The Natural Philosopher wrote:

wrote:
Chimney experts: advice sought please- gas flue for wood burning
stove?

Dear All,

My wife and I were wondering if it would be possible to fit a wood
burning stove into our maisonette.

The existing flue *I think* must be for gas fires as it appears to be
of a rectangular 'letterbox' cross section within concrete blocks.

Is it possible to have this lined in any way so that we can use a wood
burning stove?

Any advice gratefully received!


Yes, but expect to spend about £3000 in total for stove, flue liner and
proper installation.

Thanks.

Just to add to that, base cost for 7m of good heavy single wall stainless
flue liner including installation (and removal of old gas grade liner) was
around £700.

--
Tim Watts

Tim Watts wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

wrote:
Chimney experts: advice sought please- gas flue for wood burning
stove?

Dear All,

My wife and I were wondering if it would be possible to fit a wood
burning stove into our maisonette.

The existing flue *I think* must be for gas fires as it appears to be
of a rectangular 'letterbox' cross section within concrete blocks.

Is it possible to have this lined in any way so that we can use a wood
burning stove?

Any advice gratefully received!

Yes, but expect to spend about £3000 in total for stove, flue liner and
proper installation.

Thanks.

Just to add to that, base cost for 7m of good heavy single wall stainless
flue liner including installation (and removal of old gas grade liner) was
around £700.


Short chimney then. Mine cost 700 without installation..but the BCO
insisted on double wall. Which they probably would in this case also.

Thanks both.

My concern is that the flue is a similar perhaps slightly bigger than
a letter box in cross section and conventional stainless liner will
not be possible. So some form of coating might be required.

The other option might be the construction of a separate flue that
runs up the side of our property though the neighbours might not be
too impressed!

£3000 would make it out of the question...so we may just have to buy
another electric fire/heater!

Thanks.

wrote:

Thanks both.

My concern is that the flue is a similar perhaps slightly bigger than
a letter box in cross section and conventional stainless liner will
not be possible. So some form of coating might be required.

The other option might be the construction of a separate flue that
runs up the side of our property though the neighbours might not be
too impressed!

I see. So the flue cavity could not clear a 5" diameter pipe then? That
could be a problem.

Worth inviting a HETAS installer round - perhaps the existing flue is
sufficiently rated for solid fuel? Google for HETAS - they have a
registered-bloke-by-postcode search feature on their website. That won't
cost anything.

£3000 would make it out of the question...so we may just have to buy
another electric fire/heater!

Well, if you are lucky and the flue is good for it, it would be stove
(500-1000 depending) and installation (100-ish without liner).

If a liner is involved, as I said, it gets bloody expensive just in parts -
even worse if you needed a double-walled liner as you might to do a run that
is not contained within an existing flueway. I wasn't being "done" either -
I's already priced the parts on the internet and that's why I let that job
go out, because the labour differential cost was small.

--
Tim Watts

On 18/10/2011 16:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Just to add to that, base cost for 7m of good heavy single wall
stainless flue liner including installation (and removal of old gas
grade liner) was around £700.


Short chimney then. Mine cost 700 without installation..but the BCO
insisted on double wall. Which they probably would in this case also.



I keep seeing crazy prices for liners, there are places selling them for
a lot less, for example this one is £359 for 10 meters for 904 s/s.

http://www.stovesareus.co.uk/catalog...de-p-5911.html

Is this liner any different from one costing around £100 per meter!?

I am in no way connected with them, I am just in the market for a liner
myself for an Aga Little Wenlock SE!

--
Toby...
Remove pants to reply

Toby wrote:
On 18/10/2011 16:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Just to add to that, base cost for 7m of good heavy single wall
stainless flue liner including installation (and removal of old gas
grade liner) was around £700.


Short chimney then. Mine cost 700 without installation..but the BCO
insisted on double wall. Which they probably would in this case also.



I keep seeing crazy prices for liners, there are places selling them for
a lot less, for example this one is £359 for 10 meters for 904 s/s.

http://www.stovesareus.co.uk/catalog...de-p-5911.html


Is this liner any different from one costing around £100 per meter!?


yes.

http://www.fireplaceproducts.co.uk/C...uble-Insulated

I am in no way connected with them, I am just in the market for a liner
myself for an Aga Little Wenlock SE!


oil/coal agas don't need anything like what a wood burner needs

On 18/10/2011 21:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Toby wrote:
On 18/10/2011 16:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Just to add to that, base cost for 7m of good heavy single wall
stainless flue liner including installation (and removal of old gas
grade liner) was around £700.


Short chimney then. Mine cost 700 without installation..but the BCO
insisted on double wall. Which they probably would in this case also.



I keep seeing crazy prices for liners, there are places selling them
for a lot less, for example this one is £359 for 10 meters for 904 s/s.

http://www.stovesareus.co.uk/catalog...de-p-5911.html


Is this liner any different from one costing around £100 per meter!?


yes.

http://www.fireplaceproducts.co.uk/C...uble-Insulated

I am in no way connected with them, I am just in the market for a
liner myself for an Aga Little Wenlock SE!


oil/coal agas don't need anything like what a wood burner needs

Okay, but the site I linked to say the liner is suable...
"for use on stoves burning the following fuels:- gas, oil, coal, coke,
seasoned dry logs, cured dry peat and all smokeless fuels."

--
Toby...
Remove pants to reply

Toby wrote:
On 18/10/2011 21:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Toby wrote:
On 18/10/2011 16:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Just to add to that, base cost for 7m of good heavy single wall
stainless flue liner including installation (and removal of old gas
grade liner) was around £700.


Short chimney then. Mine cost 700 without installation..but the BCO
insisted on double wall. Which they probably would in this case also.



I keep seeing crazy prices for liners, there are places selling them
for a lot less, for example this one is £359 for 10 meters for 904 s/s.

http://www.stovesareus.co.uk/catalog...de-p-5911.html



Is this liner any different from one costing around £100 per meter!?


yes.

http://www.fireplaceproducts.co.uk/C...uble-Insulated

I am in no way connected with them, I am just in the market for a
liner myself for an Aga Little Wenlock SE!


oil/coal agas don't need anything like what a wood burner needs

Okay, but the site I linked to say the liner is suable...
"for use on stoves burning the following fuels:- gas, oil, coal, coke,
seasoned dry logs, cured dry peat and all smokeless fuels."

in an open fireplace..not a stove



Check with BCO and PETA bloke. Odd regs abound

On Oct 18, 9:20 pm, Toby wrote:
On 18/10/2011 21:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:



Toby wrote:
On 18/10/2011 16:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Just to add to that, base cost for 7m of good heavy single wall
stainless flue liner including installation (and removal of old gas
grade liner) was around £700.

Short chimney then. Mine cost 700 without installation..but the BCO
insisted on double wall. Which they probably would in this case also.

I keep seeing crazy prices for liners, there are places selling them
for a lot less, for example this one is £359 for 10 meters for 904 s/s.

http://www.stovesareus.co.uk/catalog...904904-grade-p....

Is this liner any different from one costing around £100 per meter!?

yes.

http://www.fireplaceproducts.co.uk/C...s/Double-Insul...

I am in no way connected with them, I am just in the market for a
liner myself for an Aga Little Wenlock SE!

oil/coal agas don't need anything like what a wood burner needs

Okay, but the site I linked to say the liner is suable...
"for use on stoves burning the following fuels:- gas, oil, coal, coke,
seasoned dry logs, cured dry peat and all smokeless fuels."

--
Toby...
Remove pants to reply

yup seems a perennial confusion between

lining an existing flue with "twinwall" stainless steel flexible flue
liners similar to what you are describing
e.g. http://www.hotline-chimneys.co.uk/pr...artno=SFL31606
and sister products

AND

the rigid "double skinned" stainless (with insulation between skins)
that you are obliged to use where there is not an existing flue to
line

the latter costing eyewatering prices, the former can be had for
reasonabler prices *but it's application specific* not an either/or
choice....

who's had the parapet away?
Jim K

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Toby wrote:
On 18/10/2011 16:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Just to add to that, base cost for 7m of good heavy single wall
stainless flue liner including installation (and removal of old gas
grade liner) was around £700.


Short chimney then. Mine cost 700 without installation..but the BCO
insisted on double wall. Which they probably would in this case also.



I keep seeing crazy prices for liners, there are places selling them for
a lot less, for example this one is £359 for 10 meters for 904 s/s.

http://www.stovesareus.co.uk/catalog...-904904-grade-
p-5911.html


Is this liner any different from one costing around £100 per meter!?


yes.

http://www.fireplaceproducts.co.uk/C...uble-Insulated

I am in no way connected with them, I am just in the market for a liner
myself for an Aga Little Wenlock SE!


oil/coal agas don't need anything like what a wood burner needs

Except the coal Aga can usually burn wood too - pretty sure the Little
Wenlock SE is dual mode.

--
Tim Watts

On 18/10/2011 21:24, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Toby wrote:
On 18/10/2011 21:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Toby wrote:
On 18/10/2011 16:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Just to add to that, base cost for 7m of good heavy single wall
stainless flue liner including installation (and removal of old gas
grade liner) was around £700.


Short chimney then. Mine cost 700 without installation..but the BCO
insisted on double wall. Which they probably would in this case also.



I keep seeing crazy prices for liners, there are places selling them
for a lot less, for example this one is £359 for 10 meters for 904 s/s.

http://www.stovesareus.co.uk/catalog...de-p-5911.html



Is this liner any different from one costing around £100 per meter!?


yes.

http://www.fireplaceproducts.co.uk/C...uble-Insulated


I am in no way connected with them, I am just in the market for a
liner myself for an Aga Little Wenlock SE!


oil/coal agas don't need anything like what a wood burner needs

Okay, but the site I linked to say the liner is suable...
"for use on stoves burning the following fuels:- gas, oil, coal, coke,
seasoned dry logs, cured dry peat and all smokeless fuels."

in an open fireplace..not a stove



Check with BCO and PETA bloke. Odd regs abound

It does say...
"for use on STOVES burning the following...."

--
Toby...
Remove pants to reply

On 18/10/2011 21:33, Tim Watts wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Toby wrote:
On 18/10/2011 16:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Just to add to that, base cost for 7m of good heavy single wall
stainless flue liner including installation (and removal of old gas
grade liner) was around £700.


Short chimney then. Mine cost 700 without installation..but the BCO
insisted on double wall. Which they probably would in this case also.



I keep seeing crazy prices for liners, there are places selling them for
a lot less, for example this one is £359 for 10 meters for 904 s/s.

http://www.stovesareus.co.uk/catalog...-904904-grade-
p-5911.html


Is this liner any different from one costing around £100 per meter!?


yes.

http://www.fireplaceproducts.co.uk/C...uble-Insulated

I am in no way connected with them, I am just in the market for a liner
myself for an Aga Little Wenlock SE!


oil/coal agas don't need anything like what a wood burner needs

Except the coal Aga can usually burn wood too - pretty sure the Little
Wenlock SE is dual mode.


This one is designed for wood, in a smoke control zone (where I am!)

"The stove is specifically designed to burn wood and burns it so
efficiently it meets the stringent requirements of the Clean Air Act.
Due to the low particulate emissions this product is fully approved to
burn wood in smoke control zones."

--
Toby...
Remove pants to reply

Jim K wrote:
On Oct 18, 9:20 pm, Toby wrote:
On 18/10/2011 21:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:



Toby wrote:
On 18/10/2011 16:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Just to add to that, base cost for 7m of good heavy single wall
stainless flue liner including installation (and removal of old gas
grade liner) was around £700.
Short chimney then. Mine cost 700 without installation..but the BCO
insisted on double wall. Which they probably would in this case also.
I keep seeing crazy prices for liners, there are places selling them
for a lot less, for example this one is £359 for 10 meters for 904 s/s.
http://www.stovesareus.co.uk/catalog...904904-grade-p...
Is this liner any different from one costing around £100 per meter!?
yes.
http://www.fireplaceproducts.co.uk/C...s/Double-Insul...
I am in no way connected with them, I am just in the market for a
liner myself for an Aga Little Wenlock SE!
oil/coal agas don't need anything like what a wood burner needs
Okay, but the site I linked to say the liner is suable...
"for use on stoves burning the following fuels:- gas, oil, coal, coke,
seasoned dry logs, cured dry peat and all smokeless fuels."

--
Toby...
Remove pants to reply

yup seems a perennial confusion between

lining an existing flue with "twinwall" stainless steel flexible flue
liners similar to what you are describing
e.g. http://www.hotline-chimneys.co.uk/pr...artno=SFL31606
and sister products

AND

the rigid "double skinned" stainless (with insulation between skins)
that you are obliged to use where there is not an existing flue to
line


Or in my case, even when there was.

Flexible flues are NOT reckoned to be adequate for all flues. Only for
old coal flues that are apparently almost ok by themselves . Or something.


the latter costing eyewatering prices, the former can be had for
reasonabler prices *but it's application specific* not an either/or
choice....

who's had the parapet away?
Jim K

Tim Watts wrote:

I see. So the flue cavity could not clear a 5" diameter pipe then? That
could be a problem.

It needs to be a 150mm flue for solid fuels. I didn't think part J had
requirements for insulation of the flue, just distances from combustible
materials. It's the certification that causes the problems because only
HETAS people can self certify a flue installation and they may insist on
proprietary products.

In practice the higher temperature grade ss smooth inside flexible flue with
insulation (vermiculite) in the voids outside would do the job but then
you'd need to get the flue and plate signed off.

AJH

On Oct 18, 10:36 pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Oct 18, 9:20 pm, Toby wrote:
On 18/10/2011 21:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Toby wrote:
On 18/10/2011 16:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Just to add to that, base cost for 7m of good heavy single wall
stainless flue liner including installation (and removal of old gas
grade liner) was around £700.
Short chimney then. Mine cost 700 without installation..but the BCO
insisted on double wall. Which they probably would in this case also.
I keep seeing crazy prices for liners, there are places selling them
for a lot less, for example this one is £359 for 10 meters for 904 s/s.
http://www.stovesareus.co.uk/catalog...904904-grade-p....
Is this liner any different from one costing around £100 per meter!?
yes.
http://www.fireplaceproducts.co.uk/C...s/Double-Insul....
I am in no way connected with them, I am just in the market for a
liner myself for an Aga Little Wenlock SE!
oil/coal agas don't need anything like what a wood burner needs
Okay, but the site I linked to say the liner is suable...
"for use on stoves burning the following fuels:- gas, oil, coal, coke,
seasoned dry logs, cured dry peat and all smokeless fuels."

--
Toby...
Remove pants to reply

yup seems a perennial confusion between

lining an existing flue with "twinwall" stainless steel flexible flue
liners similar to what you are describing
e.g.http://www.hotline-chimneys.co.uk/pr...artno=SFL31606
and sister products

AND

the rigid "double skinned" stainless (with insulation between skins)
that you are obliged to use where there is not an existing flue to
line

Or in my case, even when there was.

who decided?

Flexible flues are NOT reckoned to be adequate for all flues. Only for
old coal flues that are apparently almost ok by themselves . Or something..

?some refs would be of interest...

Jim K

Jim K wrote:
On Oct 18, 10:36 pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Oct 18, 9:20 pm, Toby wrote:
On 18/10/2011 21:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Toby wrote:
On 18/10/2011 16:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Just to add to that, base cost for 7m of good heavy single wall
stainless flue liner including installation (and removal of old gas
grade liner) was around £700.
Short chimney then. Mine cost 700 without installation..but the BCO
insisted on double wall. Which they probably would in this case also.
I keep seeing crazy prices for liners, there are places selling them
for a lot less, for example this one is £359 for 10 meters for 904 s/s.
http://www.stovesareus.co.uk/catalog...904904-grade-p...
Is this liner any different from one costing around £100 per meter!?
yes.
http://www.fireplaceproducts.co.uk/C...s/Double-Insul...
I am in no way connected with them, I am just in the market for a
liner myself for an Aga Little Wenlock SE!
oil/coal agas don't need anything like what a wood burner needs
Okay, but the site I linked to say the liner is suable...
"for use on stoves burning the following fuels:- gas, oil, coal, coke,
seasoned dry logs, cured dry peat and all smokeless fuels."
--
Toby...
Remove pants to reply
yup seems a perennial confusion between
lining an existing flue with "twinwall" stainless steel flexible flue
liners similar to what you are describing
e.g.http://www.hotline-chimneys.co.uk/pr...artno=SFL31606
and sister products
AND
the rigid "double skinned" stainless (with insulation between skins)
that you are obliged to use where there is not an existing flue to
line
Or in my case, even when there was.

who decided?

BCO.

Flexible flues are NOT reckoned to be adequate for all flues. Only for
old coal flues that are apparently almost ok by themselves . Or something.

?some refs would be of interest...

Check building regs.

Jim K

On Oct 19, 5:24 pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Oct 18, 10:36 pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Oct 18, 9:20 pm, Toby wrote:
On 18/10/2011 21:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Toby wrote:
On 18/10/2011 16:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Just to add to that, base cost for 7m of good heavy single wall
stainless flue liner including installation (and removal of old gas
grade liner) was around £700.
Short chimney then. Mine cost 700 without installation..but the BCO
insisted on double wall. Which they probably would in this case also.
I keep seeing crazy prices for liners, there are places selling them
for a lot less, for example this one is £359 for 10 meters for 904 s/s.
http://www.stovesareus.co.uk/catalog...904904-grade-p...
Is this liner any different from one costing around £100 per meter!?
yes.
http://www.fireplaceproducts.co.uk/C...s/Double-Insul...
I am in no way connected with them, I am just in the market for a
liner myself for an Aga Little Wenlock SE!
oil/coal agas don't need anything like what a wood burner needs
Okay, but the site I linked to say the liner is suable...
"for use on stoves burning the following fuels:- gas, oil, coal, coke,
seasoned dry logs, cured dry peat and all smokeless fuels."
--
Toby...
Remove pants to reply
yup seems a perennial confusion between
lining an existing flue with "twinwall" stainless steel flexible flue
liners similar to what you are describing
e.g.http://www.hotline-chimneys.co.uk/pr...artno=SFL31606
and sister products
AND
the rigid "double skinned" stainless (with insulation between skins)
that you are obliged to use where there is not an existing flue to
line
Or in my case, even when there was.

who decided?

BCO.

Flexible flues are NOT reckoned to be adequate for all flues. Only for
old coal flues that are apparently almost ok by themselves . Or something.

?some refs would be of interest...

Check building regs.

oh ;))

Jim K