I want to fit a socket on an exterior wall of my house for car
vacuuming, etc. Leaving Part P aside, would it be ok to break into an
existing ring, fit a fused spur and run a cable through the wall to the
socket as a radial circuit? The socket of course would be IP66 with an
integral RCD.

Farmer Giles wrote:

I want to fit a socket on an exterior wall of my house for car
vacuuming, etc. Leaving Part P aside, would it be ok to break into an
existing ring, fit a fused spur and run a cable through the wall to the
socket as a radial circuit? The socket of course would be IP66 with an
integral RCD.

Sounds good. Probably want to use a switched FCU, so there isn't power
available outside to all passers-by ...

On 11/02/2013 11:26, Andy Burns wrote:
Farmer Giles wrote:

I want to fit a socket on an exterior wall of my house for car
vacuuming, etc. Leaving Part P aside, would it be ok to break into an
existing ring, fit a fused spur and run a cable through the wall to the
socket as a radial circuit? The socket of course would be IP66 with an
integral RCD.

Sounds good. Probably want to use a switched FCU, so there isn't power
available outside to all passers-by ...



Oh yes, I would certainly do that. It would only be live when we were
out there doing something.

On 11/02/2013 11:20, Farmer Giles wrote:
I want to fit a socket on an exterior wall of my house for car
vacuuming, etc. Leaving Part P aside, would it be ok to break into an
existing ring, fit a fused spur and run a cable through the wall to the
socket as a radial circuit? The socket of course would be IP66 with an
integral RCD.

Yup - basically. You would ideally need a double pole isolation switch
inside to allow it to be turned off, and also to electrically remove it
from the system should it introduce a trip problem to the house in wet
weather etc.

Note if the circuit you feed it from already has an RCD protecting it,
you will derive no extra benefit from a second one (and they don't
discriminate either - so if an event happens that cause a trip, any
combination of one or both tripping could be the result)

Full details of all the wrinkles:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ricity_outside

--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 11/02/2013 12:20, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/02/2013 11:20, Farmer Giles wrote:
I want to fit a socket on an exterior wall of my house for car
vacuuming, etc. Leaving Part P aside, would it be ok to break into an
existing ring, fit a fused spur and run a cable through the wall to the
socket as a radial circuit? The socket of course would be IP66 with an
integral RCD.

Yup - basically. You would ideally need a double pole isolation switch
inside to allow it to be turned off, and also to electrically remove it
from the system should it introduce a trip problem to the house in wet
weather etc.

Note if the circuit you feed it from already has an RCD protecting it,
you will derive no extra benefit from a second one (and they don't
discriminate either - so if an event happens that cause a trip, any
combination of one or both tripping could be the result)

Full details of all the wrinkles:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ricity_outside



Thanks for that, John. The existing circuit is fed from an RCD protected
circuit, so dispensing the the integral RCD type will save me a few quid.

In article ,
Farmer Giles writes:
On 11/02/2013 12:20, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/02/2013 11:20, Farmer Giles wrote:
I want to fit a socket on an exterior wall of my house for car
vacuuming, etc. Leaving Part P aside, would it be ok to break into an
existing ring, fit a fused spur and run a cable through the wall to the
socket as a radial circuit? The socket of course would be IP66 with an
integral RCD.

Yup - basically. You would ideally need a double pole isolation switch
inside to allow it to be turned off, and also to electrically remove it
from the system should it introduce a trip problem to the house in wet
weather etc.

Note if the circuit you feed it from already has an RCD protecting it,
you will derive no extra benefit from a second one (and they don't
discriminate either - so if an event happens that cause a trip, any
combination of one or both tripping could be the result)

Full details of all the wrinkles:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ricity_outside



Thanks for that, John. The existing circuit is fed from an RCD protected
circuit, so dispensing the the integral RCD type will save me a few quid.

If you had needed an RCD, my recommendation is to fit this
separately inside. RCDs and outdoor condensation don't mix.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
Farmer Giles wrote:
I want to fit a socket on an exterior wall of my house for car
vacuuming, etc. Leaving Part P aside, would it be ok to break into an
existing ring, fit a fused spur and run a cable through the wall to the
socket as a radial circuit? The socket of course would be IP66 with an
integral RCD.

Before I had a CU with RCD, I used a RCD spur to feed a single outside
socket.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...e_2/index.html

--
*It doesn't take a genius to spot a goat in a flock of sheep *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 11/02/2013 13:00, Andrew Gabriel wrote:


If you had needed an RCD, my recommendation is to fit this
separately inside. RCDs and outdoor condensation don't mix.

+1

The RCD then also protects the cable going out through the wall.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 11/02/2013 13:18, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In articleSZudndvR1uKZSYXMnZ2dnUVZ8jSdnZ2d@brightvie w.co.uk,
Farmer wrote:
I want to fit a socket on an exterior wall of my house for car
vacuuming, etc. Leaving Part P aside, would it be ok to break into an
existing ring, fit a fused spur and run a cable through the wall to the
socket as a radial circuit? The socket of course would be IP66 with an
integral RCD.

Before I had a CU with RCD, I used a RCD spur to feed a single outside
socket.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...e_2/index.html

I've got several PowerBreaker H92s for outside sockets, pond electrics,
etc. [Mine are an earlier model, and look a bit different - but do the
same job]

It's easy to switch them off, simply by pressing the Test button. AIUI,
this then breaks both live and neutral.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:
Before I had a CU with RCD, I used a RCD spur to feed a single outside
socket.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...e_2/index.html

I've got several PowerBreaker H92s for outside sockets, pond electrics,
etc. [Mine are an earlier model, and look a bit different - but do the
same job]

It's easy to switch them off, simply by pressing the Test button. AIUI,
this then breaks both live and neutral.

Yup - if only someone made a normal flush type, even if it did need a
deeper box.

--
*Filthy stinking rich -- well, two out of three ain't bad

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Monday 11 February 2013 11:20 Farmer Giles wrote in uk.d-i-y:

I want to fit a socket on an exterior wall of my house for car
vacuuming, etc. Leaving Part P aside, would it be ok to break into an
existing ring, fit a fused spur and run a cable through the wall to the
socket as a radial circuit? The socket of course would be IP66 with an
integral RCD.

Absolutely fine

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

If you are reading this from a web interface eg DIY Banter,
DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and
you are merely using a web portal to a USENET group. Many people block
posters coming from web portals due to perceived SPAM or inaneness.
For a better method of access, please see:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On 11/02/2013 11:20, Farmer Giles wrote:
I want to fit a socket on an exterior wall of my house for car
vacuuming, etc. Leaving Part P aside, would it be ok to break into an
existing ring, fit a fused spur and run a cable through the wall to the
socket as a radial circuit? The socket of course would be IP66 with an
integral RCD.


Even easier - buy a kit -
http://www.screwfix.com/p/nexus-outd...cket-kit/78690

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Monday, February 11, 2013 12:20:15 PM UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/02/2013 11:20, Farmer Giles wrote:


Note if the circuit you feed it from already has an RCD protecting it,
you will derive no extra benefit from a second one (and they don't
discriminate either - so if an event happens that cause a trip, any
combination of one or both tripping could be the result).

Is that correct? I thought this was solved by having 'slow' and 'fast' trip RCDs so that the appropriate one blows first. Maybe that's only done to separate the 'whole house' RCD from the 'individual circuit' ones.

Robert

On Tuesday 12 February 2013 09:45 RobertL wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Monday, February 11, 2013 12:20:15 PM UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/02/2013 11:20, Farmer Giles wrote:


Note if the circuit you feed it from already has an RCD protecting it,
you will derive no extra benefit from a second one (and they don't
discriminate either - so if an event happens that cause a trip, any
combination of one or both tripping could be the result).

Is that correct?

Yes - it's completely randome which one trips - probably both as they will
have seen the current imbalance and started their trip sequence anyway.

I thought this was solved by having 'slow' and 'fast'
trip RCDs so that the appropriate one blows first. Maybe that's only done
to separate the 'whole house' RCD from the 'individual circuit' ones.

Robert

The "fast trip" are 40mS (ie the "standard" RCD) and are the slowest
permitted by the regs for the purposes of protecting someone who comes into
contact with a live.

I am not aware of an RCD that can trip faster than 40mS.

The "slow type" you speak of are Type S Time delayed and are for use with TT
(earth rod) installations and their purpose is protecting the cable against
I2t (energy) overload in the event of a L-E fault. They do not offer
suitable protection to people touching the live.


--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

If you are reading this from a web interface eg DIY Banter,
DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and
you are merely using a web portal to a USENET group. Many people block
posters coming from web portals due to perceived SPAM or inaneness.
For a better method of access, please see:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On 12/02/2013 09:45, RobertL wrote:
On Monday, February 11, 2013 12:20:15 PM UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/02/2013 11:20, Farmer Giles wrote:


Note if the circuit you feed it from already has an RCD protecting
it, you will derive no extra benefit from a second one (and they
don't discriminate either - so if an event happens that cause a
trip, any combination of one or both tripping could be the
result).

Is that correct?

Yup.

I thought this was solved by having 'slow' and
'fast' trip RCDs so that the appropriate one blows first.

You can do this in some cases, but the "slow" RCD (aka Type S or time
delayed) is not appropriate for protection against direct contact - so
you could not use it to protect a socket circuit. So you are reduced to
a normal speed 30mA trip RCD at the circuit origin, which leaves no
scope to have a faster RCD downstream.

Maybe
that's only done to separate the 'whole house' RCD from the
'individual circuit' ones.

Yup - common in TT installs.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/