Hi All,

After having a fixed swan nect type towbar on my car for 10 years or
so, i've just discovered it's limitations !:=((

What I would like to do (once having checked noseweight restrictions)
is to mount a cycle carrier on the towbar/ball, AND tow my trailer.
Unfortunately, the only way I can see to do this is with a behind the
ball type cycle carrier which requires a traditional flange type
towball mount.

I can see some converters on the market, but all these seem to do is
clamp arond the towball to allow you attach an accessory, but not to
also attach o tow ball so as to be able to tow the trailer
simultaneosly.

The current towball is basically a ball on the end of a bar which goes
back to wards the front of the car and is then secured to the towbar
chassis gubbins by two left/right bolts.

Is this the standard arengement, and if so does anyone sell a
replacement for this part which instead of ending in a ball ends in a
flangy wangy to which a standard two bolt towball (and cycle carrier)
would fit?

If not, any recommendations for how to construct such a thing (or in
my case, have a local metal fabricator construct one)?

Could you chop the existing towball off and weld a flange on? Or
would such a weld not stand up to the sheer forces involved?

I suppose one option is to hunt around for a second hand flange type
towbar for the car and swap it over, but i'd rather not go that route
if I can avoid it.

TIA

Chris

On 17/08/2012 10:52, wrote:
Hi All,

After having a fixed swan nect type towbar on my car for 10 years or
so, i've just discovered it's limitations !:=((

What I would like to do (once having checked noseweight restrictions)
is to mount a cycle carrier on the towbar/ball, AND tow my trailer.
Unfortunately, the only way I can see to do this is with a behind the
ball type cycle carrier which requires a traditional flange type
towball mount.

I can see some converters on the market, but all these seem to do is
clamp arond the towball to allow you attach an accessory, but not to
also attach o tow ball so as to be able to tow the trailer
simultaneosly.

The current towball is basically a ball on the end of a bar which goes
back to wards the front of the car and is then secured to the towbar
chassis gubbins by two left/right bolts.

Is this the standard arengement, and if so does anyone sell a
replacement for this part which instead of ending in a ball ends in a
flangy wangy to which a standard two bolt towball (and cycle carrier)
would fit?

If not, any recommendations for how to construct such a thing (or in
my case, have a local metal fabricator construct one)?

Could you chop the existing towball off and weld a flange on? Or
would such a weld not stand up to the sheer forces involved?

I suppose one option is to hunt around for a second hand flange type
towbar for the car and swap it over, but i'd rather not go that route
if I can avoid it.

TIA

Chris


There are other forms of cycle carrier which don't use a towball, but
attach to rear doors etc.

Why couldn't you use one of these?

wrote:
Hi All,

After having a fixed swan nect type towbar on my car for 10 years or
so, i've just discovered it's limitations !:=((

What I would like to do (once having checked noseweight restrictions)
is to mount a cycle carrier on the towbar/ball, AND tow my trailer.
Unfortunately, the only way I can see to do this is with a behind the
ball type cycle carrier which requires a traditional flange type
towball mount.

I can see some converters on the market, but all these seem to do is
clamp arond the towball to allow you attach an accessory, but not to
also attach o tow ball so as to be able to tow the trailer
simultaneosly.

The current towball is basically a ball on the end of a bar which goes
back to wards the front of the car and is then secured to the towbar
chassis gubbins by two left/right bolts.

Is this the standard arengement, and if so does anyone sell a
replacement for this part which instead of ending in a ball ends in a
flangy wangy to which a standard two bolt towball (and cycle carrier)
would fit?

If not, any recommendations for how to construct such a thing (or in
my case, have a local metal fabricator construct one)?

Could you chop the existing towball off and weld a flange on? Or
would such a weld not stand up to the sheer forces involved?

I suppose one option is to hunt around for a second hand flange type
towbar for the car and swap it over, but i'd rather not go that route
if I can avoid it.

I think conveting the towbar will be out of the question and that if you
want a flange type ball, you'll have to replace the towbar.

That said, it looks like you can get a carrier for your existing bar that
will still allow towing.

http://www.maxxraxx.co.uk/help/swan_neck.html

Tim

On 17/08/2012 11:14, Tim+ wrote:
wrote:
Hi All,

After having a fixed swan nect type towbar on my car for 10 years or
so, i've just discovered it's limitations !:=((

What I would like to do (once having checked noseweight restrictions)
is to mount a cycle carrier on the towbar/ball, AND tow my trailer.
Unfortunately, the only way I can see to do this is with a behind the
ball type cycle carrier which requires a traditional flange type
towball mount.

I can see some converters on the market, but all these seem to do is
clamp arond the towball to allow you attach an accessory, but not to
also attach o tow ball so as to be able to tow the trailer
simultaneosly.

The current towball is basically a ball on the end of a bar which goes
back to wards the front of the car and is then secured to the towbar
chassis gubbins by two left/right bolts.

Is this the standard arengement, and if so does anyone sell a
replacement for this part which instead of ending in a ball ends in a
flangy wangy to which a standard two bolt towball (and cycle carrier)
would fit?

If not, any recommendations for how to construct such a thing (or in
my case, have a local metal fabricator construct one)?

Could you chop the existing towball off and weld a flange on? Or
would such a weld not stand up to the sheer forces involved?

I suppose one option is to hunt around for a second hand flange type
towbar for the car and swap it over, but i'd rather not go that route
if I can avoid it.

I think conveting the towbar will be out of the question and that if you
want a flange type ball, you'll have to replace the towbar.

That said, it looks like you can get a carrier for your existing bar
that will still allow towing.

http://www.maxxraxx.co.uk/help/swan_neck.html

Tim


That looks promising, and probably the best bet.

Whilst you may physically be able to cut the ball off a swan neck jobbie
and weld a flange on, it almost certainly wouldn't be legal - unless the
car was first registered before 1998. After that date, all towbars and
balls have to be type approved, having been subjected to rigorous tests.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

In article , Roger Mills wrote:
is to mount a cycle carrier on the towbar/ball, AND tow my trailer.
[...]
I think conveting the towbar will be out of the question and that if you
want a flange type ball, you'll have to replace the towbar.

That said, it looks like you can get a carrier for your existing bar
that will still allow towing.

http://www.maxxraxx.co.uk/help/swan_neck.html

That looks promising, and probably the best bet.

When I looked into the same issue, it looked like the MaxxRaxx or a
complete new towbar were the only options. Well, that, or make my own
adaptor of possibly dubious legality....

(So far, I've just not used the tow-bar mounted carrier that I had from
use on a previous car. The MaxxRaxx is a nice carrier, but
http://www.maxxraxx.co.uk/bike_racks...max2_swan.html
costs more than a flange towbar.

Note that actually using a carrier while towing may well restrict your
turning circle. I just wanted something I could use one or the other,
but without faffing about unbolting adaptors when I wanted to use the
trailer (the carrier I have has a mount that permanently fits onto a
flange towbar, putting the carrier onto that is then fairly trivial).)


Whilst you may physically be able to cut the ball off a swan neck jobbie
and weld a flange on, it almost certainly wouldn't be legal - unless the
car was first registered before 1998. After that date, all towbars and
balls have to be type approved, having been subjected to rigorous tests.

On mine (Nissan X-Trail) the swan neck bit is bolted to the main frame
that bolts onto the car, but the flange version uses a different frame,
so you still need to replace the whole thing.
(Or at least that's what the local Nissan dealer's parts department said -
Google suggests that for some towbars, it's purely that the type approval
label on the main frame would then be wrong even though it's actually the
same for both designs.)

On Aug 17, 3:30*pm, (Alan Braggins) wrote:
In article , Roger Mills wrote:
is to mount a cycle carrier on the towbar/ball, AND tow my trailer.
[...]
Snip
Thanks for all the replies so far I am really grateful.

I have looked at cycle carriers that attach to the rear window (and
indeed am going to try one next week. but most only go as far as 3
bikes and we really want to carry 4. also, you can't use the rear
wiper, also you have to remember not to use the rear wiper!, and they
are a bit of a faff to fit.

The max rax may not work with my particular bar, and it has to be
fitted it is also phenomeanally expensive.

I think the car is old enough to fall outside the 1998 rule, so
getting something modified or fabricated might be a possibility. I
have also found a post on a forum for Toyota Landcruisers which
suggests that at least at one time Toyota used to stock just the part
I am looking for (at least to replace the swan neck towball on a
Landcruiser).

If anyone has any other ideas or suggestions, please keep em comming.

Best regards

Chris

On 17/08/2012 16:18, wrote:
On Aug 17, 3:30 pm, (Alan Braggins) wrote:
In article , Roger Mills wrote:
is to mount a cycle carrier on the towbar/ball, AND tow my trailer.
[...]
Snip
Thanks for all the replies so far I am really grateful.

I have looked at cycle carriers that attach to the rear window (and
indeed am going to try one next week. but most only go as far as 3
bikes and we really want to carry 4. also, you can't use the rear
wiper, also you have to remember not to use the rear wiper!, and they
are a bit of a faff to fit.


Depending on your car you might be able to use the Hollywood F4 rack
that has a 4bike rating.


http://hollywoodracks.com/instructio...-UK-Europe.pdf

On 17/08/2012 17:45, OG wrote:
On 17/08/2012 16:18, wrote:
On Aug 17, 3:30 pm, (Alan Braggins) wrote:
In article , Roger Mills wrote:
is to mount a cycle carrier on the towbar/ball, AND tow my trailer.
[...]
Snip
Thanks for all the replies so far I am really grateful.

I have looked at cycle carriers that attach to the rear window (and
indeed am going to try one next week. but most only go as far as 3
bikes and we really want to carry 4. also, you can't use the rear
wiper, also you have to remember not to use the rear wiper!, and they
are a bit of a faff to fit.


Depending on your car you might be able to use the Hollywood F4 rack
that has a 4bike rating.


http://hollywoodracks.com/instructio...-UK-Europe.pdf

Seems designed for Estates/MPVs rather than Saloons.

On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 08:18:44 -0700, cpvh wrote:

On Aug 17, 3:30Â*pm, (Alan Braggins) wrote:
In article , Roger Mills wrote:
is to mount a cycle carrier on the towbar/ball, AND tow my trailer.
[...]
Snip
Thanks for all the replies so far I am really grateful.

I have looked at cycle carriers that attach to the rear window (and
indeed am going to try one next week. but most only go as far as 3
bikes and we really want to carry 4.

just remember to keep the noseweight of the trailer plus the weight of
the 4 bikes and the carrier below the limits set by either the car
manufacturer or the tow bar manufacturer (whichever is the lower)

David

On 17/08/2012 19:22, David P wrote:
On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 08:18:44 -0700, cpvh wrote:

On Aug 17, 3:30 pm, (Alan Braggins) wrote:
In , Roger Mills wrote:
is to mount a cycle carrier on the towbar/ball, AND tow my trailer.
[...]
Snip
Thanks for all the replies so far I am really grateful.

I have looked at cycle carriers that attach to the rear window (and
indeed am going to try one next week. but most only go as far as 3
bikes and we really want to carry 4.

just remember to keep the noseweight of the trailer plus the weight of
the 4 bikes and the carrier below the limits set by either the car
manufacturer or the tow bar manufacturer (whichever is the lower)

David

I was going to say that, but the OP has indicated that his car pre-dates
the 1998 regulations - so that won't apply in his case.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

In article , Roger Mills wrote:
On 17/08/2012 19:22, David P wrote:
On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 08:18:44 -0700, cpvh wrote:
In , Roger Mills wrote:
is to mount a cycle carrier on the towbar/ball, AND tow my trailer.
[...]
Snip
Thanks for all the replies so far I am really grateful.

I have looked at cycle carriers that attach to the rear window (and
indeed am going to try one next week. but most only go as far as 3
bikes and we really want to carry 4.

just remember to keep the noseweight of the trailer plus the weight of
the 4 bikes and the carrier below the limits set by either the car
manufacturer or the tow bar manufacturer (whichever is the lower)

I was going to say that, but the OP has indicated that his car pre-dates
the 1998 regulations - so that won't apply in his case.

The regulations might not apply, but the laws of physics do, and
overloading a tow bar is still unwise.

On the other hand, he's also mentioned "Toyota Landcruiser" - I very
much doubt four bikes are going to be a problem for that....

On 17/08/2012 19:22, David P wrote:
On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 08:18:44 -0700, cpvh wrote:

On Aug 17, 3:30 pm, (Alan Braggins) wrote:
In article , Roger Mills wrote:
is to mount a cycle carrier on the towbar/ball, AND tow my trailer.
[...]
Snip
Thanks for all the replies so far I am really grateful.

I have looked at cycle carriers that attach to the rear window (and
indeed am going to try one next week. but most only go as far as 3
bikes and we really want to carry 4.

just remember to keep the noseweight of the trailer plus the weight of
the 4 bikes and the carrier below the limits set by either the car
manufacturer or the tow bar manufacturer (whichever is the lower)

And there lies the problem. 4 bikes is 50kg to start with, which leaves
nothing for the trailer on many.

Surely you would not have to replace all the tow bar assembly?
Couldn't you keep the metalwork under the car and just unbolt the swan
neck and fit the appropriate flanged tow bar in its place, presumably
via an extension piece onto the existing metalwork?

Fred wrote:

Surely you would not have to replace all the tow bar assembly?
Couldn't you keep the metalwork under the car and just unbolt the swan
neck and fit the appropriate flanged tow bar in its place, presumably
via an extension piece onto the existing metalwork?

That isn't how towbars are designed.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 08:08:41 +0100, Chris J Dixon
wrote:

That isn't how towbars are designed.

Sorry. I've never crawled under one to see.