Posted in another group:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...tonowhere.jpg/

what are these tracks for?

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On 13/12/2012 13:41, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

Posted in another group:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...tonowhere.jpg/

what are these tracks for?

I'd guess it's an antenna.

Chris Bartram wrote:
On 13/12/2012 13:41, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

Posted in another group:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...tonowhere.jpg/

what are these tracks for?

I'd guess it's an antenna.

+1. It's about the right size for a printed cellphone system (3G)
antenna. Reinforced by the SIM1 and SIM2 letering by it.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 13/12/12 13:41, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

Posted in another group:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...tonowhere.jpg/

what are these tracks for?

they are tuned circuits. open ended transmission lines. Or a bored
draughtsman doodling..


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 13/12/12 14:02, John Williamson wrote:
Chris Bartram wrote:
On 13/12/2012 13:41, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

Posted in another group:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...tonowhere.jpg/

what are these tracks for?

I'd guess it's an antenna.

+1. It's about the right size for a printed cellphone system (3G)
antenna. Reinforced by the SIM1 and SIM2 letering by it.

ah. could be that as well as a tuned circuit.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 15:35:06 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 13/12/12 14:02, John Williamson wrote:
Chris Bartram wrote:
On 13/12/2012 13:41, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

Posted in another group:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...tonowhere.jpg/

what are these tracks for?

I'd guess it's an antenna.

+1. It's about the right size for a printed cellphone system (3G)
antenna. Reinforced by the SIM1 and SIM2 letering by it.

ah. could be that as well as a tuned circuit.
Antennas are tuned circuits.

--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher writes:
On 13/12/12 13:41, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

Posted in another group:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...tonowhere.jpg/

what are these tracks for?

It's called a microstrip line, and they're used for several
different purposes.

they are tuned circuits. open ended transmission lines. Or a bored
draughtsman doodling..

Or a delay line - time to send a signal and reflect it from the end.

Particularly given the PCI bridge chip next to it, and that
PCI is an unterminated bus which relies on the signal reflection
from the far end of the bus in order to work. The bridge chip is
creating a new physical PCI bus, and it may be that the tracks to
the PCI devices on that bus are too short to meet any minimum
track lengths required for signal reflection detection, and need
to be artificially lengthed.

I have also seen antennas like this.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 13/12/12 15:40, Graham. wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 15:35:06 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 13/12/12 14:02, John Williamson wrote:
Chris Bartram wrote:
On 13/12/2012 13:41, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

Posted in another group:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...tonowhere.jpg/

what are these tracks for?

I'd guess it's an antenna.

+1. It's about the right size for a printed cellphone system (3G)
antenna. Reinforced by the SIM1 and SIM2 letering by it.

ah. could be that as well as a tuned circuit.
Antennas are tuned circuits.

Not necessarily. But all tuned circuits are antennae.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes

Particularly given the PCI bridge chip next to it, and that
PCI is an unterminated bus which relies on the signal reflection
from the far end of the bus in order to work. The bridge chip is
creating a new physical PCI bus, and it may be that the tracks to
the PCI devices on that bus are too short to meet any minimum
track lengths required for signal reflection detection, and need
to be artificially lengthed.

Tuned length termination stub sounds good to me.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On Dec 13, 4:07*pm, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,
* * * * The Natural Philosopher writes:

On 13/12/12 13:41, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

Posted in another group:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...tonowhere.jpg/

what are these tracks for?

It's called a microstrip line, and they're used for several
different purposes.

they are tuned circuits. open ended transmission lines. Or a bored
draughtsman doodling..

Or a delay line - time to send a signal and reflect it from the end.

Particularly given the PCI bridge chip next to it, and that
PCI is an unterminated bus which relies on the signal reflection
from the far end of the bus in order to work. The bridge chip is
creating a new physical PCI bus, and it may be that the tracks to
the PCI devices on that bus are too short to meet any minimum
track lengths required for signal reflection detection, and need
to be artificially lengthed.

That's an unlikely explanation. There's no active detection of the
reflection involved in PCI, and no minimum trace length. It's just the
way the drivers are specified to drive the bus lines.

MBQ

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ...
On 13/12/12 13:41, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

Posted in another group:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...tonowhere.jpg/

what are these tracks for?

they are tuned circuits. open ended transmission lines. Or a bored
draughtsman doodling..

You mean like Bill's name carved into the cliff of the IOW above Blackgangs (but below Balckgang Chine)

http://binged.it/RrnNYL

Tim

Maybe they used to make very big wedding cakes there and when they wanted to
move them...
There is a song about it
Tracks of my Tiers.

OK I'll go to sleep again now.

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Chris Bartram" wrote in message
...
On 13/12/2012 13:41, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

Posted in another group:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...tonowhere.jpg/

what are these tracks for?

I'd guess it's an antenna.

On 13/12/12 16:48, Tim+ wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ...
On 13/12/12 13:41, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

Posted in another group:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...tonowhere.jpg/

what are these tracks for?

they are tuned circuits. open ended transmission lines. Or a bored
draughtsman doodling..

You mean like Bill's name carved into the cliff of the IOW above Blackgangs (but below Balckgang Chine)

http://binged.it/RrnNYL

Tim

where DID you find THAT.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:21:15 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 13/12/12 16:48, Tim+ wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ...
On 13/12/12 13:41, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

Posted in another group:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...tonowhere.jpg/

what are these tracks for?

they are tuned circuits. open ended transmission lines. Or a bored
draughtsman doodling..

You mean like Bill's name carved into the cliff of the IOW above Blackgangs (but below Balckgang Chine)

http://binged.it/RrnNYL

Tim

where DID you find THAT.

MIkE is even clearer at Whale Chine.
Ok look, it's full of them, quite a bit further in the same direction
between IRB Sta and The Nodes can be found ROB

--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:48:16 +0000, Tim+ wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 13/12/12 13:41, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

Posted in another group:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...tonowhere.jpg/

what are these tracks for?

they are tuned circuits. open ended transmission lines. Or a bored
draughtsman doodling..

You mean like Bill's name carved into the cliff of the IOW above
Blackgangs (but below Balckgang Chine)

http://binged.it/RrnNYL

Tim

Wasn't the old canard that they were put there to catch people out for
copying maps ? I always thought "oh yeah", but a year working with a
digital mapping application proved otherwise. And it's really a neat idea.

I wonder if there are any pieces of electronic kit which have a useless
component soldered in isolation somewhere, just to be able to snare
counterfeits ?

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/12/12 16:48, Tim+ wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 13/12/12 13:41, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

Posted in another group:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...tonowhere.jpg/

what are these tracks for?

they are tuned circuits. open ended transmission lines. Or a bored
draughtsman doodling..

You mean like Bill's name carved into the cliff of the IOW above
Blackgangs (but below Balckgang Chine)

http://binged.it/RrnNYL

Tim

where DID you find THAT.



Read about it somewhere. Apparently bored cartographers have hidden lots of
names in map features like this.

Tim

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:38:15 +0000, Graham. wrote:

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:21:15 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 13/12/12 16:48, Tim+ wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 13/12/12 13:41, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

Posted in another group:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...tonowhere.jpg/

what are these tracks for?

they are tuned circuits. open ended transmission lines. Or a bored
draughtsman doodling..

You mean like Bill's name carved into the cliff of the IOW above
Blackgangs (but below Balckgang Chine)

http://binged.it/RrnNYL

Tim

where DID you find THAT.

MIkE is even clearer at Whale Chine.
Ok look, it's full of them, quite a bit further in the same direction
between IRB Sta and The Nodes can be found ROB

Could even be Robin.



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

In article
,
Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/12/12 16:48, Tim+ wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 13/12/12 13:41, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

Posted in another group:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...tonowhere.jpg/

what are these tracks for?

they are tuned circuits. open ended transmission lines. Or a bored
draughtsman doodling..

You mean like Bill's name carved into the cliff of the IOW above
Blackgangs (but below Balckgang Chine)

http://binged.it/RrnNYL

Tim

where DID you find THAT.



Read about it somewhere. Apparently bored cartographers have hidden lots
of names in map features like this.

my preference is for the farm in the Chilterns called "Hard to Find Farm".

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On 13/12/2012 18:27, charles wrote:
In article
,
Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/12/12 16:48, Tim+ wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 13/12/12 13:41, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

Posted in another group:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...tonowhere.jpg/

what are these tracks for?

they are tuned circuits. open ended transmission lines. Or a bored
draughtsman doodling..

You mean like Bill's name carved into the cliff of the IOW above
Blackgangs (but below Balckgang Chine)

http://binged.it/RrnNYL

Tim

where DID you find THAT.



Read about it somewhere. Apparently bored cartographers have hidden lots
of names in map features like this.

my preference is for the farm in the Chilterns called "Hard to Find Farm".

It's very easy to find in these days of Google. :-)

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/117388

A well-known egg producer with their products in many local shops.

--
Rod

fred wrote:
Tuned length termination stub sounds good to me.

All this makes sense, except... if you look at both sides, the other end of
the line doesn't connect to anything. It could possibly be a stub for a
buried trace (into a via in the hole) - if a signal was sandwiched between
two power planes and then emerge to the surface here. But otherwise I'm
having difficulty thinking what you'd put through a cable just to use a bit
of PCB as a stub/antenna. Particularly using a pin header as the connector.

But... maybe it's a manufacturing test. Connect your network analyser to
the SIM1 or SIM2 pins, check that the board fab is within spec. For PCIe
the board parameters matter quite a bit, so if the layers were the wrong
thickness this would be something this test would detect.

That's quite a neat idea. I might try it next time a do a fast board.

Theo

On 13/12/2012 17:38, Graham. wrote:
MIkE is even clearer at Whale Chine.
Ok look, it's full of them, quite a bit further in the same direction
between IRB Sta and The Nodes can be found ROB

Interestingly enough I have Memory Map 2004 with the IoW in 1:50000.
Bill is clearly visible, but Mike isn't. Although _some_ of the lines
that make up the name are present. And Robin is missing - although just
to the west on both is something that you could read as BIRST.

Andy

On 13/12/2012 23:12, Andy Champ wrote:
On 13/12/2012 17:38, Graham. wrote:
MIkE is even clearer at Whale Chine.
Ok look, it's full of them, quite a bit further in the same direction
between IRB Sta and The Nodes can be found ROB

Interestingly enough I have Memory Map 2004 with the IoW in 1:50000.
Bill is clearly visible, but Mike isn't. Although _some_ of the lines
that make up the name are present. And Robin is missing - although just
to the west on both is something that you could read as BIRST.

Andy

And Trevor?

--
Rod

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 23:16:19 +0000, polygonum
wrote:

On 13/12/2012 23:12, Andy Champ wrote:
On 13/12/2012 17:38, Graham. wrote:
MIkE is even clearer at Whale Chine.
Ok look, it's full of them, quite a bit further in the same direction
between IRB Sta and The Nodes can be found ROB

Interestingly enough I have Memory Map 2004 with the IoW in 1:50000.
Bill is clearly visible, but Mike isn't. Although _some_ of the lines
that make up the name are present. And Robin is missing - although just
to the west on both is something that you could read as BIRST.

Andy

And Trevor?

I read that Blackgang Chine is falling into the sean so a measure of
indetermainate doodling might be appropriate.

--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 13/12/12 13:41, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

Posted in another group:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...tonowhere.jpg/

what are these tracks for?

they are tuned circuits. open ended transmission lines. Or a bored
draughtsman doodling..


--


Presumably, we're looking at either side of the board here ? As one set of
squiggles seems to be connected to "sim1" and the other to "sim2" then maybe
it's a small amount of C with the PCB material as the dielectric ? I've seen
that done before. Or as others have said, transmission lines, maybe with the
bit of C to tune them. Or antennas with C ?

Arfa

On Dec 13, 5:50*pm, Tim+
wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:









On 13/12/12 16:48, Tim+ wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 13/12/12 13:41, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

Posted in another group:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...tonowhere.jpg/

what are these tracks for?

they are tuned circuits. open ended transmission lines. Or a bored
draughtsman doodling..

You mean like Bill's name carved into the cliff of the IOW above
Blackgangs (but below Balckgang Chine)

http://binged.it/RrnNYL

Tim

where DID you find THAT.

Read about it somewhere. Apparently bored cartographers have hidden lots of
names in map features like this.

Along with deliberate error that make it easy to trace copyright
violations.

MBQ

On Dec 13, 5:47*pm, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:48:16 +0000, Tim+ wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 13/12/12 13:41, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

Posted in another group:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...tonowhere.jpg/

what are these tracks for?

they are tuned circuits. open ended transmission lines. Or a bored
draughtsman doodling..

You mean like Bill's name carved into the cliff of the IOW above
Blackgangs (but below Balckgang Chine)

http://binged.it/RrnNYL

Tim

Wasn't the old canard that they were put there to catch people out for
copying maps ? I always thought "oh yeah", but a year working with a
digital mapping application proved otherwise. And it's really a neat idea..

I wonder if there are any pieces of electronic kit which have a useless
component soldered in isolation somewhere, just to be able to snare
counterfeits ?

A lot of electronic "counterfeits" are made on the same lines as the
real things and are indistinguishable.

MBQ

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:07:31 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:


It's called a microstrip line, and they're used for several
different purposes.

It is a pcb "test coupon" - used them loads of times either on the pcb
or just outside the board edge so that the stack can be tested before
breaking out the board.
Explanation and expoded diagram he-
http://www.polarinstruments.com/support/cits/AP124.html

In article , Jethro_uk
writes

I wonder if there are any pieces of electronic kit which have a useless
component soldered in isolation somewhere, just to be able to snare
counterfeits ?

Not quite the same thing, but:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/alichimp/2511265142/

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In article , Jethro_uk
writes

I wonder if there are any pieces of electronic kit which have a useless
component soldered in isolation somewhere, just to be able to snare
counterfeits ?

Not quite the same thing, but:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/alichimp/2511265142/

There are also stories of other things like trademarks being etched into
chips to try and prevent forgeries, or maybe they were just the chip
designer showing off...

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Dec 14, 9:18*am, Geo wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:07:31 +0000 (UTC),

(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
It's called a microstrip line, and they're used for several
different purposes.

It is a pcb "test coupon" -

I don't think so.

MBQ

On 14/12/2012 12:07, John Williamson wrote:
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In article , Jethro_uk
writes

I wonder if there are any pieces of electronic kit which have a
useless component soldered in isolation somewhere, just to be able to
snare counterfeits ?

Not quite the same thing, but:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/alichimp/2511265142/

There are also stories of other things like trademarks being etched into
chips to try and prevent forgeries, or maybe they were just the chip
designer showing off...


Its always tempting to put a rabbit or a dino in the tracking. ;-)

Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:38:15 +0000, Graham. wrote:

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:21:15 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 13/12/12 16:48, Tim+ wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 13/12/12 13:41, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

Posted in another group:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...tonowhere.jpg/

what are these tracks for?

they are tuned circuits. open ended transmission lines. Or a bored
draughtsman doodling..

You mean like Bill's name carved into the cliff of the IOW above
Blackgangs (but below Balckgang Chine)

http://binged.it/RrnNYL

Tim

where DID you find THAT.

MIkE is even clearer at Whale Chine.
Ok look, it's full of them, quite a bit further in the same direction
between IRB Sta and The Nodes can be found ROB

Could even be Robin.

To the west of Robin under Warren Fm is TREV.




--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

On 14/12/2012 14:40, Steve Firth wrote:
To the west of Robin under Warren Fm is TREV.

I see Trev, but alas! Brave Sir Robin...

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l17/Number774/IoW.jpg

It's interesting, this implies they have been added gradually.

Andy

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...

Posted in another group:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...tonowhere.jpg/

what are these tracks for?

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")



Long shot, but maybe a simple delay line, like you used to get in old colour
TV's?


Gareth

On 14/12/2012 13:30, dennis@home wrote:


Its always tempting to put a rabbit or a dino in the tracking. ;-)

In old Tektronic oscilloscope manuals there was often something in the
circuit/waveform diagrams, such a man skiing down a ramp waveform or a
climber on a rope scaling the diagram of the CRT.


--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

"Gareth Magennis" wrote in message
...


"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...

Posted in another group:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...tonowhere.jpg/

what are these tracks for?

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")



Long shot, but maybe a simple delay line, like you used to get in old
colour
TV's?


Gareth


Don't reckon you'd get much delay down a length of track like that, would
you ? And it seems to be open circuit at the end, anyway. The PAL delay
lines were a glass block with two transducers (lead zirconate titinate ??)
bonded to a pair of faces at a precision-cut angle. Early ones were a large
block with a single out / reflected path. Later ones were much smaller, and
the signal bounced around several times before exiting. Total delay, about
64uS or one UK line period. Luminance delay lines to compensate for the
difference in bandwidth and hence signal transmission speed between the
luminance and chrominance amplifiers, were only a few tens on nS I seem to
recall, and were made from very fine wire wound on a hollow glass rod. Could
those tracks that we're looking at on the photo be any kind of RFID receiver
or responder antennas for automatic inventory or production line process
control purposes ?

Arfa

On 15/12/2012 13:59, Arfa Daily wrote:


Don't reckon you'd get much delay down a length of track like that,
would you ?

I've seen delay lines on tracks - funny zigzag patterns - but these were
in logic analysers, and were designed to keep the tracks from all the
probes the same length.

Andy

En el artículo , Andy
Champ escribió:

I've seen delay lines on tracks - funny zigzag patterns - but these were
in logic analysers, and were designed to keep the tracks from all the
probes the same length.

Yes, I've seen similar things on PC motherboards, where it's important
to keep the tracks between the CPU/memory controller and the memory
slots the same length.

That isn't what the OP photo shows, though. I certainly agree with
those that think it's an antenna of some kind. Figuring out what "SIM1
and "SIM2" mean might be a clue.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

In article , Mike Tomlinson
scribeth thus
En el artículo , Andy
Champ escribió:

I've seen delay lines on tracks - funny zigzag patterns - but these were
in logic analysers, and were designed to keep the tracks from all the
probes the same length.

Yes, I've seen similar things on PC motherboards, where it's important
to keep the tracks between the CPU/memory controller and the memory
slots the same length.

That isn't what the OP photo shows, though. I certainly agree with
those that think it's an antenna of some kind. Figuring out what "SIM1
and "SIM2" mean might be a clue.


Well is the just simply a PC motherboard?.

If so then very unlikely thats a anything to do with SIM cards, it
prolly means something completely different;!.

It might be that the designer thought it looked nice, and it broke up a
bit of the board that had no copper tracks on...
--
Tony Sayer

On 16/12/2012 10:16, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Mike Tomlinson
scribeth thus
En el artículo , Andy
Champ escribió:

I've seen delay lines on tracks - funny zigzag patterns - but these were
in logic analysers, and were designed to keep the tracks from all the
probes the same length.

Yes, I've seen similar things on PC motherboards, where it's important
to keep the tracks between the CPU/memory controller and the memory
slots the same length.

That isn't what the OP photo shows, though. I certainly agree with
those that think it's an antenna of some kind. Figuring out what "SIM1
and "SIM2" mean might be a clue.


Well is the just simply a PC motherboard?.

If so then very unlikely thats a anything to do with SIM cards, it
prolly means something completely different;!.

It might be that the designer thought it looked nice, and it broke up a
bit of the board that had no copper tracks on...


MSI Z68A-G43(G3) desktop motherboard

http://www.techiehq.net/pc-hardware/...ard-87549.html

--
Rod