What king of device could turn on the power
to an electric storage heater
only when its sunny and my solar panels
are exporting energy to the grid?

[george]

george [dicegeorge] wrote:
What king of device could turn on the power
to an electric storage heater
only when its sunny and my solar panels
are exporting energy to the grid?

[george]

Try a Greene King

In article ,
"george [dicegeorge]" writes:
What king of device could turn on the power
to an electric storage heater
only when its sunny and my solar panels
are exporting energy to the grid?

Assuming you're on FIT, this is extremely expensive because you
will be losing 43p/unit that you put into your storage heaters,
but it will only cost you low rate (no idea, 6p/unit ?) to run
them at night on E7.

I know that sounds stupid, but it's because of the frigged solar
panel scheme - you are being paid much more for your solar energy
than it's worth. You need to minimize your own energy consumption
when the panels are generating, and try to use energy when they
aren't.

If you really want to heat the house using solar, you need to use
solar water heating into a thermal store. That way you are making
much more efficient use of the energy, because you aren't going
through the phase to convert it to electricity, which is very
inefficient in solar panels.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

"george writes:
What king of device could turn on the power
to an electric storage heater
only when its sunny and my solar panels
are exporting energy to the grid?

Assuming you're on FIT, this is extremely expensive because you
will be losing 43p/unit that you put into your storage heaters,

That's not how it works AFAIK, the 43p is paid for generating it, not
exporting it (there's a small additional payment for that), he could
have solar powered 500W halogens lights in his garden and be paid to run
them while the sun shines...

In article ,
Andy Burns writes:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

"george writes:
What king of device could turn on the power
to an electric storage heater
only when its sunny and my solar panels
are exporting energy to the grid?

Assuming you're on FIT, this is extremely expensive because you
will be losing 43p/unit that you put into your storage heaters,

That's not how it works AFAIK, the 43p is paid for generating it, not
exporting it (there's a small additional payment for that), he could
have solar powered 500W halogens lights in his garden and be paid to run
them while the sun shines...

Actually, I think you may be right..

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 26/02/2012 21:16, Andy Burns wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

"george writes:
What king of device could turn on the power
to an electric storage heater
only when its sunny and my solar panels
are exporting energy to the grid?

Assuming you're on FIT, this is extremely expensive because you
will be losing 43p/unit that you put into your storage heaters,

That's not how it works AFAIK, the 43p is paid for generating it, not
exporting it (there's a small additional payment for that), he could
have solar powered 500W halogens lights in his garden and be paid to run
them while the sun shines...

The FIT is even more barking mad than it seems at first sight then.

Using solar power to drive resistive electric storage heaters should
forfeit all FIT subsidies on the PV electricity used that way!

The daft government produced a system for PV that provides a perverse
incentive not to install the one sort of solar powered water heating kit
that does actually give a decent (well better) true ROI.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 21:39:14 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

Assuming you're on FIT, this is extremely expensive because you
will be losing 43p/unit that you put into your storage heaters,

That's not how it works AFAIK, the 43p is paid for generating it,
not
exporting it (there's a small additional payment for that), he
could
have solar powered 500W halogens lights in his garden and be paid
to
run them while the sun shines...

Yep.

The FIT is even more barking mad than it seems at first sight then.

Even more barking when you find out that if you don't have a fully
metered system you are deemed to export 50% of what you generate and
get the extra 3p/unit export rate for that 50%.

So you can use all the PV electricity lighting halogen lamps in your
back yard during the day and get paid the 43p/unit FiT for all those
units *and* extra 3p/unit of 50%.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 26/02/12 22:22, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 21:39:14 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

Assuming you're on FIT, this is extremely expensive because you
will be losing 43p/unit that you put into your storage heaters,

That's not how it works AFAIK, the 43p is paid for generating it,
not
exporting it (there's a small additional payment for that), he
could
have solar powered 500W halogens lights in his garden and be paid
to
run them while the sun shines...

Yep.

The FIT is even more barking mad than it seems at first sight then.

Even more barking when you find out that if you don't have a fully
metered system you are deemed to export 50% of what you generate and
get the extra 3p/unit export rate for that 50%.

So you can use all the PV electricity lighting halogen lamps in your
back yard during the day and get paid the 43p/unit FiT for all those
units *and* extra 3p/unit of 50%.


Yes, but they are inventing a meter which measures how much you put back
in the grid so this last dodge will not be possible.
Labour invented the FIT scheme to encourage solar panels,
but left a few loopholes.
[george]

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 22:22:54 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 21:39:14 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

Assuming you're on FIT, this is extremely expensive because you
will be losing 43p/unit that you put into your storage heaters,

That's not how it works AFAIK, the 43p is paid for generating it,
not
exporting it (there's a small additional payment for that), he
could
have solar powered 500W halogens lights in his garden and be paid
to
run them while the sun shines...

Yep.

The FIT is even more barking mad than it seems at first sight then.

Even more barking when you find out that if you don't have a fully
metered system you are deemed to export 50% of what you generate and
get the extra 3p/unit export rate for that 50%.

So you can use all the PV electricity lighting halogen lamps in your
back yard during the day and get paid the 43p/unit FiT for all those
units *and* extra 3p/unit of 50%.

You could also point the halogen lights at the solar panels and
'boost' the output.


--

On Feb 26, 9:39*pm, Martin Brown
wrote:
On 26/02/2012 21:16, Andy Burns wrote:

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

"george writes:
What king of device could turn on the power
to an electric storage heater
only when its sunny and my solar panels
are exporting energy to the grid?

Assuming you're on FIT, this is extremely expensive because you
will be losing 43p/unit that you put into your storage heaters,

That's not how it works AFAIK, the 43p is paid for generating it, not
exporting it (there's a small additional payment for that), he could
have solar powered 500W halogens lights in his garden and be paid to run
them while the sun shines...

The FIT is even more barking mad than it seems at first sight then.

Using solar power to drive resistive electric storage heaters should
forfeit all FIT subsidies on the PV electricity used that way!

The daft government produced a system for PV that provides a perverse
incentive not to install the one sort of solar powered water heating kit
that does actually give a decent (well better) true ROI.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

PV panels provide useful power when thermal panels won't.
They are less efficient but the energy they produce can be used for
anything and is more valuble.

On Feb 26, 9:07*pm, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,
* * * * "george [dicegeorge]" writes:

What king of device could turn on the power
to an electric storage heater
only when its sunny and my solar panels
are exporting energy to the grid?

Assuming you're on FIT, this is extremely expensive because you
will be losing 43p/unit that you put into your storage heaters,
but it will only cost you low rate (no idea, 6p/unit ?) to run
them at night on E7.

I know that sounds stupid, but it's because of the frigged solar
panel scheme - you are being paid much more for your solar energy
than it's worth. You need to minimize your own energy consumption
when the panels are generating, and try to use energy when they
aren't.

If you really want to heat the house using solar, you need to use
solar water heating into a thermal store. That way you are making
much more efficient use of the energy, because you aren't going
through the phase to convert it to electricity, which is very
inefficient in solar panels.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]


You get the £0.43 whether you export it or use it.

On Feb 26, 8:48*pm, "george [dicegeorge]"
wrote:
What king of device could turn on the power
to an electric storage heater
only when its sunny and my solar panels
are exporting energy to the grid?

[george]

Now you have found the problem of having the inverter in the loft, you
can't see what it's doing/generating on the display.

I think on a day when the sun is so strong, you won't need your
storage heaters anyway.

May be you could find a PV switch (outdoor lighting sort of thing)
that has sufficient adjustment range to be useful. Or maybe site it
indoors where light levels are reduced?
You would need a suitable relay to carry the load and reverse it's
action.

Then you have the problem of warming the heaters when there's no PV.

The problem with trying to reduce your electricity bills with PV is
that you have to be there to at PV max time (ie midday).
We are there & save around 25% off our bill.

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 23:40:56 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:

I think on a day when the sun is so strong, you won't need your
storage heaters anyway.

Certainly in the summer. If I'd installed PV I'd arange any surplus
to be dumped into the thermal store rather than storeage heaters. I'd
only actually export in extremis, like thermal store completely
heated to 90C+.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 27/02/12 09:14, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 23:40:56 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:

I think on a day when the sun is so strong, you won't need your
storage heaters anyway.

Certainly in the summer. If I'd installed PV I'd arange any surplus
to be dumped into the thermal store rather than storeage heaters. I'd
only actually export in extremis, like thermal store completely
heated to 90C+.

the storage heater is a thermal store isnt it?
[g]

On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 15:52:15 +0000, george [dicegeorge] wrote:

Certainly in the summer. If I'd installed PV I'd arange any
surplus
to be dumped into the thermal store rather than storeage heaters.
I'd
only actually export in extremis, like thermal store completely
heated to 90C+.

the storage heater is a thermal store isnt it?
[g]

Yeah but it only heats the room which you probably don't want in the
middle of summer. You still do have a requirement for hot water.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 20:48:15 +0000, "george [dicegeorge]"
wrote:

What king of device could turn on the power
to an electric storage heater
only when its sunny and my solar panels
are exporting energy to the grid?

[george]



http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/ind...board,7.0.html

Some people discussing same sort of thing on there
--
http://www.voucherfreebies.co.uk

you need solar panels?

we can provide you the panels

And our Panel said, EE ork.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
wrote in message
...
you need solar panels?

we can provide you the panels