My Bosch has two pumps, two dispensers, a water inlet solenoid valve,
another solenoid valve (perhaps for resin regeneration?), and a heater.
That's seven "mains" devices to be switched.

The board has three triacs and four relays, so the numbers add up. But
why not all triacs? Perhaps the heater and the motor start currents are
beyond the rating of the tiny surface mount triacs?

I've had no success at all in locating a technical manual, in spite of
lots of potential leads. A marked contrast (for example) to combi
boilers where manuals seem to be readily available.

TIA

On 04/12/2011 11:12, Newshound wrote:
My Bosch has two pumps, two dispensers, a water inlet solenoid valve,
another solenoid valve (perhaps for resin regeneration?), and a heater.
That's seven "mains" devices to be switched.

The board has three triacs and four relays, so the numbers add up. But
why not all triacs? Perhaps the heater and the motor start currents are
beyond the rating of the tiny surface mount triacs?

I've had no success at all in locating a technical manual, in spite of
lots of potential leads. A marked contrast (for example) to combi
boilers where manuals seem to be readily available.

TIA

The timing of the operation of the triacs may be being used to adjust
the pump speeds and the heater output for different programs, whereas
the solenoids are just open or closed and relay is ok for that.

That's just my thoughts though.

SteveW

On Dec 4, 8:55*pm, Steve Walker -
family.me.uk wrote:
On 04/12/2011 11:12, Newshound wrote:

My Bosch has two pumps, two dispensers, a water inlet solenoid valve,
another solenoid valve (perhaps for resin regeneration?), and a heater.
That's seven "mains" devices to be switched.

The board has three triacs and four relays, so the numbers add up. But
why not all triacs? Perhaps the heater and the motor start currents are
beyond the rating of the tiny surface mount triacs?

I've had no success at all in locating a technical manual, in spite of
lots of potential leads. A marked contrast (for example) to combi
boilers where manuals seem to be readily available.

TIA

The timing of the operation of the triacs may be being used to adjust
the pump speeds and the heater output for different programs, whereas
the solenoids are just open or closed and relay is ok for that.

That's just my thoughts though.

SteveW

triacs are cheaper though, so why relays? I dont know, I wonder if
each is switching more than one circuit for some reason.


NT

On 04/12/2011 20:55, Steve Walker wrote:
On 04/12/2011 11:12, Newshound wrote:
My Bosch has two pumps, two dispensers, a water inlet solenoid valve,
another solenoid valve (perhaps for resin regeneration?), and a heater.
That's seven "mains" devices to be switched.

The board has three triacs and four relays, so the numbers add up. But
why not all triacs? Perhaps the heater and the motor start currents are
beyond the rating of the tiny surface mount triacs?

I've had no success at all in locating a technical manual, in spite of
lots of potential leads. A marked contrast (for example) to combi
boilers where manuals seem to be readily available.

TIA

The timing of the operation of the triacs may be being used to adjust
the pump speeds and the heater output for different programs, whereas
the solenoids are just open or closed and relay is ok for that.

That's just my thoughts though.

SteveW

Good point, I hadn't thought of that

triacs are cheaper though, so why relays? I dont know, I wonder if
each is switching more than one circuit for some reason.


NT

And triacs *should* give longer life (although it seems to be a triac
which has failed in this case).

I built a heater control system for my local brewery a few years ago
using "octal" base relays for a set of 3 kW immersion heaters and they
were OK, but didn't last all that long. Subsequently went over to "solid
state relays" which have been rather better.

As an aside on price, isn't it just astonishing how semiconductor prices
have come down. SMC triacs are about 50p each from Farnell, even singly.
I still remember buying my first four "low noise" transistors for a
turntable pre-amp, ten bob each; and that was two hours labour in a
petrol station in 1966. Mind you, that was more than two gallons of
petrol too....

On 04/12/2011 11:12, Newshound wrote:
My Bosch has two pumps, two dispensers, a water inlet solenoid valve,
another solenoid valve (perhaps for resin regeneration?), and a heater.
That's seven "mains" devices to be switched.

The board has three triacs and four relays, so the numbers add up. But
why not all triacs? Perhaps the heater and the motor start currents are
beyond the rating of the tiny surface mount triacs?

I've had no success at all in locating a technical manual, in spite of
lots of potential leads. A marked contrast (for example) to combi
boilers where manuals seem to be readily available.

TIA

I had to look up "resin regeneration" because I hadn't heard the term
before.
I wonder how many of these machines with the additional sophistication
and expense get installed in soft water areas?

--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On 06/12/2011 21:36, Graham. wrote:
On 04/12/2011 11:12, Newshound wrote:
My Bosch has two pumps, two dispensers, a water inlet solenoid valve,
another solenoid valve (perhaps for resin regeneration?), and a heater.
That's seven "mains" devices to be switched.

The board has three triacs and four relays, so the numbers add up. But
why not all triacs? Perhaps the heater and the motor start currents are
beyond the rating of the tiny surface mount triacs?

I've had no success at all in locating a technical manual, in spite of
lots of potential leads. A marked contrast (for example) to combi
boilers where manuals seem to be readily available.

TIA

I had to look up "resin regeneration" because I hadn't heard the term
before.
I wonder how many of these machines with the additional sophistication
and expense get installed in soft water areas?

I think that all dishwashers have the water softening resin and a system
to regenerate it using salt. For those of us in soft water areas, we
just don't use salt - although many dishwasher tablets are now tailored
to regenerate the resin.

Personally I am always amused by the numerous adverts for Calgon
limescale remover that are shown in soft water areas.

SteveW

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...

I think that all dishwashers have the water softening resin and a system
to regenerate it using salt. For those of us in soft water areas, we just
don't use salt - although many dishwasher tablets are now tailored to
regenerate the resin.

That is untrue, in fact its a lie the "salt action" marketers made up.
It can't regenerate the resin as only the clean tap water + salt goes over
the resin, not the dirty water with the tablet in.


Personally I am always amused by the numerous adverts for Calgon limescale
remover that are shown in soft water areas.

Dishwashers don't scale up in hard water areas either as they have a water
softener.

Graham. wrote:
On 04/12/2011 11:12, Newshound wrote:
My Bosch has two pumps, two dispensers, a water inlet solenoid valve,
another solenoid valve (perhaps for resin regeneration?), and a heater.
That's seven "mains" devices to be switched.

The board has three triacs and four relays, so the numbers add up. But
why not all triacs? Perhaps the heater and the motor start currents are
beyond the rating of the tiny surface mount triacs?

I've had no success at all in locating a technical manual, in spite of
lots of potential leads. A marked contrast (for example) to combi
boilers where manuals seem to be readily available.

TIA

I had to look up "resin regeneration" because I hadn't heard the term
before.
I wonder how many of these machines with the additional sophistication
and expense get installed in soft water areas?

exactly. Mine ran for 7 years with no salt at all. Gotta sofna ainti?

Now its totally ****ed itself - its a hotpoint - an I need to get a
bloody miele.

In article ,
Steve Walker writes:

I think that all dishwashers have the water softening resin and a system
to regenerate it using salt. For those of us in soft water areas, we
just don't use salt - although many dishwasher tablets are now tailored
to regenerate the resin.

The tablets don't regenerate the resin, they soften the water after
it's gone into the wash chamber. They work out much more expensive
than using standard powder or liquid detergents and keeping the salt
and rinse aid topped up, and with tablets, you can't dose according
to expected washing requirement so it's max dose every time regardless
of requirements.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Dec 10, 9:56*am, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,
* * * * Steve Walker writes:



I think that all dishwashers have the water softening resin and a system
to regenerate it using salt. For those of us in soft water areas, we
just don't use salt - although many dishwasher tablets are now tailored
to regenerate the resin.

The tablets don't regenerate the resin, they soften the water after
it's gone into the wash chamber. They work out much more expensive
than using standard powder or liquid detergents and keeping the salt
and rinse aid topped up, and with tablets, you can't dose according
to expected washing requirement so it's max dose every time regardless
of requirements.

Really? Where do you get powder that works out cheaper?


NT

On Sat, 10 Dec 2011 05:16:39 -0800, NT wrote:

On Dec 10, 9:56Â*am, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
In article ,
Â* Â* Â* Â* Steve Walker
Â* Â* Â* Â* writes:



I think that all dishwashers have the water softening resin and a
system to regenerate it using salt. For those of us in soft water
areas, we just don't use salt - although many dishwasher tablets are
now tailored to regenerate the resin.

The tablets don't regenerate the resin, they soften the water after
it's gone into the wash chamber. They work out much more expensive than
using standard powder or liquid detergents and keeping the salt and
rinse aid topped up, and with tablets, you can't dose according to
expected washing requirement so it's max dose every time regardless of
requirements.

Really? Where do you get powder that works out cheaper?

CPC.
--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Dec 10, 1:57*pm, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 10 Dec 2011 05:16:39 -0800, NT wrote:
On Dec 10, 9:56*am, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
In article ,
* * * * Steve Walker
* * * * writes:

I think that all dishwashers have the water softening resin and a
system to regenerate it using salt. For those of us in soft water
areas, we just don't use salt - although many dishwasher tablets are
now tailored to regenerate the resin.

The tablets don't regenerate the resin, they soften the water after
it's gone into the wash chamber. They work out much more expensive than
using standard powder or liquid detergents and keeping the salt and
rinse aid topped up, and with tablets, you can't dose according to
expected washing requirement so it's max dose every time regardless of
requirements.

Really? Where do you get powder that works out cheaper?

CPC.

I cuoldnt find delivery price or rinse aid on there. I expect with
those added it works out more expensive than basic tablets.


NT

On Sat, 10 Dec 2011 06:59:33 -0800, NT wrote:

On Dec 10, 1:57Â*pm, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 10 Dec 2011 05:16:39 -0800, NT wrote:
On Dec 10, 9:56Â*am, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,
Â* Â* Â* Â* Steve Walker
Â* Â* Â* Â* writes:

I think that all dishwashers have the water softening resin and a
system to regenerate it using salt. For those of us in soft water
areas, we just don't use salt - although many dishwasher tablets
are now tailored to regenerate the resin.

The tablets don't regenerate the resin, they soften the water after
it's gone into the wash chamber. They work out much more expensive
than using standard powder or liquid detergents and keeping the salt
and rinse aid topped up, and with tablets, you can't dose according
to expected washing requirement so it's max dose every time
regardless of requirements.

Really? Where do you get powder that works out cheaper?

CPC.

I cuoldnt find delivery price or rinse aid on there. I expect with those
added it works out more expensive than basic tablets.

When I worked it out, it came out about half.

You asked about powder, not rinse aid...if you bought enough, delivery
would be free. Delivery is free over £45, but I assume most people on
here use CPC for other stuff. As for rinse aid and salt, I get them at
Costco (look out for me tomorrow afternoon in the Thurrock one!)



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Sat, 10 Dec 2011 15:09:45 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

On Sat, 10 Dec 2011 06:59:33 -0800, NT wrote:

On Dec 10, 1:57Â*pm, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 10 Dec 2011 05:16:39 -0800, NT wrote:
On Dec 10, 9:56Â*am, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,
Â* Â* Â* Â* Steve Walker
Â* Â* Â* Â* writes:

I think that all dishwashers have the water softening resin and a
system to regenerate it using salt. For those of us in soft water
areas, we just don't use salt - although many dishwasher tablets
are now tailored to regenerate the resin.

The tablets don't regenerate the resin, they soften the water after
it's gone into the wash chamber. They work out much more expensive
than using standard powder or liquid detergents and keeping the
salt and rinse aid topped up, and with tablets, you can't dose
according to expected washing requirement so it's max dose every
time regardless of requirements.

Really? Where do you get powder that works out cheaper?

CPC.

I cuoldnt find delivery price or rinse aid on there. I expect with
those added it works out more expensive than basic tablets.

When I worked it out, it came out about half.

You asked about powder, not rinse aid...if you bought enough, delivery
would be free. Delivery is free over £45, but I assume most people on
here use CPC for other stuff. As for rinse aid and salt, I get them at
Costco (look out for me tomorrow afternoon in the Thurrock one!)

To save a wasted journey (!) I should correct that...I'm going on Monday!



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor