What king of device could turn on the power
to an electric storage heater
only when its sunny and my solar panels
are exporting energy to the grid?

[george]

george [dicegeorge] wrote:
What king of device could turn on the power
to an electric storage heater
only when its sunny and my solar panels
are exporting energy to the grid?

[george]

Try a Greene King

In article ,
"george [dicegeorge]" writes:
What king of device could turn on the power
to an electric storage heater
only when its sunny and my solar panels
are exporting energy to the grid?

Assuming you're on FIT, this is extremely expensive because you
will be losing 43p/unit that you put into your storage heaters,
but it will only cost you low rate (no idea, 6p/unit ?) to run
them at night on E7.

I know that sounds stupid, but it's because of the frigged solar
panel scheme - you are being paid much more for your solar energy
than it's worth. You need to minimize your own energy consumption
when the panels are generating, and try to use energy when they
aren't.

If you really want to heat the house using solar, you need to use
solar water heating into a thermal store. That way you are making
much more efficient use of the energy, because you aren't going
through the phase to convert it to electricity, which is very
inefficient in solar panels.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

"george writes:
What king of device could turn on the power
to an electric storage heater
only when its sunny and my solar panels
are exporting energy to the grid?

Assuming you're on FIT, this is extremely expensive because you
will be losing 43p/unit that you put into your storage heaters,

That's not how it works AFAIK, the 43p is paid for generating it, not
exporting it (there's a small additional payment for that), he could
have solar powered 500W halogens lights in his garden and be paid to run
them while the sun shines...

In article ,
Andy Burns writes:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

"george writes:
What king of device could turn on the power
to an electric storage heater
only when its sunny and my solar panels
are exporting energy to the grid?

Assuming you're on FIT, this is extremely expensive because you
will be losing 43p/unit that you put into your storage heaters,

That's not how it works AFAIK, the 43p is paid for generating it, not
exporting it (there's a small additional payment for that), he could
have solar powered 500W halogens lights in his garden and be paid to run
them while the sun shines...

Actually, I think you may be right..

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 26/02/2012 21:16, Andy Burns wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

"george writes:
What king of device could turn on the power
to an electric storage heater
only when its sunny and my solar panels
are exporting energy to the grid?

Assuming you're on FIT, this is extremely expensive because you
will be losing 43p/unit that you put into your storage heaters,

That's not how it works AFAIK, the 43p is paid for generating it, not
exporting it (there's a small additional payment for that), he could
have solar powered 500W halogens lights in his garden and be paid to run
them while the sun shines...

The FIT is even more barking mad than it seems at first sight then.

Using solar power to drive resistive electric storage heaters should
forfeit all FIT subsidies on the PV electricity used that way!

The daft government produced a system for PV that provides a perverse
incentive not to install the one sort of solar powered water heating kit
that does actually give a decent (well better) true ROI.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 21:39:14 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

Assuming you're on FIT, this is extremely expensive because you
will be losing 43p/unit that you put into your storage heaters,

That's not how it works AFAIK, the 43p is paid for generating it,
not
exporting it (there's a small additional payment for that), he
could
have solar powered 500W halogens lights in his garden and be paid
to
run them while the sun shines...

Yep.

The FIT is even more barking mad than it seems at first sight then.

Even more barking when you find out that if you don't have a fully
metered system you are deemed to export 50% of what you generate and
get the extra 3p/unit export rate for that 50%.

So you can use all the PV electricity lighting halogen lamps in your
back yard during the day and get paid the 43p/unit FiT for all those
units *and* extra 3p/unit of 50%.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 26/02/12 22:22, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 21:39:14 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

Assuming you're on FIT, this is extremely expensive because you
will be losing 43p/unit that you put into your storage heaters,

That's not how it works AFAIK, the 43p is paid for generating it,
not
exporting it (there's a small additional payment for that), he
could
have solar powered 500W halogens lights in his garden and be paid
to
run them while the sun shines...

Yep.

The FIT is even more barking mad than it seems at first sight then.

Even more barking when you find out that if you don't have a fully
metered system you are deemed to export 50% of what you generate and
get the extra 3p/unit export rate for that 50%.

So you can use all the PV electricity lighting halogen lamps in your
back yard during the day and get paid the 43p/unit FiT for all those
units *and* extra 3p/unit of 50%.


Yes, but they are inventing a meter which measures how much you put back
in the grid so this last dodge will not be possible.
Labour invented the FIT scheme to encourage solar panels,
but left a few loopholes.
[george]

On Feb 26, 9:07*pm, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,
* * * * "george [dicegeorge]" writes:

What king of device could turn on the power
to an electric storage heater
only when its sunny and my solar panels
are exporting energy to the grid?

Assuming you're on FIT, this is extremely expensive because you
will be losing 43p/unit that you put into your storage heaters,
but it will only cost you low rate (no idea, 6p/unit ?) to run
them at night on E7.

I know that sounds stupid, but it's because of the frigged solar
panel scheme - you are being paid much more for your solar energy
than it's worth. You need to minimize your own energy consumption
when the panels are generating, and try to use energy when they
aren't.

If you really want to heat the house using solar, you need to use
solar water heating into a thermal store. That way you are making
much more efficient use of the energy, because you aren't going
through the phase to convert it to electricity, which is very
inefficient in solar panels.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]


You get the £0.43 whether you export it or use it.

On Feb 26, 8:48*pm, "george [dicegeorge]"
wrote:
What king of device could turn on the power
to an electric storage heater
only when its sunny and my solar panels
are exporting energy to the grid?

[george]

Now you have found the problem of having the inverter in the loft, you
can't see what it's doing/generating on the display.

I think on a day when the sun is so strong, you won't need your
storage heaters anyway.

May be you could find a PV switch (outdoor lighting sort of thing)
that has sufficient adjustment range to be useful. Or maybe site it
indoors where light levels are reduced?
You would need a suitable relay to carry the load and reverse it's
action.

Then you have the problem of warming the heaters when there's no PV.

The problem with trying to reduce your electricity bills with PV is
that you have to be there to at PV max time (ie midday).
We are there & save around 25% off our bill.

On Feb 26, 9:39*pm, Martin Brown
wrote:
On 26/02/2012 21:16, Andy Burns wrote:

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

"george writes:
What king of device could turn on the power
to an electric storage heater
only when its sunny and my solar panels
are exporting energy to the grid?

Assuming you're on FIT, this is extremely expensive because you
will be losing 43p/unit that you put into your storage heaters,

That's not how it works AFAIK, the 43p is paid for generating it, not
exporting it (there's a small additional payment for that), he could
have solar powered 500W halogens lights in his garden and be paid to run
them while the sun shines...

The FIT is even more barking mad than it seems at first sight then.

Using solar power to drive resistive electric storage heaters should
forfeit all FIT subsidies on the PV electricity used that way!

The daft government produced a system for PV that provides a perverse
incentive not to install the one sort of solar powered water heating kit
that does actually give a decent (well better) true ROI.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

PV panels provide useful power when thermal panels won't.
They are less efficient but the energy they produce can be used for
anything and is more valuble.

On Feb 26, 11:23*pm, "george [dicegeorge]"
wrote:
On 26/02/12 22:22, Dave Liquorice wrote:





On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 21:39:14 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

Assuming you're on FIT, this is extremely expensive because you
will be losing 43p/unit that you put into your storage heaters,

That's not how it works AFAIK, the 43p is paid for generating it,
not
exporting it (there's a small additional payment for that), he
could
have solar powered 500W halogens lights in his garden and be paid
to
run them while the sun shines...

Yep.

The FIT is even more barking mad than it seems at first sight then.

Even more barking when you find out that if you don't have a fully
metered system you are deemed to export 50% of what you generate and
get the extra 3p/unit export rate for that 50%.

So you can use all the PV electricity lighting halogen lamps in your
back yard during the day and get paid the 43p/unit FiT for all those
units *and* extra 3p/unit of 50%.

Yes, but they are inventing a meter which measures how much you put back
in the grid so this last dodge will not be possible.
Labour invented the FIT scheme to encourage solar panels,
but left a few loopholes.
[george]- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Any meter will do this if connected with the current connections
reversed.

Import/export meters are already available anyway.
It's just not financially viable to fit one to small arrays.
If you had a larger array, one would be fitted.

On Feb 26, 11:23*pm, "george [dicegeorge]"
wrote:
On 26/02/12 22:22, Dave Liquorice wrote:





On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 21:39:14 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

Assuming you're on FIT, this is extremely expensive because you
will be losing 43p/unit that you put into your storage heaters,

That's not how it works AFAIK, the 43p is paid for generating it,
not
exporting it (there's a small additional payment for that), he
could
have solar powered 500W halogens lights in his garden and be paid
to
run them while the sun shines...

Yep.

The FIT is even more barking mad than it seems at first sight then.

Even more barking when you find out that if you don't have a fully
metered system you are deemed to export 50% of what you generate and
get the extra 3p/unit export rate for that 50%.

So you can use all the PV electricity lighting halogen lamps in your
back yard during the day and get paid the 43p/unit FiT for all those
units *and* extra 3p/unit of 50%.

Yes, but they are inventing a meter which measures how much you put back
in the grid so this last dodge will not be possible.
Labour invented the FIT scheme to encourage solar panels,
but left a few loopholes.
[george]- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There was a previous scheme to FIT but it is not so lucrative.
If you are going to have dispersed micro-generation, something of the
sort was neccessary. People have got used to the idea now. They are
popping up all round me now.
Where they came unstuck was they never realised that interest rates
would fall so low & people would buy PV to protect themselves.
At the moment PV is insignificant but when/if it becomes common, it
will be neccessary for updated smart meters will control them from a
central point (Smart grid)

PV news here
http://www.solarpowerportal.co.uk/

http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/S...city/et5_6.xls

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 23:23:15 +0000, george [dicegeorge] wrote:

Even more barking when you find out that if you don't have a fully
metered system you are deemed to export 50% of what you generate
and
get the extra 3p/unit export rate for that 50%.

Yes, but they are inventing a meter which measures how much you put back
in the grid so this last dodge will not be possible.

Whaday mean "inventing"? They are available now but not fitted a)
'cause they cost more b) would reduce the income from the PV c) they
are optional for small systems. Who is going to fit something that is
optional, costs more, and reduces the income?

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 20:48:15 +0000, "george [dicegeorge]"
wrote:

What king of device could turn on the power
to an electric storage heater
only when its sunny and my solar panels
are exporting energy to the grid?

[george]



http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/ind...board,7.0.html

Some people discussing same sort of thing on there
--
http://www.voucherfreebies.co.uk

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 23:40:56 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:

I think on a day when the sun is so strong, you won't need your
storage heaters anyway.

Certainly in the summer. If I'd installed PV I'd arange any surplus
to be dumped into the thermal store rather than storeage heaters. I'd
only actually export in extremis, like thermal store completely
heated to 90C+.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 22:22:54 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 21:39:14 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

Assuming you're on FIT, this is extremely expensive because you
will be losing 43p/unit that you put into your storage heaters,

That's not how it works AFAIK, the 43p is paid for generating it,
not
exporting it (there's a small additional payment for that), he
could
have solar powered 500W halogens lights in his garden and be paid
to
run them while the sun shines...

Yep.

The FIT is even more barking mad than it seems at first sight then.

Even more barking when you find out that if you don't have a fully
metered system you are deemed to export 50% of what you generate and
get the extra 3p/unit export rate for that 50%.

So you can use all the PV electricity lighting halogen lamps in your
back yard during the day and get paid the 43p/unit FiT for all those
units *and* extra 3p/unit of 50%.

You could also point the halogen lights at the solar panels and
'boost' the output.


--

On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 11:24:23 +0000, The Other Mike wrote:

You could also point the halogen lights at the solar panels and
'boost' the output.

You wouldn't want to do that. The extra power generated would push
the voltage up too high and blow the bulbs. B-)

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 27/02/12 09:14, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 23:40:56 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:

I think on a day when the sun is so strong, you won't need your
storage heaters anyway.

Certainly in the summer. If I'd installed PV I'd arange any surplus
to be dumped into the thermal store rather than storeage heaters. I'd
only actually export in extremis, like thermal store completely
heated to 90C+.

the storage heater is a thermal store isnt it?
[g]

On 27/02/12 07:46, harry wrote:
On Feb 26, 11:23 pm, "george
wrote:
On 26/02/12 22:22, Dave Liquorice wrote:





On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 21:39:14 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

Assuming you're on FIT, this is extremely expensive because you
will be losing 43p/unit that you put into your storage heaters,

That's not how it works AFAIK, the 43p is paid for generating it,
not
exporting it (there's a small additional payment for that), he
could
have solar powered 500W halogens lights in his garden and be paid
to
run them while the sun shines...

Yep.

The FIT is even more barking mad than it seems at first sight then.

Even more barking when you find out that if you don't have a fully
metered system you are deemed to export 50% of what you generate and
get the extra 3p/unit export rate for that 50%.

So you can use all the PV electricity lighting halogen lamps in your
back yard during the day and get paid the 43p/unit FiT for all those
units *and* extra 3p/unit of 50%.

Yes, but they are inventing a meter which measures how much you put back
in the grid so this last dodge will not be possible.
Labour invented the FIT scheme to encourage solar panels,
but left a few loopholes.
[george]- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Any meter will do this if connected with the current connections
reversed.

Import/export meters are already available anyway.
It's just not financially viable to fit one to small arrays.
If you had a larger array, one would be fitted.
am i right that a clamp meter like:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUTO-RANGI...item2569836f84
would tell me how much amps is flowing, but not be able to tell me
whether its coming into the house or going out.
[g]

On Feb 27, 3:53*pm, "george [dicegeorge]"
wrote:
On 27/02/12 07:46, harry wrote:



On Feb 26, 11:23 pm, "george
wrote:
On 26/02/12 22:22, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 21:39:14 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

Assuming you're on FIT, this is extremely expensive because you
will be losing 43p/unit that you put into your storage heaters,

That's not how it works AFAIK, the 43p is paid for generating it,
not
exporting it (there's a small additional payment for that), he
could
have solar powered 500W halogens lights in his garden and be paid
to
run them while the sun shines...

Yep.

The FIT is even more barking mad than it seems at first sight then.

Even more barking when you find out that if you don't have a fully
metered system you are deemed to export 50% of what you generate and
get the extra 3p/unit export rate for that 50%.

So you can use all the PV electricity lighting halogen lamps in your
back yard during the day and get paid the 43p/unit FiT for all those
units *and* extra 3p/unit of 50%.

Yes, but they are inventing a meter which measures how much you put back
in the grid so this last dodge will not be possible.
Labour invented the FIT scheme to encourage solar panels,
but left a few loopholes.
[george]- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Any meter will do this if connected with the current connections
reversed.

Import/export meters are already available anyway.
It's just not financially viable to fit one to small arrays.
If you had a larger array, one would be fitted.

am i right that a clamp meter like:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUTO-RANGI...TER-CLAMP-METE...
would tell me how much amps is flowing, but not be able to tell me
whether its coming into the house or going out.
[g]- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You are right.
http://www.electricity-monitor.com/e...itor-p-85.html

george [dicegeorge] wrote:

am i right that a clamp meter like:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUTO-RANGI...item2569836f84
would tell me how much amps is flowing, but not be able to tell me
whether its coming into the house or going out.
[g]

That is precisely why I posted in response to your question a few
days ago:

Get them to split the feed from the meter (via a Henley block) to
a separate consumer unit for the PV only. This means that you can
slip a monitor over the cable feeding only the main consumer
unit. Otherwise you cannot tell if you are consuming or exporting
until smart meters arrive.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 15:52:15 +0000, george [dicegeorge] wrote:

Certainly in the summer. If I'd installed PV I'd arange any
surplus
to be dumped into the thermal store rather than storeage heaters.
I'd
only actually export in extremis, like thermal store completely
heated to 90C+.

the storage heater is a thermal store isnt it?
[g]

Yeah but it only heats the room which you probably don't want in the
middle of summer. You still do have a requirement for hot water.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Feb 27, 6:39*pm, Chris J Dixon wrote:
george [dicegeorge] wrote:
am i right that a clamp meter like:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUTO-RANGI...TER-CLAMP-METE...
would tell me how much amps is flowing, but not be able to tell me
whether its coming into the house or going out.
[g]

That is precisely why I posted in response to your question a few
days ago:

Get them to split the feed from the meter (via a Henley block) to
a separate consumer unit for the PV only. This means that you can
slip a monitor over the cable feeding only the main consumer
unit. Otherwise you cannot tell if you are consuming or exporting
until smart meters arrive.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon *Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

Not neccessary . I constant red light comes up on the meter when power
is going the "wrong way". It flashes when power is going the "right"
way

On Feb 27, 6:39*pm, Chris J Dixon wrote:
george [dicegeorge] wrote:
am i right that a clamp meter like:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUTO-RANGI...TER-CLAMP-METE...
would tell me how much amps is flowing, but not be able to tell me
whether its coming into the house or going out.
[g]

That is precisely why I posted in response to your question a few
days ago:

Get them to split the feed from the meter (via a Henley block) to
a separate consumer unit for the PV only. This means that you can
slip a monitor over the cable feeding only the main consumer
unit. Otherwise you cannot tell if you are consuming or exporting
until smart meters arrive.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon *Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

The Inverter display tells you what you need to know. George wants a
device to switch stuff on/off as PV power is available.

harry wrote:

On Feb 27, 6:39*pm, Chris J Dixon wrote:
george [dicegeorge] wrote:
am i right that a clamp meter like:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUTO-RANGI...TER-CLAMP-METE...
would tell me how much amps is flowing, but not be able to tell me
whether its coming into the house or going out.
[g]

That is precisely why I posted in response to your question a few
days ago:

Get them to split the feed from the meter (via a Henley block) to
a separate consumer unit for the PV only. This means that you can
slip a monitor over the cable feeding only the main consumer
unit. Otherwise you cannot tell if you are consuming or exporting
until smart meters arrive.

The Inverter display tells you what you need to know. George wants a
device to switch stuff on/off as PV power is available.

The inverter only tells you what is being generated. George also
needs to know what is being consumed. Only if you know both can
you (or a box of electronics) decide if there is generation to
spare. If you have to spend anything significant to achieve this,
it is unlikely to be able to pay for itself.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

On 28/02/12 13:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Chris J Dixon wrote:
harry wrote:

On Feb 27, 6:39 pm, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Get them to split the feed from the meter (via a Henley block) to
a separate consumer unit for the PV only. This means that you can
slip a monitor over the cable feeding only the main consumer
unit. Otherwise you cannot tell if you are consuming or exporting
until smart meters arrive.

Not neccessary . I constant red light comes up on the meter when power
is going the "wrong way". It flashes when power is going the "right"
way

So, the sun is shining, the inverter shows 2 kW, and your red
light is flashing. Have you enough spare power to run the washing
machine? How much are you already using?
Load the machine, turn it on, return to the meters and the red
light has stopped flashing. Then what?


FOACS?

:-)
FOACS?

Focus on Acute Coronary Syndromes

?????

On Feb 28, 10:26*am, Chris J Dixon wrote:
harry wrote:
On Feb 27, 6:39*pm, Chris J Dixon wrote:
george [dicegeorge] wrote:
am i right that a clamp meter like:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUTO-RANGI...TER-CLAMP-METE....
would tell me how much amps is flowing, but not be able to tell me
whether its coming into the house or going out.
[g]

That is precisely why I posted in response to your question a few
days ago:

Get them to split the feed from the meter (via a Henley block) to
a separate consumer unit for the PV only. This means that you can
slip a monitor over the cable feeding only the main consumer
unit. Otherwise you cannot tell if you are consuming or exporting
until smart meters arrive.
The Inverter display tells you what you need to know. George wants a
device to switch stuff on/off as PV power is available.

The inverter only tells you what is being generated. George also
needs to know what is being consumed. Only if you know both can
you (or a box of electronics) decide if there is generation to
spare. If you have to spend anything significant to achieve this,
it is unlikely to be able to pay for itself.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon *Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, it's simpler to know what it is generating & then he can switch
in a similar sized load.

On Feb 28, 1:36*pm, Chris J Dixon wrote:
harry wrote:
On Feb 27, 6:39*pm, Chris J Dixon wrote:

Get them to split the feed from the meter (via a Henley block) to
a separate consumer unit for the PV only. This means that you can
slip a monitor over the cable feeding only the main consumer
unit. Otherwise you cannot tell if you are consuming or exporting
until smart meters arrive.

Not neccessary . I constant red light comes up on the meter when power
is going the "wrong way". It flashes when power is going the "right"
way

So, the sun is shining, the inverter shows 2 kW, and your red
light is flashing. Have you enough spare power to run the washing
machine? How much are you already using?

Load the machine, turn it on, return to the meters and the red
light has stopped flashing. Then what?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon *Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.


The important red light to watch is the one on the incoming mains
electricity. When that starts to flash, the meter is recording. You
are consuming mains power. When it is on constantly, you are
exporting.

The red light on the PV stays on at night and flashes by day.
One watt hour per flash.

george [dicegeorge] wrote:
On 28/02/12 13:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Chris J Dixon wrote:
harry wrote:

On Feb 27, 6:39 pm, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Get them to split the feed from the meter (via a Henley block) to
a separate consumer unit for the PV only. This means that you can
slip a monitor over the cable feeding only the main consumer
unit. Otherwise you cannot tell if you are consuming or exporting
until smart meters arrive.

Not neccessary . I constant red light comes up on the meter when power
is going the "wrong way". It flashes when power is going the "right"
way

So, the sun is shining, the inverter shows 2 kW, and your red
light is flashing. Have you enough spare power to run the washing
machine? How much are you already using?
Load the machine, turn it on, return to the meters and the red
light has stopped flashing. Then what?


FOACS?

:-)
FOACS?

Focus on Acute Coronary Syndromes

?????
**** of and commit suicide.

harry wrote:

On Feb 28, 10:26*am, Chris J Dixon wrote:
harry wrote:

The inverter only tells you what is being generated. George also
needs to know what is being consumed. Only if you know both can
you (or a box of electronics) decide if there is generation to
spare. If you have to spend anything significant to achieve this,
it is unlikely to be able to pay for itself.

Well, it's simpler to know what it is generating & then he can switch
in a similar sized load.

Simpler, if you say so, but wrong. If you ignore what is already
being consumed, you are rather missing the point.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

you need solar panels?

we can provide you the panels

And our Panel said, EE ork.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
wrote in message
...
you need solar panels?

we can provide you the panels