Is there a simple way of fitting a door to an arched internal walkway?

I could probably use off the shelf items for the doors and straight
bits, but how would the frame be fitted to the arch? Is there a wood
that can be shaped to accomodate the door then soaked or steamed to
get it to follow the contour?

REgards

HN

On 2/25/2012 9:11 AM, H. Neary wrote:
Is there a simple way of fitting a door to an arched internal walkway?

I could probably use off the shelf items for the doors and straight
bits, but how would the frame be fitted to the arch? Is there a wood
that can be shaped to accomodate the door then soaked or steamed to
get it to follow the contour?

REgards

HN


If you are just going to paint the door frame rather than stain it to
match some other woodwork I would consider a form of plastic wood.
You can get composit plastic/wood combinations but an all plastic
material will bend better and if heated properly will take to the arch
with little trouble.

I know the following long url link is to a USA site but the info is
still valid. About half way down the page is some info about bending
the stuff.

http://americanwoodworker.com/blogs/...ic-lumber.aspx

Visit your local home center and see what they have to offer in this
kind of product. It sure beats laminating or multiple saw cuts until
you can bend "real" wood.

H. Neary wrote:
Is there a simple way of fitting a door to an arched internal walkway?

Yes, install a normal 'square' door frame and door, and block off the half
round bit above with whatever material you like, wood, plasterboard etc



I could probably use off the shelf items for the doors and straight
bits, but how would the frame be fitted to the arch? Is there a wood
that can be shaped to accomodate the door then soaked or steamed to
get it to follow the contour?

This would probably cost more and take longer than WW2

On Feb 25, 3:11*pm, H. Neary wrote:
Is there a simple way of fitting a door to an arched internal walkway?

I could probably use off the shelf items for the doors and straight
bits, but how would the frame be fitted to the arch? Is there a wood
that can be shaped to accomodate the door then soaked or steamed to
get it to follow the contour?

REgards

HN


There is no simple way. It is skilled work to make such a thing, hence
expensive.
A proper job is done on a specialist lathe that can handle large
diameters.
Often the headstock rotates 90deg from normal to get clearance.
It can be done by hand with spokeshaves etc but is very laborious.

On Feb 25, 5:14 pm, harry wrote:
On Feb 25, 3:11 pm, H. Neary wrote:

Is there a simple way of fitting a door to an arched internal walkway?

I could probably use off the shelf items for the doors and straight
bits, but how would the frame be fitted to the arch? Is there a wood
that can be shaped to accomodate the door then soaked or steamed to
get it to follow the contour?

REgards

HN

There is no simple way. It is skilled work to make such a thing, hence
expensive.
A proper job is done on a specialist lathe that can handle large
diameters.
Often the headstock rotates 90deg from normal to get clearance.
It can be done by hand with spokeshaves etc but is very laborious.


I machined up a 1/2 round moulded "fake" plant on window frame over
3ft diameter with a router secured to a workbench by a pivoted steel
"arm"

I can't see why that wouldn't work here if it is actually semi
circular.....

Jim K

On 25/02/2012 15:11, H. Neary wrote:
Is there a simple way of fitting a door to an arched internal walkway?

I could probably use off the shelf items for the doors and straight
bits, but how would the frame be fitted to the arch? Is there a wood
that can be shaped to accomodate the door then soaked or steamed to
get it to follow the contour?

I think we need a bit more info, and possibly a photo or two of what you
are trying to do. Obviously a rectangular door in a frame, with the
arched section simply filled is easy. However if you want a door with an
arched top, or an elegant arched glazed panel etc above the door then
that gets harder.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Quick & dirty way...
- Mitre cut 30-degree six pieces of 6x1" timber, fit on perfectly flat
base, glue end grain until they form a 180-degree arch. Repeat from
the OTHER side so the joints are offset (stretcher bond in brickwork
speak), glue & screw the front & back together.
- Clamp to a flat surface. Create a bar of steel to link a plunge
router to the centre of the arch. Sweep the router repeatedly
increasing the depth each time until you have a perfect arch.
- Waterproof glue is required, kiln dried timber joinery grade 4
(IIRC) a good idea.

Very slow way...
- Buy veneer of whatever you want. Create former for the arch, screwed
& glued layers of MDF. Fold veneer around arch, glue, repeat until a
sufficient large number of bent layers built up. Leave to set as long
as necessary.

The quick & dirty way works fine, I have seen it done in both UK &
USA. I suspect, however, in the USA that curved arches are available
readily if not quite off the shelf (California for one). If you do not
have a plunge router you could jigsaw (decent pendulum ideally), then
simply plane & sand into the desired shape. I have seen that done on a
UK porch arch, vastly cheaper than the several hundred some fool place
wanted for a steam bent frame and built up as a laminate with
waterproof glue it was immensely strong).

On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 12:01:58 -0800 (PST), "js.b1"
wrote:

Quick & dirty way...
- Mitre cut 30-degree six pieces of 6x1" timber, fit on perfectly flat
base, glue end grain until they form a 180-degree arch. Repeat from
the OTHER side so the joints are offset (stretcher bond in brickwork
speak), glue & screw the front & back together.
- Clamp to a flat surface. Create a bar of steel to link a plunge
router to the centre of the arch. Sweep the router repeatedly
increasing the depth each time until you have a perfect arch.
- Waterproof glue is required, kiln dried timber joinery grade 4
(IIRC) a good idea.

Very slow way...
- Buy veneer of whatever you want. Create former for the arch, screwed
& glued layers of MDF. Fold veneer around arch, glue, repeat until a
sufficient large number of bent layers built up. Leave to set as long
as necessary.

The quick & dirty way works fine, I have seen it done in both UK &
USA. I suspect, however, in the USA that curved arches are available
readily if not quite off the shelf (California for one). If you do not
have a plunge router you could jigsaw (decent pendulum ideally), then
simply plane & sand into the desired shape. I have seen that done on a
UK porch arch, vastly cheaper than the several hundred some fool place
wanted for a steam bent frame and built up as a laminate with
waterproof glue it was immensely strong).

Thank you. I never thought of this approach. It does give me the idea
that I might be able to cut and glue layers of MDF to fit the arch and
size the layers so that instead of fiddling about with a router I can
match the profile of the verticals of the frame, which I intend to buy
from Wickes.

I wouldn't bend the MDF to fit, I would just produce the arch from
many cut "U" shapes, like the spars of a boat all glued on top of one
another.


The only remaining problem will be the opening mechanism. The corridor
is too wide for one door, so I might have to go electrical as I havn't
seen anything on the market similar to the handle and rod arrangement
on two door electrical cabinets.

Many thanks

HN

On Feb 25, 3:11*pm, H. Neary wrote:
Is there a simple way of fitting a door to an arched internal walkway?

I could probably use off the shelf items for the doors and straight
bits, but how would the frame be fitted to the arch? Is there a wood
that can be shaped to accomodate the door then soaked or steamed to
get it to follow the contour?

REgards

HN

There are various ways to do it. One option would be to glue thin
plies of wood in situ. You'd need a router to finish it, or could
probably get away with a saw if you needed to.


NT

On Feb 25, 8:49 pm, H. Neary wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 12:01:58 -0800 (PST), "js.b1"
wrote:



Quick & dirty way...
- Mitre cut 30-degree six pieces of 6x1" timber, fit on perfectly flat
base, glue end grain until they form a 180-degree arch. Repeat from
the OTHER side so the joints are offset (stretcher bond in brickwork
speak), glue & screw the front & back together.
- Clamp to a flat surface. Create a bar of steel to link a plunge
router to the centre of the arch. Sweep the router repeatedly
increasing the depth each time until you have a perfect arch.
- Waterproof glue is required, kiln dried timber joinery grade 4
(IIRC) a good idea.

Very slow way...
- Buy veneer of whatever you want. Create former for the arch, screwed
& glued layers of MDF. Fold veneer around arch, glue, repeat until a
sufficient large number of bent layers built up. Leave to set as long
as necessary.

The quick & dirty way works fine, I have seen it done in both UK &
USA. I suspect, however, in the USA that curved arches are available
readily if not quite off the shelf (California for one). If you do not
have a plunge router you could jigsaw (decent pendulum ideally), then
simply plane & sand into the desired shape. I have seen that done on a
UK porch arch, vastly cheaper than the several hundred some fool place
wanted for a steam bent frame and built up as a laminate with
waterproof glue it was immensely strong).

Thank you. I never thought of this approach. It does give me the idea
that I might be able to cut and glue layers of MDF to fit the arch and
size the layers so that instead of fiddling about with a router I can
match the profile of the verticals of the frame, which I intend to buy
from Wickes.

I wouldn't bend the MDF to fit, I would just produce the arch from
many cut "U" shapes, like the spars of a boat all glued on top of one
another.

The only remaining problem will be the opening mechanism. The corridor
is too wide for one door, so I might have to go electrical

???? this is getting surreal ;)

as I havn't
seen anything on the market similar to the handle and rod arrangement
on two door electrical cabinets.

???
erm multipoint lock kits? router dooor edge to fit and then shoot
bolts top and bottom are possible? tho will they have your size??

On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 15:01:00 -0800 (PST), Jim K
wrote:

On Feb 25, 8:49 pm, H. Neary wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 12:01:58 -0800 (PST), "js.b1"
wrote:



Quick & dirty way...
- Mitre cut 30-degree six pieces of 6x1" timber, fit on perfectly flat
base, glue end grain until they form a 180-degree arch. Repeat from
the OTHER side so the joints are offset (stretcher bond in brickwork
speak), glue & screw the front & back together.
- Clamp to a flat surface. Create a bar of steel to link a plunge
router to the centre of the arch. Sweep the router repeatedly
increasing the depth each time until you have a perfect arch.
- Waterproof glue is required, kiln dried timber joinery grade 4
(IIRC) a good idea.

Very slow way...
- Buy veneer of whatever you want. Create former for the arch, screwed
& glued layers of MDF. Fold veneer around arch, glue, repeat until a
sufficient large number of bent layers built up. Leave to set as long
as necessary.

The quick & dirty way works fine, I have seen it done in both UK &
USA. I suspect, however, in the USA that curved arches are available
readily if not quite off the shelf (California for one). If you do not
have a plunge router you could jigsaw (decent pendulum ideally), then
simply plane & sand into the desired shape. I have seen that done on a
UK porch arch, vastly cheaper than the several hundred some fool place
wanted for a steam bent frame and built up as a laminate with
waterproof glue it was immensely strong).

Thank you. I never thought of this approach. It does give me the idea
that I might be able to cut and glue layers of MDF to fit the arch and
size the layers so that instead of fiddling about with a router I can
match the profile of the verticals of the frame, which I intend to buy
from Wickes.

I wouldn't bend the MDF to fit, I would just produce the arch from
many cut "U" shapes, like the spars of a boat all glued on top of one
another.

The only remaining problem will be the opening mechanism. The corridor
is too wide for one door, so I might have to go electrical

???? this is getting surreal ;)

as I havn't
seen anything on the market similar to the handle and rod arrangement
on two door electrical cabinets.

???
erm multipoint lock kits? router dooor edge to fit and then shoot
bolts top and bottom are possible? tho will they have your size??

I do not want to use individual bolts as it is an interior door.

I'm not sure what is available but with no central post, I would only
have the doorframe on the floor and ceiling to lock into.

I have never seen intereor double doors use anything but bolts in one
or both doors.

Control panels use a simple handle arrangement with a rod extending
through the top and bottom of the door to extend through to the frame.
If this is available I would probably use something like it, although
supporting it within the door may be problematical.

A simple alternative is four solenoids. A hole in the frame top and
bottom for each door. Four sprung solenoids and a couple of switches
either on the doors or on the wall either side.

As I intend to use Wickes ply and cardboard doors, it's probably
better to keep the work on them to a minimum. Even if I had a router I
suspect I would only end up with a "snowstorm" if I tried to shape any
part of them.


HN

On Feb 26, 12:38 am, H. Neary wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 15:01:00 -0800 (PST), Jim K
wrote:



On Feb 25, 8:49 pm, H. Neary wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 12:01:58 -0800 (PST), "js.b1"
wrote:

Quick & dirty way...
- Mitre cut 30-degree six pieces of 6x1" timber, fit on perfectly flat
base, glue end grain until they form a 180-degree arch. Repeat from
the OTHER side so the joints are offset (stretcher bond in brickwork
speak), glue & screw the front & back together.
- Clamp to a flat surface. Create a bar of steel to link a plunge
router to the centre of the arch. Sweep the router repeatedly
increasing the depth each time until you have a perfect arch.
- Waterproof glue is required, kiln dried timber joinery grade 4
(IIRC) a good idea.

Very slow way...
- Buy veneer of whatever you want. Create former for the arch, screwed
& glued layers of MDF. Fold veneer around arch, glue, repeat until a
sufficient large number of bent layers built up. Leave to set as long
as necessary.

The quick & dirty way works fine, I have seen it done in both UK &
USA. I suspect, however, in the USA that curved arches are available
readily if not quite off the shelf (California for one). If you do not
have a plunge router you could jigsaw (decent pendulum ideally), then
simply plane & sand into the desired shape. I have seen that done on a
UK porch arch, vastly cheaper than the several hundred some fool place
wanted for a steam bent frame and built up as a laminate with
waterproof glue it was immensely strong).

Thank you. I never thought of this approach. It does give me the idea
that I might be able to cut and glue layers of MDF to fit the arch and
size the layers so that instead of fiddling about with a router I can
match the profile of the verticals of the frame, which I intend to buy
from Wickes.

I wouldn't bend the MDF to fit, I would just produce the arch from
many cut "U" shapes, like the spars of a boat all glued on top of one
another.

The only remaining problem will be the opening mechanism. The corridor
is too wide for one door, so I might have to go electrical

???? this is getting surreal ;)

as I havn't
seen anything on the market similar to the handle and rod arrangement
on two door electrical cabinets.

???
erm multipoint lock kits? router dooor edge to fit and then shoot
bolts top and bottom are possible? tho will they have your size??

I do not want to use individual bolts as it is an interior door.

I'm not sure what is available but with no central post, I would only
have the doorframe on the floor and ceiling to lock into.

I have never seen intereor double doors use anything but bolts in one
or both doors.

http://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/P...es/Flush_Bolts

Jim K

On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 16:59:00 -0800 (PST), Jim K
wrote:

On Feb 26, 12:38 am, H. Neary wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 15:01:00 -0800 (PST), Jim K
wrote:



On Feb 25, 8:49 pm, H. Neary wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 12:01:58 -0800 (PST), "js.b1"
wrote:

Quick & dirty way...
- Mitre cut 30-degree six pieces of 6x1" timber, fit on perfectly flat
base, glue end grain until they form a 180-degree arch. Repeat from
the OTHER side so the joints are offset (stretcher bond in brickwork
speak), glue & screw the front & back together.
- Clamp to a flat surface. Create a bar of steel to link a plunge
router to the centre of the arch. Sweep the router repeatedly
increasing the depth each time until you have a perfect arch.
- Waterproof glue is required, kiln dried timber joinery grade 4
(IIRC) a good idea.

Very slow way...
- Buy veneer of whatever you want. Create former for the arch, screwed
& glued layers of MDF. Fold veneer around arch, glue, repeat until a
sufficient large number of bent layers built up. Leave to set as long
as necessary.

The quick & dirty way works fine, I have seen it done in both UK &
USA. I suspect, however, in the USA that curved arches are available
readily if not quite off the shelf (California for one). If you do not
have a plunge router you could jigsaw (decent pendulum ideally), then
simply plane & sand into the desired shape. I have seen that done on a
UK porch arch, vastly cheaper than the several hundred some fool place
wanted for a steam bent frame and built up as a laminate with
waterproof glue it was immensely strong).

Thank you. I never thought of this approach. It does give me the idea
that I might be able to cut and glue layers of MDF to fit the arch and
size the layers so that instead of fiddling about with a router I can
match the profile of the verticals of the frame, which I intend to buy
from Wickes.

I wouldn't bend the MDF to fit, I would just produce the arch from
many cut "U" shapes, like the spars of a boat all glued on top of one
another.

The only remaining problem will be the opening mechanism. The corridor
is too wide for one door, so I might have to go electrical

???? this is getting surreal ;)

as I havn't
seen anything on the market similar to the handle and rod arrangement
on two door electrical cabinets.

???
erm multipoint lock kits? router dooor edge to fit and then shoot
bolts top and bottom are possible? tho will they have your size??

I do not want to use individual bolts as it is an interior door.

I'm not sure what is available but with no central post, I would only
have the doorframe on the floor and ceiling to lock into.

I have never seen intereor double doors use anything but bolts in one
or both doors.

http://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/P...es/Flush_Bolts

Jim K

Thank you.

I thought you meant those actually.

Now in my dim & distant youth, they would have been fine. Even now the
top one's would be O/K.

But even with the Co Codamol I would have difficulty operating the
floor bolts on a day to day basis.

I appreciate the catalogue page incidentally. We have a copy of that
book at work and I had forgot about it completely. I think the floor
bolt receptacles would do excellent service fitted in the doors
themselves. I'll dig the thing out Monday and see if it brings on
inspiration.

Again Thanks Jim,

Much appreciated.

HN

On Feb 26, 1:20*am, H. Neary wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 16:59:00 -0800 (PST), Jim K
wrote:



On Feb 26, 12:38 am, H. Neary wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 15:01:00 -0800 (PST), Jim K
wrote:

On Feb 25, 8:49 pm, H. Neary wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 12:01:58 -0800 (PST), "js.b1"
wrote:

Quick & dirty way...
- Mitre cut 30-degree six pieces of 6x1" timber, fit on perfectly flat
base, glue end grain until they form a 180-degree arch. Repeat from
the OTHER side so the joints are offset (stretcher bond in brickwork
speak), glue & screw the front & back together.
- Clamp to a flat surface. Create a bar of steel to link a plunge
router to the centre of the arch. Sweep the router repeatedly
increasing the depth each time until you have a perfect arch.
- Waterproof glue is required, kiln dried timber joinery grade 4
(IIRC) a good idea.

Very slow way...
- Buy veneer of whatever you want. Create former for the arch, screwed
& glued layers of MDF. Fold veneer around arch, glue, repeat until a
sufficient large number of bent layers built up. Leave to set as long
as necessary.

The quick & dirty way works fine, I have seen it done in both UK &
USA. I suspect, however, in the USA that curved arches are available
readily if not quite off the shelf (California for one). If you do not
have a plunge router you could jigsaw (decent pendulum ideally), then
simply plane & sand into the desired shape. I have seen that done on a
UK porch arch, vastly cheaper than the several hundred some fool place
wanted for a steam bent frame and built up as a laminate with
waterproof glue it was immensely strong).

Thank you. I never thought of this approach. It does give me the idea
that I might be able to cut and glue layers of MDF to fit the arch and
size the layers so that instead of fiddling about with a router I can
match the profile of the verticals of the frame, which I intend to buy
from Wickes.

I wouldn't bend the MDF to fit, I would just produce the arch from
many cut "U" shapes, like the spars of a boat all glued on top of one
another.

The only remaining problem will be the opening mechanism. The corridor
is too wide for one door, so I might have to go electrical

???? this is getting surreal ;)

as I havn't
seen anything on the market similar to the handle and rod arrangement
on two door electrical cabinets.

???
erm multipoint lock kits? router dooor edge to fit and then shoot
bolts top and bottom are possible? tho will they have your size??

I do not want to use individual bolts as it is an interior door.

I'm not sure what is available but with no central post, I would only
have the doorframe on the floor and ceiling to lock into.

I have never seen intereor double doors use anything but bolts in one
or both doors.

http://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/P..._and_Accessori...

Jim K

Thank you.

I thought you meant those actually.

Now in my dim & distant youth, they would have been fine. Even now the
top one's would be O/K.

But even with the Co Codamol I would have difficulty operating the
floor bolts on a day to day basis.

I appreciate the catalogue page incidentally. We have a copy of that
book at work and I had forgot about it completely. I think the floor
bolt receptacles would do excellent service fitted in the doors
themselves. I'll dig the thing out Monday and see if it brings on
inspiration.

Again Thanks Jim,

Much appreciated.

HN

So you want to go to the trouble of making a fancy arch, but are going
to do it with junk mdf, and fit it with junk cardboard doors that you
cant attach a proper mechanism to. I'd get real wood doors, and fit a
handle that operates top and bottom bolts at once. Or for effect you
could even make an oversize wooden one and surface mount it.


NT

On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 12:01:58 -0800 (PST), "js.b1" wrote:

Very slow way...
- Buy veneer of whatever you want. Create former for the arch, screwed
& glued layers of MDF. Fold veneer around arch, glue, repeat until a
sufficient large number of bent layers built up. Leave to set as long
as necessary.

Seen that done just that way -- only not veneer, but strips of wood maybe 3-4 mm
thick. Glue, then even up the thickness on a table saw. Glueing is less work
than it sounds...

(And then run the atched strip over a shaper head with a ball bearing ring to
cut the rebate. Serious tools, and seriously scary...)


Thomas Prufer