
pulling the collet out with the pipe fully into the fitting. Has the system
changed? (I'm reluctant to mess about trying to turn a collet as the
evening's getting on and the pressure can get to 5 Bar here).
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

In article ,
Tim Watts writes:
On Thursday 05 September 2013 08:51 MM wrote in uk.d-i-y:
6. Do plumbers use push-fit, or is this method considered to be a bit
Heath-Robinson?

Yes because it is faster.

For proper plumbing I use copper and solder or compression as I still
believe it is more proven. However for temporary stuff (as in a few years) I
have used lots of JG Speedfit.

Exactly the same here.

Pushfit end-stops are also excellent for temporary use whilst doing
plumbing, and I have a handful of 15mm and 22mm ones in my plumbing
toolbox for this purpose.

It is important to make sure there's no strain on fittings - pipe
should be clamped to prevent it pulling out or pulling sideways.

Also, don't use on chromed pipe - the chrome is too hard for the
grab ring to bite into.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]