I live in a small part of a very large building (an old orphanage).
Strangely, there are no downpipes from the gutters
in the front of the 4-storey building.
All the water is transferred to downpipes at the back of the building.
Unfortunately the water goes over a valley in our part of the building.
The quantity of water after a heavy rainfall is immense;
it sounds as though a large river is running over one's head.
There is occasionally a slight leak through the ceiling at one point.

I'd like to put up a downpipe in the front of the building.
There is a place where this would not be obtrusive.
I would collect the water in a tank below.

Unfortunately two builders I have consulted have given different opinions.
One (a roofing expert) says that it is not possible
to attach a downpipe to the gutters, because these are cast iron.
The other expert says he can do it.

I wonder if anyone has a view on this?

--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 13:55:58 +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote:
Unfortunately two builders I have consulted have given different
opinions. One (a roofing expert) says that it is not possible to attach
a downpipe to the gutters, because these are cast iron. The other expert
says he can do it.

I think it could be cut - but I don't know if an off-the-shelf adapter
exists to sit between the gutter and downpipe, so you (or someone) might
have to make something.

What's the deal with the incline, though - aren't the existing gutters
inclined so that water runs to the back of the building?

cheers

Jules

In article , Timothy Murphy
writes

I live in a small part of a very large building (an old orphanage).
Strangely, there are no downpipes from the gutters
in the front of the 4-storey building.
All the water is transferred to downpipes at the back of the building.
Unfortunately the water goes over a valley in our part of the building.
The quantity of water after a heavy rainfall is immense;
it sounds as though a large river is running over one's head.
There is occasionally a slight leak through the ceiling at one point.

I'd like to put up a downpipe in the front of the building.
There is a place where this would not be obtrusive.
I would collect the water in a tank below.

Unfortunately two builders I have consulted have given different opinions.
One (a roofing expert) says that it is not possible
to attach a downpipe to the gutters, because these are cast iron.
The other expert says he can do it.

I wonder if anyone has a view on this?

There is absolutely no problem with breaking into any guttering system
and inserting a downpipe, even if in the extreme it involves fabrication
of special parts, anything is possible.

The difficulty I think you have is that you mentioned in your previous
thread on this subject that the building is listed and subject to quite
tight controls and until that issue is dealt with you are fookd.

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.d-...f169537d53353/

--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

fred wrote:

I'd like to put up a downpipe in the front of the building.
There is a place where this would not be obtrusive.
I would collect the water in a tank below.

There is absolutely no problem with breaking into any guttering system
and inserting a downpipe, even if in the extreme it involves fabrication
of special parts, anything is possible.

The difficulty I think you have is that you mentioned in your previous
thread on this subject that the building is listed and subject to quite
tight controls and until that issue is dealt with you are fookd.

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.d-..._thread/thread
/d1f169537d53353/

Thanks for your response.
I think the authorities here have had a change of heart,
and anything that creates jobs is good.
In fact the downpipe would be more or less invisible,
as there is a corner it fit into.

Also, the other end of the building is owned by a property developer
who has gone bust, and his part of the building is in very bad repair.
Hopefully the council will worry more about that.

--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

Jules Richardson wrote:

Unfortunately two builders I have consulted have given different
opinions. One (a roofing expert) says that it is not possible to attach
a downpipe to the gutters, because these are cast iron. The other expert
says he can do it.

I think it could be cut - but I don't know if an off-the-shelf adapter
exists to sit between the gutter and downpipe, so you (or someone) might
have to make something.

What's the deal with the incline, though - aren't the existing gutters
inclined so that water runs to the back of the building?

Thanks for your response.

The water does run to the back of the building,
but over our valley.
We are at the lowest part of the building,
so all the water on the roof naturally comes to our section.


--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

I'd like to put up a downpipe in the front of the building.
There is a place where this would not be obtrusive.
I would collect the water in a tank below.

I am unclear as to why you would need a tank, where it would be put to
avoid being unsightly*, and where the water would go when the tank
became full?

Or, if metal, stolen.
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 13:55:58 +0100, Timothy Murphy
wrote:


Unfortunately two builders I have consulted have given different opinions.
One (a roofing expert) says that it is not possible
to attach a downpipe to the gutters, because these are cast iron.
The other expert says he can do it.

I wonder if anyone has a view on this?

Technically it isn't a problem, although the guttering doesn't appear
to be standard so you may need to get a piece fabricated.


However, if this


http://building19thcenturyireland.fi...0/img_3402.jpg

is the building and it is listed I doubt you would persuade a listed
buildings officer to allow you to do it.

In article , Timothy Murphy
writes
fred wrote:

I'd like to put up a downpipe in the front of the building.
There is a place where this would not be obtrusive.
I would collect the water in a tank below.

There is absolutely no problem with breaking into any guttering system
and inserting a downpipe, even if in the extreme it involves fabrication
of special parts, anything is possible.

The difficulty I think you have is that you mentioned in your previous
thread on this subject that the building is listed and subject to quite
tight controls and until that issue is dealt with you are fookd.

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.d-..._thread/thread
/d1f169537d53353/

Thanks for your response.
I think the authorities here have had a change of heart,
and anything that creates jobs is good.
In fact the downpipe would be more or less invisible,
as there is a corner it fit into.

That sounds like great news.

The detail of what you are going to do depends on whether the guttering
in simple half round or in complex profiles which will dictate whether
standard parts are available off the shelf or not. The worst I can
imagine would be the fabrication of a lead collector of whatever size
was required with appropriate sealing into the existing setup but
perhaps it's time to ask the can-do guy how he would go about the job
and reassure him that it is to assess the integrity of the final result
rather than tout his design around in order to get cheaper quotes.

I'm familiar with a building that has lead lined stone gutters on the
decorative front elevation, they're very nicely done and absolutely
watertight.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

I am unclear as to why you would need a tank, where it would be put to
avoid being unsightly*, and where the water would go when the tank
became full?

I doubt building regs would accept a tank. Also much new legislation
about soakaways and not overloading public drainage with sudden surges.

On 10/11/2011 12:55, Timothy Murphy wrote:

I live in a small part of a very large building (an old orphanage).
Strangely, there are no downpipes from the gutters
in the front of the 4-storey building.
All the water is transferred to downpipes at the back of the building.
Unfortunately the water goes over a valley in our part of the building.
The quantity of water after a heavy rainfall is immense;
it sounds as though a large river is running over one's head.
There is occasionally a slight leak through the ceiling at one point.

I'd like to put up a downpipe in the front of the building.
There is a place where this would not be obtrusive.
I would collect the water in a tank below.

Unfortunately two builders I have consulted have given different opinions.
One (a roofing expert) says that it is not possible
to attach a downpipe to the gutters, because these are cast iron.
The other expert says he can do it.

I wonder if anyone has a view on this?

Would it be possible to extend the downpipe(s) that empty into your
valley, so that the water bypasses it?

Colin Bignell

Also much new legislation
about soakaways and not overloading public drainage with sudden
surges.

Ah: while I knew the Republic of Ireland liked SUDS I thought their
legislation only required it for new developments in Dublin.

Is their new legisaltion as tight as ours for "front gardens"?
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

In article , Timothy Murphy
writes

I live in a small part of a very large building (an old orphanage).
Strangely, there are no downpipes from the gutters
in the front of the 4-storey building.
All the water is transferred to downpipes at the back of the building.
Unfortunately the water goes over a valley in our part of the building.
The quantity of water after a heavy rainfall is immense;
it sounds as though a large river is running over one's head.
There is occasionally a slight leak through the ceiling at one point.

I meant to ask you if you had any access to the valley from your
property and whether it was reasonably deep?

Using tangential thinking[1] I wondered if lining the valley with
something like astroturf might reduce the noise from the water flow or
any resonances in the lead (is it lead?) and improve the situation.

[1] I used to enjoy it more when I misspelled it tangenital thinking.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

Peter Parry wrote:

Unfortunately two builders I have consulted have given different opinions.
One (a roofing expert) says that it is not possible
to attach a downpipe to the gutters, because these are cast iron.
The other expert says he can do it.

Technically it isn't a problem, although the guttering doesn't appear
to be standard so you may need to get a piece fabricated.

However, if this

http://building19thcenturyireland.fi...0/img_3402.jpg

is the building and it is listed I doubt you would persuade a listed
buildings officer to allow you to do it.

That is indeed the building.
The picture makes it look more imposing than it is.
I always tell visitors they will recognise it
because it looks like a mental hospital or a prison.

My proposed downpipe would go in the inset corner in the picture.
I'll see what the Listed Buildings office says.
They used to be very strict, but seem to have become less so.

--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

fred wrote:

I live in a small part of a very large building (an old orphanage).
Strangely, there are no downpipes from the gutters
in the front of the 4-storey building.
All the water is transferred to downpipes at the back of the building.
Unfortunately the water goes over a valley in our part of the building.
The quantity of water after a heavy rainfall is immense;
it sounds as though a large river is running over one's head.
There is occasionally a slight leak through the ceiling at one point.

I meant to ask you if you had any access to the valley from your
property and whether it was reasonably deep?

Yes, there is easy access to the valley through a skylight.

Using tangential thinking[1] I wondered if lining the valley with
something like astroturf might reduce the noise from the water flow or
any resonances in the lead (is it lead?) and improve the situation.

I'm not sure if the flashing is lead.
Probably, as I imagine it is original.
Actually, I don't mind the noise so much;
it is more the idea of the quantity of water going over our heads.


--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

Nightjar wrote:

I live in a small part of a very large building (an old orphanage).
Strangely, there are no downpipes from the gutters
in the front of the 4-storey building.
All the water is transferred to downpipes at the back of the building.
Unfortunately the water goes over a valley in our part of the building.
The quantity of water after a heavy rainfall is immense;
it sounds as though a large river is running over one's head.
There is occasionally a slight leak through the ceiling at one point.

Would it be possible to extend the downpipe(s) that empty into your
valley, so that the water bypasses it?

Possibly.
The problem is that a 1-storey extension was added about 30 years ago
at the back, with the result that the water goes down onto a flat roof,
and the owner of this is concerned at this,
particularly after the exceptional downpour last month.

--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

Robin wrote:

I'd like to put up a downpipe in the front of the building.
There is a place where this would not be obtrusive.
I would collect the water in a tank below.

I am unclear as to why you would need a tank, where it would be put to
avoid being unsightly*, and where the water would go when the tank
became full?

I was thinking of using it to water the small front garden.
The idea occurred to me because a friend who has built
what she calls an "eco-house" mentioned saving the rain-water
as one of the virtues of the house.

--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

Robin wrote:

Also much new legislation
about soakaways and not overloading public drainage with sudden
surges.

Ah: while I knew the Republic of Ireland liked SUDS I thought their
legislation only required it for new developments in Dublin.

Is their new legisaltion as tight as ours for "front gardens"?

I think it is quite strict about anything in the front of a house,
though a man just opposite us has just build a very large garage
in front of his beautiful georgian house.
He doesn't seem to have got permission for this,
and we are wondering whether to cause a civil war
by asking the authorities if it is allowed ...

--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

On 10/11/2011 23:52, Timothy Murphy wrote:
Nightjar wrote:

I live in a small part of a very large building (an old orphanage).
Strangely, there are no downpipes from the gutters
in the front of the 4-storey building.
All the water is transferred to downpipes at the back of the building.
Unfortunately the water goes over a valley in our part of the building.
The quantity of water after a heavy rainfall is immense;
it sounds as though a large river is running over one's head.
There is occasionally a slight leak through the ceiling at one point.

Would it be possible to extend the downpipe(s) that empty into your
valley, so that the water bypasses it?

Possibly.
The problem is that a 1-storey extension was added about 30 years ago
at the back, with the result that the water goes down onto a flat roof,
and the owner of this is concerned at this,
particularly after the exceptional downpour last month.

If you are extending the downpipe, it could also bypass the flat roof.

Colin Bignell

On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 00:56:13 +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote:

I am unclear as to why you would need a tank, where it would be
put to
avoid being unsightly*, and where the water would go when the tank
became full?

I was thinking of using it to water the small front garden.

Yes a small 250l water butt will do that but when it rains it will
fill in minets and that's from an ordinary domestic roof not a couple
of acres like yours. B-)

1l is 1mm over 1m2.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:

I was thinking of using the tank to water the small front garden.

Yes a small 250l water butt will do that but when it rains it will
fill in minets and that's from an ordinary domestic roof not a couple
of acres like yours. B-)

1l is 1mm over 1m2.

I think there was 100mm of rain in one day in our recent deluge,
so I guess a large tank might be necessary ...

--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

On 10/11/11 23:48, Timothy Murphy wrote:
fred wrote:

I live in a small part of a very large building (an old orphanage).
Strangely, there are no downpipes from the gutters
in the front of the 4-storey building.
All the water is transferred to downpipes at the back of the building.
Unfortunately the water goes over a valley in our part of the building.
The quantity of water after a heavy rainfall is immense;
it sounds as though a large river is running over one's head.
There is occasionally a slight leak through the ceiling at one point.

I meant to ask you if you had any access to the valley from your
property and whether it was reasonably deep?

Yes, there is easy access to the valley through a skylight.

Using tangential thinking[1] I wondered if lining the valley with
something like astroturf might reduce the noise from the water flow or
any resonances in the lead (is it lead?) and improve the situation.

I'm not sure if the flashing is lead.
Probably, as I imagine it is original.
Actually, I don't mind the noise so much;
it is more the idea of the quantity of water going over our heads.


maybe you could put a big plastic gutter on top of the valley
and direct the downpipes into it
so that 95% of the water goes along it.

In torrential downpours the water will go everywhere.

My lead valleys freeze over in the winter,
then when the thaw comes the ice melts in the wrong order
and water escapes between the joins in the lead
and comes into the house#
so I get upon the roof and bash it,
trying to not damage the lead!

[g]