Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Oone of the (cast iron, allegedly) pan stands (see
http://www.3pinsappliance.com/cgi-bi...cgi?prodID=402)
slipped off our gas hob when I was cooking too hastily the other day,
and landed on the floor. Yes, it was a cushioned lino floor, but still
the pan stand cracked and broke into two!

18 months after the purchase date, of course.

When I submitted an on-line request to Whirlpool I got an email reply
two days later reminding me that there's a 1yr warranty and saying that
if it's out of warranty I should phone such and such to order a
replacement.

The question is, if a metal component falls on a cushioned lino floor
and breaks, was it ever fit for purpose?

Does anyone think I can whinge more about this and get any better results?

Michael

On 04/07/2012 09:36, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Oone of the (cast iron, allegedly) pan stands (see
http://www.3pinsappliance.com/cgi-bi...cgi?prodID=402)
slipped off our gas hob when I was cooking too hastily the other day,
and landed on the floor. Yes, it was a cushioned lino floor, but still
the pan stand cracked and broke into two!



****ing hell, one website I've found suggests that a replacement pan
stand costs £50.99.

In other words, replacing all four pan stands would cost 58% of the
original purchase price.

What does the law say exactly about manufacturing faults being covered
for 6 years after purchase? Is a bit of cast iron that can't withstand a
drop onto a cushioned lino floor manufactured properly?

Michael

On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had broken.
See the 'Casting Question' thread on here a week or two back.
Ductile cast iron is less brittle. It was invented about 1949 but costs more than the grey variety.

On 04/07/2012 09:48, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron broke,
but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design to
withstand a fall from its intended installation position (kitchen
surface height) to the floor.

I'm going to phone Comet (the retailer)

Michael

On 04/07/2012 09:48, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had broken.
See the 'Casting Question' thread on here a week or two back.
Ductile cast iron is less brittle. It was invented about 1949 but costs more than the grey variety.

A skilled TIG welder may be able to fix it for you (they repaired one
for me years ago, but admittedly I don't know if it was grey or ductile)

On Wed, 04 Jul 2012 10:21:39 +0100, newshound wrote:

A skilled TIG welder may be able to fix it for you (they repaired one
for me years ago, but admittedly I don't know if it was grey or
ductile)

Or check out the accidental damage section (and the excess...) of your
contents insurance.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:57:35 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron broke,
but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design to
withstand a fall from its intended installation position (kitchen
surface height) to the floor.

Cast iron is brittle, almost as brittle as glass in most cases, possibly more brittle. They are flakes of graphite and slag inclusions in it, that is what makes it brittle. They're sand cast in some Asian sweat shop foundry in a coke fired furnace.

There's no point in getting the hump with me. You bought a cast iron kitchen implement, you dropped it, you broke it. Would you be similarly wibbling if you had dropped a glass oven dish or a porcelain plate? They're brittle too.

You seem to have misinterpreted the 'metal' or 'cast iron' as being unbreakable; I see 'cast iron' and interpret the label as 'brittle ****e'. You've got a cast iron guarantee, best of luck with your claim.

On 04/07/2012 09:36, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Oone of the (cast iron, allegedly) pan stands (see
http://www.3pinsappliance.com/cgi-bi...cgi?prodID=402)
slipped off our gas hob when I was cooking too hastily the other day,
and landed on the floor. Yes, it was a cushioned lino floor, but still
the pan stand cracked and broke into two!

I don't think there is much doubt now that it was cast iron...
Cast iron is very brittle and tends to do that when shocked by dropping.

18 months after the purchase date, of course.

When I submitted an on-line request to Whirlpool I got an email reply
two days later reminding me that there's a 1yr warranty and saying that
if it's out of warranty I should phone such and such to order a
replacement.

The question is, if a metal component falls on a cushioned lino floor
and breaks, was it ever fit for purpose?

Yes. You were careless and dropped it - end story.

Does anyone think I can whinge more about this and get any better results?

Michael

No. (But I expect someone will though - you obviously do)

Nobody takes any responsibility for their own actions these days

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 04/07/2012 09:57, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:48, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had
broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron broke,
but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design to
withstand a fall from its intended installation position (kitchen
surface height) to the floor.

To be fair, it was designed to stand a pan on, not to be dropped.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 04/07/2012 11:20, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:57:35 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick
wrote:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it
had broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron
broke, but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design
to withstand a fall from its intended installation position
(kitchen surface height) to the floor.

Cast iron is brittle, almost as brittle as glass in most cases,
possibly more brittle. They are flakes of graphite and slag
inclusions in it, that is what makes it brittle. They're sand cast in
some Asian sweat shop foundry in a coke fired furnace.

There's no point in getting the hump with me.

Why do you think I was getting the hump with you? I was merely saying
that the question of cast iron's brittleness isn't the important issue -
it's whether the damn thing should be designed and made with such a
brittle metal in the first place given that it's a detachable (and
droppable) part of the hob.

Michael

On 04/07/2012 11:31, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:57, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:48, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had
broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron broke,
but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design to
withstand a fall from its intended installation position (kitchen
surface height) to the floor.

To be fair, it was designed to stand a pan on, not to be dropped.

My TV remote conrol is designed to control a TV, but it clearly
withstands being dropped on the floor. Many times. It wasn't made with a
plastic casing that was brittle.

Michael

On Wed, 04 Jul 2012 09:46:29 +0100, Michael Kilpatrick
wrote:

On 04/07/2012 09:36, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Oone of the (cast iron, allegedly) pan stands (see
http://www.3pinsappliance.com/cgi-bi...cgi?prodID=402)
slipped off our gas hob when I was cooking too hastily the other day,
and landed on the floor. Yes, it was a cushioned lino floor, but still
the pan stand cracked and broke into two!

****ing hell, one website I've found suggests that a replacement pan
stand costs £50.99.

In other words, replacing all four pan stands would cost 58% of the
original purchase price.

What does the law say exactly about manufacturing faults being covered
for 6 years after purchase? Is a bit of cast iron that can't withstand a
drop onto a cushioned lino floor manufactured properly?

To claim under the Sale of Goods Act (from the retailer not the
manufacturer) you would have to prove that is had a defect at the time
of purchase. Since you have dropped it they would claim misuse and I
very much doubt you would win a court case.

Put this one down to experience.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 11:33:03 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:

Why do you think I was getting the hump with you? I was merely saying
that the question of cast iron's brittleness isn't the important issue -
it's whether the damn thing should be designed and made with such a
brittle metal in the first place given that it's a detachable (and
droppable) part of the hob.

Your previous post read as being a bit brusque to me, i.e.,
It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron broke,


I just happen to know that the grey stuff is brittle, mostly due to a lot of years in building services engineering and previous encounters with shattered gutters, rain water pipes, 1880s heating mains etc.. I also just happen to know that a cast iron manhole cover will not support the front wheel of a Renault estate car. **** happens; it very often happens in a cast iron S&V pipe.

However, I wouldn't expect Mr or Mrs Average to know much about the properties of the cast iron cookware she/he buys, so it's possible you might be able to claim on the basis that it should be expected to have lasted longer and/or be plastered in 'Fragile' stickers. 'Cast Iron' construction is regarded as a asset and charged for accordingly; see 'Le Creuset' cookware.

The reality is that casting iron is often a very low tech process. One of the model engineering books I had when I was young had details of sand-casting your own castings for steam engines with a home-made back-yard furnace..

On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:57:35 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:48, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron broke,
but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design to
withstand a fall from its intended installation position (kitchen
surface height) to the floor.

I'm going to phone Comet (the retailer)

Michael

I woinder if teh EU sales act or whatever can help, I've heard Apple now have to offer a two year wattenrty on their computers for people in the EU rather than 1 year, not sure why though (leggaly) they have to abide bthe EU 'standards'

Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 04/07/2012 11:31, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:57, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:48, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick
wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty
is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it
had broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron
broke, but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a
design to withstand a fall from its intended installation
position (kitchen surface height) to the floor.

To be fair, it was designed to stand a pan on, not to be dropped.

My TV remote conrol is designed to control a TV, but it clearly
withstands being dropped on the floor. Many times. It wasn't made
with a plastic casing that was brittle.

My TV remote control failed after I had shoved it up my girlfriends ****.


TV remotes are designed to change TV channels and not to be dropped on the
floor or shoved up fannys.

You broke it. End of story.



--
Adam

Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:48, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick
wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had
broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron
broke, but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design to
withstand a fall from its intended installation position (kitchen
surface height) to the floor.

I'm going to phone Comet (the retailer)

Good idea, I'll phone Osram - those ****ing bulbs they make can't even
withstand a fall from ceiling height without shattering into a million bits.

whisky-dave wrote
Michael Kilpatrick wrote
Onetap wrote
Michael Kilpatrick wrote

Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had
broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron broke,
but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design to
withstand a fall from its intended installation position (kitchen
surface height) to the floor.

I'm going to phone Comet (the retailer)

I woinder if teh EU sales act or whatever can help, I've heard Apple now
have
to offer a two year wattenrty on their computers for people in the EU
rather
than 1 year, not sure why though (leggaly) they have to abide bthe EU
'standards'

Because the EU controls sales in the EU.

But I doubt that the EU sales act actually says that anything glass is
covered if its dropped in 2 years from purchase and its very arguable
whether grey cast iron is any different in that regard.

On Jul 4, 11:40*am, Michael Kilpatrick
wrote:
On 04/07/2012 11:31, The Medway Handyman wrote:

On 04/07/2012 09:57, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:48, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had
broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron broke,
but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design to
withstand a fall from its intended installation position (kitchen
surface height) to the floor.

To be fair, it was designed to stand a pan on, not to be dropped.

My TV remote conrol is designed to control a TV, but it clearly
withstands being dropped on the floor. Many times. It wasn't made with a
plastic casing that was brittle.

Michael

You don't expect Denby to guarantee all their china against being
dropped.

You dropped it, get over it.

MBQ

On Jul 4, 4:42*pm, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:57:35 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:48, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron broke,
but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design to
withstand a fall from its intended installation position (kitchen
surface height) to the floor.

I'm going to phone Comet (the retailer)

Michael

I woinder if teh EU sales act or whatever can help, I've heard Apple now have to offer a two year wattenrty on their computers for people in the EU rather than 1 year, not sure why though (leggaly) they have to abide bthe EU 'standards'

I believe the two year period in the rest of the EU is similar to the
6 year period under the Sale Of Goods Act in the UK.

MBQ

On Thu, 5 Jul 2012 02:21:18 -0700 (PDT), "Man at B&Q"
wrote:

On Jul 4, 4:42*pm, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:57:35 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:48, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron broke,
but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design to
withstand a fall from its intended installation position (kitchen
surface height) to the floor.

I'm going to phone Comet (the retailer)

Michael

I woinder if teh EU sales act or whatever can help, I've heard Apple now
have to offer a two year wattenrty on their computers for people in the EU
rather than 1 year, not sure why though (leggaly) they have to abide bthe
EU 'standards'

I believe the two year period in the rest of the EU is similar to the
6 year period under the Sale Of Goods Act in the UK.

IIRC the EU are trying to get manufacturers to offer 2 year warranties
on everything. I'm not sure which rule takes precedence.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

On Jul 5, 10:27*am, Mark
wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jul 2012 02:21:18 -0700 (PDT), "Man at B&Q"









wrote:
On Jul 4, 4:42*pm, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:57:35 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:48, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron broke,
but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design to
withstand a fall from its intended installation position (kitchen
surface height) to the floor.

I'm going to phone Comet (the retailer)

Michael

I woinder if teh EU sales act or whatever can help, I've heard Apple now
have to offer a two year wattenrty on their computers for people in the EU
rather than 1 year, not sure why though (leggaly) they have to abide bthe
EU 'standards'

I believe the two year period in the rest of the EU is similar to the
6 year period under the Sale Of Goods Act in the UK.

IIRC the EU are trying to get manufacturers to offer 2 year warranties
on everything. *I'm not sure which rule takes precedence.

Yes, but not in the UK. Following the EU would be a retrograde step
for UK consumers, due to the protection offered by the sale of goods
act.

In the UK, claims are, in any case, against the retailer not the
manufacturer.

MBQ

On Thu, 5 Jul 2012 03:06:11 -0700 (PDT), "Man at B&Q"
wrote:

On Jul 5, 10:27*am, Mark
wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jul 2012 02:21:18 -0700 (PDT), "Man at B&Q"
wrote:
On Jul 4, 4:42*pm, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:57:35 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:48, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron broke,
but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design to
withstand a fall from its intended installation position (kitchen
surface height) to the floor.

I'm going to phone Comet (the retailer)

Michael

I woinder if teh EU sales act or whatever can help, I've heard Apple now
have to offer a two year wattenrty on their computers for people in the EU
rather than 1 year, not sure why though (leggaly) they have to abide bthe
EU 'standards'

I believe the two year period in the rest of the EU is similar to the
6 year period under the Sale Of Goods Act in the UK.

IIRC the EU are trying to get manufacturers to offer 2 year warranties
on everything. *I'm not sure which rule takes precedence.

Yes, but not in the UK. Following the EU would be a retrograde step
for UK consumers, due to the protection offered by the sale of goods
act.

Not in every way. AFAIK it's not up to the consumer to prove that
there was an inherent fault after 6 months (with the EU rules).

In the UK, claims are, in any case, against the retailer not the
manufacturer.

SoGA claims are. Warranty claims are not.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:21:56 PM UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
whisky-dave wrote
Michael Kilpatrick wrote
Onetap wrote
Michael Kilpatrick wrote

Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had
broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron broke,
but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design to
withstand a fall from its intended installation position (kitchen
surface height) to the floor.

I'm going to phone Comet (the retailer)

I woinder if teh EU sales act or whatever can help, I've heard Apple now
have
to offer a two year wattenrty on their computers for people in the EU
rather
than 1 year, not sure why though (leggaly) they have to abide bthe EU
'standards'

Because the EU controls sales in the EU.

But I doubt that the EU sales act actually says that anything glass is
covered if its dropped in 2 years from purchase and its very arguable
whether grey cast iron is any different in that regard.

It's all about fit for purpose, whatever that might mean.
I'd have thought cast iron saucepans could be dropped on the floor,
but then I would buy cast ironm, I buy tehcheap ones and I doubt they'll break
if droped on the floor. It's like cast irons gates you don;t expect them to shatter if you slam them shut, well I wouldn't.

On Jul 5, 12:03*pm, Mark
wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jul 2012 03:06:11 -0700 (PDT), "Man at B&Q"









wrote:
On Jul 5, 10:27*am, Mark
wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jul 2012 02:21:18 -0700 (PDT), "Man at B&Q"
wrote:
On Jul 4, 4:42*pm, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:57:35 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:48, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron broke,
but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design to
withstand a fall from its intended installation position (kitchen
surface height) to the floor.

I'm going to phone Comet (the retailer)

Michael

I woinder if teh EU sales act or whatever can help, I've heard Apple now
have to offer a two year wattenrty on their computers for people in the EU
rather than 1 year, not sure why though (leggaly) they have to abide bthe
EU 'standards'

I believe the two year period in the rest of the EU is similar to the
6 year period under the Sale Of Goods Act in the UK.

IIRC the EU are trying to get manufacturers to offer 2 year warranties
on everything. *I'm not sure which rule takes precedence.

Yes, but not in the UK. Following the EU would be a retrograde step
for UK consumers, due to the protection offered by the sale of goods
act.

Not in every way. *AFAIK it's not up to the consumer to prove that
there was an inherent fault after 6 months (with the EU rules).

In the UK, claims are, in any case, against the retailer not the
manufacturer.

SoGA claims are. *Warranty claims are not.

Any guarantee (warranty) given by the manufacturer is in *addition* to
your legal redress under SoGA. Most manufacturers make that clear in
the wording of their guarantee "blah...does not affect your statutory
rights...blah". Claims in the UK are always against the retailer in
the first instance.

The manufacturer may sell you an extended warranty or (voluntarily)
offer something over and above your legal rights or (voluntarily) run
a scheme to cut out the retailer. For instance VAX "hoovers" come with
a sticker advising you to call them direct, rather than take it back
to the shop. That scheme works ratehr well (I had cause to use it),
but is purely in the interests of promoting excellent customer
service. There is no legal requirement for VAX to do that, and any
retailer MUST honour their obligations under SoGA.

MBQ

In article ,
Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Why do you think I was getting the hump with you? I was merely saying
that the question of cast iron's brittleness isn't the important issue -
it's whether the damn thing should be designed and made with such a
brittle metal in the first place given that it's a detachable (and
droppable) part of the hob.

You give the impression it sort of fell off as part of a normal cooking
process. Isn't it held onto the top in some way - even by a ridge?

--
*Remember: First you pillage, then you burn.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 7/5/2012 9:30 AM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Why do you think I was getting the hump with you? I was merely saying
that the question of cast iron's brittleness isn't the important issue -
it's whether the damn thing should be designed and made with such a
brittle metal in the first place given that it's a detachable (and
droppable) part of the hob.

You give the impression it sort of fell off as part of a normal cooking
process. Isn't it held onto the top in some way - even by a ridge?

I had been wondering that myself! I can't come up with any plausible
scenario which ends with the pan rest falling off the hob.

On Thu, 05 Jul 2012 11:10:16 -0400, S Viemeister wrote:

On 7/5/2012 9:30 AM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Why do you think I was getting the hump with you? I was merely saying
that the question of cast iron's brittleness isn't the important issue
- it's whether the damn thing should be designed and made with such a
brittle metal in the first place given that it's a detachable (and
droppable) part of the hob.

You give the impression it sort of fell off as part of a normal cooking
process. Isn't it held onto the top in some way - even by a ridge?

I had been wondering that myself! I can't come up with any plausible
scenario which ends with the pan rest falling off the hob.

Pan boils over with sticky stuff. User lifts pan off. Pan rest follows.
Pan rest parts company with sticky stuff.



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 7/5/2012 11:51 AM, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jul 2012 11:10:16 -0400, S Viemeister wrote:

On 7/5/2012 9:30 AM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Why do you think I was getting the hump with you? I was merely saying
that the question of cast iron's brittleness isn't the important issue
- it's whether the damn thing should be designed and made with such a
brittle metal in the first place given that it's a detachable (and
droppable) part of the hob.

You give the impression it sort of fell off as part of a normal cooking
process. Isn't it held onto the top in some way - even by a ridge?

I had been wondering that myself! I can't come up with any plausible
scenario which ends with the pan rest falling off the hob.

Pan boils over with sticky stuff. User lifts pan off. Pan rest follows.
Pan rest parts company with sticky stuff.

Plausible - but I would have thought it less likely with a heavy cast
iron one, than with those thin little steel ones.

whisky-dave wrote
Rod Speed wrote
whisky-dave wrote
Michael Kilpatrick wrote
Onetap wrote
Michael Kilpatrick wrote

Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had
broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron broke,
but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design to
withstand a fall from its intended installation position (kitchen
surface height) to the floor.

I'm going to phone Comet (the retailer)

I woinder if teh EU sales act or whatever can help, I've heard Apple now
have to offer a two year wattenrty on their computers for people in the
EU rather than 1 year, not sure why though (leggaly) they have to abide
by the EU 'standards'

Because the EU controls sales in the EU.

But I doubt that the EU sales act actually says that anything glass
is covered if its dropped in 2 years from purchase and its very
arguable whether grey cast iron is any different in that regard.

It's all about fit for purpose, whatever that might mean.

Yes, but its very far from clear whether that does mean it can be dropped
with impunity.

Certainly most glass items can't, particularly on the
hard floors that are so common in so many kitchens.

Most ceramics can't be either.

I'd have thought cast iron saucepans could be dropped on the floor,

There's a difference between brittle GREY cast iron and other cast iron.

but then I would buy cast ironm, I buy tehcheap ones
and I doubt they'll break if droped on the floor.

I don't buy caste iron saucepans myself, I use
stainless steel with those heavy bases myself.

And I don't buy them new either, I get them
at yard/garage/car boot sales for peanuts.

I do however have a number of those cast iron plate things
that you put under the grill when cooking a steak and put on
a thick wooden thing and eat the steak of what you cook it on.

I know they don't break when you drop them even on a concrete floor.

But then they arent likely to be GREY cast iron.

It's like cast irons gates you don;t expect them
to shatter if you slam them shut, well I wouldn't.

Yes, but they arent necessarily GREY cast iron.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cast_iron

Corse its very arguable whether GREY cast iron stuff that small
enough to be droppable is fit for purpose for kitchen stuff.

On 04/07/2012 20:04, ARWadsworth wrote:
Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 04/07/2012 11:31, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:57, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:48, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick
wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty
is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it
had broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron
broke, but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a
design to withstand a fall from its intended installation
position (kitchen surface height) to the floor.

To be fair, it was designed to stand a pan on, not to be dropped.

My TV remote conrol is designed to control a TV, but it clearly
withstands being dropped on the floor. Many times. It wasn't made
with a plastic casing that was brittle.

My TV remote control failed after I had shoved it up my girlfriends ****.


TV remotes are designed to change TV channels and not to be dropped on the
floor or shoved up fannys.

You would expect TV remotes to be designed not to break when dropped, as
that is going to be a common occurrence for them. Use as sex toys I
would accept as not being part of the design parameters

On 05/07/2012 10:27, Mark wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jul 2012 02:21:18 -0700 (PDT), "Man at B&Q"
wrote:

On Jul 4, 4:42 pm, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:57:35 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:48, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron broke,
but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design to
withstand a fall from its intended installation position (kitchen
surface height) to the floor.

I'm going to phone Comet (the retailer)

Michael

I woinder if teh EU sales act or whatever can help, I've heard Apple now
have to offer a two year wattenrty on their computers for people in the EU
rather than 1 year, not sure why though (leggaly) they have to abide bthe
EU 'standards'

I believe the two year period in the rest of the EU is similar to the
6 year period under the Sale Of Goods Act in the UK.

IIRC the EU are trying to get manufacturers to offer 2 year warranties
on everything. I'm not sure which rule takes precedence.

The sale of goods act takes precedence in this case. The EU simply
require 2 year warranties on many things, whereas the sale of goods act
specifically is nothing to do with warranties.

SteveW

On 05/07/2012 14:30, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Why do you think I was getting the hump with you? I was merely saying
that the question of cast iron's brittleness isn't the important issue -
it's whether the damn thing should be designed and made with such a
brittle metal in the first place given that it's a detachable (and
droppable) part of the hob.

You give the impression it sort of fell off as part of a normal cooking
process. Isn't it held onto the top in some way - even by a ridge?


It's not attached at all. There is a raised circular area surrounding
the gas burners - just a couple of mm high. Around the circumference of
this raised area are four small indentations (about 5mm in, max) which
more or less locate the four feet of the pan stand. It's barely held in
place by anything at all. Less so than with other hobs I've had/seen.

I don't know how it happened, but I was manipulating a large frying pan
and somehow it dragged the pan stand with it some distance - it had to
in order to get it fall off and onto the floor. Most bizarre, it was.
Baffling. It just seemed to take off and fly.

Anyway, it's very easy to push the pan stands out of location.

Michael

On 05/07/2012 21:14, SteveW wrote:

You would expect TV remotes to be designed not to break when dropped, as
that is going to be a common occurrence for them. Use as sex toys I
would accept as not being part of the design parameters

Quite! Whatever people might think of my particular gripe, it's bizarre
to suggest that everyday objects are not designed to withstand various
sorts of accidents which are commonplace. That's why I mentioined TV
remotes as a classic example. They moved around from furnitute to
furniture all the time in a household with more than one person.

I find it quite disturbing that people imagine that no goods like that
are designed with any sort of robustness against accidents whatsoever.

On the other hand it's blatently obvious that you can't expect the same
for a bone china mug or a camera.

As for this particular piece of metalwa why design it with four very
thin arms and very large feet at the end of each such that there's a
very large moment on the thinnest part when it lands in a certain
orientation?

Michael

In article ,
Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
You would expect TV remotes to be designed not to break when dropped,
as that is going to be a common occurrence for them. Use as sex toys I
would accept as not being part of the design parameters

Quite! Whatever people might think of my particular gripe, it's bizarre
to suggest that everyday objects are not designed to withstand various
sorts of accidents which are commonplace. That's why I mentioined TV
remotes as a classic example. They moved around from furnitute to
furniture all the time in a household with more than one person.

They are a hand held device so it's reasonable to expect them to be
dropped. However, a china cup is also a hand held device, and most
wouldn't expect that to survive being dropped.

I find it quite disturbing that people imagine that no goods like that
are designed with any sort of robustness against accidents whatsoever.

My more conventional gas hob has two cast iron frames which support the
pans. If I dropped one of those during cleaning I'd not be surprised if it
broke.

On the other hand it's blatently obvious that you can't expect the same
for a bone china mug or a camera.

As for this particular piece of metalwa why design it with four very
thin arms and very large feet at the end of each such that there's a
very large moment on the thinnest part when it lands in a certain
orientation?

The very fact that it can be dislodged so easily is bad design. It simply
couldn't happen with mine.

--
*Too many clicks spoil the browse *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Jul 5, 9:17*pm, SteveW wrote:
On 05/07/2012 10:27, Mark wrote:









On Thu, 5 Jul 2012 02:21:18 -0700 (PDT), "Man at B&Q"
wrote:

On Jul 4, 4:42 pm, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:57:35 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:48, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron broke,
but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design to
withstand a fall from its intended installation position (kitchen
surface height) to the floor.

I'm going to phone Comet (the retailer)

Michael

I woinder if teh EU sales act or whatever can help, I've heard Apple now
have to offer a two year wattenrty on their computers for people in the EU
rather than 1 year, not sure why though (leggaly) they have to abide bthe
EU 'standards'

I believe the two year period in the rest of the EU is similar to the
6 year period under the Sale Of Goods Act in the UK.

IIRC the EU are trying to get manufacturers to offer 2 year warranties
on everything. *I'm not sure which rule takes precedence.

The sale of goods act takes precedence in this case. The EU simply
require 2 year warranties on many things, whereas the sale of goods act
specifically is nothing to do with warranties.

SteveW

THe EU requirement is, to all intents, irrelevant in the UK. You need
to look at the relevant law that brought the EU directive into UK law.

MBQ

On 05/07/2012 21:14, SteveW wrote:
On 04/07/2012 20:04, ARWadsworth wrote:
Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 04/07/2012 11:31, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:57, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:48, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick
wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty
is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it
had broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron
broke, but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a
design to withstand a fall from its intended installation
position (kitchen surface height) to the floor.

To be fair, it was designed to stand a pan on, not to be dropped.

My TV remote conrol is designed to control a TV, but it clearly
withstands being dropped on the floor. Many times. It wasn't made
with a plastic casing that was brittle.

My TV remote control failed after I had shoved it up my girlfriends ****.


TV remotes are designed to change TV channels and not to be dropped on
the
floor or shoved up fannys.

You would expect TV remotes to be designed not to break when dropped, as
that is going to be a common occurrence for them. Use as sex toys I
would accept as not being part of the design parameters

Yeah, a Wii remote control with the ribbed rubber covering and vibration
feature would be much better suited -)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 05/07/2012 22:59, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 05/07/2012 21:14, SteveW wrote:

You would expect TV remotes to be designed not to break when dropped, as
that is going to be a common occurrence for them. Use as sex toys I
would accept as not being part of the design parameters

Quite! Whatever people might think of my particular gripe, it's bizarre
to suggest that everyday objects are not designed to withstand various
sorts of accidents which are commonplace. That's why I mentioined TV
remotes as a classic example. They moved around from furnitute to
furniture all the time in a household with more than one person.

I find it quite disturbing that people imagine that no goods like that
are designed with any sort of robustness against accidents whatsoever.

On the other hand it's blatently obvious that you can't expect the same
for a bone china mug or a camera.

As for this particular piece of metalwa why design it with four very
thin arms and very large feet at the end of each such that there's a
very large moment on the thinnest part when it lands in a certain
orientation?

In a word "designers" - not the engineer sort, who actually know how to
design stuff so that it works, but the aesthetic ones whoe think they
know how to make it look cool and funky...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 07/07/2012 19:35, John Rumm wrote:
In a word "designers" - not the engineer sort, who actually know how to
design stuff so that it works, but the aesthetic ones whoe think they
know how to make it look cool and funky...


Cool + funky = clunky, and therefore fragile, in this case?

Michael

On Thursday, July 5, 2012 10:59:44 PM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:

As for this particular piece of metalwa why design it with four very
thin arms and very large feet at the end of each such that there's a
very large moment on the thinnest part when it lands in a certain
orientation?

So they can expect many repeat orders at £70 a pop for their cheap and nasty castings that they've imported at a cost of not more than £3 a piece?

On 07/07/2012 22:00, Onetap wrote:
On Thursday, July 5, 2012 10:59:44 PM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick
wrote:

As for this particular piece of metalwa why design it with four
very thin arms and very large feet at the end of each such that
there's a very large moment on the thinnest part when it lands in a
certain orientation?

So they can expect many repeat orders at £70 a pop for their cheap
and nasty castings that they've imported at a cost of not more than
£3 a piece?



Oooh, you cynic!

Michael