"Curiosity is about twice as long and five times as heavy as NASA's two
previous Mars rovers, Spirit and Opportunity, and its plutonium-powered
nuclear battery will provide the mobile laboratory with about 2.7 kWh
per day, far in excess of the 1 kWh per day maximum of the earlier
solar-powered rovers. The nuclear battery is also much longer-lasting
than the solar power systems used by the previous missions, and is
expected to last through the rover's planned operations and beyond,
providing the potential for the mission to be extended."

--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
"Curiosity is about twice as long and five times as heavy as NASA's two
previous Mars rovers, Spirit and Opportunity, and its plutonium-powered
nuclear battery will provide the mobile laboratory with about 2.7 kWh
per day, far in excess of the 1 kWh per day maximum of the earlier
solar-powered rovers. The nuclear battery is also much longer-lasting
than the solar power systems used by the previous missions, and is
expected to last through the rover's planned operations and beyond,
providing the potential for the mission to be extended."

Yes but the sun is weak on Mars

Bill

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
"Curiosity is about twice as long and five times as heavy as NASA's two
previous Mars rovers, Spirit and Opportunity, and its plutonium-powered
nuclear battery will provide the mobile laboratory with about 2.7 kWh
per day, far in excess of the 1 kWh per day maximum of the earlier
solar-powered rovers. The nuclear battery is also much longer-lasting
than the solar power systems used by the previous missions, and is
expected to last through the rover's planned operations and beyond,
providing the potential for the mission to be extended."

Have you not heard of the greenpeace mars probe?

They're using windmills

--
geoff

On 06/08/2012 19:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
"Curiosity is about twice as long and five times as heavy as NASA's two
previous Mars rovers, Spirit and Opportunity, and its plutonium-powered
nuclear battery will provide the mobile laboratory with about 2.7 kWh
per day, far in excess of the 1 kWh per day maximum of the earlier
solar-powered rovers. The nuclear battery is also much longer-lasting
than the solar power systems used by the previous missions, and is
expected to last through the rover's planned operations and beyond,
providing the potential for the mission to be extended."


There's the beginings of life apparently on Mars. Well, they are looking
for it, and apart from hopeful dreams of finding tiny green aliens that
speak english the most probable find would be some very fragile micro
organism, or nothing.

Now wind the clock forward a million years or so. We here on earth will
have probably persished, but those organisms on mars may well develop
into self sustainable alien lifeforms. Tiny, maybe green, who knows?

However, somewhere in that distant future, some of them are going to
come across a decaying but still highly radioactive source and after the
visit suffer the indignity of being born with two heads and three arms.

Is this right? Do the aliens have rights not to have their cell
structures modified in that way? What if they discover time travel and
come back here to give us a telling off?

--
Not Me

Bill Wright wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
"Curiosity is about twice as long and five times as heavy as NASA's
two previous Mars rovers, Spirit and Opportunity, and its
plutonium-powered nuclear battery will provide the mobile laboratory
with about 2.7 kWh per day, far in excess of the 1 kWh per day maximum
of the earlier solar-powered rovers. The nuclear battery is also much
longer-lasting than the solar power systems used by the previous
missions, and is expected to last through the rover's planned
operations and beyond, providing the potential for the mission to be
extended."

Yes but the sun is weak on Mars

Excuses.

You'll be telling me next that harrys solar panels work brilliantly at
night....

Bill


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

geoff wrote:
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
"Curiosity is about twice as long and five times as heavy as NASA's
two previous Mars rovers, Spirit and Opportunity, and its
plutonium-powered nuclear battery will provide the mobile laboratory
with about 2.7 kWh per day, far in excess of the 1 kWh per day maximum
of the earlier solar-powered rovers. The nuclear battery is also much
longer-lasting than the solar power systems used by the previous
missions, and is expected to last through the rover's planned
operations and beyond, providing the potential for the mission to be
extended."

Have you not heard of the greenpeace mars probe?

They're using windmills

They work really well at 18000 mph in a vacuum


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

Adrian C wrote:
On 06/08/2012 19:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
"Curiosity is about twice as long and five times as heavy as NASA's two
previous Mars rovers, Spirit and Opportunity, and its plutonium-powered
nuclear battery will provide the mobile laboratory with about 2.7 kWh
per day, far in excess of the 1 kWh per day maximum of the earlier
solar-powered rovers. The nuclear battery is also much longer-lasting
than the solar power systems used by the previous missions, and is
expected to last through the rover's planned operations and beyond,
providing the potential for the mission to be extended."


There's the beginings of life apparently on Mars. Well, they are looking
for it, and apart from hopeful dreams of finding tiny green aliens that
speak english the most probable find would be some very fragile micro
organism, or nothing.

Now wind the clock forward a million years or so. We here on earth will
have probably persished, but those organisms on mars may well develop
into self sustainable alien lifeforms. Tiny, maybe green, who knows?

If they are Green they will never develop at all.

"Green philosophy: a philosophy of the super rich and massively carbon
footed that decries the super rich and massively carbon footed"


However, somewhere in that distant future, some of them are going to
come across a decaying but still highly radioactive source and after the
visit suffer the indignity of being born with two heads and three arms.


Well that's the fate waiting Greens of all sorts. I've gotta a potato
like that in the garden.

Is this right? Do the aliens have rights not to have their cell
structures modified in that way? What if they discover time travel and
come back here to give us a telling off?


They would already have done so.


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

Have you not heard of the greenpeace mars probe?

They're using windmills

They work really well at 18000 mph in a vacuum

Solar wind?

"Adrian C" wrote in message
...

8

There's the beginings of life apparently on Mars. Well, they are looking
for it, and apart from hopeful dreams of finding tiny green aliens that
speak english the most probable find would be some very fragile micro
organism, or nothing.

Now wind the clock forward a million years or so. We here on earth will
have probably persished, but those organisms on mars may well develop into
self sustainable alien lifeforms. Tiny, maybe green, who knows?

However, somewhere in that distant future, some of them are going to come
across a decaying but still highly radioactive source and after the visit
suffer the indignity of being born with two heads and three arms.

They will need the time machine to come back to now to find the highly
radioactive source as it will have decayed in a million years or so.


Is this right? Do the aliens have rights not to have their cell structures
modified in that way? What if they discover time travel and come back here
to give us a telling off?

Nobody will discover time travel, they would already have been here if they
did.

On Mon, 6 Aug 2012 20:35:35 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:



"Adrian C" wrote in message
...

8

There's the beginings of life apparently on Mars. Well, they are looking
for it, and apart from hopeful dreams of finding tiny green aliens that
speak english the most probable find would be some very fragile micro
organism, or nothing.

Now wind the clock forward a million years or so. We here on earth will
have probably persished, but those organisms on mars may well develop into
self sustainable alien lifeforms. Tiny, maybe green, who knows?

However, somewhere in that distant future, some of them are going to come
across a decaying but still highly radioactive source and after the visit
suffer the indignity of being born with two heads and three arms.

They will need the time machine to come back to now to find the highly
radioactive source as it will have decayed in a million years or so.


Is this right? Do the aliens have rights not to have their cell structures
modified in that way? What if they discover time travel and come back here
to give us a telling off?

Nobody will discover time travel, they would already have been here if they
did.
I think they are working on the assumption that any LGM they encounter
will be less advanced than us by about 30 years.

Why else would this piece of 1970s communications equipment be in the
JPL mission control this morning?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/g3zvt/7...ream/lightbox/

--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

"Graham." wrote in message
...

Why else would this piece of 1970s communications equipment be in the
JPL mission control this morning?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/g3zvt/7...ream/lightbox/

On a serious note, its because the VoIP stuff is cr@p and unreliable so they
have at least one phone that will work in an emergency.

On 06/08/2012 21:13, Graham. wrote:
Why else would this piece of 1970s communications equipment be in the
JPL mission control this morning?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/g3zvt/7...ream/lightbox/

Well at least it wasn't attached to an acoustic coupler...

On 06/08/2012 21:25, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
Adrian C wrote:



What organisms? And even if there were any, how're they gonna manage
with no liquid water?

James Lovelock had the right idea when he was asked by NASA to develop a
test for life, to be incorporated into the 1976 Viking Landers. He
pointed out that a characteristic of life is to keep its environment far
from chemical equilibrium. So, Earth's atmosphere contains large amounts
of oxygen, a very reactive gas. Mars' atmos contains none, and is mostly
CO2, indicative of an atmos *in* chemical equilibrium. QED there is no
life on Mars.

The NASA engineers whose careers depended on this investigation were not
best pleased with him.

Indeed, but to be fair to NASA now they are not looking for current
life, but for life 3.5 billion years ago when there were obviously large
rivers of water, if not seas, and temperatures must have been much more
amenable.

In article , dennis@home
scribeth thus


"Graham." wrote in message
.. .

Why else would this piece of 1970s communications equipment be in the
JPL mission control this morning?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/g3zvt/7...ream/lightbox/

On a serious note, its because the VoIP stuff is cr@p and unreliable so they
have at least one phone that will work in an emergency.


More Den bull .. we've gone VoIP on all lines and its fine, absolutely
excellent sound quality and much cheaper calls!...

Ever get around to the One or Two RCD answer;?..

--
Tony Sayer

Graham. wrote:
I think they are working on the assumption that any LGM they encounter
will be less advanced than us by about 30 years.

Why else would this piece of 1970s communications equipment be in the
JPL mission control this morning?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/g3zvt/7...ream/lightbox/

So ET can phone home?

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

newshound wrote:

to be fair to NASA now they are not looking for current
life, but for life 3.5 billion years ago

They're not even looking for extinct life this time, they're looking for
evidence that Mars was capable of having supported life ...

tony sayer wrote:

dennis@home scribeth thus

"Graham." wrote:

Why else would this piece of 1970s communications equipment be in the
JPL mission control this morning?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/g3zvt/7...ream/lightbox/

On a serious note, its because the VoIP stuff is cr@p and unreliable so they
have at least one phone that will work in an emergency.

More Den bull ..

Indeed, I'm aware of multiple emergency service control rooms that are
planning to take all their 999 calls as SIP on one of many VLANs over
gigabit Ethernet.

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , dennis@home
scribeth thus


"Graham." wrote in message
. ..

Why else would this piece of 1970s communications equipment be in the
JPL mission control this morning?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/g3zvt/7...ream/lightbox/

On a serious note, its because the VoIP stuff is cr@p and unreliable so
they
have at least one phone that will work in an emergency.


More Den bull .. we've gone VoIP on all lines and its fine, absolutely
excellent sound quality and much cheaper calls!...

Ever get around to the One or Two RCD answer;?..

Well given your stupidity on that issue I think I will consider your views
on VoIP as worthless.

On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 21:13:45 +0100, Graham. wrote:


I think they are working on the assumption that any LGM they encounter
will be less advanced than us by about 30 years.

Why else would this piece of 1970s communications equipment be in the
JPL mission control this morning?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/g3zvt/7...ream/lightbox/

Quite a number of years ago I visited "mission control" at the European
Space Agency centre at Darmstadt. The person who took me round (an
acquaintance who worked there) explained that almost everything in the
room was for show only. So the VIPs could be invited in and feel they were
privileged to be part of things - with the danger of someone hitting the
wrong button. The real equipment was in the room behind...

But I am not sure how many of ESA's missions would be exciting enough to
get many VIPs.

--
Rod

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
o.uk...
tony sayer wrote:

dennis@home scribeth thus

"Graham." wrote:

Why else would this piece of 1970s communications equipment be in the
JPL mission control this morning?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/g3zvt/7...ream/lightbox/

On a serious note, its because the VoIP stuff is cr@p and unreliable so
they
have at least one phone that will work in an emergency.

More Den bull ..

Indeed, I'm aware of multiple emergency service control rooms that are
planning to take all their 999 calls as SIP on one of many VLANs over
gigabit Ethernet.

Well I'm aware that BT CN21 uses VoIP too.
However its not the cr@p VoIP that you get from SIP servers.
Its based on the stuff I worked on.
If they go to SIP people will die.

You need rather a lot of stuff to keep working in an emergency when you are
using VoIP, far more than with the telephone system.

dennis@home wrote:

I'm aware that BT CN21 uses VoIP too.
However its not the cr@p VoIP that you get from SIP servers.
Its based on the stuff I worked on.

I though you worked for GPT/Plessey, not Huawei?

If they go to SIP people will die.

I raised my eyebrows and questioned whether delivery over an ISDN PRI
might be more prudent, this was raised with BT who stated they have more
faith in SIP delivery (over diverse 1GbE circuits) that ISDN

You need rather a lot of stuff to keep working in an emergency when you are
using VoIP, far more than with the telephone system.

Indeed.

In message , "dennis@home"
writes


"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , dennis@home
scribeth thus


"Graham." wrote in message
...

Why else would this piece of 1970s communications equipment be in the
JPL mission control this morning?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/g3zvt/7...ream/lightbox/

On a serious note, its because the VoIP stuff is cr@p and unreliable
so they
have at least one phone that will work in an emergency.


More Den bull .. we've gone VoIP on all lines and its fine, absolutely
excellent sound quality and much cheaper calls!...

Ever get around to the One or Two RCD answer;?..

Well given your stupidity on that issue I think I will consider your
views on VoIP as worthless.

So dense - either you are "sane" and the rest of the world (i.e.
uk.d-i-y) are stupid - you seem to have called most of the useful
contributors here that in your time

or ... you are the stupid one

seems like its you vs the world

How's the council job coming along?

Still no new broom?


--
geoff

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Yes but the sun is weak on Mars

Excuses.

You'll be telling me next that harrys solar panels work brilliantly at
night....

They're fine once the streetlights come on.

Bill

On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 22:23:34 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

newshound wrote:

to be fair to NASA now they are not looking for current
life, but for life 3.5 billion years ago

They're not even looking for extinct life this time, they're looking for
evidence that Mars was capable of having supported life ...

Is that life as "we" know it - water, oxygen, MacDonalds, Microsoft,
whatever?

Could there be an entirely different "Martian" form of life to our
"own" elemental structure? That's probably impossible to answer since
we can only make comparisons with what we can mess about with on
"Earth".

Or are we assuming that whatever exists is already represented on
Earth?

--
Frank Erskine

Graham. wrote:

Why else would this piece of 1970s communications equipment be in the
JPL mission control this morning?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/g3zvt/7...ream/lightbox/
It's propping the monitor up.

Bill

On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 21:13:45 +0100, Graham. wrote:
Why else would this piece of 1970s communications equipment be in the
JPL mission control this morning?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/g3zvt/7...ream/lightbox/

Backup, I'd assume - if it's running solely from the phone line then at
least it might be possible to get a call in/out even if network/power in
the room suddenly isn't available (which is most likely an extremely
remote possibility of course, but for the sake of having a phone and
having someone check it periodically to make sure it's operational, it's
not a big deal)

dennis@home wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

Have you not heard of the greenpeace mars probe?

They're using windmills

They work really well at 18000 mph in a vacuum

Solar wind?
Greenfart

--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

In article , dennis@home
scribeth thus


"Andy Burns" wrote in message
news:CdadnSZMEJvuqr3NnZ2dnUVZ8midnZ2d@brightview. co.uk...
tony sayer wrote:

dennis@home scribeth thus

"Graham." wrote:

Why else would this piece of 1970s communications equipment be in the
JPL mission control this morning?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/g3zvt/7...ream/lightbox/

On a serious note, its because the VoIP stuff is cr@p and unreliable so
they
have at least one phone that will work in an emergency.

More Den bull ..

Indeed, I'm aware of multiple emergency service control rooms that are
planning to take all their 999 calls as SIP on one of many VLANs over
gigabit Ethernet.

Well I'm aware that BT CN21 uses VoIP too.
However its not the cr@p VoIP that you get from SIP servers.
Its based on the stuff I worked on.
If they go to SIP people will die.


Why?..

You need rather a lot of stuff to keep working in an emergency when you are
using VoIP, far more than with the telephone system.


And Why again?..
--
Tony Sayer

In article , dennis@home
scribeth thus


"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , dennis@home
scribeth thus


"Graham." wrote in message
...

Why else would this piece of 1970s communications equipment be in the
JPL mission control this morning?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/g3zvt/7...ream/lightbox/

On a serious note, its because the VoIP stuff is cr@p and unreliable so
they
have at least one phone that will work in an emergency.


More Den bull .. we've gone VoIP on all lines and its fine, absolutely
excellent sound quality and much cheaper calls!...

Ever get around to the One or Two RCD answer;?..

Well given your stupidity on that issue I think I will consider your views
on VoIP as worthless.


Can't answer a simple question truthfully then den?.

Is it that difficult for you ?.....
--
Tony Sayer

newshound wrote:
On 06/08/2012 21:25, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
Adrian C wrote:



What organisms? And even if there were any, how're they gonna manage
with no liquid water?

James Lovelock had the right idea when he was asked by NASA to develop a
test for life, to be incorporated into the 1976 Viking Landers. He
pointed out that a characteristic of life is to keep its environment far
from chemical equilibrium. So, Earth's atmosphere contains large amounts
of oxygen, a very reactive gas. Mars' atmos contains none, and is mostly
CO2, indicative of an atmos *in* chemical equilibrium. QED there is no
life on Mars.

The NASA engineers whose careers depended on this investigation were not
best pleased with him.

Indeed, but to be fair to NASA now they are not looking for current
life, but for life 3.5 billion years ago when there were obviously large
rivers of water, if not seas, and temperatures must have been much more
amenable.

yeah, and they all drove 4x4s and ruined their planet and then emigrated
to earth. David Icke knows this compeletely,.

--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

In article , Adrian C wrote:
On 06/08/2012 19:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
"Curiosity is about twice as long and five times as heavy as NASA's two
previous Mars rovers, Spirit and Opportunity, and its plutonium-powered
nuclear battery will provide the mobile laboratory with about 2.7 kWh
per day, far in excess of the 1 kWh per day maximum of the earlier
solar-powered rovers. The nuclear battery is also much longer-lasting
than the solar power systems used by the previous missions, and is
expected to last through the rover's planned operations and beyond,
providing the potential for the mission to be extended."

There's the beginings of life apparently on Mars. Well, they are looking
for it, and apart from hopeful dreams of finding tiny green aliens that
speak english the most probable find would be some very fragile micro
organism, or nothing.

No, they are looking for the _remnants_ of (fragile microscopic) life,
left over from when Mars had liquid water on its surface. Mars cooled and
became habitable (for "life as we know it") before Earth.

On 06/08/2012 19:59, Bill Wright wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
"Curiosity is about twice as long and five times as heavy as NASA's
two previous Mars rovers, Spirit and Opportunity, and its
plutonium-powered nuclear battery will provide the mobile laboratory
with about 2.7 kWh per day, far in excess of the 1 kWh per day maximum
of the earlier solar-powered rovers. The nuclear battery is also much
longer-lasting than the solar power systems used by the previous
missions, and is expected to last through the rover's planned
operations and beyond, providing the potential for the mission to be
extended."

Yes but the sun is weak on Mars

Can't say its exactly dazzling here ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 06/08/2012 20:12, geoff wrote:
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
"Curiosity is about twice as long and five times as heavy as NASA's
two previous Mars rovers, Spirit and Opportunity, and its
plutonium-powered nuclear battery will provide the mobile laboratory
with about 2.7 kWh per day, far in excess of the 1 kWh per day maximum
of the earlier solar-powered rovers. The nuclear battery is also much
longer-lasting than the solar power systems used by the previous
missions, and is expected to last through the rover's planned
operations and beyond, providing the potential for the mission to be
extended."

Have you not heard of the greenpeace mars probe?

They're using windmills

Will that give them the power to remove the wrapper?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Adrian C" wrote in message
...
On 06/08/2012 19:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
"Curiosity is about twice as long and five times as heavy as NASA's two
previous Mars rovers, Spirit and Opportunity, and its plutonium-powered
nuclear battery will provide the mobile laboratory with about 2.7 kWh
per day, far in excess of the 1 kWh per day maximum of the earlier
solar-powered rovers. The nuclear battery is also much longer-lasting
than the solar power systems used by the previous missions, and is
expected to last through the rover's planned operations and beyond,
providing the potential for the mission to be extended."


There's the beginings of life apparently on Mars. Well, they are looking
for it, and apart from hopeful dreams of finding tiny green aliens that
speak english the most probable find would be some very fragile micro
organism, or nothing.

Now wind the clock forward a million years or so. We here on earth will
have probably persished, but those organisms on mars may well develop into
self sustainable alien lifeforms. Tiny, maybe green, who knows?

However, somewhere in that distant future, some of them are going to come
across a decaying but still highly radioactive source and after the visit
suffer the indignity of being born with two heads and three arms.

Is this right? Do the aliens have rights not to have their cell structures
modified in that way? What if they discover time travel and come back here
to give us a telling off?

--
Not Me

You been watching too much Star Trek.

The problem before was that due to seasons on Mars, the winter had reduced
usage of the rovers because of the sun angle and dust problems.
The thing to bear in mind here is that the original rovers had a 90 day
life expectancy, nobody expected them to last as long as they did.. ie one
is still working now. as the life of this one is projected to be 2 years,
they needed to find a way to allow it to be independent of the seasons and
thus it brought its power with it from Earth.
Most long duration deep space missions have used RTG systems, a kind of
thermocouple generator using the heat from decaying plutonium.
Brian

--
--
From the sofa of Brian Gaff -

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
"Curiosity is about twice as long and five times as heavy as NASA's two
previous Mars rovers, Spirit and Opportunity, and its plutonium-powered
nuclear battery will provide the mobile laboratory with about 2.7 kWh per
day, far in excess of the 1 kWh per day maximum of the earlier
solar-powered rovers. The nuclear battery is also much longer-lasting than
the solar power systems used by the previous missions, and is expected to
last through the rover's planned operations and beyond, providing the
potential for the mission to be extended."

--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:

I'm aware that BT CN21 uses VoIP too.
However its not the cr@p VoIP that you get from SIP servers.
Its based on the stuff I worked on.

I though you worked for GPT/Plessey, not Huawei?

21CN is a direct rip off of what was submitted by Marconi, they wanted
Marconi equipment but were demanding Huawei prices and we couldn't match
that.
I actually built a demonstrator of most of the 21CN network to show that it
would work.


If they go to SIP people will die.

I raised my eyebrows and questioned whether delivery over an ISDN PRI
might be more prudent, this was raised with BT who stated they have more
faith in SIP delivery (over diverse 1GbE circuits) that ISDN

You need rather a lot of stuff to keep working in an emergency when you
are
using VoIP, far more than with the telephone system.

Indeed.

Adrian C wrote:
On 06/08/2012 19:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
"Curiosity is about twice as long and five times as heavy as NASA's two
previous Mars rovers, Spirit and Opportunity, and its plutonium-powered
nuclear battery will provide the mobile laboratory with about 2.7 kWh
per day, far in excess of the 1 kWh per day maximum of the earlier
solar-powered rovers. The nuclear battery is also much longer-lasting
than the solar power systems used by the previous missions, and is
expected to last through the rover's planned operations and beyond,
providing the potential for the mission to be extended."


There's the beginings of life apparently on Mars. Well, they are looking
for it, and apart from hopeful dreams of finding tiny green aliens that
speak english the most probable find would be some very fragile micro
organism, or nothing.

Now wind the clock forward a million years or so. We here on earth will
have probably persished, but those organisms on mars may well develop
into self sustainable alien lifeforms. Tiny, maybe green, who knows?

However, somewhere in that distant future, some of them are going to
come across a decaying but still highly radioactive source and after the
visit suffer the indignity of being born with two heads and three arms.

Is this right? Do the aliens have rights not to have their cell
structures modified in that way? What if they discover time travel and
come back here to give us a telling off?



What makes you think that the aliens are affected adversely by
radioactivity, they might thrive on the stuff.

Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
Adrian C wrote:

On 06/08/2012 19:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
"Curiosity is about twice as long and five times as heavy as NASA's two
previous Mars rovers, Spirit and Opportunity, and its plutonium-powered
nuclear battery will provide the mobile laboratory with about 2.7 kWh
per day, far in excess of the 1 kWh per day maximum of the earlier
solar-powered rovers. The nuclear battery is also much longer-lasting
than the solar power systems used by the previous missions, and is
expected to last through the rover's planned operations and beyond,
providing the potential for the mission to be extended."


There's the beginings of life apparently on Mars.

What gives you that idea?

Well, they are looking for it, and apart from hopeful dreams of
finding tiny green aliens that speak english the most probable find
would be some very fragile micro organism, or nothing.

Now wind the clock forward a million years or so. We here on earth
will have probably persished, but those organisms on mars may well
develop into self sustainable alien lifeforms. Tiny, maybe green, who
knows?

What organisms? And even if there were any, how're they gonna manage
with no liquid water?

Why would they need water? because you do?

James Lovelock had the right idea when he was asked by NASA to develop a
test for life, to be incorporated into the 1976 Viking Landers. He
pointed out that a characteristic of life is to keep its environment far
from chemical equilibrium. So, Earth's atmosphere contains large amounts
of oxygen, a very reactive gas. Mars' atmos contains none, and is mostly
CO2, indicative of an atmos *in* chemical equilibrium. QED there is no
life on Mars.

The NASA engineers whose careers depended on this investigation were not
best pleased with him.

On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 22:18:14 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

In article , dennis@home
scribeth thus


"Graham." wrote in message
. ..

Why else would this piece of 1970s communications equipment be in the
JPL mission control this morning?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/g3zvt/7...ream/lightbox/

On a serious note, its because the VoIP stuff is cr@p and unreliable so
they have at least one phone that will work in an emergency.


More Den bull .. we've gone VoIP on all lines and its fine, absolutely
excellent sound quality and much cheaper calls!...

Ever get around to the One or Two RCD answer;?..

I was lumbered with a VOIP (Sipgate) phone for work, and thought it was
crap - poor audio quality, and more annoying dropped calls.

A bit of RTFM and I punched a few holes in my router firewall - works
great now.

On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 23:25:10 +0100, Frank Erskine wrote:

On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 22:23:34 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

newshound wrote:

to be fair to NASA now they are not looking for current life, but for
life 3.5 billion years ago

They're not even looking for extinct life this time, they're looking for
evidence that Mars was capable of having supported life ...

Is that life as "we" know it - water, oxygen, MacDonalds, Microsoft,
whatever?

Could there be an entirely different "Martian" form of life to our "own"
elemental structure? That's probably impossible to answer since we can
only make comparisons with what we can mess about with on "Earth".

Or are we assuming that whatever exists is already represented on Earth?

I think the only presumption is that it will be carbon-based.