Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Oone of the (cast iron, allegedly) pan stands (see
http://www.3pinsappliance.com/cgi-bi...cgi?prodID=402)
slipped off our gas hob when I was cooking too hastily the other day,
and landed on the floor. Yes, it was a cushioned lino floor, but still
the pan stand cracked and broke into two!

18 months after the purchase date, of course.

When I submitted an on-line request to Whirlpool I got an email reply
two days later reminding me that there's a 1yr warranty and saying that
if it's out of warranty I should phone such and such to order a
replacement.

The question is, if a metal component falls on a cushioned lino floor
and breaks, was it ever fit for purpose?

Does anyone think I can whinge more about this and get any better results?

Michael

On 04/07/2012 09:36, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Oone of the (cast iron, allegedly) pan stands (see
http://www.3pinsappliance.com/cgi-bi...cgi?prodID=402)
slipped off our gas hob when I was cooking too hastily the other day,
and landed on the floor. Yes, it was a cushioned lino floor, but still
the pan stand cracked and broke into two!



****ing hell, one website I've found suggests that a replacement pan
stand costs £50.99.

In other words, replacing all four pan stands would cost 58% of the
original purchase price.

What does the law say exactly about manufacturing faults being covered
for 6 years after purchase? Is a bit of cast iron that can't withstand a
drop onto a cushioned lino floor manufactured properly?

Michael

On Wed, 04 Jul 2012 09:46:29 +0100, Michael Kilpatrick
wrote:

On 04/07/2012 09:36, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Oone of the (cast iron, allegedly) pan stands (see
http://www.3pinsappliance.com/cgi-bi...cgi?prodID=402)
slipped off our gas hob when I was cooking too hastily the other day,
and landed on the floor. Yes, it was a cushioned lino floor, but still
the pan stand cracked and broke into two!

****ing hell, one website I've found suggests that a replacement pan
stand costs £50.99.

In other words, replacing all four pan stands would cost 58% of the
original purchase price.

What does the law say exactly about manufacturing faults being covered
for 6 years after purchase? Is a bit of cast iron that can't withstand a
drop onto a cushioned lino floor manufactured properly?

To claim under the Sale of Goods Act (from the retailer not the
manufacturer) you would have to prove that is had a defect at the time
of purchase. Since you have dropped it they would claim misuse and I
very much doubt you would win a court case.

Put this one down to experience.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had broken.
See the 'Casting Question' thread on here a week or two back.
Ductile cast iron is less brittle. It was invented about 1949 but costs more than the grey variety.

On 04/07/2012 09:48, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron broke,
but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design to
withstand a fall from its intended installation position (kitchen
surface height) to the floor.

I'm going to phone Comet (the retailer)

Michael

On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:57:35 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron broke,
but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design to
withstand a fall from its intended installation position (kitchen
surface height) to the floor.

Cast iron is brittle, almost as brittle as glass in most cases, possibly more brittle. They are flakes of graphite and slag inclusions in it, that is what makes it brittle. They're sand cast in some Asian sweat shop foundry in a coke fired furnace.

There's no point in getting the hump with me. You bought a cast iron kitchen implement, you dropped it, you broke it. Would you be similarly wibbling if you had dropped a glass oven dish or a porcelain plate? They're brittle too.

You seem to have misinterpreted the 'metal' or 'cast iron' as being unbreakable; I see 'cast iron' and interpret the label as 'brittle ****e'. You've got a cast iron guarantee, best of luck with your claim.

On 04/07/2012 11:20, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:57:35 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick
wrote:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it
had broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron
broke, but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design
to withstand a fall from its intended installation position
(kitchen surface height) to the floor.

Cast iron is brittle, almost as brittle as glass in most cases,
possibly more brittle. They are flakes of graphite and slag
inclusions in it, that is what makes it brittle. They're sand cast in
some Asian sweat shop foundry in a coke fired furnace.

There's no point in getting the hump with me.

Why do you think I was getting the hump with you? I was merely saying
that the question of cast iron's brittleness isn't the important issue -
it's whether the damn thing should be designed and made with such a
brittle metal in the first place given that it's a detachable (and
droppable) part of the hob.

Michael

On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 11:33:03 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:

Why do you think I was getting the hump with you? I was merely saying
that the question of cast iron's brittleness isn't the important issue -
it's whether the damn thing should be designed and made with such a
brittle metal in the first place given that it's a detachable (and
droppable) part of the hob.

Your previous post read as being a bit brusque to me, i.e.,
It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron broke,


I just happen to know that the grey stuff is brittle, mostly due to a lot of years in building services engineering and previous encounters with shattered gutters, rain water pipes, 1880s heating mains etc.. I also just happen to know that a cast iron manhole cover will not support the front wheel of a Renault estate car. **** happens; it very often happens in a cast iron S&V pipe.

However, I wouldn't expect Mr or Mrs Average to know much about the properties of the cast iron cookware she/he buys, so it's possible you might be able to claim on the basis that it should be expected to have lasted longer and/or be plastered in 'Fragile' stickers. 'Cast Iron' construction is regarded as a asset and charged for accordingly; see 'Le Creuset' cookware.

The reality is that casting iron is often a very low tech process. One of the model engineering books I had when I was young had details of sand-casting your own castings for steam engines with a home-made back-yard furnace..

In article ,
Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Why do you think I was getting the hump with you? I was merely saying
that the question of cast iron's brittleness isn't the important issue -
it's whether the damn thing should be designed and made with such a
brittle metal in the first place given that it's a detachable (and
droppable) part of the hob.

You give the impression it sort of fell off as part of a normal cooking
process. Isn't it held onto the top in some way - even by a ridge?

--
*Remember: First you pillage, then you burn.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 04/07/2012 09:57, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:48, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had
broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron broke,
but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design to
withstand a fall from its intended installation position (kitchen
surface height) to the floor.

To be fair, it was designed to stand a pan on, not to be dropped.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 04/07/2012 11:31, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:57, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:48, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had
broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron broke,
but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design to
withstand a fall from its intended installation position (kitchen
surface height) to the floor.

To be fair, it was designed to stand a pan on, not to be dropped.

My TV remote conrol is designed to control a TV, but it clearly
withstands being dropped on the floor. Many times. It wasn't made with a
plastic casing that was brittle.

Michael

Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 04/07/2012 11:31, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:57, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:48, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick
wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty
is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it
had broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron
broke, but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a
design to withstand a fall from its intended installation
position (kitchen surface height) to the floor.

To be fair, it was designed to stand a pan on, not to be dropped.

My TV remote conrol is designed to control a TV, but it clearly
withstands being dropped on the floor. Many times. It wasn't made
with a plastic casing that was brittle.

My TV remote control failed after I had shoved it up my girlfriends ****.


TV remotes are designed to change TV channels and not to be dropped on the
floor or shoved up fannys.

You broke it. End of story.



--
Adam

On Jul 4, 11:40*am, Michael Kilpatrick
wrote:
On 04/07/2012 11:31, The Medway Handyman wrote:

On 04/07/2012 09:57, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:48, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had
broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron broke,
but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design to
withstand a fall from its intended installation position (kitchen
surface height) to the floor.

To be fair, it was designed to stand a pan on, not to be dropped.

My TV remote conrol is designed to control a TV, but it clearly
withstands being dropped on the floor. Many times. It wasn't made with a
plastic casing that was brittle.

Michael

You don't expect Denby to guarantee all their china against being
dropped.

You dropped it, get over it.

MBQ

On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:57:35 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:48, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron broke,
but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design to
withstand a fall from its intended installation position (kitchen
surface height) to the floor.

I'm going to phone Comet (the retailer)

Michael

I woinder if teh EU sales act or whatever can help, I've heard Apple now have to offer a two year wattenrty on their computers for people in the EU rather than 1 year, not sure why though (leggaly) they have to abide bthe EU 'standards'

whisky-dave wrote
Michael Kilpatrick wrote
Onetap wrote
Michael Kilpatrick wrote

Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had
broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron broke,
but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design to
withstand a fall from its intended installation position (kitchen
surface height) to the floor.

I'm going to phone Comet (the retailer)

I woinder if teh EU sales act or whatever can help, I've heard Apple now
have
to offer a two year wattenrty on their computers for people in the EU
rather
than 1 year, not sure why though (leggaly) they have to abide bthe EU
'standards'

Because the EU controls sales in the EU.

But I doubt that the EU sales act actually says that anything glass is
covered if its dropped in 2 years from purchase and its very arguable
whether grey cast iron is any different in that regard.

On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:21:56 PM UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
whisky-dave wrote
Michael Kilpatrick wrote
Onetap wrote
Michael Kilpatrick wrote

Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had
broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron broke,
but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design to
withstand a fall from its intended installation position (kitchen
surface height) to the floor.

I'm going to phone Comet (the retailer)

I woinder if teh EU sales act or whatever can help, I've heard Apple now
have
to offer a two year wattenrty on their computers for people in the EU
rather
than 1 year, not sure why though (leggaly) they have to abide bthe EU
'standards'

Because the EU controls sales in the EU.

But I doubt that the EU sales act actually says that anything glass is
covered if its dropped in 2 years from purchase and its very arguable
whether grey cast iron is any different in that regard.

It's all about fit for purpose, whatever that might mean.
I'd have thought cast iron saucepans could be dropped on the floor,
but then I would buy cast ironm, I buy tehcheap ones and I doubt they'll break
if droped on the floor. It's like cast irons gates you don;t expect them to shatter if you slam them shut, well I wouldn't.

On Jul 4, 4:42*pm, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:57:35 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:48, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron broke,
but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design to
withstand a fall from its intended installation position (kitchen
surface height) to the floor.

I'm going to phone Comet (the retailer)

Michael

I woinder if teh EU sales act or whatever can help, I've heard Apple now have to offer a two year wattenrty on their computers for people in the EU rather than 1 year, not sure why though (leggaly) they have to abide bthe EU 'standards'

I believe the two year period in the rest of the EU is similar to the
6 year period under the Sale Of Goods Act in the UK.

MBQ

On Thu, 5 Jul 2012 02:21:18 -0700 (PDT), "Man at B&Q"
wrote:

On Jul 4, 4:42*pm, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:57:35 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:48, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron broke,
but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design to
withstand a fall from its intended installation position (kitchen
surface height) to the floor.

I'm going to phone Comet (the retailer)

Michael

I woinder if teh EU sales act or whatever can help, I've heard Apple now
have to offer a two year wattenrty on their computers for people in the EU
rather than 1 year, not sure why though (leggaly) they have to abide bthe
EU 'standards'

I believe the two year period in the rest of the EU is similar to the
6 year period under the Sale Of Goods Act in the UK.

IIRC the EU are trying to get manufacturers to offer 2 year warranties
on everything. I'm not sure which rule takes precedence.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
On 04/07/2012 09:48, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick
wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had
broken.

It's not a question of whether you should be surprised cast iron
broke, but whether such a thing should not obviously be of a design to
withstand a fall from its intended installation position (kitchen
surface height) to the floor.

I'm going to phone Comet (the retailer)

Good idea, I'll phone Osram - those ****ing bulbs they make can't even
withstand a fall from ceiling height without shattering into a million bits.

On 04/07/2012 09:48, Onetap wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:36:42 AM UTC+1, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Grey cast iron is very brittle, I wouldn't be surprised that it had broken.
See the 'Casting Question' thread on here a week or two back.
Ductile cast iron is less brittle. It was invented about 1949 but costs more than the grey variety.

A skilled TIG welder may be able to fix it for you (they repaired one
for me years ago, but admittedly I don't know if it was grey or ductile)

On Wed, 04 Jul 2012 10:21:39 +0100, newshound wrote:

A skilled TIG welder may be able to fix it for you (they repaired one
for me years ago, but admittedly I don't know if it was grey or
ductile)

Or check out the accidental damage section (and the excess...) of your
contents insurance.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 04/07/2012 09:36, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
Another example of how worthless the typical 1-year warranty is:

Oone of the (cast iron, allegedly) pan stands (see
http://www.3pinsappliance.com/cgi-bi...cgi?prodID=402)
slipped off our gas hob when I was cooking too hastily the other day,
and landed on the floor. Yes, it was a cushioned lino floor, but still
the pan stand cracked and broke into two!

I don't think there is much doubt now that it was cast iron...
Cast iron is very brittle and tends to do that when shocked by dropping.

18 months after the purchase date, of course.

When I submitted an on-line request to Whirlpool I got an email reply
two days later reminding me that there's a 1yr warranty and saying that
if it's out of warranty I should phone such and such to order a
replacement.

The question is, if a metal component falls on a cushioned lino floor
and breaks, was it ever fit for purpose?

Yes. You were careless and dropped it - end story.

Does anyone think I can whinge more about this and get any better results?

Michael

No. (But I expect someone will though - you obviously do)

Nobody takes any responsibility for their own actions these days

--
Regards,
Martin Brown