I'm about to repair a sash window with some rot along the bottom of
the top sash. This will entail removing the staff and parting
beadings, and whilst out I'd like to apply draughtproofing. I see
various companies supply kits which consist of new beading with built
in brushes to stop the draught.

There are various methods of advancing complexity and cost. The most
economical would I think be to rout a groove myself into the beading
and apply the carrier and brush. If my beading is OK I could do the
whole house this way for about £75 whereas buying kits would be £900.

Has anybody tried this?

If so which of the beading is the brush applied to, and what's the
best way to seal the bottom edge of the lower sash?

On Dec 29, 10:00*am, andyv wrote:
I'm about to repair a sash window with some rot along the bottom of
the top sash. This will entail removing the staff and parting
beadings, and whilst out I'd like to apply draughtproofing. I see
various companies supply kits which consist of new beading with built
in brushes to stop the draught.

There are various methods of advancing complexity and cost. The most
economical would I think be to rout a groove myself into the beading
and apply the carrier and brush. If my beading is OK I could do the
whole house this way for about £75 whereas buying kits would be £900.

Has anybody tried this?

If so which of the beading is the brush applied to, and what's the
best way to seal the bottom edge of the lower sash?

Assuming you mean brush in slot, the brush goes into a slot in the
sides of the sliding sashes themselves.


NT

On Dec 29, 11:08*am, NT wrote:
On Dec 29, 10:00*am, andyv wrote:

I'm about to repair a sash window with some rot along the bottom of
the top sash. This will entail removing the staff and parting
beadings, and whilst out I'd like to apply draughtproofing. I see
various companies supply kits which consist of new beading with built
in brushes to stop the draught.

There are various methods of advancing complexity and cost. The most
economical would I think be to rout a groove myself into the beading
and apply the carrier and brush. If my beading is OK I could do the
whole house this way for about £75 whereas buying kits would be £900.

On 29/12/2011 12:38, andyv wrote:
On Dec 29, 11:08 am, wrote:
On Dec 29, 10:00 am, wrote:

I'm about to repair a sash window with some rot along the bottom of
the top sash. This will entail removing the staff and parting
beadings, and whilst out I'd like to apply draughtproofing. I see
various companies supply kits which consist of new beading with built
in brushes to stop the draught.

There are various methods of advancing complexity and cost. The most
economical would I think be to rout a groove myself into the beading
and apply the carrier and brush. If my beading is OK I could do the
whole house this way for about £75 whereas buying kits would be £900.

Has anybody tried this?

If so which of the beading is the brush applied to, and what's the
best way to seal the bottom edge of the lower sash?

Assuming you mean brush in slot, the brush goes into a slot in the
sides of the sliding sashes themselves.

NT

That's one way, but the DIY kits seem to fit it in the beading.

I've seen one professional version, the belt and braces method, which
has two lines of brushes on the ends of the sash, one in the staff
bead and one in the parting bead. That's 4 brushes each side of each
sash, but these are £100's per window. I'm hoping that a single line
of brush will give a worthwhile improvement though.

The Brush Pile Parting Bead looks interesting. If you can get that to
stay in the groove without fixings it looks like the best bet.
The problem with having brushes everywhere is getting the sashes to move
freely

On Dec 29, 2:20*pm, stuart noble wrote:
On 29/12/2011 12:38, andyv wrote:



On Dec 29, 11:08 am, *wrote:
On Dec 29, 10:00 am, *wrote:

I'm about to repair a sash window with some rot along the bottom of
the top sash. This will entail removing the staff and parting
beadings, and whilst out I'd like to apply draughtproofing. I see
various companies supply kits which consist of new beading with built
in brushes to stop the draught.

There are various methods of advancing complexity and cost. The most
economical would I think be to rout a groove myself into the beading
and apply the carrier and brush. If my beading is OK I could do the
whole house this way for about £75 whereas buying kits would be £900.

Has anybody tried this?

If so which of the beading is the brush applied to, and what's the
best way to seal the bottom edge of the lower sash?

Assuming you mean brush in slot, the brush goes into a slot in the
sides of the sliding sashes themselves.

NT

That's one way, but the DIY kits seem to fit it in the beading.

I've seen one professional version, the belt and braces method, which
has two lines of brushes on the ends of the sash, one in the staff
bead and one in the parting bead. That's 4 brushes each side of each
sash, but these are £100's per window. I'm hoping that a single line
of brush will give a worthwhile improvement though.

The Brush Pile Parting Bead looks interesting. If you can get that to
stay in the groove without fixings it looks like the best bet.
The problem with having brushes everywhere is getting the sashes to move
freely

Yes. Sliding sashes are fussy about adjustment, and brushes only makes
them more so.

FWIW there's an alternative to brushes, its jsut a very thin folded
strip of plastic sheet, less than 1mm thick, that fits in a slot and
presses itself gently against the wood. No issues with stiff
operation, it seems to last well, and does the job better than
brushes. I've not seen it on sale, I presume its very cheap, there's
little to it and I'm sure it would be easy to make your own, given the
right type of plastic - which one though I've no idea.


NT

In article 8d97f79a-ba7c-4991-b41d-61cd97ff4544
@o14g2000vbo.googlegroups.com, says...

On Dec 29, 2:20*pm, stuart noble wrote:
On 29/12/2011 12:38, andyv wrote:



On Dec 29, 11:08 am, *wrote:
On Dec 29, 10:00 am, *wrote:

I'm about to repair a sash window with some rot along the bottom of
the top sash. This will entail removing the staff and parting
beadings, and whilst out I'd like to apply draughtproofing. I see
various companies supply kits which consist of new beading with built
in brushes to stop the draught.

There are various methods of advancing complexity and cost. The most
economical would I think be to rout a groove myself into the beading
and apply the carrier and brush. If my beading is OK I could do the
whole house this way for about £75 whereas buying kits would be £900.

Has anybody tried this?

If so which of the beading is the brush applied to, and what's the
best way to seal the bottom edge of the lower sash?

Assuming you mean brush in slot, the brush goes into a slot in the
sides of the sliding sashes themselves.

NT

That's one way, but the DIY kits seem to fit it in the beading.

I've seen one professional version, the belt and braces method, which
has two lines of brushes on the ends of the sash, one in the staff
bead and one in the parting bead. That's 4 brushes each side of each
sash, but these are £100's per window. I'm hoping that a single line
of brush will give a worthwhile improvement though.

The Brush Pile Parting Bead looks interesting. If you can get that to
stay in the groove without fixings it looks like the best bet.
The problem with having brushes everywhere is getting the sashes to move
freely

Yes. Sliding sashes are fussy about adjustment, and brushes only makes
them more so.

FWIW there's an alternative to brushes, its jsut a very thin folded
strip of plastic sheet, less than 1mm thick, that fits in a slot and
presses itself gently against the wood. No issues with stiff
operation, it seems to last well, and does the job better than
brushes. I've not seen it on sale, I presume its very cheap, there's
little to it and I'm sure it would be easy to make your own, given the
right type of plastic - which one though I've no idea.


I had some of that many years ago and it worked very well on the doors I
put it on. Unfortunately, it has now hardened and some of it is cracked,
so I really need to replace it.

The only problem is that the roll I had is the only one I've ever seen -
and that was being sold off cheap in a sale!

Mine didn't fit in a slot though - you simply pinned onto one surface
before folding it into a vee shape.

It worked very well on the doors but I never thought of putting it on
the sash windows we had then - it would have done an excellent job!

It seems like an excellent product that never caught on, which is a
pity.

The problem with making your own would be the hinge bit down the middle
(which is where mine has broken after about 20 years).

Before folding, this part of it bears a marked similarity to the folds
in light cardboard boxes (like cereal packets) when you flatten them
out.

--

Terry

On 29/12/2011 19:10, Terry Casey wrote:
In article8d97f79a-ba7c-4991-b41d-61cd97ff4544
@o14g2000vbo.googlegroups.com, says...

On Dec 29, 2:20 pm, stuart wrote:
On 29/12/2011 12:38, andyv wrote:



On Dec 29, 11:08 am, wrote:
On Dec 29, 10:00 am, wrote:

I'm about to repair a sash window with some rot along the bottom of
the top sash. This will entail removing the staff and parting
beadings, and whilst out I'd like to apply draughtproofing. I see
various companies supply kits which consist of new beading with built
in brushes to stop the draught.

There are various methods of advancing complexity and cost. The most
economical would I think be to rout a groove myself into the beading
and apply the carrier and brush. If my beading is OK I could do the
whole house this way for about £75 whereas buying kits would be £900.

Has anybody tried this?

If so which of the beading is the brush applied to, and what's the
best way to seal the bottom edge of the lower sash?

Assuming you mean brush in slot, the brush goes into a slot in the
sides of the sliding sashes themselves.

NT

That's one way, but the DIY kits seem to fit it in the beading.

I've seen one professional version, the belt and braces method, which
has two lines of brushes on the ends of the sash, one in the staff
bead and one in the parting bead. That's 4 brushes each side of each
sash, but these are £100's per window. I'm hoping that a single line
of brush will give a worthwhile improvement though.

The Brush Pile Parting Bead looks interesting. If you can get that to
stay in the groove without fixings it looks like the best bet.
The problem with having brushes everywhere is getting the sashes to move
freely

Yes. Sliding sashes are fussy about adjustment, and brushes only makes
them more so.

FWIW there's an alternative to brushes, its jsut a very thin folded
strip of plastic sheet, less than 1mm thick, that fits in a slot and
presses itself gently against the wood. No issues with stiff
operation, it seems to last well, and does the job better than
brushes. I've not seen it on sale, I presume its very cheap, there's
little to it and I'm sure it would be easy to make your own, given the
right type of plastic - which one though I've no idea.


I had some of that many years ago and it worked very well on the doors I
put it on. Unfortunately, it has now hardened and some of it is cracked,
so I really need to replace it.

The only problem is that the roll I had is the only one I've ever seen -
and that was being sold off cheap in a sale!

Mine didn't fit in a slot though - you simply pinned onto one surface
before folding it into a vee shape.

It worked very well on the doors but I never thought of putting it on
the sash windows we had then - it would have done an excellent job!

It seems like an excellent product that never caught on, which is a
pity.

The problem with making your own would be the hinge bit down the middle
(which is where mine has broken after about 20 years).

Before folding, this part of it bears a marked similarity to the folds
in light cardboard boxes (like cereal packets) when you flatten them
out.


The folding plastic thing didn't work for me. One winter under
compression and they were as flat as a pancake. I think you'd need
silicone to retain springiness, possibly with a pvc skin for smooth running

On Dec 29, 7:27*pm, stuart noble wrote:
On 29/12/2011 19:10, Terry Casey wrote:



In article8d97f79a-ba7c-4991-b41d-61cd97ff4544
@o14g2000vbo.googlegroups.com, says...

On Dec 29, 2:20 pm, stuart *wrote:
On 29/12/2011 12:38, andyv wrote:

On Dec 29, 11:08 am, * *wrote:
On Dec 29, 10:00 am, * *wrote:

I'm about to repair a sash window with some rot along the bottom of
the top sash. This will entail removing the staff and parting
beadings, and whilst out I'd like to apply draughtproofing. I see
various companies supply kits which consist of new beading with built
in brushes to stop the draught.

There are various methods of advancing complexity and cost. The most
economical would I think be to rout a groove myself into the beading
and apply the carrier and brush. If my beading is OK I could do the
whole house this way for about £75 whereas buying kits would be £900.

Has anybody tried this?

If so which of the beading is the brush applied to, and what's the
best way to seal the bottom edge of the lower sash?

Assuming you mean brush in slot, the brush goes into a slot in the
sides of the sliding sashes themselves.

NT

That's one way, but the DIY kits seem to fit it in the beading.

I've seen one professional version, the belt and braces method, which
has two lines of brushes on the ends of the sash, one in the staff
bead and one in the parting bead. That's 4 brushes each side of each
sash, but these are £100's per window. I'm hoping that a single line
of brush will give a worthwhile improvement though.

The Brush Pile Parting Bead looks interesting. If you can get that to
stay in the groove without fixings it looks like the best bet.
The problem with having brushes everywhere is getting the sashes to move
freely

Yes. Sliding sashes are fussy about adjustment, and brushes only makes
them more so.

FWIW there's an alternative to brushes, its jsut a very thin folded
strip of plastic sheet, less than 1mm thick, that fits in a slot and
presses itself gently against the wood. No issues with stiff
operation, it seems to last well, and does the job better than
brushes. I've not seen it on sale, I presume its very cheap, there's
little to it and I'm sure it would be easy to make your own, given the
right type of plastic - which one though I've no idea.

I had some of that many years ago and it worked very well on the doors I
put it on. Unfortunately, it has now hardened and some of it is cracked,
so I really need to replace it.

The only problem is that the roll I had is the only one I've ever seen -
and that was being sold off cheap in a sale!

Mine didn't fit in a slot though - you simply pinned onto one surface
before folding it into a vee shape.

It worked very well on the doors but I never thought of putting it on
the sash windows we had then - it would have done an excellent job!

It seems like an excellent product that never caught on, which is a
pity.

The problem with making your own would be the hinge bit down the middle
(which is where mine has broken after about 20 years).

Before folding, this part of it bears a marked similarity to the folds
in light cardboard boxes (like cereal packets) when you flatten them
out.

The folding plastic thing didn't work for me. One winter under
compression and they were as flat as a pancake. I think you'd need
silicone to retain springiness, possibly with a pvc skin for smooth running

I dont thinkyre meant to be squashed flat in use


NT

On Dec 29, 7:48*pm, NT wrote:
On Dec 29, 7:27*pm, stuart noble wrote:



On 29/12/2011 19:10, Terry Casey wrote:

In article8d97f79a-ba7c-4991-b41d-61cd97ff4544
@o14g2000vbo.googlegroups.com, says...

On Dec 29, 2:20 pm, stuart *wrote:
On 29/12/2011 12:38, andyv wrote:

On Dec 29, 11:08 am, * *wrote:
On Dec 29, 10:00 am, * *wrote:

I'm about to repair a sash window with some rot along the bottom of
the top sash. This will entail removing the staff and parting
beadings, and whilst out I'd like to apply draughtproofing. I see
various companies supply kits which consist of new beading with built
in brushes to stop the draught.

There are various methods of advancing complexity and cost. The most
economical would I think be to rout a groove myself into the beading
and apply the carrier and brush. If my beading is OK I could do the
whole house this way for about £75 whereas buying kits would be £900.

Has anybody tried this?

If so which of the beading is the brush applied to, and what's the
best way to seal the bottom edge of the lower sash?

Assuming you mean brush in slot, the brush goes into a slot in the
sides of the sliding sashes themselves.

NT

That's one way, but the DIY kits seem to fit it in the beading.

I've seen one professional version, the belt and braces method, which
has two lines of brushes on the ends of the sash, one in the staff
bead and one in the parting bead. That's 4 brushes each side of each
sash, but these are £100's per window. I'm hoping that a single line
of brush will give a worthwhile improvement though.

The Brush Pile Parting Bead looks interesting. If you can get that to
stay in the groove without fixings it looks like the best bet.
The problem with having brushes everywhere is getting the sashes to move
freely

Yes. Sliding sashes are fussy about adjustment, and brushes only makes
them more so.

FWIW there's an alternative to brushes, its jsut a very thin folded
strip of plastic sheet, less than 1mm thick, that fits in a slot and
presses itself gently against the wood. No issues with stiff
operation, it seems to last well, and does the job better than
brushes. I've not seen it on sale, I presume its very cheap, there's
little to it and I'm sure it would be easy to make your own, given the
right type of plastic - which one though I've no idea.

I had some of that many years ago and it worked very well on the doors I
put it on. Unfortunately, it has now hardened and some of it is cracked,
so I really need to replace it.

The only problem is that the roll I had is the only one I've ever seen -
and that was being sold off cheap in a sale!

Mine didn't fit in a slot though - you simply pinned onto one surface
before folding it into a vee shape.

It worked very well on the doors but I never thought of putting it on
the sash windows we had then - it would have done an excellent job!

It seems like an excellent product that never caught on, which is a
pity.

The problem with making your own would be the hinge bit down the middle
(which is where mine has broken after about 20 years).

Before folding, this part of it bears a marked similarity to the folds
in light cardboard boxes (like cereal packets) when you flatten them
out.

The folding plastic thing didn't work for me. One winter under
compression and they were as flat as a pancake. I think you'd need
silicone to retain springiness, possibly with a pvc skin for smooth running

I dont thinkyre meant to be squashed flat in use

NT

I just realised where you can get something similar for nothing. No
idea how long it will live. 2 litre drink bottles are determinedly
curved, a strip of that with suitably shaped ends should do the trick.


NT

On 29/12/2011 10:00, andyv wrote:
I'm about to repair a sash window with some rot along the bottom of
the top sash. This will entail removing the staff and parting
beadings, and whilst out I'd like to apply draughtproofing. I see
various companies supply kits which consist of new beading with built
in brushes to stop the draught.

There are various methods of advancing complexity and cost. The most
economical would I think be to rout a groove myself into the beading
and apply the carrier and brush. If my beading is OK I could do the
whole house this way for about £75 whereas buying kits would be £900.

Has anybody tried this?

If so which of the beading is the brush applied to, and what's the
best way to seal the bottom edge of the lower sash?

I've replaced the staff and parting beads on mine with new beading with
brushes already built in. You *may* be able to route suitable grooves
into existing beads and just buy the brushes and carriers - but you'd be
lucky to remove the old beads non-destructively, and they'd probably be
pretty brittle anyway - so might break whilst being machined or re-fitted.

I got my stuff from
http://www.reddiseals.com/sash-windo...aff-beads.html - using
primed staff and parting beads with the brushes already fitted.

The bottom of the lower sash was sealed simply by the brushes on the
bottom (horizontal) staff bead.

Contrary to what some people have said, I found the the sashes actually
slid more smoothly against the brushes than they previously did with
just paint to paint contact. Besides reducing (not totally eliminating)
the drafts, traffic noise was also reduced.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 10:48:54 -0800 (PST), NT wrote:

FWIW there's an alternative to brushes, its jsut a very thin folded
strip of plastic sheet, less than 1mm thick, that fits in a slot and
presses itself gently against the wood.

Could the copper atomic strip draft excluder be used?

http://atomicstrip.com/

It's ages since I had a close look at a sash window so there might
not be enough space/place to fit it.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Dec 29, 11:21*pm, Roger Mills wrote:
On 29/12/2011 10:00, andyv wrote:

I'm about to repair a sash window with some rot along the bottom of
the top sash. This will entail removing the staff and parting
beadings, and whilst out I'd like to apply draughtproofing. I see
various companies supply kits which consist of new beading with built
in brushes to stop the draught.

There are various methods of advancing complexity and cost. The most
economical would I think be to rout a groove myself into the beading
and apply the carrier and brush. If my beading is OK I could do the
whole house this way for about £75 whereas buying kits would be £900.

On 29/12/2011 19:48, NT wrote:
On Dec 29, 7:27 pm, stuart wrote:
On 29/12/2011 19:10, Terry Casey wrote:



In article8d97f79a-ba7c-4991-b41d-61cd97ff4544
@o14g2000vbo.googlegroups.com, says...

On Dec 29, 2:20 pm, stuart wrote:
On 29/12/2011 12:38, andyv wrote:

On Dec 29, 11:08 am, wrote:
On Dec 29, 10:00 am, wrote:

I'm about to repair a sash window with some rot along the bottom of
the top sash. This will entail removing the staff and parting
beadings, and whilst out I'd like to apply draughtproofing. I see
various companies supply kits which consist of new beading with built
in brushes to stop the draught.

There are various methods of advancing complexity and cost. The most
economical would I think be to rout a groove myself into the beading
and apply the carrier and brush. If my beading is OK I could do the
whole house this way for about £75 whereas buying kits would be £900.

Has anybody tried this?

If so which of the beading is the brush applied to, and what's the
best way to seal the bottom edge of the lower sash?

Assuming you mean brush in slot, the brush goes into a slot in the
sides of the sliding sashes themselves.

NT

That's one way, but the DIY kits seem to fit it in the beading.

I've seen one professional version, the belt and braces method, which
has two lines of brushes on the ends of the sash, one in the staff
bead and one in the parting bead. That's 4 brushes each side of each
sash, but these are £100's per window. I'm hoping that a single line
of brush will give a worthwhile improvement though.

The Brush Pile Parting Bead looks interesting. If you can get that to
stay in the groove without fixings it looks like the best bet.
The problem with having brushes everywhere is getting the sashes to move
freely

Yes. Sliding sashes are fussy about adjustment, and brushes only makes
them more so.

FWIW there's an alternative to brushes, its jsut a very thin folded
strip of plastic sheet, less than 1mm thick, that fits in a slot and
presses itself gently against the wood. No issues with stiff
operation, it seems to last well, and does the job better than
brushes. I've not seen it on sale, I presume its very cheap, there's
little to it and I'm sure it would be easy to make your own, given the
right type of plastic - which one though I've no idea.

I had some of that many years ago and it worked very well on the doors I
put it on. Unfortunately, it has now hardened and some of it is cracked,
so I really need to replace it.

The only problem is that the roll I had is the only one I've ever seen -
and that was being sold off cheap in a sale!

Mine didn't fit in a slot though - you simply pinned onto one surface
before folding it into a vee shape.

It worked very well on the doors but I never thought of putting it on
the sash windows we had then - it would have done an excellent job!

It seems like an excellent product that never caught on, which is a
pity.

The problem with making your own would be the hinge bit down the middle
(which is where mine has broken after about 20 years).

Before folding, this part of it bears a marked similarity to the folds
in light cardboard boxes (like cereal packets) when you flatten them
out.

The folding plastic thing didn't work for me. One winter under
compression and they were as flat as a pancake. I think you'd need
silicone to retain springiness, possibly with a pvc skin for smooth running

I dont thinkyre meant to be squashed flat in use


NT
It's always going to be squashed flat somewhere. If it loses its spring
it's no use

On 30/12/2011 09:34, andyv wrote:
On Dec 29, 11:21 pm, Roger wrote:


I've replaced the staff and parting beads on mine with new beading with
brushes already built in. You *may* be able to route suitable grooves
into existing beads and just buy the brushes and carriers - but you'd be
lucky to remove the old beads non-destructively, and they'd probably be
pretty brittle anyway - so might break whilst being machined or re-fitted.



Ah good somebody who's done it. Thanks Roger. There are two things I'm
puzzled about. With the inner staff bead do you fit it with brush all
the way up to the top, even the part where the sash only goes when
it's open or do you splice in a section of beading with no brush?

I did fit mine all the way to the top because it looks better and
there's no joint for anything to get caught on, but I suppose you
*could* splice in just the bottom section if you wanted to save money.


Similarly with the parting bead, you will need brush facing one way
for the bottom and the other way at the top. Do you splice two
sections together facing different ways?


Th brush faces outwards in order to seal the top sash when closed. The
bottom sash is sealed with the staff bead.


Actually a third thing. It seems there is a double barrier on the
lower sash but only a single on the upper because you can't refit the
outer bead as it's part of the box frame. Does this matter?

No there isn't. There's a single seal on each - provided by the staff
bead on the lower sash and the parting bead on the upper one.

They only need sealing when closed. When open, you're going to get a
howling gale anyway!
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On Dec 30, 6:31*pm, Roger Mills wrote:
On 30/12/2011 09:34, andyv wrote:

On Dec 29, 11:21 pm, Roger *wrote:

I've replaced the staff and parting beads on mine with new beading with
brushes already built in. You *may* be able to route suitable grooves
into existing beads and just buy the brushes and carriers - but you'd be
lucky to remove the old beads non-destructively, and they'd probably be
pretty brittle anyway - so might break whilst being machined or re-fitted.

Ah good somebody who's done it. Thanks Roger. There are two things I'm
puzzled about. With the inner staff bead *do you fit it with brush all
the way up to the top, even the part where the sash only goes when
it's open or do you splice in a section of beading with no brush?

I did fit mine all the way to the top because it looks better and
there's no joint for anything to get caught on, but I suppose you
*could* splice in just the bottom section if you wanted to save money.

Similarly with the parting bead, you will need brush facing one way
for the bottom and the other way at the top. Do you splice two
sections together facing different ways?

Th brush faces outwards in order to seal the top sash when closed. The
bottom sash is sealed with the staff bead.

Actually a third thing. It seems there is a double barrier on the
lower sash but only a single on the upper because you can't refit the
outer bead as it's part of the box frame. Does this matter?

No there isn't. There's a single seal on each - provided by the staff
bead on the lower sash and the parting bead on the upper one.

They only need sealing when closed. When open, you're going to get a
howling gale anyway!
--
Cheers,
Roger
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Ah it's beginning to make sense now. So the only bit that I'm not sure
about is where the the two sashes join in the middle. Do they provide
something for this in the kit?

On Dec 30, 6:31 pm, Roger Mills wrote:

intellesting....

how does it all cope with condensation from single glazing & modern
living? can it drain away through the seals on the mid-rails??

Cheers
Jim K

On Dec 30, 6:31*pm, Roger Mills wrote:
On 30/12/2011 09:34, andyv wrote:

On Dec 29, 11:21 pm, Roger *wrote:

I've replaced the staff and parting beads on mine with new beading with
brushes already built in. You *may* be able to route suitable grooves
into existing beads and just buy the brushes and carriers - but you'd be
lucky to remove the old beads non-destructively, and they'd probably be
pretty brittle anyway - so might break whilst being machined or re-fitted.

Ah good somebody who's done it. Thanks Roger. There are two things I'm
puzzled about. With the inner staff bead *do you fit it with brush all
the way up to the top, even the part where the sash only goes when
it's open or do you splice in a section of beading with no brush?

I did fit mine all the way to the top because it looks better and
there's no joint for anything to get caught on, but I suppose you
*could* splice in just the bottom section if you wanted to save money.

Similarly with the parting bead, you will need brush facing one way
for the bottom and the other way at the top. Do you splice two
sections together facing different ways?

Th brush faces outwards in order to seal the top sash when closed. The
bottom sash is sealed with the staff bead.

Actually a third thing. It seems there is a double barrier on the
lower sash but only a single on the upper because you can't refit the
outer bead as it's part of the box frame. Does this matter?

No there isn't. There's a single seal on each - provided by the staff
bead on the lower sash and the parting bead on the upper one.

They only need sealing when closed. When open, you're going to get a
howling gale anyway!
--
Cheers,
Roger
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checked.

Roger says "Th brush faces outwards in order to seal the top sash when
closed. The
bottom sash is sealed with the staff bead. "

I don't understand this for the bottom sash as any draught will flow
between the parting bead and the outside of the lower sash into the
cavity between the sash and the casing, and hence up into the room.
Certainly the staff bead seal will have an effect, but I find that if
I do a sticky tape seal over the staff bead and sash, then there is
still a distinct draught coming up beside the cord.

I like the OP am also unclear as to how to deal with the centre spars.

Rob

On 30/12/2011 18:57, andyv wrote:
On Dec 30, 6:31 pm, Roger wrote:
On 30/12/2011 09:34, andyv wrote:

On Dec 29, 11:21 pm, Roger wrote:

I've replaced the staff and parting beads on mine with new beading with
brushes already built in. You *may* be able to route suitable grooves
into existing beads and just buy the brushes and carriers - but you'd be
lucky to remove the old beads non-destructively, and they'd probably be
pretty brittle anyway - so might break whilst being machined or re-fitted.

Ah good somebody who's done it. Thanks Roger. There are two things I'm
puzzled about. With the inner staff bead do you fit it with brush all
the way up to the top, even the part where the sash only goes when
it's open or do you splice in a section of beading with no brush?

I did fit mine all the way to the top because it looks better and
there's no joint for anything to get caught on, but I suppose you
*could* splice in just the bottom section if you wanted to save money.

Similarly with the parting bead, you will need brush facing one way
for the bottom and the other way at the top. Do you splice two
sections together facing different ways?

Th brush faces outwards in order to seal the top sash when closed. The
bottom sash is sealed with the staff bead.

Actually a third thing. It seems there is a double barrier on the
lower sash but only a single on the upper because you can't refit the
outer bead as it's part of the box frame. Does this matter?

No there isn't. There's a single seal on each - provided by the staff
bead on the lower sash and the parting bead on the upper one.

They only need sealing when closed. When open, you're going to get a
howling gale anyway!


Ah it's beginning to make sense now. So the only bit that I'm not sure
about is where the the two sashes join in the middle. Do they provide
something for this in the kit?

The top rail of the lower sash is tapered on the outside, and the bottom
rail of the upper sash is tapered on the inside. When the upper sash is
fully up and the lower sash is fully down, these two tapers sort of lock
together - and are pulled tighter together when you do up the catch. If
you still get drafts between them, you can route a groove in one of the
tapered bits and insert some v-section draft strip which will then get
squeezed between the two tapers when the windows are closed.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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checked.

On 30/12/2011 21:26, robgraham wrote:
On Dec 30, 6:31 pm, Roger wrote:
On 30/12/2011 09:34, andyv wrote:

On Dec 29, 11:21 pm, Roger wrote:

I've replaced the staff and parting beads on mine with new beading with
brushes already built in. You *may* be able to route suitable grooves
into existing beads and just buy the brushes and carriers - but you'd be
lucky to remove the old beads non-destructively, and they'd probably be
pretty brittle anyway - so might break whilst being machined or re-fitted.

Ah good somebody who's done it. Thanks Roger. There are two things I'm
puzzled about. With the inner staff bead do you fit it with brush all
the way up to the top, even the part where the sash only goes when
it's open or do you splice in a section of beading with no brush?

I did fit mine all the way to the top because it looks better and
there's no joint for anything to get caught on, but I suppose you
*could* splice in just the bottom section if you wanted to save money.

Similarly with the parting bead, you will need brush facing one way
for the bottom and the other way at the top. Do you splice two
sections together facing different ways?

Th brush faces outwards in order to seal the top sash when closed. The
bottom sash is sealed with the staff bead.

Actually a third thing. It seems there is a double barrier on the
lower sash but only a single on the upper because you can't refit the
outer bead as it's part of the box frame. Does this matter?

No there isn't. There's a single seal on each - provided by the staff
bead on the lower sash and the parting bead on the upper one.

They only need sealing when closed. When open, you're going to get a
howling gale anyway!


Roger says "Th brush faces outwards in order to seal the top sash when
closed. The
bottom sash is sealed with the staff bead. "

I don't understand this for the bottom sash as any draught will flow
between the parting bead and the outside of the lower sash into the
cavity between the sash and the casing, and hence up into the room.
Certainly the staff bead seal will have an effect, but I find that if
I do a sticky tape seal over the staff bead and sash, then there is
still a distinct draught coming up beside the cord.

I like the OP am also unclear as to how to deal with the centre spars.

Rob

See my immediately previous post about the tapers on the centre spars.

I think I said in an even earlier post that these brushes *reduce*
rather than totally eliminate the drafts. There will still be a few
small gaps which drafts can get through - but nothing like those which
exist when there is clearance all the way up the beads.

There's quite a lot of useful information - including some 'how to'
videos on Mighton's site. Have a look at
http://www.mightonproducts.com/secti...tripping-beads
--
Cheers,
Roger
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checked.

On Dec 30, 11:15*pm, Roger Mills wrote:
On 30/12/2011 21:26, robgraham wrote:









On Dec 30, 6:31 pm, Roger *wrote:
On 30/12/2011 09:34, andyv wrote:

On Dec 29, 11:21 pm, Roger * *wrote:

I've replaced the staff and parting beads on mine with new beading with
brushes already built in. You *may* be able to route suitable grooves
into existing beads and just buy the brushes and carriers - but you'd be
lucky to remove the old beads non-destructively, and they'd probably be
pretty brittle anyway - so might break whilst being machined or re-fitted.

Ah good somebody who's done it. Thanks Roger. There are two things I'm
puzzled about. With the inner staff bead *do you fit it with brush all
the way up to the top, even the part where the sash only goes when
it's open or do you splice in a section of beading with no brush?

I did fit mine all the way to the top because it looks better and
there's no joint for anything to get caught on, but I suppose you
*could* splice in just the bottom section if you wanted to save money.

Similarly with the parting bead, you will need brush facing one way
for the bottom and the other way at the top. Do you splice two
sections together facing different ways?

Th brush faces outwards in order to seal the top sash when closed. The
bottom sash is sealed with the staff bead.

Actually a third thing. It seems there is a double barrier on the
lower sash but only a single on the upper because you can't refit the
outer bead as it's part of the box frame. Does this matter?

No there isn't. There's a single seal on each - provided by the staff
bead on the lower sash and the parting bead on the upper one.

They only need sealing when closed. When open, you're going to get a
howling gale anyway!

Roger says "Th brush faces outwards in order to seal the top sash when
closed. The
bottom sash is sealed with the staff bead. "

I don't understand this for the bottom sash as any draught will flow
between the parting bead and the outside of the lower sash into the
cavity between the sash and the casing, and hence up into the room.
Certainly the staff bead seal will have an effect, but I find that if
I do a sticky tape seal over the staff bead and sash, then there is
still a distinct draught coming up beside the cord.

I like the OP am also unclear as to how to deal with the centre spars.

Rob

See my immediately previous post about the tapers on the centre spars.

I think I said in an even earlier post that these brushes *reduce*
rather than totally eliminate the drafts. There will still be a few
small gaps which drafts can get through - but nothing like those which
exist when there is clearance all the way up the beads.

There's quite a lot of useful information - including some 'how to'
videos on Mighton's site. Have a look athttp://www.mightonproducts.com/section/15/1/sash-weatherstripping-beads
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
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checked.

Thanks for that Roger - the Mighton winged parting bead seems to
answer my point, though I would prefer a brush style rather than
wings.

Out of interest the name 'parting bead' is clearly obvious, but why
'Staff bead' ? I had to go and look that one up having always just
referred to is as the 'retaining bead'.

Rob

Thanks for that Roger - the Mighton winged parting bead seems to
answer my point, though I would prefer a brush style rather than
wings.


The wings may be more effective at forcing the upper sash outwards
against the box, although pushing it the other way against the parting
bead would be better. IME the gap is usually excessive due to wear on
the edge of the sash.
I tried sinking ball catches into the front of the upper sashes, and it
would have worked well had the springs been a little less rigid

On 31/12/2011 10:53, robgraham wrote:
On Dec 30, 11:15 pm, Roger wrote:

There's quite a lot of useful information - including some 'how to'
videos on Mighton's site. Have a look athttp://www.mightonproducts.com/section/15/1/sash-weatherstripping-beads


Thanks for that Roger - the Mighton winged parting bead seems to
answer my point, though I would prefer a brush style rather than
wings.

Yes, the winged sort would seal in both directions - but I really never
fancied it. I don't think you could make wooden parting bead with
brushes both sides, unfortunately.


Out of interest the name 'parting bead' is clearly obvious, but why
'Staff bead' ? I had to go and look that one up having always just
referred to is as the 'retaining bead'.


Dunno! I only started doing things to sash windows earlier this year -
and that's what they seem to be called - but I've never seen an
explanation for the name.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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checked.

On 31/12/2011 12:10, stuart noble wrote:

Thanks for that Roger - the Mighton winged parting bead seems to
answer my point, though I would prefer a brush style rather than
wings.


The wings may be more effective at forcing the upper sash outwards
against the box, although pushing it the other way against the parting
bead would be better. IME the gap is usually excessive due to wear on
the edge of the sash.
I tried sinking ball catches into the front of the upper sashes, and it
would have worked well had the springs been a little less rigid

I found that the brushes on the outside of the parting beads were about
the right thickness to take up the slack.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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checked.

On Dec 31 2011, 7:04*pm, Roger Mills wrote:
On 31/12/2011 10:53, robgraham wrote:

On Dec 30, 11:15 pm, Roger *wrote:

There's quite a lot of useful information - including some 'how to'
videos on Mighton's site. Have a look athttp://www.mightonproducts.com/section/15/1/sash-weatherstripping-beads

Thanks for that Roger - the Mighton winged parting bead seems to
answer my point, though I would prefer a brush style rather than
wings.

Yes, the winged sort would seal in both directions - but I really never
fancied it. I don't think you could make wooden parting bead with
brushes both sides, unfortunately.



Out of interest the name 'parting bead' is clearly obvious, but why
'Staff bead' ? *I had to go and look that one up having always just
referred to is as the 'retaining bead'.

Dunno! I only started doing things to sash windows earlier this year -
and that's what they seem to be called - but I've never seen an
explanation for the name.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
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checked.

I found this in an online dictionary

"5. a stick with some special use, such as a walking stick or an
emblem of authority
6. something that sustains or supports - 'bread is the staff of life'
"

Rob

On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 09:24:39 -0000, robgraham
wrote:



I found this in an online dictionary

"5. a stick with some special use, such as a walking stick or an
emblem of authority
6. something that sustains or supports - 'bread is the staff of life'
"

Rob

And I found this:

"An alternative method seen in older houses of forming a rounded or
bullnosed corner uses a quirked wooden staff bead. The staff bead, a 1
inch dowel with approx 1/3 shaved off the back, is set on the external
corner by the joiner on site, fastened to wooden plugs set into the
brick/block seams, or to the wood frame. Plaster is run up to the staff
bead and then cut back locally to the bead or "quirked" to avoid a weak
feather edge where the plaster meets the bead."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasterwork

Which descriptively fits the typical window staff bead fairly well, if not
in terms of how it s formed.

--
Rod