http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17107715

--
Adam

ARWadsworth wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17107715

If I were still working/commuting I'd be tempted because of the
exemption from the London Congestion Charge for wholly electric
vehicles, together with free parking in Westminster, the City and
Camden. I suspect many of the 892 are people gaming those systems.
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

"Robin" wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17107715

If I were still working/commuting I'd be tempted because of the
exemption from the London Congestion Charge for wholly electric
vehicles, together with free parking in Westminster, the City and
Camden. I suspect many of the 892 are people gaming those systems.

My off-roader is congestion charge exempt. It has a range of 700 miles and
can tackle driving across Europe within a day and a half. Which electric
vehicle should I be looking at?

Steve Firth wrote:
"Robin" wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17107715

If I were still working/commuting I'd be tempted because of the
exemption from the London Congestion Charge for wholly electric
vehicles, together with free parking in Westminster, the City and
Camden. I suspect many of the 892 are people gaming those systems.

My off-roader is congestion charge exempt. It has a range of 700
miles and can tackle driving across Europe within a day and a half.
Which electric vehicle should I be looking at?

One with a 700 mile extension lead?

--
Adam

In message , ARWadsworth
writes
Steve Firth wrote:
"Robin" wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17107715

If I were still working/commuting I'd be tempted because of the
exemption from the London Congestion Charge for wholly electric
vehicles, together with free parking in Westminster, the City and
Camden. I suspect many of the 892 are people gaming those systems.

My off-roader is congestion charge exempt. It has a range of 700
miles and can tackle driving across Europe within a day and a half.
Which electric vehicle should I be looking at?

One with a 700 mile extension lead?

But not a 699 mile, 4095 feet, 11.4 inches long, though

(0.6" being ~1.5cm)
--
geoff

geoff wrote:
In message , ARWadsworth
writes
Steve Firth wrote:
"Robin" wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17107715

If I were still working/commuting I'd be tempted because of the
exemption from the London Congestion Charge for wholly electric
vehicles, together with free parking in Westminster, the City and
Camden. I suspect many of the 892 are people gaming those systems.

My off-roader is congestion charge exempt. It has a range of 700
miles and can tackle driving across Europe within a day and a half.
Which electric vehicle should I be looking at?

One with a 700 mile extension lead?

But not a 699 mile, 4095 feet, 11.4 inches long, though

(0.6" being ~1.5cm)

Well said Maxie! Well said!! No doubt an eloquent person as yourself does
not drive a Ford.

On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 21:34:38 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
One with a 700 mile extension lead?

But not a 699 mile, 4095 feet, 11.4 inches long, though

(0.6" being ~1.5cm)

What's 4096 ft?

1.2484608 km?

In message , Tim
Streater writes
In article , geoff
wrote:

In message , ARWadsworth
writes
Steve Firth wrote:
"Robin" wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17107715

If I were still working/commuting I'd be tempted because of the
exemption from the London Congestion Charge for wholly electric
vehicles, together with free parking in Westminster, the City and
Camden. I suspect many of the 892 are people gaming those systems.

My off-roader is congestion charge exempt. It has a range of 700
miles and can tackle driving across Europe within a day and a half.
Which electric vehicle should I be looking at?

One with a 700 mile extension lead?

But not a 699 mile, 4095 feet, 11.4 inches long, though
(0.6" being ~1.5cm)

What's 4096 ft?

Bugger, I meant 5279

there goes the imperial system

yeah. What is 4096?

--
geoff

On Feb 22, 11:51*am, Steve Firth wrote:
"Robin" wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17107715

If I were still working/commuting I'd be tempted because of the
exemption from the London Congestion Charge for wholly electric
vehicles, together *with free parking in Westminster, the City and
Camden. *I suspect many of the 892 are people gaming those systems.

My off-roader is congestion charge exempt. It has a range of 700 miles and
can tackle driving across Europe within a day and a half. Which electric
vehicle should I be looking at?

700 miles in the real world, or descending a 700 mile high mountain?


NT

On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 13:05:43 -0800 (PST), NT wrote:

700 miles in the real world, or descending a 700 mile high mountain?

My car has a 600 mile real world range brim to running on vapour.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 22:25:36 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 13:05:43 -0800 (PST), NT wrote:

700 miles in the real world, or descending a 700 mile high mountain?

My car has a 600 mile real world range brim to running on vapour.

With main and aux both full, 1453 miles on mine.

NT wrote:

On Feb 22, 11:51 am, Steve Firth wrote:
"Robin" wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17107715

If I were still working/commuting I'd be tempted because of the
exemption from the London Congestion Charge for wholly electric
vehicles, together with free parking in Westminster, the City and
Camden. I suspect many of the 892 are people gaming those systems.

My off-roader is congestion charge exempt. It has a range of 700 miles and
can tackle driving across Europe within a day and a half. Which electric
vehicle should I be looking at?

700 miles in the real world, or descending a 700 mile high mountain?

700 to 720 miles or so, depending on how hard the loud pedal is pressed.
If you think about it, I'm sure you will work it out.

In article ,
ARWadsworth wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17107715

Perhaps we'll see a comeback of the Harrod's vans?

--
*How many roads must a man travel down before he admits he is lost?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17107715

Does that make the many councils and sub-contractors using EV knobheads as
well? Several major sub-contract companies I go to have EV for transport and
tasks up to 3.5 tonnes. Very useful they are too.

Does that make milk floats which have been utilising batteries for decades
to lower noise when delivering early in the morning, keep costs lower and
provide services otherwise not available to elderly or sick people knobheads
too?

Does it make the people living in the cities that benefit from all the
concessions provided for EVs knobheads?


No, it's just people like you that provide links and derogatory statements
about technology you know little about because it doesn't fit into your
"Good old days" attitude lifestyle that are..
Perhaps the apprentices assisting the companies building them should be
shouted at more often, or sacked for not clearing the snow in the car park
so you can park your gas guzzler and given a thick ear to remind them who's
the boss eh.....

Luddite
Do keep up at the back, there's a good chap

In article , Nthkentman
scribeth thus

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17107715

Does that make the many councils and sub-contractors using EV knobheads as
well? Several major sub-contract companies I go to have EV for transport and
tasks up to 3.5 tonnes. Very useful they are too.

Does that make milk floats which have been utilising batteries for decades
to lower noise when delivering early in the morning, keep costs lower and
provide services otherwise not available to elderly or sick people knobheads
too?

Does it make the people living in the cities that benefit from all the
concessions provided for EVs knobheads?


No, it's just people like you that provide links and derogatory statements
about technology you know little about because it doesn't fit into your
"Good old days" attitude lifestyle that are..
Perhaps the apprentices assisting the companies building them should be
shouted at more often, or sacked for not clearing the snow in the car park
so you can park your gas guzzler and given a thick ear to remind them who's
the boss eh.....

Luddite
Do keep up at the back, there's a good chap


I know that sometimes Adam refers to a spade as a shovel and not an
earth inverting horticultural instrument but...

Electric vehicles in the main, not milk floats, around there they have a
Petrol powered one wonder why?.

But there are still serious problems with implementing these the main
one is the primary power system. Batteries, unless someone does invent
one that is neigh on 100% efficient and has much greater capacity and
costs and weighs sod all, will always be their great limitation.

Electric motor power transmission is excellent but this power source.

To hear misguided politicos wittering on about "non polluting" when the
power is in the main supplied by coal and gas, the power generated
conversion a not to high percentage, and then transmitted and stored
with yet another conversion does indeed deserve the worthy comment Knob
head...
--
Tony Sayer

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...

But there are still serious problems with implementing these the main
one is the primary power system. Batteries, unless someone does invent
one that is neigh on 100% efficient and has much greater capacity and
costs and weighs sod all, will always be their great limitation.

Oh my God!!

An EV is fine for 90% of "all" car trips made per year - fine for 100% of
trips only in towns and cities. It is the odd long trips, which overall in
a country is small, which requires some focus - and this keeps advancements
down. The "poor" range extender in the Volt is giving a claimed ~60mpg with
the car not running on the battery. So not bad. The Russian rotary vane
engine range extender offers far more.

Note below, "90% charge in less than 5 minutes".

http://www.toshiba.com/ind/data/news/news_241.pdf
Toshiba International Corporation, January 27, 2010 - Toshiba proudly
announces that it has established US-based sales and technical support for
its new product, the Super Charge Ion Battery, SCiBT. This nano-based
breakthrough lithium technology is noted for its rapid charging capability
of 90% charge in less than 5 minutes, long life of more than 10 years even
at rapid charge rates, and excellent safety performance. The SCiBT product
line will be supported out of the Toshiba International Corporation
headquarters in Houston, Texas and the SCiBT team will focus on business
development activities, battery pack design, prototyping, assembly,
technical support, and service.

The SCiBT battery technology offers numerous performance advantages that
make it an ideal solution for many of today's toughest energy storage
challenges.

The secret is brake regen and supercapacitors/efficient batteries. The new
Russian hybrid using the rotary vane engines range extender uses
supercapacitors. Compressed air brake regen would have been feasible, and
air is free, but R&D in supercapacitors and batteries may have pushed air
into the background for now.

To hear misguided politicos wittering on about "non polluting" when the
power is in the main supplied by coal and gas, the power generated
conversion a not to high percentage, and then transmitted and stored
with yet another conversion does indeed deserve the worthy comment Knob
head...

Coal smoke stacks can be controlled. Gas is very clean. So, 40% efficient
from power station to socket. 80^ of the energy in cars tank is wasted, so
20% efficient. A battery wastes only 10% at most so 90% plus efficient. It
does not take much maths to see the EV is more energy efficient from station
generator to EVs wheels - as it stands RIGHT NOW !!!!

Clean up the towns and cities and its cascades to all over.

On Feb 22, 10:42*am, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:
"tony sayer" wrote in message

...

But there are still serious problems with implementing these the main
one is the primary power system. Batteries, unless someone does invent
one that is neigh on 100% efficient and has much greater capacity and
costs and weighs sod all, will always be their great limitation.

Oh my God!!

An EV is fine for 90% of "all" car trips made per year - fine for 100% of
trips only in towns and cities. *It is the odd long trips, which overall in
a country is small, which requires some focus - and this keeps advancements
down. *The "poor" range extender in the Volt is giving a claimed ~60mpg with
the car not running on the battery. *So not bad. The Russian rotary vane
engine range extender offers far more.

Note below, "90% charge in less than 5 minutes".

http://www.toshiba.com/ind/data/news/news_241.pdf
Toshiba International Corporation, January 27, 2010 - Toshiba proudly
announces that it has established US-based sales and technical support for
its new product, the Super Charge Ion Battery, SCiBT. *This nano-based
breakthrough lithium technology is noted for its rapid charging capability
of 90% charge in less than 5 minutes, long life of more than 10 years even
at rapid charge rates, and excellent safety performance. The SCiBT product
line will be supported out of the Toshiba International Corporation
headquarters in Houston, Texas and the SCiBT team will focus on business
development activities, battery pack design, prototyping, assembly,
technical support, and service.

The SCiBT battery technology offers numerous performance advantages that
make it an ideal solution for many of today's toughest energy storage
challenges.

The secret is brake regen and supercapacitors/efficient batteries. The new
Russian hybrid using the rotary vane engines range extender uses
supercapacitors. Compressed air brake regen would have been feasible, and
air is free, but *R&D in supercapacitors and batteries may have pushed air
into the background for now.

To hear misguided politicos wittering on about "non polluting" when the
power is in the main supplied by coal and gas, the power generated
conversion a not to high percentage, and then transmitted and stored
with yet another conversion does indeed deserve the worthy comment Knob
head...

Coal smoke stacks can be controlled. *Gas is very clean. *So, 40% efficient
from power station to socket. *80^ of the energy in cars tank is wasted, so
20% efficient. *A battery wastes only 10% at most so 90% plus efficient.. It
does not take much maths to see the EV is more energy efficient from station
generator to EVs wheels - as it stands RIGHT NOW !!!!

Clean up the towns and cities and its cascades to all over.

If everybody had such a charger the national grid couldn't meet th
eload.

harry wrote:
On Feb 22, 10:42 am, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:
"tony sayer" wrote in message

...

But there are still serious problems with implementing these the
main one is the primary power system. Batteries, unless someone
does invent one that is neigh on 100% efficient and has much
greater capacity and costs and weighs sod all, will always be their
great limitation.

Oh my God!!

An EV is fine for 90% of "all" car trips made per year - fine for
100% of trips only in towns and cities. It is the odd long trips,
which overall in a country is small, which requires some focus - and
this keeps advancements down. The "poor" range extender in the Volt
is giving a claimed ~60mpg with the car not running on the battery.
So not bad. The Russian rotary vane engine range extender offers far
more.

Note below, "90% charge in less than 5 minutes".

http://www.toshiba.com/ind/data/news/news_241.pdf
Toshiba International Corporation, January 27, 2010 - Toshiba proudly
announces that it has established US-based sales and technical
support for its new product, the Super Charge Ion Battery, SCiBT.
This nano-based breakthrough lithium technology is noted for its
rapid charging capability of 90% charge in less than 5 minutes, long
life of more than 10 years even at rapid charge rates, and excellent
safety performance. The SCiBT product line will be supported out of
the Toshiba International Corporation headquarters in Houston, Texas
and the SCiBT team will focus on business development activities,
battery pack design, prototyping, assembly, technical support, and
service.

The SCiBT battery technology offers numerous performance advantages
that make it an ideal solution for many of today's toughest energy
storage challenges.

The secret is brake regen and supercapacitors/efficient batteries.
The new Russian hybrid using the rotary vane engines range extender
uses supercapacitors. Compressed air brake regen would have been
feasible, and air is free, but R&D in supercapacitors and batteries
may have pushed air into the background for now.

To hear misguided politicos wittering on about "non polluting" when
the power is in the main supplied by coal and gas, the power
generated conversion a not to high percentage, and then transmitted
and stored with yet another conversion does indeed deserve the
worthy comment Knob head...

Coal smoke stacks can be controlled. Gas is very clean. So, 40%
efficient from power station to socket. 80^ of the energy in cars
tank is wasted, so 20% efficient. A battery wastes only 10% at most
so 90% plus efficient. It does not take much maths to see the EV is
more energy efficient from station generator to EVs wheels - as it
stands RIGHT NOW !!!!

Clean up the towns and cities and its cascades to all over.

If everybody had such a charger the national grid couldn't meet th
eload.

They will incease capacity as they filter in. Supercaps can be used for
storage

In article , Doctor Drivel
scribeth thus
"tony sayer" wrote in message
...

But there are still serious problems with implementing these the main
one is the primary power system. Batteries, unless someone does invent
one that is neigh on 100% efficient and has much greater capacity and
costs and weighs sod all, will always be their great limitation.

Oh my God!!

An EV is fine for 90% of "all" car trips made per year - fine for 100% of
trips only in towns and cities. It is the odd long trips, which overall in
a country is small, which requires some focus - and this keeps advancements
down. The "poor" range extender in the Volt is giving a claimed ~60mpg with
the car not running on the battery. So not bad. The Russian rotary vane
engine range extender offers far more.

So what are all those motahs doing on the A14 earlier, just tootling
from one village to the other?..

I've been on a 120 mile round trip today I might end up doing that again
or more next week. I might not go anywhere the week after ...

A car that is only capable of some 60 miles range without recharge is
about as useful as tits on a bull.

I rather expect that is the Case with a lot of other vehicle users...



Note below, "90% charge in less than 5 minutes".

http://www.toshiba.com/ind/data/news/news_241.pdf
Toshiba International Corporation, January 27, 2010 - Toshiba proudly
announces that it has established US-based sales and technical support for
its new product, the Super Charge Ion Battery, SCiBT. This nano-based
breakthrough lithium technology is noted for its rapid charging capability
of 90% charge in less than 5 minutes, long life of more than 10 years even
at rapid charge rates, and excellent safety performance. The SCiBT product
line will be supported out of the Toshiba International Corporation
headquarters in Houston, Texas and the SCiBT team will focus on business
development activities, battery pack design, prototyping, assembly,
technical support, and service.

The SCiBT battery technology offers numerous performance advantages that
make it an ideal solution for many of today's toughest energy storage
challenges.


Right so what power can that store then compared to a conventional
battery and if so is it cost effective for a motor vehicle application
giving say a "useful" capacity and range?. I'd like a range of say 400
odd miles on a tankful or charge...

The secret is brake regen and supercapacitors/efficient batteries. The new
Russian hybrid using the rotary vane engines range extender uses
supercapacitors.

Well if your going to add in another engine why bother with all the
electric traction?..


Compressed air brake regen would have been feasible, and
air is free, but R&D in supercapacitors and batteries may have pushed air
into the background for now.


Regen?, Perhaps some use around town for a Taxi but on a Motorway at
around the 70 limit?. Doesn't seem that practical..


To hear misguided politicos wittering on about "non polluting" when the
power is in the main supplied by coal and gas, the power generated
conversion a not to high percentage, and then transmitted and stored
with yet another conversion does indeed deserve the worthy comment Knob
head...

Coal smoke stacks can be controlled.


Gas is very clean.

Except you might have missed it that it wasn't that much spare in supply
around a week or so ago. Not too practical is it..

So, 40% efficient
from power station to socket. 80^ of the energy in cars tank is wasted, so
20% efficient.

Really, as low as that?..

A battery wastes only 10% at most so 90% plus efficient. It
does not take much maths to see the EV is more energy efficient from station
generator to EVs wheels - as it stands RIGHT NOW !!!!

Even if that is right where are we going to get all this extra energy
from?..

Clean up the towns and cities and its cascades to all over.

Yes so why aren't we doing that right now with electric vehicles?..
--
Tony Sayer

tony sayer wrote:
In , Doctor Drivel
scribeth thus
"tony wrote in message
...

But there are still serious problems with implementing these the main
one is the primary power system. Batteries, unless someone does invent
one that is neigh on 100% efficient and has much greater capacity and
costs and weighs sod all, will always be their great limitation.

Oh my God!!

An EV is fine for 90% of "all" car trips made per year - fine for 100% of
trips only in towns and cities. It is the odd long trips, which overall in
a country is small, which requires some focus - and this keeps advancements
down. The "poor" range extender in the Volt is giving a claimed ~60mpg with
the car not running on the battery. So not bad. The Russian rotary vane
engine range extender offers far more.

So what are all those motahs doing on the A14 earlier, just tootling
from one village to the other?..

I've been on a 120 mile round trip today I might end up doing that again
or more next week. I might not go anywhere the week after ...

A car that is only capable of some 60 miles range without recharge is
about as useful as tits on a bull.

I rather expect that is the Case with a lot of other vehicle users...



Note below, "90% charge in less than 5 minutes".

http://www.toshiba.com/ind/data/news/news_241.pdf
Toshiba International Corporation, January 27, 2010 - Toshiba proudly
announces that it has established US-based sales and technical support for
its new product, the Super Charge Ion Battery, SCiBT. This nano-based
breakthrough lithium technology is noted for its rapid charging capability
of 90% charge in less than 5 minutes, long life of more than 10 years even
at rapid charge rates, and excellent safety performance. The SCiBT product
line will be supported out of the Toshiba International Corporation
headquarters in Houston, Texas and the SCiBT team will focus on business
development activities, battery pack design, prototyping, assembly,
technical support, and service.

The SCiBT battery technology offers numerous performance advantages that
make it an ideal solution for many of today's toughest energy storage
challenges.


Right so what power can that store then compared to a conventional
battery and if so is it cost effective for a motor vehicle application
giving say a "useful" capacity and range?. I'd like a range of say 400
odd miles on a tankful or charge...

So would I on my petrol car.




The secret is brake regen and supercapacitors/efficient batteries. The new
Russian hybrid using the rotary vane engines range extender uses
supercapacitors.

Well if your going to add in another engine why bother with all the
electric traction?..


Compressed air brake regen would have been feasible, and
air is free, but R&D in supercapacitors and batteries may have pushed air
into the background for now.


Regen?, Perhaps some use around town for a Taxi but on a Motorway at
around the 70 limit?. Doesn't seem that practical..


To hear misguided politicos wittering on about "non polluting" when the
power is in the main supplied by coal and gas, the power generated
conversion a not to high percentage, and then transmitted and stored
with yet another conversion does indeed deserve the worthy comment Knob
head...

Coal smoke stacks can be controlled.


Gas is very clean.

Except you might have missed it that it wasn't that much spare in supply
around a week or so ago. Not too practical is it..

So, 40% efficient
from power station to socket. 80^ of the energy in cars tank is wasted, so
20% efficient.

Really, as low as that?..

A battery wastes only 10% at most so 90% plus efficient. It
does not take much maths to see the EV is more energy efficient from station
generator to EVs wheels - as it stands RIGHT NOW !!!!

Even if that is right where are we going to get all this extra energy
from?..

Clean up the towns and cities and its cascades to all over.

Yes so why aren't we doing that right now with electric vehicles?..

tony sayer wrote:

I've been on a 120 mile round trip today I might end up doing that
again or more next week. I might not go anywhere the week after ...

Batteries can get 200-300 mile - RIGHT NOW. Then use light composite
materials for the body, as the Russians are right now.

Then there is the "range extender"

Right so what power can that store then compared to a conventional
battery and if so is it cost effective for a motor vehicle application
giving say a "useful" capacity and range?. I'd like a range of say 400
odd miles on a tankful or charge...

The average car driver DOES NOT need a range of 400 mile in 95% of use.
Hence why range extenders will be introduced. Many small cars will be just
EV.

The secret is brake regen and supercapacitors/efficient batteries.
The new Russian hybrid using the rotary vane engines range extender
uses supercapacitors.

Well if your going to add in another engine why bother with all the
electric traction?..

You really do not get it.

Look at the links I gave for the Russian Rotary Vane engine.

On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 18:26:05 +0000, tony sayer wrote:

A car that is only capable of some 60 miles range without recharge is
about as useful as tits on a bull.

60 miles wouldn't even get me to the supermarket and back...

Probably OK for the vast amount of commuters in urban areas though,
even if they can only recharge overnight. Indeed thousands of cars
recharging during the day (when demand is high) is probably not a
good thing.

Compressed air brake regen would have been feasible, and air is
free,
but R&D in supercapacitors and batteries may have pushed air into
the
background for now.

Or even compressed air a "fuel". Saw a demo of a vehicle on the box a
while back but don't know it's range... Or even the use of liquified
air (or nitrogen) as "fuel".

Regen?, Perhaps some use around town for a Taxi but on a Motorway at
around the 70 limit?. Doesn't seem that practical..

Like the new super green bus for London that ran out of diesel when
driving up the motorway...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 22/02/2012 09:42, tony sayer wrote:

But there are still serious problems with implementing these the main
one is the primary power system. Batteries, unless someone does invent
one that is neigh on 100% efficient and has much greater capacity and
costs and weighs sod all, will always be their great limitation.

There is another problem here, namely that if a much higher density
portable energy solution was developed it would have too much potential
to be "unsafe".
Whether deliberately or not.

On Feb 22, 11:16*am, Lee wrote:
On 22/02/2012 09:42, tony sayer wrote:

But there are still serious problems with implementing these the main
one is the primary power system. Batteries, unless someone does invent
one that is neigh on 100% efficient and has much greater capacity and
costs and weighs sod all, will always be their great limitation.

There is another problem here, namely that if a much higher density
portable energy solution was developed it would have too much potential
to be "unsafe".
Whether deliberately or not.

knobheads++

You mean like a tankful of petrol or diesel?

MBQ

On 22/02/2012 11:20, Man at B&Q wrote:

There is another problem here, namely that if a much higher density
portable energy solution was developed it would have too much potential
to be "unsafe".
Whether deliberately or not.

knobheads++

You mean like a tankful of petrol or diesel?

LOL

On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 03:20:52 -0800 (PST), Man at B&Q wrote:

There is another problem here, namely that if a much higher
density
portable energy solution was developed it would have too much
potential
to be "unsafe".

You mean like a tankful of petrol or diesel?

Tanks of petrol are nasty, the vapour produced at normal temperatures
will burn (explode) with a tiny source of ignition. Diesel has to be
got fairly hot before it vapourises enough to catch fire. Starting
from cold it doesn't even burn well on a wick of some sort. Biggest
danger from a diesel spill is slipping on it rather than fire.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Man at B&Q wrote:
On Feb 22, 11:16 am, Lee wrote:
On 22/02/2012 09:42, tony sayer wrote:

But there are still serious problems with implementing these the main
one is the primary power system. Batteries, unless someone does invent
one that is neigh on 100% efficient and has much greater capacity and
costs and weighs sod all, will always be their great limitation.
There is another problem here, namely that if a much higher density
portable energy solution was developed it would have too much potential
to be "unsafe".
Whether deliberately or not.

knobheads++

You mean like a tankful of petrol or diesel?

More like a IED actually.

MBQ

On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 03:20:52 -0800, Man at B&Q wrote:

On Feb 22, 11:16Â*am, Lee wrote:
On 22/02/2012 09:42, tony sayer wrote:

But there are still serious problems with implementing these the main
one is the primary power system. Batteries, unless someone does
invent one that is neigh on 100% efficient and has much greater
capacity and costs and weighs sod all, will always be their great
limitation.

There is another problem here, namely that if a much higher density
portable energy solution was developed it would have too much potential
to be "unsafe".
Whether deliberately or not.

knobheads++

You mean like a tankful of petrol or diesel?

MBQ


Have you ever tried setting fire to diesel? It's almost impossible to do
by throwing lit fag ends and freshly struck matches into a tank of it.
They just go out. It won't burn until it's vapourised. Not recommended
that you try this with petrol though...

--
Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web: http://www.nascom.info
Filtering everything posted from googlegroups to kill spam.

Lee wrote:
On 22/02/2012 09:42, tony sayer wrote:

But there are still serious problems with implementing these the main
one is the primary power system. Batteries, unless someone does invent
one that is neigh on 100% efficient and has much greater capacity and
costs and weighs sod all, will always be their great limitation.

There is another problem here, namely that if a much higher density
portable energy solution was developed it would have too much potential to be "unsafe".
Whether deliberately or not.

Balderdash. Such higher density portable energy solutions blecch - you
know someone is bull****ting as soon as the say "solution" already exist.
They are smaller, lighter, cheaper and safer than giant LiIon batteries.

They can also be recharged within a few minutes.

On Feb 22, 11:16*am, Lee wrote:
On 22/02/2012 09:42, tony sayer wrote:

But there are still serious problems with implementing these the main
one is the primary power system. Batteries, unless someone does invent
one that is neigh on 100% efficient and has much greater capacity and
costs and weighs sod all, will always be their great limitation.

There is another problem here, namely that if a much higher density
portable energy solution was developed it would have too much potential
to be "unsafe".
Whether deliberately or not.

There is other technology on the horizon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_capacitor

Instant charging is possible.

harry wrote:
On Feb 22, 11:16 am, Lee wrote:
On 22/02/2012 09:42, tony sayer wrote:

But there are still serious problems with implementing these the main
one is the primary power system. Batteries, unless someone does invent
one that is neigh on 100% efficient and has much greater capacity and
costs and weighs sod all, will always be their great limitation.
There is another problem here, namely that if a much higher density
portable energy solution was developed it would have too much potential
to be "unsafe".
Whether deliberately or not.

There is other technology on the horizon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_capacitor

Instant charging is possible.
sigh. Yio really are an idiot aren't you? NOW LOOK at waht ACTUAL
capacities 'supercapacitors' achieve and how the voltage tapers off from
where it starts to sod all and work out WHY they will never power cars.

In message
,
harry writes
On Feb 22, 11:16*am, Lee wrote:
On 22/02/2012 09:42, tony sayer wrote:

But there are still serious problems with implementing these the main
one is the primary power system. Batteries, unless someone does invent
one that is neigh on 100% efficient and has much greater capacity and
costs and weighs sod all, will always be their great limitation.

There is another problem here, namely that if a much higher density
portable energy solution was developed it would have too much potential
to be "unsafe".
Whether deliberately or not.

There is other technology on the horizon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_capacitor

Instant charging is possible.

Oh dear harry, you really don't know when to let people think you are an
idiot rather than prove it time and again


--
geoff

harry wrote:
On Feb 22, 11:16 am, Lee wrote:
On 22/02/2012 09:42, tony sayer wrote:

But there are still serious problems with implementing these the
main one is the primary power system. Batteries, unless someone
does invent one that is neigh on 100% efficient and has much
greater capacity and costs and weighs sod all, will always be their
great limitation.

There is another problem here, namely that if a much higher density
portable energy solution was developed it would have too much
potential to be "unsafe".
Whether deliberately or not.

There is other technology on the horizon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_capacitor

Instant charging is possible.

The ultra battery:
http://www.csiro.au/science/Ultra-Battery

On Feb 22, 5:20*pm, harry wrote:
On Feb 22, 11:16*am, Lee wrote:

On 22/02/2012 09:42, tony sayer wrote:

But there are still serious problems with implementing these the main
one is the primary power system. Batteries, unless someone does invent
one that is neigh on 100% efficient and has much greater capacity and
costs and weighs sod all, will always be their great limitation.

There is another problem here, namely that if a much higher density
portable energy solution was developed it would have too much potential
to be "unsafe".
Whether deliberately or not.

There is other technology on the horizon.

Been here for years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_capacitor

Instant charging is possible.

No it isn't.

They are good as temporary storage for, e.g., regenerative braking,
but practically useless as primary storage.

higher charge/discharge rates are possible but energy density is much
lower.

MBQ

Lee wrote:

There is another problem here, namely that if a much higher density
portable energy solution was developed it would have too much
potential to be "unsafe".
Whether deliberately or not.

Like a tank full highly volatile petrol?

On Feb 22, 9:42*am, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Nthkentman
scribeth thus







"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17107715

Does that make the many councils and sub-contractors using EV knobheads as
well? Several major sub-contract companies I go to have EV for transport and
tasks up to 3.5 tonnes. Very useful they are too.

Does that make milk floats which have been utilising batteries for decades
to lower noise when delivering early in the morning, keep costs lower and
provide services otherwise not available to elderly or sick people knobheads
too?

Does it make the people living in the cities that benefit from all the
concessions provided for EVs knobheads?

No, it's just people like you that provide links and derogatory statements
about technology you know little about because it doesn't fit into your
"Good old days" attitude lifestyle that are..
Perhaps the apprentices assisting the companies building them should be
shouted at more often, or sacked for not clearing the snow in the car park
so you can park your gas guzzler and given a thick ear to remind them who's
the boss eh.....

Luddite
Do keep up at the back, there's a good chap

I know that sometimes Adam refers to a spade as a shovel and not an
earth inverting horticultural instrument but...

Electric vehicles in the main, not milk floats, around there they have a
Petrol powered one wonder why?.

But there are still serious problems with implementing these the main
one is the primary power system. Batteries, unless someone does invent
one that is neigh on 100% efficient and has much greater capacity and
costs and weighs sod all, will always be their great limitation.

Electric motor power transmission is excellent but this power source.

To hear misguided politicos wittering on about "non polluting" when the
power is in the main supplied by coal and gas, the power generated
conversion a not to high percentage, and then transmitted and stored
with yet another conversion does indeed deserve the worthy comment Knob
head...
--
Tony Sayer- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If I had one I could charge it up off my PVpanel. That would be
green.
But at that price to be used twice a week, I don't think so.

harry wrote:


If I had one I could charge it up off my PVpanel. That would be
green.

Bwhaha!

You wouldnt even get out of the drive in winter before it was flat.



But at that price to be used twice a week, I don't think so.

On Feb 22, 7:45*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
harry wrote:

If I had one I could charge it up off my PVpanel. *That would be
green.

Bwhaha!

You wouldnt even get out of the drive in winter before it was flat.



But at that price to be used twice a week, I don't think so.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Dependson the weather. the PV ismore efficient when cold. I only use
my car once a week.

On 22/02/2012 09:42, tony sayer wrote:
In , Nthkentman
scribeth thus

wrote in message
...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17107715

Does that make the many councils and sub-contractors using EV knobheads as
well? Several major sub-contract companies I go to have EV for transport and
tasks up to 3.5 tonnes. Very useful they are too.

Does that make milk floats which have been utilising batteries for decades
to lower noise when delivering early in the morning, keep costs lower and
provide services otherwise not available to elderly or sick people knobheads
too?

Does it make the people living in the cities that benefit from all the
concessions provided for EVs knobheads?


No, it's just people like you that provide links and derogatory statements
about technology you know little about because it doesn't fit into your
"Good old days" attitude lifestyle that are..
Perhaps the apprentices assisting the companies building them should be
shouted at more often, or sacked for not clearing the snow in the car park
so you can park your gas guzzler and given a thick ear to remind them who's
the boss eh.....

Luddite
Do keep up at the back, there's a good chap


I know that sometimes Adam refers to a spade as a shovel and not an
earth inverting horticultural instrument but...

Electric vehicles in the main, not milk floats, around there they have a
Petrol powered one wonder why?.

But there are still serious problems with implementing these the main
one is the primary power system. Batteries, unless someone does invent
one that is neigh on 100% efficient and has much greater capacity and
costs and weighs sod all, will always be their great limitation.

Electric motor power transmission is excellent but this power source.

To hear misguided politicos wittering on about "non polluting" when the
power is in the main supplied by coal and gas, the power generated
conversion a not to high percentage, and then transmitted and stored
with yet another conversion does indeed deserve the worthy comment Knob
head...

Nobody seems to have spotted a major flaw with electric vehicles. If
you run out of charge you are buggered - you couldn't push it because of
the weight - with an ICE you could walk to the nearest garage with a can.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Nobody seems to have spotted a major flaw with electric vehicles. If
you run out of charge you are buggered - you couldn't push it because of
the weight - with an ICE you could walk to the nearest garage with a can.

In the days when milk floats were common, it was also common to see them
being towed home. And the likely reason was they had run out of power.

--
*According to my calculations, the problem doesn't exist.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.