"www.GymRatZ.co.uk" wrote in message
...
On 22/02/2012 10:17, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17107715

Pollution free at use vehicles. Fantastic. We need them everywhere.

Unfortunately apart from the bicycle they don't exist.
My take on these matters is that they simply offload your polution to
somone elses part of the country/world and rape other countries
recources and materials because the users are happy to pay through the
nose for the "feel good" factor.

YMMV.... (but you won't do many befre needing a 12 hour recharge..

Bicycles might be pollution free but what about the high carb eaters that
pedal them?.... Farts galore FFS !

Nthkentman wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17107715

Does that make the many councils and sub-contractors using EV
knobheads as well? Several major sub-contract companies I go to have
EV for transport and tasks up to 3.5 tonnes. Very useful they are too.

If the EV van is so good why does their vehicle has to be subsidised?

Does that make milk floats which have been utilising batteries for
decades to lower noise when delivering early in the morning, keep
costs lower and provide services otherwise not available to elderly
or sick people knobheads too?

I thought that milkmen only provided a special delivery for young widows and
bored housewifes.

A milk float is a machine designed for a specific purpose. It worked well.

Does it make the people living in the cities that benefit from all the
concessions provided for EVs knobheads?

Why do EV van/car drivers have concessions?

No, it's just people like you that provide links and derogatory
statements about technology you know little about because it doesn't
fit into your "Good old days" attitude lifestyle that are..

Let's charge that EV van/car up overnight with some PV arrays.

Perhaps the apprentices assisting the companies building them should
be shouted at more often, or sacked for not clearing the snow in the
car park so you can park your gas guzzler and given a thick ear to
remind them who's the boss eh.....

I'm the boss. That's how things in the real world world. Perhaps they should
be allowed to do what they want?

Luddite
Do keep up at the back, there's a good chap

I'm all for new technology. I am not happy about paying people for doing
**** all other than pretending to be green.


--
Adam

harry wrote:


If I had one I could charge it up off my PVpanel. That would be
green.

Bwhaha!

You wouldnt even get out of the drive in winter before it was flat.



But at that price to be used twice a week, I don't think so.

harry wrote:
On Feb 22, 11:16 am, Lee wrote:
On 22/02/2012 09:42, tony sayer wrote:

But there are still serious problems with implementing these the main
one is the primary power system. Batteries, unless someone does invent
one that is neigh on 100% efficient and has much greater capacity and
costs and weighs sod all, will always be their great limitation.
There is another problem here, namely that if a much higher density
portable energy solution was developed it would have too much potential
to be "unsafe".
Whether deliberately or not.

There is other technology on the horizon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_capacitor

Instant charging is possible.
sigh. Yio really are an idiot aren't you? NOW LOOK at waht ACTUAL
capacities 'supercapacitors' achieve and how the voltage tapers off from
where it starts to sod all and work out WHY they will never power cars.

In message , ARWadsworth
writes
Steve Firth wrote:
"Robin" wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17107715

If I were still working/commuting I'd be tempted because of the
exemption from the London Congestion Charge for wholly electric
vehicles, together with free parking in Westminster, the City and
Camden. I suspect many of the 892 are people gaming those systems.

My off-roader is congestion charge exempt. It has a range of 700
miles and can tackle driving across Europe within a day and a half.
Which electric vehicle should I be looking at?

One with a 700 mile extension lead?

But not a 699 mile, 4095 feet, 11.4 inches long, though

(0.6" being ~1.5cm)
--
geoff

On Feb 22, 11:51*am, Steve Firth wrote:
"Robin" wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17107715

If I were still working/commuting I'd be tempted because of the
exemption from the London Congestion Charge for wholly electric
vehicles, together *with free parking in Westminster, the City and
Camden. *I suspect many of the 892 are people gaming those systems.

My off-roader is congestion charge exempt. It has a range of 700 miles and
can tackle driving across Europe within a day and a half. Which electric
vehicle should I be looking at?

700 miles in the real world, or descending a 700 mile high mountain?


NT

On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 03:20:52 -0800, Man at B&Q wrote:

On Feb 22, 11:16Â*am, Lee wrote:
On 22/02/2012 09:42, tony sayer wrote:

But there are still serious problems with implementing these the main
one is the primary power system. Batteries, unless someone does
invent one that is neigh on 100% efficient and has much greater
capacity and costs and weighs sod all, will always be their great
limitation.

There is another problem here, namely that if a much higher density
portable energy solution was developed it would have too much potential
to be "unsafe".
Whether deliberately or not.

knobheads++

You mean like a tankful of petrol or diesel?

MBQ


Have you ever tried setting fire to diesel? It's almost impossible to do
by throwing lit fag ends and freshly struck matches into a tank of it.
They just go out. It won't burn until it's vapourised. Not recommended
that you try this with petrol though...

--
Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web: http://www.nascom.info
Filtering everything posted from googlegroups to kill spam.

mick wrote:



Have you ever tried setting fire to diesel? It's almost impossible to do
by throwing lit fag ends and freshly struck matches into a tank of it.
They just go out. It won't burn until it's vapourised. Not recommended
that you try this with petrol though...

Actually, you can stub out a cigarette in petrol. Throwing a lighted match
in petrol isn't recommended though if you're *not* expecting it to light.
;-)

Tim

Tim wrote:
mick wrote:


Have you ever tried setting fire to diesel? It's almost impossible to do
by throwing lit fag ends and freshly struck matches into a tank of it.
They just go out. It won't burn until it's vapourised. Not recommended
that you try this with petrol though...

Actually, you can stub out a cigarette in petrol. Throwing a lighted match
in petrol isn't recommended though if you're *not* expecting it to light.
;-)

Tim
LIQUID petrol goes out, but petrol VAPOUR makes a nice fuel-air bomb.

I (almost) have the scars to show for that. Luckily I got the whole area
covered in cold water in seconds, and it only needed one A & R visit to
put on plastic skin...

On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 13:05:43 -0800 (PST), NT wrote:

700 miles in the real world, or descending a 700 mile high mountain?

My car has a 600 mile real world range brim to running on vapour.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 21:34:38 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
One with a 700 mile extension lead?

But not a 699 mile, 4095 feet, 11.4 inches long, though

(0.6" being ~1.5cm)

What's 4096 ft?

1.2484608 km?

On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 22:10:04 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Tim wrote:
mick wrote:


Have you ever tried setting fire to diesel? It's almost impossible to
do by throwing lit fag ends and freshly struck matches into a tank of
it. They just go out. It won't burn until it's vapourised. Not
recommended that you try this with petrol though...

Actually, you can stub out a cigarette in petrol. Throwing a lighted
match in petrol isn't recommended though if you're *not* expecting it
to light. ;-)

Tim
LIQUID petrol goes out, but petrol VAPOUR makes a nice fuel-air bomb.

I (almost) have the scars to show for that. Luckily I got the whole area
covered in cold water in seconds, and it only needed one A & R visit to
put on plastic skin...

Musical plastic???



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

In message , Tim
Streater writes
In article , geoff
wrote:

In message , ARWadsworth
writes
Steve Firth wrote:
"Robin" wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17107715

If I were still working/commuting I'd be tempted because of the
exemption from the London Congestion Charge for wholly electric
vehicles, together with free parking in Westminster, the City and
Camden. I suspect many of the 892 are people gaming those systems.

My off-roader is congestion charge exempt. It has a range of 700
miles and can tackle driving across Europe within a day and a half.
Which electric vehicle should I be looking at?

One with a 700 mile extension lead?

But not a 699 mile, 4095 feet, 11.4 inches long, though
(0.6" being ~1.5cm)

What's 4096 ft?

Bugger, I meant 5279

there goes the imperial system

yeah. What is 4096?

--
geoff

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
Tim wrote:
mick wrote:


Have you ever tried setting fire to diesel? It's almost impossible
to do by throwing lit fag ends and freshly struck matches into a
tank of it. They just go out. It won't burn until it's vapourised.
Not recommended that you try this with petrol though...
Actually, you can stub out a cigarette in petrol. Throwing a lighted
match
in petrol isn't recommended though if you're *not* expecting it to light.
;-)
Tim
LIQUID petrol goes out, but petrol VAPOUR makes a nice fuel-air bomb.

I (almost) have the scars to show for that. Luckily I got the whole
area covered in cold water in seconds, and it only needed one A & R
visit to put on plastic skin...


That must be a record ...

--
geoff

In message
,
harry writes
On Feb 22, 11:16*am, Lee wrote:
On 22/02/2012 09:42, tony sayer wrote:

But there are still serious problems with implementing these the main
one is the primary power system. Batteries, unless someone does invent
one that is neigh on 100% efficient and has much greater capacity and
costs and weighs sod all, will always be their great limitation.

There is another problem here, namely that if a much higher density
portable energy solution was developed it would have too much potential
to be "unsafe".
Whether deliberately or not.

There is other technology on the horizon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_capacitor

Instant charging is possible.

Oh dear harry, you really don't know when to let people think you are an
idiot rather than prove it time and again


--
geoff

In message , Doctor Drivel
writes

"Nthkentman" wrote in message
...

Does it make the people living in the cities that benefit from all
the concessions provided for EVs knobheads?

I always wonder at the mentality of those who deride pollution free
vehicles and still think that choking, smoking diesels are OK and we
should have more of them and kill ourselves quicker.

OMG drivel and Harry - the new laurel and hardy

they are not pollution free, you are merely shifting the pollution to
where its not seen



--
geoff

On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 22:10:04 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

LIQUID petrol goes out, but petrol VAPOUR makes a nice fuel-air bomb.

I (almost) have the scars to show for that.

I only lost a bit of hair and singed my eyebrows. And it was only a
desert spoonful of petrol I had put on camp fire to start it. Vivid
memory of WOOMPH and the entire fire lifting off the ground a few
inches and settling back down when I applied a lit match.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article ,
Paul Herber wrote:
But in any case a very specialist application. Travels a short distance
with many start/stops. No other deliveries has the same pattern.

Post (well, 90% of local deliveries/collections)

They walk.

Meter readers

So do they.

--
*A clear conscience is the sign of a fuzzy memory.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article m,
mick wrote:
Have you ever tried setting fire to diesel? It's almost impossible to do
by throwing lit fag ends and freshly struck matches into a tank of it.
They just go out. It won't burn until it's vapourised. Not recommended
that you try this with petrol though...

You can certainly throw a lit fag into petrol. Not a match, though.

--
*Re-elect nobody

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 22:58:50 +0000, geoff wrote:

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
Tim wrote:
mick wrote:


Have you ever tried setting fire to diesel? It's almost impossible
to do by throwing lit fag ends and freshly struck matches into a tank
of it. They just go out. It won't burn until it's vapourised. Not
recommended that you try this with petrol though...
Actually, you can stub out a cigarette in petrol. Throwing a lighted
match
in petrol isn't recommended though if you're *not* expecting it to
light. ;-)
Tim
LIQUID petrol goes out, but petrol VAPOUR makes a nice fuel-air bomb.

I (almost) have the scars to show for that. Luckily I got the whole area
covered in cold water in seconds, and it only needed one A & R visit to
put on plastic skin...


That must be a record ...

LOL! Better than my comment...



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

geoff wrote:
In message , Doctor Drivel
writes

"Nthkentman" wrote in message
...

Does it make the people living in the cities that benefit from all
the concessions provided for EVs knobheads?

I always wonder at the mentality of those who deride pollution free
vehicles and still think that choking, smoking diesels are OK and we
should have more of them and kill ourselves quicker.

OMG drivel and Harry - the new laurel and hardy

add in thirty six and you have the Marx brothers.


they are not pollution free, you are merely shifting the pollution to
where its not seen

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Paul Herber wrote:
But in any case a very specialist application. Travels a short distance
with many start/stops. No other deliveries has the same pattern.

Post (well, 90% of local deliveries/collections)

They walk.

Meter readers

So do they.

Mine doesn't. Comes in a little EON van..

On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 23:28:42 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

But in any case a very specialist application. Travels a short
distance with many start/stops. No other deliveries has the same

pattern.

Post (well, 90% of local deliveries/collections)

They walk.

Not here, little Red Van. They do walk around the town between the
drop off boxes.

Meter readers

So do they.

Mine doesn't. Comes in a little EON van..

Aye, in fact we get two lots of meter readers as we buy power from
two different companies. Both come in little vans. Becasue of this
I'm not sure how much walking a meter reader would do these days.
It's not like it was when everyone had no choice but to buy from the
REC.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:

we get two lots of meter readers as we buy power from
two different companies. Both come in little vans. Becasue of this
I'm not sure how much walking a meter reader would do these days.
It's not like it was when everyone had no choice but to buy from the
REC.

Round here it all seems outsourced to Siemens Metering Services ...

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 22:58:50 +0000, geoff wrote:

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
Tim wrote:
mick wrote:


Have you ever tried setting fire to diesel? It's almost impossible
to do by throwing lit fag ends and freshly struck matches into a tank
of it. They just go out. It won't burn until it's vapourised. Not
recommended that you try this with petrol though...
Actually, you can stub out a cigarette in petrol. Throwing a lighted
match
in petrol isn't recommended though if you're *not* expecting it to
light. ;-)
Tim
LIQUID petrol goes out, but petrol VAPOUR makes a nice fuel-air bomb.

I (almost) have the scars to show for that. Luckily I got the whole area
covered in cold water in seconds, and it only needed one A & R visit to
put on plastic skin...


That must be a record ...

LOL! Better than my comment...

I got it, honest I did

tony sayer wrote:
In , Doctor Drivel
scribeth thus
"tony wrote in message
...

But there are still serious problems with implementing these the main
one is the primary power system. Batteries, unless someone does invent
one that is neigh on 100% efficient and has much greater capacity and
costs and weighs sod all, will always be their great limitation.

Oh my God!!

An EV is fine for 90% of "all" car trips made per year - fine for 100% of
trips only in towns and cities. It is the odd long trips, which overall in
a country is small, which requires some focus - and this keeps advancements
down. The "poor" range extender in the Volt is giving a claimed ~60mpg with
the car not running on the battery. So not bad. The Russian rotary vane
engine range extender offers far more.

So what are all those motahs doing on the A14 earlier, just tootling
from one village to the other?..

I've been on a 120 mile round trip today I might end up doing that again
or more next week. I might not go anywhere the week after ...

A car that is only capable of some 60 miles range without recharge is
about as useful as tits on a bull.

I rather expect that is the Case with a lot of other vehicle users...



Note below, "90% charge in less than 5 minutes".

http://www.toshiba.com/ind/data/news/news_241.pdf
Toshiba International Corporation, January 27, 2010 - Toshiba proudly
announces that it has established US-based sales and technical support for
its new product, the Super Charge Ion Battery, SCiBT. This nano-based
breakthrough lithium technology is noted for its rapid charging capability
of 90% charge in less than 5 minutes, long life of more than 10 years even
at rapid charge rates, and excellent safety performance. The SCiBT product
line will be supported out of the Toshiba International Corporation
headquarters in Houston, Texas and the SCiBT team will focus on business
development activities, battery pack design, prototyping, assembly,
technical support, and service.

The SCiBT battery technology offers numerous performance advantages that
make it an ideal solution for many of today's toughest energy storage
challenges.


Right so what power can that store then compared to a conventional
battery and if so is it cost effective for a motor vehicle application
giving say a "useful" capacity and range?. I'd like a range of say 400
odd miles on a tankful or charge...

So would I on my petrol car.




The secret is brake regen and supercapacitors/efficient batteries. The new
Russian hybrid using the rotary vane engines range extender uses
supercapacitors.

Well if your going to add in another engine why bother with all the
electric traction?..


Compressed air brake regen would have been feasible, and
air is free, but R&D in supercapacitors and batteries may have pushed air
into the background for now.


Regen?, Perhaps some use around town for a Taxi but on a Motorway at
around the 70 limit?. Doesn't seem that practical..


To hear misguided politicos wittering on about "non polluting" when the
power is in the main supplied by coal and gas, the power generated
conversion a not to high percentage, and then transmitted and stored
with yet another conversion does indeed deserve the worthy comment Knob
head...

Coal smoke stacks can be controlled.


Gas is very clean.

Except you might have missed it that it wasn't that much spare in supply
around a week or so ago. Not too practical is it..

So, 40% efficient
from power station to socket. 80^ of the energy in cars tank is wasted, so
20% efficient.

Really, as low as that?..

A battery wastes only 10% at most so 90% plus efficient. It
does not take much maths to see the EV is more energy efficient from station
generator to EVs wheels - as it stands RIGHT NOW !!!!

Even if that is right where are we going to get all this extra energy
from?..

Clean up the towns and cities and its cascades to all over.

Yes so why aren't we doing that right now with electric vehicles?..

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Paul Herber wrote:
But in any case a very specialist application. Travels a short distance
with many start/stops. No other deliveries has the same pattern.

Post (well, 90% of local deliveries/collections)

They walk.

Meter readers

So do they.

Mine doesn't. Comes in a little EON van..

You live in a large town where an electric vehicle would make sense for
stop start work? As a milk float does?

BTW, what does a meter reader carry that he needs a van?

--
*Failure is not an option. It's bundled with your software.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 23:28:42 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

But in any case a very specialist application. Travels a short
distance with many start/stops. No other deliveries has the same

pattern.

Post (well, 90% of local deliveries/collections)

They walk.

Not here, little Red Van. They do walk around the town between the
drop off boxes.

It was towns we were discussing. As in using electric vans for deliveries,
etc. All the posties here walk. Pushing a little red trolley.

Meter readers

So do they.

Mine doesn't. Comes in a little EON van..

Aye, in fact we get two lots of meter readers as we buy power from
two different companies. Both come in little vans. Becasue of this
I'm not sure how much walking a meter reader would do these days.
It's not like it was when everyone had no choice but to buy from the
REC.

In the average town he'd spend more time trying to find a parking space. A
motor bike etc would make mores sense than a van there if they don't have
many customers close together.

--
*What are the pink bits in my tyres? Cyclists & Joggers*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Feb 22, 11:00*pm, geoff wrote:
In message
,
harry writes





On Feb 22, 11:16*am, Lee wrote:
On 22/02/2012 09:42, tony sayer wrote:

But there are still serious problems with implementing these the main
one is the primary power system. Batteries, unless someone does invent
one that is neigh on 100% efficient and has much greater capacity and
costs and weighs sod all, will always be their great limitation.

There is another problem here, namely that if a much higher density
portable energy solution was developed it would have too much potential
to be "unsafe".
Whether deliberately or not.

There is other technology on the horizon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_capacitor

Instant charging is possible.

Oh dear harry, you really don't know when to let people think you are an
idiot rather than prove it time and again


It's you that's an idiot.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/.../t-177843.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_capacitor#Advantages

On Feb 22, 11:55*pm, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 23:28:42 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
But in any case a very specialist application. Travels a short
distance with many start/stops. No other deliveries has the same
pattern.

Post (well, 90% of local deliveries/collections)

They walk.

Not here, little Red Van. They do walk around the town between the
drop off boxes.

Meter readers

So do they.

Mine doesn't. Comes in a little EON van..

Aye, in fact we get two lots of meter readers as we buy power from
two different companies. Both come in little vans. Becasue of this
I'm not sure how much walking a meter reader would do these days.
It's not like it was when everyone had no choice but to buy from the
REC.

--
Cheers
Dave.

You will save money if you open an internet account.
I read my own meter and notify by internet.
Emails tells me when to read & what I own.
Paymentby CC over the telephone.

I see a meter reader every five years or so.

On Feb 22, 7:45*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
harry wrote:

If I had one I could charge it up off my PVpanel. *That would be
green.

Bwhaha!

You wouldnt even get out of the drive in winter before it was flat.



But at that price to be used twice a week, I don't think so.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Dependson the weather. the PV ismore efficient when cold. I only use
my car once a week.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim wrote:
mick wrote:

Have you ever tried setting fire to diesel? It's almost impossible to
do by throwing lit fag ends and freshly struck matches into a tank
of it. They just go out. It won't burn until it's vapourised. Not
recommended that you try this with petrol though...
Actually, you can stub out a cigarette in petrol. Throwing a lighted match
in petrol isn't recommended though if you're *not* expecting it to light.
;-)
Tim
LIQUID petrol goes out, but petrol VAPOUR makes a nice fuel-air bomb.

Still not sure it'll light with a fag end though. Certainly, you'd expect
there to be vapour over a saucer of petrol and nothing happened when the
fag end was dropped in.

Tim

harry wrote:
On Feb 22, 10:42 am, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:
"tony sayer" wrote in message

...

But there are still serious problems with implementing these the
main one is the primary power system. Batteries, unless someone
does invent one that is neigh on 100% efficient and has much
greater capacity and costs and weighs sod all, will always be their
great limitation.

Oh my God!!

An EV is fine for 90% of "all" car trips made per year - fine for
100% of trips only in towns and cities. It is the odd long trips,
which overall in a country is small, which requires some focus - and
this keeps advancements down. The "poor" range extender in the Volt
is giving a claimed ~60mpg with the car not running on the battery.
So not bad. The Russian rotary vane engine range extender offers far
more.

Note below, "90% charge in less than 5 minutes".

http://www.toshiba.com/ind/data/news/news_241.pdf
Toshiba International Corporation, January 27, 2010 - Toshiba proudly
announces that it has established US-based sales and technical
support for its new product, the Super Charge Ion Battery, SCiBT.
This nano-based breakthrough lithium technology is noted for its
rapid charging capability of 90% charge in less than 5 minutes, long
life of more than 10 years even at rapid charge rates, and excellent
safety performance. The SCiBT product line will be supported out of
the Toshiba International Corporation headquarters in Houston, Texas
and the SCiBT team will focus on business development activities,
battery pack design, prototyping, assembly, technical support, and
service.

The SCiBT battery technology offers numerous performance advantages
that make it an ideal solution for many of today's toughest energy
storage challenges.

The secret is brake regen and supercapacitors/efficient batteries.
The new Russian hybrid using the rotary vane engines range extender
uses supercapacitors. Compressed air brake regen would have been
feasible, and air is free, but R&D in supercapacitors and batteries
may have pushed air into the background for now.

To hear misguided politicos wittering on about "non polluting" when
the power is in the main supplied by coal and gas, the power
generated conversion a not to high percentage, and then transmitted
and stored with yet another conversion does indeed deserve the
worthy comment Knob head...

Coal smoke stacks can be controlled. Gas is very clean. So, 40%
efficient from power station to socket. 80^ of the energy in cars
tank is wasted, so 20% efficient. A battery wastes only 10% at most
so 90% plus efficient. It does not take much maths to see the EV is
more energy efficient from station generator to EVs wheels - as it
stands RIGHT NOW !!!!

Clean up the towns and cities and its cascades to all over.

If everybody had such a charger the national grid couldn't meet th
eload.

They will incease capacity as they filter in. Supercaps can be used for
storage

NT wrote:

On Feb 22, 11:51 am, Steve Firth wrote:
"Robin" wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17107715

If I were still working/commuting I'd be tempted because of the
exemption from the London Congestion Charge for wholly electric
vehicles, together with free parking in Westminster, the City and
Camden. I suspect many of the 892 are people gaming those systems.

My off-roader is congestion charge exempt. It has a range of 700 miles and
can tackle driving across Europe within a day and a half. Which electric
vehicle should I be looking at?

700 miles in the real world, or descending a 700 mile high mountain?

700 to 720 miles or so, depending on how hard the loud pedal is pressed.
If you think about it, I'm sure you will work it out.

tony sayer wrote:

I've been on a 120 mile round trip today I might end up doing that
again or more next week. I might not go anywhere the week after ...

Batteries can get 200-300 mile - RIGHT NOW. Then use light composite
materials for the body, as the Russians are right now.

Then there is the "range extender"

Right so what power can that store then compared to a conventional
battery and if so is it cost effective for a motor vehicle application
giving say a "useful" capacity and range?. I'd like a range of say 400
odd miles on a tankful or charge...

The average car driver DOES NOT need a range of 400 mile in 95% of use.
Hence why range extenders will be introduced. Many small cars will be just
EV.

The secret is brake regen and supercapacitors/efficient batteries.
The new Russian hybrid using the rotary vane engines range extender
uses supercapacitors.

Well if your going to add in another engine why bother with all the
electric traction?..

You really do not get it.

Look at the links I gave for the Russian Rotary Vane engine.

F Murtz wrote:
tony sayer wrote:

I'd like a
range of say 400 odd miles on a tankful or charge...

So would I on my petrol car.

Why? Are you going into a desert? There are filling stations everywhere.

Lee wrote:

There is another problem here, namely that if a much higher density
portable energy solution was developed it would have too much
potential to be "unsafe".
Whether deliberately or not.

Like a tank full highly volatile petrol?

harry wrote:
On Feb 22, 11:16 am, Lee wrote:
On 22/02/2012 09:42, tony sayer wrote:

But there are still serious problems with implementing these the
main one is the primary power system. Batteries, unless someone
does invent one that is neigh on 100% efficient and has much
greater capacity and costs and weighs sod all, will always be their
great limitation.

There is another problem here, namely that if a much higher density
portable energy solution was developed it would have too much
potential to be "unsafe".
Whether deliberately or not.

There is other technology on the horizon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_capacitor

Instant charging is possible.

The ultra battery:
http://www.csiro.au/science/Ultra-Battery

Paul Herber wrote:
On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 11:22:16 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Nthkentman wrote:
Does that make milk floats which have been utilising batteries for
decades to lower noise when delivering early in the morning, keep
costs lower and provide services otherwise not available to elderly
or sick people knobheads too?

Haven't seen a milk float for many a year. Once they were a common
sight. But in any case a very specialist application. Travels a
short distance with many start/stops. No other deliveries has the
same pattern.

Post (well, 90% of local deliveries/collections)
Meter readers

Most car drivers who go the supermarket for their shopping. Most small
hatches are glorified supermarket trellis.

ARWadsworth wrote:

Why do EV van/car drivers have concessions?

To kick-start them. And educate the the silly about them.