Breifly, the next-door neighbour has plastic, square guttering on their side
of the two semi's. We have the original round guttering which feeds a cast iron
outlet into the downpipe. The gutter leaks badly where the square and round
types meet.
It turns out that while the new guttering does actually have a square-round
adapter, this has merely been placed into the downpipe's outlet with no sealant
or physical attachment - it just flaps around in the wind and rain.

While up t' laddter today I decided to see what remedies were possible. The
round outlet has two screw-holes in its base. The side that goes to the half-
round guttering is screwed onto the outlet, the side that goes to the adapter
isn't - it's just loose. This appears to be because of a mismatch in the
"systems": modern outlets have a rubber seal to make a watertight joint, the
original cast iron outlet expects the guttering to be screw in and doesn't
have a gasket.
The plan is to bed the loose end of the adpater into some adhesive goop and
possibly to drill a hole up through the adapter to form a physical attachment
(as opposed to simply an emotional one). Though I'm a little dubious whether
a hole + metal screw would stand the test of time.

So, the question is: do I need to consider thermal expansion in the joint?
Would an adhesive ultimately fail due to movement, and/or should a screw-hole
in the bottom of the adapter be elongated to allow expansion along it's length?

root wrote:
Breifly, the next-door neighbour has plastic, square guttering on
their side of the two semi's. We have the original round guttering
which feeds a cast iron outlet into the downpipe. The gutter leaks
badly where the square and round types meet.
It turns out that while the new guttering does actually have a
square-round adapter, this has merely been placed into the
downpipe's outlet with no sealant or physical attachment - it just
flaps around in the wind and rain.

While up t' laddter today I decided to see what remedies were
possible. The round outlet has two screw-holes in its base. The side
that goes to the half- round guttering is screwed onto the outlet,
the side that goes to the adapter isn't - it's just loose. This
appears to be because of a mismatch in the "systems": modern outlets
have a rubber seal to make a watertight joint, the original cast iron
outlet expects the guttering to be screw in and doesn't have a gasket.
The plan is to bed the loose end of the adpater into some adhesive
goop and possibly to drill a hole up through the adapter to form a
physical attachment (as opposed to simply an emotional one). Though
I'm a little dubious whether
a hole + metal screw would stand the test of time.

So, the question is: do I need to consider thermal expansion in the
joint? Would an adhesive ultimately fail due to movement, and/or
should a screw-hole in the bottom of the adapter be elongated to
allow expansion along it's length?


I've read this about 8 or 9 times and I've still no idea what you are on
about.

Where is the outlet?

Are you referring to the square - round adapter as an outet?

Why not just spend £25 and get yourself some new square gutter and clips and
join onto next doors' new stuff?

On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 20:25:56 +0100, Phil L wrote:
root wrote:
Breifly, the next-door neighbour has plastic, square guttering on
their side of the two semi's. We have the original round guttering
which feeds a cast iron outlet into the downpipe. The gutter leaks
badly where the square and round types meet.
It turns out that while the new guttering does actually have a
square-round adapter, this has merely been placed into the
downpipe's outlet with no sealant or physical attachment - it just
flaps around in the wind and rain.

While up t' laddter today I decided to see what remedies were
possible. The round outlet has two screw-holes in its base. The side
that goes to the half- round guttering is screwed onto the outlet,
the side that goes to the adapter isn't - it's just loose. This
appears to be because of a mismatch in the "systems": modern outlets
have a rubber seal to make a watertight joint, the original cast iron
outlet expects the guttering to be screw in and doesn't have a gasket.
The plan is to bed the loose end of the adpater into some adhesive
goop and possibly to drill a hole up through the adapter to form a
physical attachment (as opposed to simply an emotional one). Though
I'm a little dubious whether
a hole + metal screw would stand the test of time.

So, the question is: do I need to consider thermal expansion in the
joint? Would an adhesive ultimately fail due to movement, and/or
should a screw-hole in the bottom of the adapter be elongated to
allow expansion along it's length?


I've read this about 8 or 9 times and I've still no idea what you are on
about.

Let's see if this helps.
2 Semis, common, round, downpipe which I'm told is "mine" i.e. the downpipe
is on my side of the boundary.. The downpipe and the outlet (this is what
an outlet looks like, though this is a modern, plastic one, not a metal
type.
http://s7g3.scene7.com/is/image/ae23...8&op_sharpen=1 )
are made of iron. All the guttering is plastic. On our side the guttering
is half-round, on the neighbours side it's square with an adapter. This is an
adapter:
http://s7g3.scene7.com/is/image/ae23...8&op_sharpen=1

The square side of the adapter is connected to the square guttering. The
round side of the adapter is connected to .... nothing. It merely sits on
top of the (round) outlet and therefore leaks. From it's design (see photo)
it should clip into a short section of half-round gutter, which is then
connected to the outlet. This is not how the neighbour's gutter-er installed
it many years ago. They just laid it on the existing outlet, hoped it wouldn't
rain before their cheque was cashed and high-tailed it off, into the sunset.

The question is about securing a watertight connection between the round side of
the existing adapter and the round profile of the existing outlet.

root wrote:

The question is about securing a watertight connection between the
round side of the existing adapter and the round profile of the
existing outlet.

Right, so the downpipe is more or less where the two types of guttering
join - this makes it much clearer.

There is a cast iron running outlet and the square to round plastic adapter
sits on this.

Whatever you decide to use, it probably won't last very long, cast iron is
an arse to drill through and silicone doesn't adhere very well, my advice is
to splash out on some new square guttering and clips - I replaced some last
week.
The gutters were about £9 for a 5m length and the clips about £1.50 each,
end cap about £2 and running outlet about £4

On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 18:00:32 +0000 (UTC), root
wrote:

Breifly, the next-door neighbour has plastic, square guttering on their side
of the two semi's. We have the original round guttering which feeds a cast iron
outlet into the downpipe. The gutter leaks badly where the square and round
types meet.
It turns out that while the new guttering does actually have a square-round
adapter, this has merely been placed into the downpipe's outlet with no sealant
or physical attachment - it just flaps around in the wind and rain.

While up t' laddter today I decided to see what remedies were possible. The
round outlet has two screw-holes in its base. The side that goes to the half-
round guttering is screwed onto the outlet, the side that goes to the adapter
isn't - it's just loose. This appears to be because of a mismatch in the
"systems": modern outlets have a rubber seal to make a watertight joint, the
original cast iron outlet expects the guttering to be screw in and doesn't
have a gasket.

Look at this from a pragmatic POV. Your neighbour relies on _your_
downpipe so he should ensure that _his_ guttering arrangement is
compatible with _yours_, especially as yours is the original.

Perhaps the NDN could contribute to the maintenance (e.g. painting;
unblocking) of the "common" parts of the arrangement.

I have a similar setup, but have (yet) had no complications.

--
Frank Erskine
Sunderland

On Oct 29, 6:00*pm, root wrote:
Breifly, the next-door neighbour has plastic, square guttering on their side
of the two semi's. We have the original round guttering which feeds a cast iron
outlet into the downpipe. The gutter leaks badly where the square and round
types meet.
It turns out that while the new guttering does actually have a square-round
adapter, this has merely been placed into the downpipe's outlet with no sealant
or physical attachment - it just flaps around in the wind and rain.

While up t' laddter today I decided to see what remedies were possible. The
round outlet has two screw-holes in its base. The side that goes to the half-
round guttering is screwed onto the outlet, the side that goes to the adapter
isn't - it's just loose. This appears to be because of a mismatch in the
"systems": modern outlets have a rubber seal to make a watertight joint, the
original cast iron outlet expects the guttering to be screw in and doesn't
have a gasket.
The plan is to bed the loose end of the adpater into some adhesive goop and
possibly to drill a hole up through the adapter to form a physical attachment
(as opposed to simply an emotional one). Though I'm a little dubious whether
a hole + metal screw would stand the test of time.

So, the question is: do I need to consider thermal expansion in the joint?
Would an adhesive ultimately fail due to movement, and/or should a screw-hole
in the bottom of the adapter be elongated to allow expansion along it's length?

Temporaryish repair can be made if you clean up,bitumous paint and
then flashband on the inside. Lasts a couple of years.

On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 23:35:43 +0100, Frank Erskine wrote:
On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 18:00:32 +0000 (UTC), root
wrote:

Breifly, the next-door neighbour has plastic, square guttering on their side
of the two semi's. We have the original round guttering which feeds a cast iron
outlet into the downpipe. The gutter leaks badly where the square and round
types meet.
It turns out that while the new guttering does actually have a square-round
adapter, this has merely been placed into the downpipe's outlet with no sealant
or physical attachment - it just flaps around in the wind and rain.

While up t' laddter today I decided to see what remedies were possible. The
round outlet has two screw-holes in its base. The side that goes to the half-
round guttering is screwed onto the outlet, the side that goes to the adapter
isn't - it's just loose. This appears to be because of a mismatch in the
"systems": modern outlets have a rubber seal to make a watertight joint, the
original cast iron outlet expects the guttering to be screw in and doesn't
have a gasket.

Look at this from a pragmatic POV. Your neighbour relies on _your_
downpipe so he should ensure that _his_ guttering arrangement is
compatible with _yours_, especially as yours is the original.

Perhaps the NDN could contribute to the maintenance (e.g. painting;
unblocking) of the "common" parts of the arrangement.

I have a similar setup, but have (yet) had no complications.

Yes, that's always been my position - however for the 5 years or so that
this has been ongoing, no progress to my gentle hints has resulted in
action. I'm well past the point of "principles" and who's responsibility
this is - I'm in a position to fix it as I've been clearing the back gutter
and am now starting on the front one - and if that's what the neigbours
have been waiting for then fine - they win, big deal! It doesn't matter.

The problem has always been that since a previous occupier, not
the current one, was persuaded to replace their perfectly good gutters
with something that was (a) unsuitable and (b) poorly installed every
bout of heavy rain has seen rainwater pouring out of this connection.

To take your pragmatic view, for the sake of half an hour up a ladder I
should be able to seal the "joint" and make it more permanent with a
screw to keep it all in place. I'm under no illusions that a squirt of
mastic will provide a permanent solution, hence the need for mechanical
fixings.

Fortunately the existing outlet was made with a screw-hole for what looks
like a 1/4 inch (yes, it's 50 years old) CSK, which is what's keeping my
side of the gutter conencted to the outlet.

In message , root
writes
On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 23:35:43 +0100, Frank Erskine wrote:
On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 18:00:32 +0000 (UTC), root
wrote:

Breifly, the next-door neighbour has plastic, square guttering on their side
of the two semi's. We have the original round guttering which feeds a
cast iron
outlet into the downpipe. The gutter leaks badly where the square and round
types meet.
It turns out that while the new guttering does actually have a square-round
adapter, this has merely been placed into the downpipe's outlet with
no sealant
or physical attachment - it just flaps around in the wind and rain.

While up t' laddter today I decided to see what remedies were possible. The
round outlet has two screw-holes in its base. The side that goes to the half-
round guttering is screwed onto the outlet, the side that goes to the adapter
isn't - it's just loose. This appears to be because of a mismatch in the
"systems": modern outlets have a rubber seal to make a watertight joint, the
original cast iron outlet expects the guttering to be screw in and doesn't
have a gasket.

Look at this from a pragmatic POV. Your neighbour relies on _your_
downpipe so he should ensure that _his_ guttering arrangement is
compatible with _yours_, especially as yours is the original.

Perhaps the NDN could contribute to the maintenance (e.g. painting;
unblocking) of the "common" parts of the arrangement.

I have a similar setup, but have (yet) had no complications.

Yes, that's always been my position - however for the 5 years or so that
this has been ongoing, no progress to my gentle hints has resulted in
action. I'm well past the point of "principles" and who's responsibility
this is - I'm in a position to fix it as I've been clearing the back gutter
and am now starting on the front one - and if that's what the neigbours
have been waiting for then fine - they win, big deal! It doesn't matter.

The problem has always been that since a previous occupier, not
the current one, was persuaded to replace their perfectly good gutters
with something that was (a) unsuitable and (b) poorly installed every
bout of heavy rain has seen rainwater pouring out of this connection.

To take your pragmatic view, for the sake of half an hour up a ladder I
should be able to seal the "joint" and make it more permanent with a
screw to keep it all in place. I'm under no illusions that a squirt of
mastic will provide a permanent solution, hence the need for mechanical
fixings.

Fortunately the existing outlet was made with a screw-hole for what looks
like a 1/4 inch (yes, it's 50 years old) CSK, which is what's keeping my
side of the gutter conencted to the outlet.

Presumably, the original installers did not have any half round plastic
to do a decent bodge.

Why not shorten your neighbours gutter back a few inches, refit the
adapter and scrounge a short length of half round plastic gutter to mate
with your running outlet?

Not the nicest job at the top of a ladder but you can drill cast iron.
If you scrounge the ribbed rubber strip from a gutter joint and use
stainless fixings you should get a long lasting seal.

On scrounging... I have all those parts to hand:-)

regards

--
Tim Lamb

root explained on 30/10/2011 :


Fortunately the existing outlet was made with a screw-hole for what looks
like a 1/4 inch (yes, it's 50 years old) CSK, which is what's keeping my
side of the gutter conencted to the outlet.

I sympathise with you, because we had a similar problem. Cast was
swapped for half round plastic on both properties, many years ago. Then
about 7 years ago next door were persuaded to get new gutters, soffits
and etc. installed, but they didn't fit new fall pipes.

Who ever they had paid to do the job, made a complete muck of it -
gutter level wondered all over the place and they just used a self
tapper and sealant to adapt their square to the existing half round. It
never worked and just flooded out - unfortunately down our walls.

Despite many complaints, they just would not pay for anyone to sort it
for them. So a couple of years ago and because I felt ours was due for
replacement anyway, I replaced all of ours to match theirs, including
the fall pipes and all nice and straight - unlike their professionally
installed work'.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Probably because if its anything like here, then you move the square round
problem onto the next house along?

In the circumstances, I'd say that a couple of screws near the top of the
gutter would work better with some kind of silicon sealant to bond the two
so expansion is less of a problem. as for elongating the screw holes. this
might be an idea on the one that is the inside gutter, not the outer one.
Use non corroding screws though, as otherwise it will be a mess in 2 years.
I only know this from what a friend mentioned who has a similar issue. the
downpipe section is the end of the run nearest his property, which is, what
I assume is the case here.
Its always going to be a compromise of course.
Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Phil L" wrote in message
...
root wrote:
Breifly, the next-door neighbour has plastic, square guttering on
their side of the two semi's. We have the original round guttering
which feeds a cast iron outlet into the downpipe. The gutter leaks
badly where the square and round types meet.
It turns out that while the new guttering does actually have a
square-round adapter, this has merely been placed into the
downpipe's outlet with no sealant or physical attachment - it just
flaps around in the wind and rain.

While up t' laddter today I decided to see what remedies were
possible. The round outlet has two screw-holes in its base. The side
that goes to the half- round guttering is screwed onto the outlet,
the side that goes to the adapter isn't - it's just loose. This
appears to be because of a mismatch in the "systems": modern outlets
have a rubber seal to make a watertight joint, the original cast iron
outlet expects the guttering to be screw in and doesn't have a gasket.
The plan is to bed the loose end of the adpater into some adhesive
goop and possibly to drill a hole up through the adapter to form a
physical attachment (as opposed to simply an emotional one). Though
I'm a little dubious whether
a hole + metal screw would stand the test of time.

So, the question is: do I need to consider thermal expansion in the
joint? Would an adhesive ultimately fail due to movement, and/or
should a screw-hole in the bottom of the adapter be elongated to
allow expansion along it's length?


I've read this about 8 or 9 times and I've still no idea what you are on
about.

Where is the outlet?

Are you referring to the square - round adapter as an outet?

Why not just spend £25 and get yourself some new square gutter and clips
and join onto next doors' new stuff?

On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 09:11:51 +0000, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , root
writes
On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 23:35:43 +0100, Frank Erskine wrote:
On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 18:00:32 +0000 (UTC), root
wrote:

Breifly, the next-door neighbour has plastic, square guttering on their side
of the two semi's. We have the original round guttering which feeds a
cast iron
outlet into the downpipe. The gutter leaks badly where the square and round
types meet.
It turns out that while the new guttering does actually have a square-round
adapter, this has merely been placed into the downpipe's outlet with
no sealant
or physical attachment - it just flaps around in the wind and rain.

While up t' laddter today I decided to see what remedies were possible. The
round outlet has two screw-holes in its base. The side that goes to the half-
round guttering is screwed onto the outlet, the side that goes to the adapter
isn't - it's just loose. This appears to be because of a mismatch in the
"systems": modern outlets have a rubber seal to make a watertight joint, the
original cast iron outlet expects the guttering to be screw in and doesn't
have a gasket.

Look at this from a pragmatic POV. Your neighbour relies on _your_
downpipe so he should ensure that _his_ guttering arrangement is
compatible with _yours_, especially as yours is the original.

Perhaps the NDN could contribute to the maintenance (e.g. painting;
unblocking) of the "common" parts of the arrangement.

I have a similar setup, but have (yet) had no complications.

Yes, that's always been my position - however for the 5 years or so that
this has been ongoing, no progress to my gentle hints has resulted in
action. I'm well past the point of "principles" and who's responsibility
this is - I'm in a position to fix it as I've been clearing the back gutter
and am now starting on the front one - and if that's what the neigbours
have been waiting for then fine - they win, big deal! It doesn't matter.

The problem has always been that since a previous occupier, not
the current one, was persuaded to replace their perfectly good gutters
with something that was (a) unsuitable and (b) poorly installed every
bout of heavy rain has seen rainwater pouring out of this connection.

To take your pragmatic view, for the sake of half an hour up a ladder I
should be able to seal the "joint" and make it more permanent with a
screw to keep it all in place. I'm under no illusions that a squirt of
mastic will provide a permanent solution, hence the need for mechanical
fixings.

Fortunately the existing outlet was made with a screw-hole for what looks
like a 1/4 inch (yes, it's 50 years old) CSK, which is what's keeping my
side of the gutter conencted to the outlet.

Presumably, the original installers did not have any half round plastic
to do a decent bodge.

Hmmm, that would be the generous and charitable explanation :0
On the evening after the first day spent fixing their new gutter + soffits, I
got a knock from their builder who said
"While I was up on the roof, I noticed some of your ridge tiles need repointing.
Since I've got the equipment, I can do it for you tomorrow for £60"
OK, says I, "Let's have a look" (pulls out Hubble-sized binoculars and trains
them on ridge. )
Needless to say, when questioned the next evening, the guy "didn't have time"
to do the repointing ...

Why not shorten your neighbours gutter back a few inches, refit the
adapter and scrounge a short length of half round plastic gutter to mate
with your running outlet?

Not the nicest job at the top of a ladder but you can drill cast iron.
If you scrounge the ribbed rubber strip from a gutter joint and use
stainless fixings you should get a long lasting seal.

On scrounging... I have all those parts to hand:-)

It sounds like your bits box is far superior to mine. I'm just considering this
as an opportunistic fix - not something I want to turn into a project. So I'll
probably use whatever I can get my hands on. If it lasts a year or two, that's
better than what's there now (and you never know, the neighbours might get round
to sorting out a permanent fix). I don't want to go cutting their gutters as
then I'll "own" the problem and it'll always be my fault ...

In message , root
writes


snip

Why not shorten your neighbours gutter back a few inches, refit the
adapter and scrounge a short length of half round plastic gutter to mate
with your running outlet?

Not the nicest job at the top of a ladder but you can drill cast iron.
If you scrounge the ribbed rubber strip from a gutter joint and use
stainless fixings you should get a long lasting seal.

On scrounging... I have all those parts to hand:-)

It sounds like your bits box is far superior to mine. I'm just considering this
as an opportunistic fix - not something I want to turn into a project. So I'll
probably use whatever I can get my hands on. If it lasts a year or two, that's
better than what's there now (and you never know, the neighbours might
get round
to sorting out a permanent fix). I don't want to go cutting their gutters as
then I'll "own" the problem and it'll always be my fault ...

Nothing with re-use possibilities ever knowingly thrown away:-)

They are your neighbours:-)

regards

--
Tim Lamb