There's another couple of threads currently running about climate
change, but they've strayed somewhat off topic.

Spotted this in the Grauniad yesterday:

"Scientists link frozen spring to dramatic Arctic sea ice loss

Climate scientists have linked the massive snowstorms and bitter spring
weather now being experienced across Britain and large parts of Europe
and North America to the dramatic loss of Arctic sea ice"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...spring-arctic-
sea-ice-loss

Thoughts:

1) I know, it's the Grauniad

2) these are scientists, not greenies dressed up as scientists

3) I have no particular leanings either way on the climate change
argument. Some people say the amount of sea ice has hardly changed,
some say it's massively reduced. I don't know who to believe.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On Tuesday 26 March 2013 05:40 Mike Tomlinson wrote in uk.d-i-y:


There's another couple of threads currently running about climate
change, but they've strayed somewhat off topic.

Spotted this in the Grauniad yesterday:

"Scientists link frozen spring to dramatic Arctic sea ice loss

Climate scientists have linked the massive snowstorms and bitter spring
weather now being experienced across Britain and large parts of Europe
and North America to the dramatic loss of Arctic sea ice"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...spring-arctic-
sea-ice-loss

Thoughts:

1) I know, it's the Grauniad

2) these are scientists, not greenies dressed up as scientists

3) I have no particular leanings either way on the climate change
argument. Some people say the amount of sea ice has hardly changed,
some say it's massively reduced. I don't know who to believe.


I'm going with "weather is essentially random and has unpredictable
extremes" until enough real scientists say otherwise.

Here you go:

http://www.netweather.tv/index.cgi?a...winter-history

very similar to March 1962 which of course preceeded the famous winter of
1963.

Another notable one from the same link:

"1849: April, great snowstorm hit Southern England. Coaches buried in
drifts. Notably late snowfall."

So this winter is nothing that hasn't happened before - it's just the tip
end of an extreme. So I call "********" and "desparate to keep the [global
warming] dream alive".

Ask again if we get several Marches like this in short succession :-o
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

in 1215549 20130326 065810 Tim Watts wrote:
On Tuesday 26 March 2013 05:40 Mike Tomlinson wrote in uk.d-i-y:


There's another couple of threads currently running about climate
change, but they've strayed somewhat off topic.

Spotted this in the Grauniad yesterday:

"Scientists link frozen spring to dramatic Arctic sea ice loss

Climate scientists have linked the massive snowstorms and bitter spring
weather now being experienced across Britain and large parts of Europe
and North America to the dramatic loss of Arctic sea ice"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...spring-arctic-
sea-ice-loss

Thoughts:

1) I know, it's the Grauniad

2) these are scientists, not greenies dressed up as scientists

3) I have no particular leanings either way on the climate change
argument. Some people say the amount of sea ice has hardly changed,
some say it's massively reduced. I don't know who to believe.


I'm going with "weather is essentially random and has unpredictable
extremes" until enough real scientists say otherwise.

Here you go:

http://www.netweather.tv/index.cgi?a...winter-history

very similar to March 1962 which of course preceeded the famous winter of
1963.

Another notable one from the same link:

"1849: April, great snowstorm hit Southern England. Coaches buried in
drifts. Notably late snowfall."

So this winter is nothing that hasn't happened before - it's just the tip
end of an extreme. So I call "********" and "desparate to keep the [global
warming] dream alive".

Just what does a spell of British weather have to do with global climate?

On Tuesday 26 March 2013 08:25 Bob Martin wrote in uk.d-i-y:


Just what does a spell of British weather have to do with global climate?

My point exactly!

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

In article , Bob Martin
writes

[Please could you snip your quotes? Thanks]

Just what does a spell of British weather have to do with global climate?

But it's not just in the UK that we're experiencing weather extremes,
it's worldwide.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On Tuesday 26 March 2013 11:01 Mike Tomlinson wrote in uk.d-i-y:

In article , Bob Martin
writes

[Please could you snip your quotes? Thanks]

Just what does a spell of British weather have to do with global climate?

But it's not just in the UK that we're experiencing weather extremes,
it's worldwide.


There's "climate change" and there're "fluctuations in weather sometimes
hitting extremes".

I contend we are dealing with the latter until a majority or respectable
meteorologists agree otherwise.


--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On Tuesday, March 26, 2013 11:12:01 AM UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
On Tuesday 26 March 2013 11:01 Mike Tomlinson wrote in uk.d-i-y:



In article , Bob Martin

writes



[Please could you snip your quotes? Thanks]



Just what does a spell of British weather have to do with global climate?



But it's not just in the UK that we're experiencing weather extremes,

it's worldwide.





There's "climate change" and there're "fluctuations in weather sometimes

hitting extremes".



I contend we are dealing with the latter until a majority or respectable

meteorologists agree otherwise.

The documanetry I saw a while ago put most of it down to an extra 4% in humidity is what's causing the extremes. But the underlying trend, weather ;-) it be global warming or climate change does it realy matter if we can't do anything about it other than tax whatever they choose to blame.

On Tuesday, March 26, 2013 11:12:01 AM UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
On Tuesday 26 March 2013 11:01 Mike Tomlinson wrote in uk.d-i-y:



In article , Bob Martin

writes



[Please could you snip your quotes? Thanks]



Just what does a spell of British weather have to do with global climate?



But it's not just in the UK that we're experiencing weather extremes,

it's worldwide.





There's "climate change" and there're "fluctuations in weather sometimes

hitting extremes".



I contend we are dealing with the latter until a majority or respectable

meteorologists agree otherwise.





--

Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/



http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage



Reading this on the web? See:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

Whoops.
When I saw frozen spring I thought frozen well spring and thought that sounds interesting.

On 26/03/2013 11:12, Tim Watts wrote:
On Tuesday 26 March 2013 11:01 Mike Tomlinson wrote in uk.d-i-y:

In article , Bob Martin
writes

[Please could you snip your quotes? Thanks]

Just what does a spell of British weather have to do with global climate?

It may mean that we actually get weather more appropriate to our high
latitude in a world that is on average globally warmer but not for us.

But it's not just in the UK that we're experiencing weather extremes,
it's worldwide.

That can still be a sampling effect we get much better reporting of
weather extremes now than we have had in previous decades.

There's "climate change" and there're "fluctuations in weather sometimes
hitting extremes".

It is impossible to tell from any single incident, but if it keeps on
happening then I think you have to accept that the climate is changing.
When "hundred year floods" occur every couple of years I think you have
to pay attention to the risks of building new homes on flood plains.

Plenty of homes have been built on fields that locals knew were very
dodgy but that doesn't help the incomers until they get wet feet.

BTW What happened to the uninsurable flood insurance showdown?

I contend we are dealing with the latter until a majority or respectable
meteorologists agree otherwise.

The vast majority of respectable meteorologists have long since agreed
that global warming is a real effect and that CO2 and other greenhouse
gasses are responsible for driving it. It is hard to decide whether or
not the warmer world will be stormier with more extremes or not. You can
argue it either way from a physics point of view and either could be
correct depending on the circumstances - thermal gradient from pole to
equator will decrease as the poles warm faster but a warmer atmosphere
will carry more water vapour and with it latent heat. Vertically there
may be a steeper thermal gradient at some latitudes.

There is a rearguard action by US coal, Exxon and it's deniers for hire
to prevent the general public hearing what scientists have to say. They
honed their disinformation skills working for big tobacco manufacturing
doubt to keep the suckers smoking. And it is a very effective tactic.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 26/03/13 11:12, Tim Watts wrote:
On Tuesday 26 March 2013 11:01 Mike Tomlinson wrote in uk.d-i-y:

In article , Bob Martin
writes

[Please could you snip your quotes? Thanks]

Just what does a spell of British weather have to do with global climate?

But it's not just in the UK that we're experiencing weather extremes,
it's worldwide.


There's "climate change" and there're "fluctuations in weather sometimes
hitting extremes".


ad climate change is f course the longer term change in the average of
the weather.

I contend we are dealing with the latter until a majority or respectable
meteorologists agree otherwise.


I contend its a false and arbitrary distinction invented in a hurry by
warmists to explain why it isn't getting warmer.



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:12:01 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:

There's "climate change" and there're "fluctuations in weather sometimes
hitting extremes".

I contend we are dealing with the latter until a majority or respectable
meteorologists agree otherwise.

They do:
http://www.desmogblog.com/2012/11/15...niers-have-no-
credibility-science-one-pie-chart
- but that only shows what a seamless conspiracy they're part of (almost
as hermetic as the moon landing hoax).

But fortunately we've got plenty of Internet non-meteorologists
demolishing their warmist myths by pointing out blatantly obvious factors
that thousands of professionals in the field have all overlooked.


--
John Stumbles

Never believe anyone who claims to be a liar

On Mar 26, 11:01*am, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In article , Bob Martin
writes

[Please could you snip your quotes? Thanks]

Just what does a spell of British weather have to do with global climate?

But it's not just in the UK that we're experiencing weather extremes,

We are not experiencing extremes.

MBQ

On Mar 26, 12:02*pm, "Man at B&Q" wrote:
On Mar 26, 11:01*am, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

In article , Bob Martin
writes

[Please could you snip your quotes? Thanks]

Just what does a spell of British weather have to do with global climate?

But it's not just in the UK that we're experiencing weather extremes,

We are not experiencing extremes.

MBQ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scienti...climate_change

If you want to look at record extremes, you'll find most are fairly
recent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_weather_records

On 26/03/2013 11:01, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In article , Bob Martin
writes

[Please could you snip your quotes? Thanks]

Just what does a spell of British weather have to do with global climate?

But it's not just in the UK that we're experiencing weather extremes,
it's worldwide.


What extremes?
Just because something is the best/worst on record doesn't make it an
extreme.
Most weather records haven't been kept for long enough to know what the
extremes are.
Even in the UK many records are only for the last 20-40 years.

The current British weather is not even extreme we have had far worse in
the last 50 years.

On 26/03/13 13:00, dennis@home wrote:
On 26/03/2013 11:01, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In article , Bob Martin
writes

[Please could you snip your quotes? Thanks]

Just what does a spell of British weather have to do with global
climate?

But it's not just in the UK that we're experiencing weather extremes,
it's worldwide.


What extremes?
Just because something is the best/worst on record doesn't make it an
extreme.
Most weather records haven't been kept for long enough to know what the
extremes are.
Even in the UK many records are only for the last 20-40 years.

The current British weather is not even extreme we have had far worse in
the last 50 years.
well 1962 /63 was below zero from Dec 26th to practically the end of
march, and IIRC snow fell on many occasions during that period.

They told us it was the start of a new ice age.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 26/03/2013 13:00, dennis@home wrote:
On 26/03/2013 11:01, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In article , Bob Martin
writes

[Please could you snip your quotes? Thanks]

Just what does a spell of British weather have to do with global
climate?

But it's not just in the UK that we're experiencing weather extremes,
it's worldwide.


What extremes?
Just because something is the best/worst on record doesn't make it an
extreme.
Most weather records haven't been kept for long enough to know what the
extremes are.
Even in the UK many records are only for the last 20-40 years.

The current British weather is not even extreme we have had far worse in
the last 50 years.

Considering how long we have had people recording the weather (Fitzroy
systematically - and many, many others with varying accuracy and
completeness over at least many centuries), I fail to understand why
they keep referring to "since records began" as referring to a period
within my own lifetime. Have they thrown all the old records out? Have
they decided that the standards to which they were made are not
compatible? If they have done that, then they need to be much more
forthcoming about what they actually mean.

--
Rod

On 26/03/13 11:01, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In article , Bob Martin
writes

[Please could you snip your quotes? Thanks]

Just what does a spell of British weather have to do with global climate?

But it's not just in the UK that we're experiencing weather extremes,
it's worldwide.

The odds of *some* part of the world experiencing a weather extreme in
any given year are about 100:1 on.

the odds of breaking a 100 year record of some kind or other in any
given year in any given country are also very high.. Greater than 50%.

"Coldest temperatures ever recorded for 2 a.m. on March the 24th, at
Oban' say weather experts.

etc etc.

The point is weather and climate have massive natural variation and we
have a very poor handle on it without introducing the straw man of AGW.

we always have experienced extreme weather events in the UK and
worldwide. They just weren't very newsworthy.

Heck nobody even HEARD of Bangladesh before the Beatles. But they had
been starving to death for decades. The world is littered with dead
civilisations who appeared to have been able to support themselves on
land which has been desert for at least 2000 years in some cases.

climate change got them.

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 26/03/2013 13:08, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/03/13 11:01, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In article , Bob Martin
writes

[Please could you snip your quotes? Thanks]

Just what does a spell of British weather have to do with global
climate?

But it's not just in the UK that we're experiencing weather extremes,
it's worldwide.

The odds of *some* part of the world experiencing a weather extreme in
any given year are about 100:1 on.

the odds of breaking a 100 year record of some kind or other in any
given year in any given country are also very high.. Greater than 50%.

"Coldest temperatures ever recorded for 2 a.m. on March the 24th, at
Oban' say weather experts.

etc etc.

The point is weather and climate have massive natural variation and we
have a very poor handle on it without introducing the straw man of AGW.

we always have experienced extreme weather events in the UK and
worldwide. They just weren't very newsworthy.

Heck nobody even HEARD of Bangladesh before the Beatles. But they had
been starving to death for decades. The world is littered with dead
civilisations who appeared to have been able to support themselves on
land which has been desert for at least 2000 years in some cases.

climate change got them.

Wasn't it East Pakistan before?

--
Rod

On 26/03/13 08:25, Bob Martin wrote:
in 1215549 20130326 065810 Tim Watts wrote:
On Tuesday 26 March 2013 05:40 Mike Tomlinson wrote in uk.d-i-y:


There's another couple of threads currently running about climate
change, but they've strayed somewhat off topic.

Spotted this in the Grauniad yesterday:

"Scientists link frozen spring to dramatic Arctic sea ice loss

Climate scientists have linked the massive snowstorms and bitter spring
weather now being experienced across Britain and large parts of Europe
and North America to the dramatic loss of Arctic sea ice"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...spring-arctic-
sea-ice-loss

Thoughts:

1) I know, it's the Grauniad

2) these are scientists, not greenies dressed up as scientists

3) I have no particular leanings either way on the climate change
argument. Some people say the amount of sea ice has hardly changed,
some say it's massively reduced. I don't know who to believe.


I'm going with "weather is essentially random and has unpredictable
extremes" until enough real scientists say otherwise.

Here you go:

http://www.netweather.tv/index.cgi?a...winter-history

very similar to March 1962 which of course preceeded the famous winter of
1963.

Another notable one from the same link:

"1849: April, great snowstorm hit Southern England. Coaches buried in
drifts. Notably late snowfall."

So this winter is nothing that hasn't happened before - it's just the tip
end of an extreme. So I call "********" and "desparate to keep the [global
warming] dream alive".

Just what does a spell of British weather have to do with global climate?

more than you think.

Unless Britain is now located on the planet Zarg.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 26/03/2013 8:25 AM, Bob Martin wrote:
in 1215549 20130326 065810 Tim wrote:
On Tuesday 26 March 2013 05:40 Mike Tomlinson wrote in uk.d-i-y:


There's another couple of threads currently running about climate
change, but they've strayed somewhat off topic.

Spotted this in the Grauniad yesterday:

"Scientists link frozen spring to dramatic Arctic sea ice loss

Climate scientists have linked the massive snowstorms and bitter spring
weather now being experienced across Britain and large parts of Europe
and North America to the dramatic loss of Arctic sea ice"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...spring-arctic-
sea-ice-loss

Thoughts:

1) I know, it's the Grauniad

2) these are scientists, not greenies dressed up as scientists

3) I have no particular leanings either way on the climate change
argument. Some people say the amount of sea ice has hardly changed,
some say it's massively reduced. I don't know who to believe.


I'm going with "weather is essentially random and has unpredictable
extremes" until enough real scientists say otherwise.

Here you go:

http://www.netweather.tv/index.cgi?a...winter-history

very similar to March 1962 which of course preceeded the famous winter of
1963.

Another notable one from the same link:

"1849: April, great snowstorm hit Southern England. Coaches buried in
drifts. Notably late snowfall."

So this winter is nothing that hasn't happened before - it's just the tip
end of an extreme. So I call "********" and "desparate to keep the [global
warming] dream alive".

Just what does a spell of British weather have to do with global climate?


Britain's recent cold snap may have more to do with the Jet Stream
moving further south during the last 7 years allowing the NE colder
climate to have an effect?

--
Learn why we are suffering..
www.zeitgeistthefilm.com/

On 26/03/13 16:52, RayL12 wrote:


Britain's recent cold snap may have more to do with the Jet Stream
moving further south during the last 7 years allowing the NE colder
climate to have an effect?


the question is: why has it moved?

Global warming?

A butterfly farted in Buenos Aires?

A chicken crossed a road in Texas?

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 26/03/2013 4:55 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/03/13 16:52, RayL12 wrote:


Britain's recent cold snap may have more to do with the Jet Stream
moving further south during the last 7 years allowing the NE colder
climate to have an effect?


the question is: why has it moved?

Global warming?

A butterfly farted in Buenos Aires?

A chicken crossed a road in Texas?



Very good!


--
One click voting to change the world.
https://secure.avaaz.org/en/
Join Now! Be a part of people power.

On Tuesday 26 March 2013 16:52 RayL12 wrote in uk.d-i-y:


Britain's recent cold snap may have more to do with the Jet Stream
moving further south during the last 7 years allowing the NE colder
climate to have an effect?

I heard it was the Jet stream being too far south. Did not realise it has
been going that way for 7 years.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On 26/03/2013 17:14, Tim Watts wrote:
On Tuesday 26 March 2013 16:52 RayL12 wrote in uk.d-i-y:


Britain's recent cold snap may have more to do with the Jet Stream
moving further south during the last 7 years allowing the NE colder
climate to have an effect?

I heard it was the Jet stream being too far south. Did not realise it has
been going that way for 7 years.


Of course, for all we know, it was going the wrong way for a very long
time before that and is now reverting to where it should be.

Colin Bignell

On Mar 26, 8:25*am, Bob Martin wrote:
in 1215549 20130326 065810 Tim Watts wrote:









On Tuesday 26 March 2013 05:40 Mike Tomlinson wrote in uk.d-i-y:

There's another couple of threads currently running about climate
change, but they've strayed somewhat off topic.

Spotted this in the Grauniad yesterday:

"Scientists link frozen spring to dramatic Arctic sea ice loss

Climate scientists have linked the massive snowstorms and bitter spring
weather now being experienced across Britain and large parts of Europe
and North America to the dramatic loss of Arctic sea ice"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...spring-arctic-
sea-ice-loss

Thoughts:

1) I know, it's the Grauniad

2) these are scientists, not greenies dressed up as scientists

3) I have no particular leanings either way on the climate change
argument. *Some people say the amount of sea ice has hardly changed,
some say it's massively reduced. *I don't know who to believe.

I'm going with "weather is essentially random and has unpredictable
extremes" until enough real scientists say otherwise.

Here you go:

http://www.netweather.tv/index.cgi?a...winter-history

very similar to March 1962 which of course preceeded the famous winter of
1963.

Another notable one from the same link:

"1849: April, great snowstorm hit Southern England. Coaches buried in
drifts. Notably late snowfall."

So this winter is nothing that hasn't happened before - it's just the tip
end of an extreme. So I call "********" and "desparate to keep the [global
warming] dream alive".

Just what does a spell of British weather have to do with global climate?

You got that wrong. It's what has global climate got to do with
British weather?

I'd have thought it was apparent to even you now.
Extreme weather events becoming more frequent is the answer.

On 26/03/2013 16:56, harry wrote:


I'd have thought it was apparent to even you now.
Extreme weather events becoming more frequent is the answer.

Can you provide a chart of extreme weather event frequency over a
suitably large stretch of time?

And is one countrywide, multi-day, heavily snow-drifted situation one
event? And a waterspout off the Isle of Wight another? Or each stroke of
lightning (pretty extreme at the point it strikes)?

--
Rod

On 26/03/2013 16:56, harry wrote:

I'd have thought it was apparent to even you now.
Extreme weather events becoming more frequent is the answer.


Which extreme events are they?
how much more frequent?
from when?

Anyone would think the population has forgotten 1963 when there was some
winter weather. Or maybe one of the very frequent ones before then.

On 26/03/13 16:56, harry wrote:
On Mar 26, 8:25 am, Bob Martin wrote:
in 1215549 20130326 065810 Tim Watts wrote:









On Tuesday 26 March 2013 05:40 Mike Tomlinson wrote in uk.d-i-y:

There's another couple of threads currently running about climate
change, but they've strayed somewhat off topic.

Spotted this in the Grauniad yesterday:

"Scientists link frozen spring to dramatic Arctic sea ice loss

Climate scientists have linked the massive snowstorms and bitter spring
weather now being experienced across Britain and large parts of Europe
and North America to the dramatic loss of Arctic sea ice"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...spring-arctic-
sea-ice-loss

Thoughts:

1) I know, it's the Grauniad

2) these are scientists, not greenies dressed up as scientists

3) I have no particular leanings either way on the climate change
argument. Some people say the amount of sea ice has hardly changed,
some say it's massively reduced. I don't know who to believe.

I'm going with "weather is essentially random and has unpredictable
extremes" until enough real scientists say otherwise.

Here you go:

http://www.netweather.tv/index.cgi?a...winter-history

very similar to March 1962 which of course preceeded the famous winter of
1963.

Another notable one from the same link:

"1849: April, great snowstorm hit Southern England. Coaches buried in
drifts. Notably late snowfall."

So this winter is nothing that hasn't happened before - it's just the tip
end of an extreme. So I call "********" and "desparate to keep the [global
warming] dream alive".

Just what does a spell of British weather have to do with global climate?

You got that wrong. It's what has global climate got to do with
British weather?

I'd have thought it was apparent to even you now.
Extreme weather events becoming more frequent is the answer.


except they aren't becoming more frequent at all.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

in 1215859 20130326 195027 The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/03/13 16:56, harry wrote:
On Mar 26, 8:25 am, Bob Martin wrote:
in 1215549 20130326 065810 Tim Watts wrote:









On Tuesday 26 March 2013 05:40 Mike Tomlinson wrote in uk.d-i-y:

There's another couple of threads currently running about climate
change, but they've strayed somewhat off topic.

Spotted this in the Grauniad yesterday:

"Scientists link frozen spring to dramatic Arctic sea ice loss

Climate scientists have linked the massive snowstorms and bitter spring
weather now being experienced across Britain and large parts of Europe
and North America to the dramatic loss of Arctic sea ice"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...spring-arctic-
sea-ice-loss

Thoughts:

1) I know, it's the Grauniad

2) these are scientists, not greenies dressed up as scientists

3) I have no particular leanings either way on the climate change
argument. Some people say the amount of sea ice has hardly changed,
some say it's massively reduced. I don't know who to believe.

I'm going with "weather is essentially random and has unpredictable
extremes" until enough real scientists say otherwise.

Here you go:

http://www.netweather.tv/index.cgi?a...winter-history

very similar to March 1962 which of course preceeded the famous winter of
1963.

Another notable one from the same link:

"1849: April, great snowstorm hit Southern England. Coaches buried in
drifts. Notably late snowfall."

So this winter is nothing that hasn't happened before - it's just the tip
end of an extreme. So I call "********" and "desparate to keep the [global
warming] dream alive".

Just what does a spell of British weather have to do with global climate?

You got that wrong. It's what has global climate got to do with
British weather?

I'd have thought it was apparent to even you now.
Extreme weather events becoming more frequent is the answer.


except they aren't becoming more frequent at all.

Yes they are.
(Note that my statement has as much supporting evidence as yours.)

Mike Tomlinson wrote on Mar 26, 2013:

3) I have no particular leanings either way on the climate change
argument. Some people say the amount of sea ice has hardly changed,
some say it's massively reduced. I don't know who to believe.

I don't think there is any doubt that the arctic sea ice has reduced over the
last decade. The fact that the north west passage is now routinely navigable
during summer months is surely sufficient evidence of this?

https://hapaglloydcruises.wordpress....hwest-passage/

--
Mike Lane
UK North Yorkshire
mike_lane at mac dot com

On 26/03/2013 08:23, Mike Lane wrote:
Mike Tomlinson wrote on Mar 26, 2013:

3) I have no particular leanings either way on the climate change
argument. Some people say the amount of sea ice has hardly changed,
some say it's massively reduced. I don't know who to believe.

I don't think there is any doubt that the arctic sea ice has reduced over the
last decade. The fact that the north west passage is now routinely navigable
during summer months is surely sufficient evidence of this?

https://hapaglloydcruises.wordpress....hwest-passage/

Roald Amundsen navigated it at the beginning of the 20th century and, if
you read the small print, Hapag Lloyd include a lot of let out clauses
that allow them to modify the itinerary.

Colin Bignell

Nightjar wrote on Mar 26, 2013:

On 26/03/2013 08:23, Mike Lane wrote:
Mike Tomlinson wrote on Mar 26, 2013:

3) I have no particular leanings either way on the climate change
argument. Some people say the amount of sea ice has hardly changed,
some say it's massively reduced. I don't know who to believe.

I don't think there is any doubt that the arctic sea ice has reduced over
the
last decade. The fact that the north west passage is now routinely navigable
during summer months is surely sufficient evidence of this?

https://hapaglloydcruises.wordpress....hwest-passage/

Roald Amundsen navigated it at the beginning of the 20th century and...


Yes but it took him nearly three years to do it (1903 - 1906) - hardly a
pleasure cruise!

--
Mike Lane
UK North Yorkshire
mike_lane at mac dot com

On 26/03/2013 10:36, Mike Lane wrote:
Nightjar wrote on Mar 26, 2013:

On 26/03/2013 08:23, Mike Lane wrote:
Mike Tomlinson wrote on Mar 26, 2013:

3) I have no particular leanings either way on the climate change
argument. Some people say the amount of sea ice has hardly changed,
some say it's massively reduced. I don't know who to believe.

I don't think there is any doubt that the arctic sea ice has reduced over
the
last decade. The fact that the north west passage is now routinely navigable
during summer months is surely sufficient evidence of this?

https://hapaglloydcruises.wordpress....hwest-passage/

Roald Amundsen navigated it at the beginning of the 20th century and...


Yes but it took him nearly three years to do it (1903 - 1906) - hardly a
pleasure cruise!

Scientific expeditions rarely are and it demonstrates that the passage
has been navigable before. As I pointed out in the rest of my post,
Hapag Lloyd don't guarantee that they will do it at all.

Colin Bignell

Nightjar wrote on Mar 26, 2013:

On 26/03/2013 10:36, Mike Lane wrote:
Nightjar wrote on Mar 26, 2013:

On 26/03/2013 08:23, Mike Lane wrote:
Mike Tomlinson wrote on Mar 26, 2013:

3) I have no particular leanings either way on the climate change
argument. Some people say the amount of sea ice has hardly changed,
some say it's massively reduced. I don't know who to believe.

I don't think there is any doubt that the arctic sea ice has reduced over
the
last decade. The fact that the north west passage is now routinely
navigable
during summer months is surely sufficient evidence of this?

https://hapaglloydcruises.wordpress....hwest-passage/

Roald Amundsen navigated it at the beginning of the 20th century and...


Yes but it took him nearly three years to do it (1903 - 1906) - hardly a
pleasure cruise!

Scientific expeditions rarely are and it demonstrates that the passage
has been navigable before. As I pointed out in the rest of my post,
Hapag Lloyd don't guarantee that they will do it at all.

Colin Bignell

I'm sure many, if not all cruise companies have let out clauses in their
contracts - they'd be foolish not to. The fact remains that they expect to be
able to navigate the north west passage in a cruise ship, not a small shallow
draft fishing vessel

--
Mike Lane
UK North Yorkshire
mike_lane at mac dot com

On Mar 26, 9:25*am, Nightjar
wrote:
On 26/03/2013 08:23, Mike Lane wrote:

Mike Tomlinson wrote on Mar 26, 2013:

3) I have no particular leanings either way on the climate change
argument. *Some people say the amount of sea ice has hardly changed,
some say it's massively reduced. *I don't know who to believe.

I don't think there is any doubt that the arctic sea ice has reduced over the
last decade. The fact that the north west passage is now routinely navigable
during summer months is surely sufficient evidence of this?

https://hapaglloydcruises.wordpress....hwest-passage/

Roald Amundsen navigated it at the beginning of the 20th century and, if
you read the small print, Hapag Lloyd include a lot of let out clauses
that allow them to modify the itinerary.

Colin Bignell

More ********
It took him three years to do it because of being locked in ice for
two years continously.
Not the Summer conditions prevailing today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwe...sen_expedition

On 26/03/2013 17:02, harry wrote:
On Mar 26, 9:25 am, Nightjar
wrote:
On 26/03/2013 08:23, Mike Lane wrote:

Mike Tomlinson wrote on Mar 26, 2013:

3) I have no particular leanings either way on the climate change
argument. Some people say the amount of sea ice has hardly changed,
some say it's massively reduced. I don't know who to believe.

I don't think there is any doubt that the arctic sea ice has reduced over the
last decade. The fact that the north west passage is now routinely navigable
during summer months is surely sufficient evidence of this?

https://hapaglloydcruises.wordpress....hwest-passage/

Roald Amundsen navigated it at the beginning of the 20th century and, if
you read the small print, Hapag Lloyd include a lot of let out clauses
that allow them to modify the itinerary.

Colin Bignell

More ********
It took him three years to do it because of being locked in ice for
two years continously.
Not the Summer conditions prevailing today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwe...sen_expedition

He was doing it in a fishing boat. Given the speed of a modern cruise
liner, he might well have completed in a single season. Read your own
link for the various people who have, from 1944 onwards.

Colin Bignell

Mike Lane wrote:
I don't think there is any doubt that the arctic sea ice has reduced over the
last decade. The fact that the north west passage is now routinely navigable
during summer months is surely sufficient evidence of this?

Even more interesting, the north-*east* passage is opening up to
navigation.
http://www.wunderground.com/climate/...rnPassages.asp

(Tho', every Google search for "northeast passage" says: "I think you
mean northwest passage")

JGH

On 26/03/13 08:23, Mike Lane wrote:
Mike Tomlinson wrote on Mar 26, 2013:

3) I have no particular leanings either way on the climate change
argument. Some people say the amount of sea ice has hardly changed,
some say it's massively reduced. I don't know who to believe.

I don't think there is any doubt that the arctic sea ice has reduced over the
last decade. The fact that the north west passage is now routinely navigable
during summer months is surely sufficient evidence of this?

https://hapaglloydcruises.wordpress....hwest-passage/

yes, it did. But so too has it done before, many times.
And this year its already well ABOVE last years figures.

I expect its 'only weather' after all :-)

hell we know that there were rising temps between 1970 and 1998, and
eventually that would cause ice to melt, and the melting of that ice -
as the AGW ists themselves told us, would potentially block the gulf
stream leading to colder NW europe.

What they didn't do was to finish that off by saying 'and that would of
course re-freeze the arctic'.

*shrug* so thirty years of warming has melted the arctic a bit, causing
colder weather that will re-freeze the arctic. It doesn't mean that CO2
has anything to do with it.


Its all part of the massive multi decadal climate oscillations that we
know happen anyway. El nino/La Nina, pacific decadal, North Atlantic
oscillation, etc etc. these all happen at different rates depending on
the time lags inherent in the air and water and land masses involved,
and sometimes they are all in step and we get GLOBAL WARMING or A MINI
ICE AGE and sometimes they are out of step and we get AVERAGE CLIMATE.

No CO2 is involved at all. No polar bears were harmed in the making of
this post. etc.




--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Mar 26, 12:59*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 26/03/13 08:23, Mike Lane wrote: Mike Tomlinson wrote on Mar 26, 2013:

3) I have no particular leanings either way on the climate change
argument. *Some people say the amount of sea ice has hardly changed,
some say it's massively reduced. *I don't know who to believe.

I don't think there is any doubt that the arctic sea ice has reduced over the
last decade. The fact that the north west passage is now routinely navigable
during summer months is surely sufficient evidence of this?

https://hapaglloydcruises.wordpress....hwest-passage/

yes, it did. But so too has it done before, many times.
And this year its already well ABOVE last years figures.

I expect its 'only weather' after all :-)

* hell we know that there were rising temps between 1970 and 1998, and
eventually that would cause ice to melt, and the melting of that ice -
as the AGW ists themselves told us, would potentially block the gulf
stream leading to colder NW europe.

What they didn't do was to finish that off by saying 'and that would of
course re-freeze the arctic'.

*shrug* so thirty years of warming has melted the arctic a bit, causing
colder weather that will re-freeze the arctic. It doesn't mean that CO2
has anything to do with it.

Its all part of the massive multi decadal climate oscillations that we
know happen anyway. El nino/La Nina, pacific decadal, North Atlantic
oscillation, etc etc. these all happen at different rates depending on
the time lags inherent in the air and water and land masses involved,
and sometimes they are all in step and we get GLOBAL WARMING or A MINI
ICE AGE and sometimes they are out of step and we get AVERAGE CLIMATE.

No CO2 is involved at all. No polar bears were harmed in the making of
this post. etc.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gl..._1880-2012.svg

On 26/03/2013 17:21, harry wrote:
On Mar 26, 12:59 pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
No CO2 is involved at all. No polar bears were harmed in the making of
this post. etc.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gl..._1880-2012.svg


From NASA. Well known for getting the science right and damn the funding.