On 14th July I reported serious BB issues ... speed had dropped form 3.8Mbps
to less than 1Mbps ... and kept dropping, often out for up to an Hr at a
time.
Spent ages on phone to India ... eventually they agreed to send out BT
OpenReach engineer.
First bod arrived ... tested and advise the uunderground cable in pavement
back to service manhole was erroring ... will request replacement.
Within 3 days service now down more than it is up, and speed down to
150kbps.
Escalated again ... all I cold get was 'you have to wanut 10 days for
stabilization' ........ I escalated to BT complaints and got same response
.... even when I explained that tuning of line will not fix the drop outs.
After 10 days they sent another BT OpenReach engineer, who swapped a few
pairs but again advise underground cable needs changing ... he could do no
more - talk to my ISP (BT)
It then went down fully .... escalted again, and told cable being changed on
the Weds ... waited ... nobody turned up, Help desk then advise that BT
OpenReach had not approved the budget spend to fix the fault. Presume they
don't want to put copper in the ground as they are now rolling out Infinity.
Another 2 engineers that week .... same issue they state cable needs
replacing ... andf they have been told this has not been approved by area
head of Planning.
After escalations myself and by some Senior BT people I work with, case was
then transferred to Priority Care team ...... who assured me it would be
fixed.
Now 31 days since reporting the fault ......... I have a service that is
more down than up, and even when up has a woefully poor thtoughhout.
The IPprofile downspeeds due to erroring, and it just keeps losing synch
..... for Hrs at a time now.
BT say escalate to BT OpenReach, as they own the copper ......... BT
OpenReach will not accept any complaints insisting I have to go through my
ISP. BT Technical Help deak say they can't do anymore as OpenReach will not
replace the cable.

They now offer as a solution ..... I'll repeat this, as it may be absurd to
read ... as a solution, that I can cancel my 18 month contract with them.
I explained I have an 18 month supply contract, I customer, I pay, they
supplier they provide ... and iff they don't, then they are in material
breach of contract ... if I cancel contracat I would lose all my legal
rights.

I still have to go through the inane script when I call into help desk ...
am assured each time that the person will take personal ownership and 'most
surely be resolving this for you sir' .......... 'Priority care Team seem to
have simply vanished .. and no way to contact them.

I pay for an up to 8Mbps services full uncapped - and what I get is
pathetic.
This is customer service of the worst kind ..............

It's getting close to an Exec Escalation into BT.

Rick Hughes wrote:
On 14th July I reported serious BB issues ... speed had dropped form
3.8Mbps to less than 1Mbps ... and kept dropping, often out for up to
an Hr at a time.
Spent ages on phone to India ... eventually they agreed to send out BT
OpenReach engineer.
First bod arrived ... tested and advise the uunderground cable in
pavement back to service manhole was erroring ... will request
replacement. Within 3 days service now down more than it is up, and speed
down to
150kbps.
Escalated again ... all I cold get was 'you have to wanut 10 days for
stabilization' ........ I escalated to BT complaints and got same
response ... even when I explained that tuning of line will not fix
the drop outs. After 10 days they sent another BT OpenReach engineer,
who swapped a few pairs but again advise underground cable needs
changing ... he could do no more - talk to my ISP (BT)
It then went down fully .... escalted again, and told cable being
changed on the Weds ... waited ... nobody turned up, Help desk then
advise that BT OpenReach had not approved the budget spend to fix the
fault. Presume they don't want to put copper in the ground as they
are now rolling out Infinity. Another 2 engineers that week .... same
issue they state cable needs replacing ... andf they have been told
this has not been approved by area head of Planning.
After escalations myself and by some Senior BT people I work with,
case was then transferred to Priority Care team ...... who assured me
it would be fixed.
Now 31 days since reporting the fault ......... I have a service that
is more down than up, and even when up has a woefully poor
thtoughhout. The IPprofile downspeeds due to erroring, and it just keeps
losing
synch .... for Hrs at a time now.
BT say escalate to BT OpenReach, as they own the copper ......... BT
OpenReach will not accept any complaints insisting I have to go
through my ISP. BT Technical Help deak say they can't do anymore as
OpenReach will not replace the cable.

They now offer as a solution ..... I'll repeat this, as it may be
absurd to read ... as a solution, that I can cancel my 18 month
contract with them. I explained I have an 18 month supply contract, I
customer, I pay, they supplier they provide ... and iff they don't,
then they are in material breach of contract ... if I cancel
contracat I would lose all my legal rights.

I still have to go through the inane script when I call into help
desk ... am assured each time that the person will take personal
ownership and 'most surely be resolving this for you sir' ..........
'Priority care Team seem to have simply vanished .. and no way to
contact them.
I pay for an up to 8Mbps services full uncapped - and what I get is
pathetic.
This is customer service of the worst kind ..............

It's getting close to an Exec Escalation into BT.


BT are well known for supplying a 4th rate service at extortionate prices,
why anyone would hand money over to this shower of **** is beyond me.
They treat their customers as a joke - make no mistake you are having the
**** ripped out of you by those who are answering your calls and you are
referred to as a 'whinging peasant' by the 'complaints team'.

Cancel contract and don't open any more letters from them, because this is
when they start demanding money with menaces, get a proper isp like virgin,
as almost all the others rely on BT lines, then you're back to square one.

On Aug 14, 3:46*pm, "Rick Hughes"
wrote:
On 14th July I reported serious BB issues ... speed had dropped form 3.8Mbps
to less than 1Mbps ... and kept dropping, often out for up to an Hr at a
time.
Spent ages on phone to India ... eventually they agreed to send out BT
OpenReach engineer.
First bod arrived ... tested and advise the uunderground cable in pavement
back to service manhole was erroring ... will request replacement.
Within 3 days service now down more than it is up, and speed down to
150kbps.
Escalated again ... all I cold get was 'you have to wanut 10 days for
stabilization' ........ I escalated to BT complaints and got same response
... even when I explained that tuning of line will not fix the drop outs.
After 10 days they sent another BT OpenReach engineer, who swapped a few
pairs but again advise underground cable needs changing ... he could do no
more - talk to my ISP (BT)
It then went down fully .... escalted again, and told cable being changed on
the Weds ... waited ... nobody turned up, Help desk then advise that BT
OpenReach had not approved the budget spend to fix the fault. Presume they
don't want to put copper in the ground as they are now rolling out Infinity.
Another 2 engineers that week .... same issue they state cable needs
replacing ... andf they have been told this has not been approved by area
head of Planning.
After escalations myself and by some Senior BT people I work with, case was
then transferred to Priority Care team ...... who assured me it would be
fixed.
Now 31 days since reporting the fault ......... I have a service that is
more down than up, and even when up has a woefully poor thtoughhout.
The IPprofile downspeeds due to erroring, and it just keeps losing synch
.... for Hrs at a time now.
BT say escalate to BT OpenReach, as they own the copper ......... BT
OpenReach will not accept any complaints insisting I have to go through my
ISP. *BT Technical Help deak say they can't do anymore as OpenReach will not
replace the cable.

They now offer as a solution ..... I'll repeat this, as it may be absurd to
read ... as a solution, * that I can cancel my 18 month contract with them.
I explained I have an 18 month supply contract, I customer, I pay, they
supplier they provide ... and iff they don't, then they are in material
breach of contract ... if I cancel contracat I would lose all my legal
rights.

I still have to go through the inane script when I call into help desk ....
am assured each time that the person will take personal ownership and 'most
surely be resolving this for you sir' .......... 'Priority care Team seem to
have simply vanished .. and no way to contact them.

I pay for an up to 8Mbps services full uncapped - and what I get is
pathetic.
This is customer service of the worst kind ..............

It's getting close to an Exec Escalation into BT.

Take it to Ofcom. A long time since I used them, but found them very
good. They can plug into the BT complaints system at a higher level
than the public can get to.

On 14/08/2011 15:59, wrote:
On Aug 14, 3:46 pm, "Rick Hughes"
wrote:
On 14th July I reported serious BB issues ... speed had dropped form 3.8Mbps
to less than 1Mbps ... and kept dropping, often out for up to an Hr at a
time.
Spent ages on phone to India ... eventually they agreed to send out BT
OpenReach engineer.
First bod arrived ... tested and advise the uunderground cable in pavement
back to service manhole was erroring ... will request replacement.
Within 3 days service now down more than it is up, and speed down to
150kbps.
Escalated again ... all I cold get was 'you have to wanut 10 days for
stabilization' ........ I escalated to BT complaints and got same response
... even when I explained that tuning of line will not fix the drop outs.
After 10 days they sent another BT OpenReach engineer, who swapped a few
pairs but again advise underground cable needs changing ... he could do no
more - talk to my ISP (BT)
It then went down fully .... escalted again, and told cable being changed on
the Weds ... waited ... nobody turned up, Help desk then advise that BT
OpenReach had not approved the budget spend to fix the fault. Presume they
don't want to put copper in the ground as they are now rolling out Infinity.
Another 2 engineers that week .... same issue they state cable needs
replacing ... andf they have been told this has not been approved by area
head of Planning.
After escalations myself and by some Senior BT people I work with, case was
then transferred to Priority Care team ...... who assured me it would be
fixed.
Now 31 days since reporting the fault ......... I have a service that is
more down than up, and even when up has a woefully poor thtoughhout.
The IPprofile downspeeds due to erroring, and it just keeps losing synch
.... for Hrs at a time now.
BT say escalate to BT OpenReach, as they own the copper ......... BT
OpenReach will not accept any complaints insisting I have to go through my
ISP. BT Technical Help deak say they can't do anymore as OpenReach will not
replace the cable.

They now offer as a solution ..... I'll repeat this, as it may be absurd to
read ... as a solution, that I can cancel my 18 month contract with them.
I explained I have an 18 month supply contract, I customer, I pay, they
supplier they provide ... and iff they don't, then they are in material
breach of contract ... if I cancel contracat I would lose all my legal
rights.

I still have to go through the inane script when I call into help desk ...
am assured each time that the person will take personal ownership and 'most
surely be resolving this for you sir' .......... 'Priority care Team seem to
have simply vanished .. and no way to contact them.

I pay for an up to 8Mbps services full uncapped - and what I get is
pathetic.
This is customer service of the worst kind ..............

It's getting close to an Exec Escalation into BT.

Take it to Ofcom. A long time since I used them, but found them very
good. They can plug into the BT complaints system at a higher level
than the public can get to.

I agree. There is no point changing ISPs as they you still need to use
the same wires (the local loop) and you would still have the same problem.

--
Howard Neil

Howard Neil wrote:
I agree. There is no point changing ISPs as they you still need to use
the same wires (the local loop) and you would still have the same
problem.

I have 4mb broadband and telephone, inc line rental for 20gbp per month, and
it's not using any BT equipment or wires

On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 16:23:46 +0100, Phil L wrote:

I agree. There is no point changing ISPs as they you still need to
use
the same wires (the local loop) and you would still have the same
problem.

I have 4mb broadband and telephone, inc line rental for 20gbp per month,
and it's not using any BT equipment or wires

Virgin is only available in restricted urban areas. Most people have
little choice but to use BT Openreach for "the last mile".

As for the OP is this a pure ADSL fault or is voice (even if you
never use the line for voice) affected as well? Presumably this is a
BT retail rented line and the service you are paying them for is
voice. You stand a far better chance of geting the voice fault fixed
and as a side effect the ADSL will most likely come good as well.

If you have a trouble with voice calls you might be due compensation
but I'd advise reading the small print on the rules for compensation.
Pretty sure if you take the free option of a call divert that stops
compensation. And it'll run from when you report the voice fault not
the initial ADSL problem and BT Openreach have a habit of closing
fault reports before the fault is cleared... You can keep an eye on
the status of fault reports on the web, ah, um, er...

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Phil L" wrote in message
...
Rick Hughes wrote:
On 14th July I reported serious BB issues ... speed had dropped form
3.8Mbps to less than 1Mbps ... and kept dropping, often out for up to
an Hr at a time.
Spent ages on phone to India ... eventually they agreed to send out BT
OpenReach engineer.
First bod arrived ... tested and advise the uunderground cable in
pavement back to service manhole was erroring ... will request
replacement. Within 3 days service now down more than it is up, and speed
down to
150kbps.
Escalated again ... all I cold get was 'you have to wanut 10 days for
stabilization' ........ I escalated to BT complaints and got same
response ... even when I explained that tuning of line will not fix
the drop outs. After 10 days they sent another BT OpenReach engineer,
who swapped a few pairs but again advise underground cable needs
changing ... he could do no more - talk to my ISP (BT)
It then went down fully .... escalted again, and told cable being
changed on the Weds ... waited ... nobody turned up, Help desk then
advise that BT OpenReach had not approved the budget spend to fix the
fault. Presume they don't want to put copper in the ground as they
are now rolling out Infinity. Another 2 engineers that week .... same
issue they state cable needs replacing ... andf they have been told
this has not been approved by area head of Planning.
After escalations myself and by some Senior BT people I work with,
case was then transferred to Priority Care team ...... who assured me
it would be fixed.
Now 31 days since reporting the fault ......... I have a service that
is more down than up, and even when up has a woefully poor
thtoughhout. The IPprofile downspeeds due to erroring, and it just keeps
losing
synch .... for Hrs at a time now.
BT say escalate to BT OpenReach, as they own the copper ......... BT
OpenReach will not accept any complaints insisting I have to go
through my ISP. BT Technical Help deak say they can't do anymore as
OpenReach will not replace the cable.

They now offer as a solution ..... I'll repeat this, as it may be
absurd to read ... as a solution, that I can cancel my 18 month
contract with them. I explained I have an 18 month supply contract, I
customer, I pay, they supplier they provide ... and iff they don't,
then they are in material breach of contract ... if I cancel
contracat I would lose all my legal rights.

I still have to go through the inane script when I call into help
desk ... am assured each time that the person will take personal
ownership and 'most surely be resolving this for you sir' ..........
'Priority care Team seem to have simply vanished .. and no way to
contact them.
I pay for an up to 8Mbps services full uncapped - and what I get is
pathetic.
This is customer service of the worst kind ..............

It's getting close to an Exec Escalation into BT.


BT are well known for supplying a 4th rate service at extortionate prices,
why anyone would hand money over to this shower of **** is beyond me.
They treat their customers as a joke - make no mistake you are having the
**** ripped out of you by those who are answering your calls and you are
referred to as a 'whinging peasant' by the 'complaints team'.

Cancel contract and don't open any more letters from them, because this is
when they start demanding money with menaces, get a proper isp like
virgin, as almost all the others rely on BT lines, then you're back to
square one.

Yes, I pay for and get the best part of 10MB with VM.

BT are well known for supplying a 4th rate service at extortionate prices,
why anyone would hand money over to this shower of **** is beyond me.
They treat their customers as a joke - make no mistake you are having the
**** ripped out of you by those who are answering your calls and you are
referred to as a 'whinging peasant' by the 'complaints team'.

Cancel contract and don't open any more letters from them, because this is
when they start demanding money with menaces, get a proper isp like
virgin, as almost all the others rely on BT lines, then you're back to
square one.


Virgin can only offer Broadband over copper - not fibre ... i.e using BT
lines ... so would not be an improvement

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
As for the OP is this a pure ADSL fault or is voice (even if you
never use the line for voice) affected as well? Presumably this is a
BT retail rented line and the service you are paying them for is
voice. You stand a far better chance of geting the voice fault fixed
and as a side effect the ADSL will most likely come good as well.



It's ADSL issues only .. voice is OK.

I'm assuming they won't authorize spend to replace the 80m of cable as they
no longer want to roll out any copper.

In message , Rick Hughes
writes




Virgin can only offer Broadband over copper - not fibre ... i.e using
BT lines ... so would not be an improvement

It depends whether you're in a Virgin 'cabled' area.
http://shop.virginmedia.com/home.html?buspart=Portal_HP_nc_topnav_1_1

--
Ian

Rick Hughes wrote:
BT are well known for supplying a 4th rate service at extortionate
prices, why anyone would hand money over to this shower of **** is
beyond me. They treat their customers as a joke - make no mistake
you are having the **** ripped out of you by those who are answering
your calls and you are referred to as a 'whinging peasant' by the
'complaints team'. Cancel contract and don't open any more letters from
them, because
this is when they start demanding money with menaces, get a proper
isp like virgin, as almost all the others rely on BT lines, then
you're back to square one.


Virgin can only offer Broadband over copper - not fibre ... i.e using
BT lines ... so would not be an improvement

They use copper lines from the telewest point outside the house, down the
garden and up to the PC, prior to that it is glass fibre, and none of it has
anything to do with BT, it's all underground

On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 21:39:27 +0100, Rick Hughes wrote:

Virgin can only offer Broadband over copper - not fibre ... i.e using BT
lines ... so would not be an improvement

So Virgin cannot provide the "the last mile" for broadband even when
they have cable telly running right into your living room?

--
Cheers
Dave.

So you know...

- When you leave BT they charge a £30 exit fee (incredible).

- If you move to certain broadband providers with a faulty local loop,
they can force BT to improve the situation via their "trade route" as
part of the arrangement set up for competition. This has teeth in that
whilst you may "go around the houses with BT", the new supplier can
sit on their desk until the matter is cleared. There are limitations
but for fixable problems they are indeed fixed.

So whilst there is a cost to leaving BT, the new supplier can actually
force improvements.

I use Wireless 3G which whilst not ideal (email address needs a bit of
handling re migration) does provide a useful alternative such that I
will be dropping BT in the next few weeks. If you do decide to stay
with BT, do check with them to drop the service because they can offer
discounts to stop you leaving. The decent modems are quite expensive,
£55-65-75.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 21:42:38 +0100, Rick Hughes wrote:

As for the OP is this a pure ADSL fault or is voice (even if you
never use the line for voice) affected as well?

It's ADSL issues only .. voice is OK.

That is unusual, voice normally dies before the ADSL or is affected
as well. I have had no voice service at all, not even dialtone but
the ADSL has managed to stay up, albeit at 1Mbps... No noise,
crackles, buzz, good level (ie easy to hear a caller) on the voice
side?

I'm assuming they won't authorize spend to replace the 80m of cable as
they no longer want to roll out any copper.

As far as I'm aware BT are only doing FTTC not FTTP. If that 80m of
cable is between you and the cabinet then even if you get Infinity
you will still be on that bit of cable. If it's between cabinets or
cabinet and exchange then it may well be a 200 pair cable which don't
come cheap...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Aug 14, 2:36*pm, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
200 pair cable which don't come cheap...

Retail is £14/m, trade will be £7/m and BT will pay probably £3/m re
long term supply contract purchasing power (bit like Tesco, only
perhaps even worse).

BT drivelled for years about 1-stop-customer service, the staff even
went on strike in protest. What they meant was 1-stop - that is how
far you get. There should be only 2 customer service levels, one for
very minor domestic problems such as "where is my cat?" and one for
any technical problem. No million dial menus and handoffs, lost
ticketing. There are NNN thousand unemployed technical graduates who
could do the job from home logging in, guided by an expert technical
support system with problems escalated in "internet time" and BT
supply the PC etc...

.... the problem is of course... their local loop would have to work
properly too :-)

js.b1 wrote:

When you leave BT they charge a £30 exit fee (incredible).

If you CANCEL broadband that's true, if you MIGRATE to a different
provider (or address?) there's no cancelation fee.

On 14/08/2011 22:29, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 21:39:27 +0100, Rick Hughes wrote:

Virgin can only offer Broadband over copper - not fibre ... i.e using BT
lines ... so would not be an improvement

So Virgin cannot provide the "the last mile" for broadband even when
they have cable telly running right into your living room?

I switched to Virgin last year and when the installation was under way I
was asking the man on how it worked. Apparently, Virgin have fibre
optics to the street boxes and use coax cable from that to your house.

Our street box is about 100 yards from my house.

Dave

On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 14:56:59 -0700, js.b1 wrote:

On Aug 14, 2:36Â*pm, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
200 pair cable which don't come cheap...

Retail is £14/m, trade will be £7/m and BT will pay probably £3/m re
long term supply contract purchasing power (bit like Tesco, only perhaps
even worse).

Ignoring the non-trivial cost of pulling and connecting 200 pairs...



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes

That is unusual, voice normally dies before the ADSL or is affected as
well. I have had no voice service at all, not even dialtone but the
ADSL has managed to stay up, albeit at 1Mbps... No noise, crackles,
buzz, good level (ie easy to hear a caller) on the voice side?

This actually sounds a bit like the experience I was involved in
recently.

A friend called me in to look at the way the BT broadband went down
completely every afternoon, but at random times. It was always slow.
They were up to the stage where BT were quoting a huge price to fix the
house wiring. But the neighbours on the same telegraph pole all had the
same poor service.

I tested from the incoming line box and the results at the time we
tested were better, but not right.

I told them to call BT out and call their bluff over costs.

I then heard no more until much later. They had had multiple visits, and
been told various stories by different BT people, including a statement
about cables having to be replaced. Eventually, they said, one BT
engineer called from the local exchange, said something like "Ah ha",
drove back to the exchange, did we know not what, and it all came good.

This makes me wonder whether the problem described here is actually a
cable fault. As you can tell I know nothing about the technical side of
all these dslams or whatever.
--
Bill

Bill wrote:
In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes

That is unusual, voice normally dies before the ADSL or is affected as
well. I have had no voice service at all, not even dialtone but the
ADSL has managed to stay up, albeit at 1Mbps... No noise, crackles,
buzz, good level (ie easy to hear a caller) on the voice side?

This actually sounds a bit like the experience I was involved in recently.

A friend called me in to look at the way the BT broadband went down
completely every afternoon, but at random times. It was always slow.
They were up to the stage where BT were quoting a huge price to fix the
house wiring. But the neighbours on the same telegraph pole all had the
same poor service.

I tested from the incoming line box and the results at the time we
tested were better, but not right.

I told them to call BT out and call their bluff over costs.

I then heard no more until much later. They had had multiple visits, and
been told various stories by different BT people, including a statement
about cables having to be replaced. Eventually, they said, one BT
engineer called from the local exchange, said something like "Ah ha",
drove back to the exchange, did we know not what, and it all came good.

This makes me wonder whether the problem described here is actually a
cable fault. As you can tell I know nothing about the technical side of
all these dslams or whatever.

On tow occasions I have had 'issues' that were not resolved by calling
engineers to test the line (and upgraded it), but were magically
resolved after BT 'did something else' .

my gut feeling is that BT Openreach first of all threaten dire charges
to get the customer to sort out the 90% plus of cases that are sheer
stupidity on the part of the customers internal kit or wiring.

They then assume that 90 of the 10% left is some sort of wiring fault.

The last 1% they reluctantly concede its 'something at the exchange' and
escalate it up to there.

But they have a policy of not telling anyone what it is.

I reckon the DSLAMS and the cards fail in all sorts of ****ty ways.

On 14/08/2011 22:18, Phil L wrote:
Rick Hughes wrote:
BT are well known for supplying a 4th rate service at extortionate
prices, why anyone would hand money over to this shower of **** is
beyond me. They treat their customers as a joke - make no mistake
you are having the **** ripped out of you by those who are answering
your calls and you are referred to as a 'whinging peasant' by the
'complaints team'. Cancel contract and don't open any more letters from
them, because
this is when they start demanding money with menaces, get a proper
isp like virgin, as almost all the others rely on BT lines, then
you're back to square one.


Virgin can only offer Broadband over copper - not fibre ... i.e using
BT lines ... so would not be an improvement

They use copper lines from the telewest point outside the house, down the
garden and up to the PC, prior to that it is glass fibre, and none of it has
anything to do with BT, it's all underground

Most Virgin broadband is ADSL via BTs local loop. Some Virgin broadband
is via their cable network. There may also be some "unbundled" broadband
using BTs local loop, but connected to virgin DSLAMs in the BT exchanges.

The cable option if you have it is indeed a very different proposition
to the other alternatives. Alas most areas don't have the option.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 14/08/2011 21:42, Rick Hughes wrote:

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
As for the OP is this a pure ADSL fault or is voice (even if you
never use the line for voice) affected as well? Presumably this is a
BT retail rented line and the service you are paying them for is
voice. You stand a far better chance of geting the voice fault fixed
and as a side effect the ADSL will most likely come good as well.



It's ADSL issues only .. voice is OK.

I'm assuming they won't authorize spend to replace the 80m of cable as
they no longer want to roll out any copper.

Try a little experiment. Take one of your phones off the hook and see if
ADSL improves. This does not always work but if there is a joint problem
the voice line being off hook can, under some circumstances, help the
ADSL signal across the problem. Mind you, if it had been a joint problem
I would have expected the BT engineer to have sorted it out so I am not
too hopeful this will work in your case.

--
Howard Neil

On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 06:20:51 +0100, Howard Neil wrote:

Mind you, if it had been a joint problem I would have expected the BT
engineer to have sorted it out so I am not too hopeful this will work in
your case.

That seesm to be a little variable BT appear to have "inside" and
"outside" engineers. An "inside" one will check the NTE and plug his
TDR in and pronouce an outside fault 2.21 km away he'll them get an
"outside" engineer to come along a fix that. All very vauge the
inside/outside demarkation seems to be the tarnsistion from the
street cable to the dropwire to you.


--
Cheers
Dave.

I pay for an up to 8Mbps services full uncapped - and what I get is
pathetic.
This is customer service of the worst kind ..............

It's getting close to an Exec Escalation into BT.

Take it to Ofcom. A long time since I used them, but found them very
good. They can plug into the BT complaints system at a higher level
than the public can get to.

I agree. There is no point changing ISPs as they you still need to use
the same wires (the local loop) and you would still have the same problem.


Except that some ISP's such as Zen are much better than others at
getting Openreach to sort things..
--
Tony Sayer

In article o.uk, Dave
Liquorice scribeth thus
On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 06:20:51 +0100, Howard Neil wrote:

Mind you, if it had been a joint problem I would have expected the BT
engineer to have sorted it out so I am not too hopeful this will work in
your case.

That seesm to be a little variable BT appear to have "inside" and
"outside" engineers. An "inside" one will check the NTE and plug his
TDR in and pronouce an outside fault 2.21 km away he'll them get an
"outside" engineer to come along a fix that. All very vauge the
inside/outside demarkation seems to be the tarnsistion from the
street cable to the dropwire to you.



Not really most of that sort of stuff is poles 'n holes which the
average Openreach bod isn't equipped for ..


Like an electrician that changes your meter or company supply fuse won't
have all the gear on board for overhead line work or underground
cabling...
--
Tony Sayer

On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 09:14:28 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 06:20:51 +0100, Howard Neil wrote:

Mind you, if it had been a joint problem I would have expected the BT
engineer to have sorted it out so I am not too hopeful this will work in
your case.

That seesm to be a little variable BT appear to have "inside" and
"outside" engineers. An "inside" one will check the NTE and plug his
TDR in and pronouce an outside fault 2.21 km away he'll them get an
"outside" engineer to come along a fix that. All very vauge the
inside/outside demarkation seems to be the tarnsistion from the
street cable to the dropwire to you.

All of the OR engineers sent to fix my phone line have been capable of
looking at "inside" and "outside" faults. The beef I have is that,
once they have used up 2 hours, they're gone even if they haven't
fixed the problem.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

On 15/08/2011 09:37, tony sayer wrote:
I pay for an up to 8Mbps services full uncapped - and what I get is
pathetic.
This is customer service of the worst kind ..............

It's getting close to an Exec Escalation into BT.

Take it to Ofcom. A long time since I used them, but found them very
good. They can plug into the BT complaints system at a higher level
than the public can get to.

I agree. There is no point changing ISPs as they you still need to use
the same wires (the local loop) and you would still have the same problem.


Except that some ISP's such as Zen are much better than others at
getting Openreach to sort things..

Very true. Some are in fact nearly impossible to get to instruct BT to
do *anything*. Of those who will talk to BT, the better ones will at
least direct your call to someone who speaks english, and is not tied to
a fault finding menu that they absolutely must follow never mind how
absurd it is in the circumstance.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 15/08/11 06:05, John Rumm wrote:

Virgin can only offer Broadband over copper - not fibre ... i.e using
BT lines ... so would not be an improvement

They use copper lines from the telewest point outside the house, down the
garden and up to the PC, prior to that it is glass fibre, and none of
it has
anything to do with BT, it's all underground

Most Virgin broadband is ADSL via BTs local loop.

good god no, cable broadband customers outnumber ADSL one’e by about 18
to one.
Virgin adsl via BTW is about as bad as it can get
Virgin adsl Via C&W LLU is almost acceptable, but still over priced.

-

In message o.uk on Sun, 14
Aug 2011 22:29:13 +0100 (BST)
Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 21:39:27 +0100, Rick Hughes wrote:

Virgin can only offer Broadband over copper - not fibre ... i.e using BT
lines ... so would not be an improvement

So Virgin cannot provide the "the last mile" for broadband even when
they have cable telly running right into your living room?

If you have Virgin TV, then you also have broadband, even if you don't use it!

The broadband downstream uses TV channels - in fact, on a spectrum analyser you
won't see any difference between the broadband internet downstream channels and
the DTV multiplexes.

Unlike BT, the incoming feed covers from 5MHz to 750MHz (higher, in some cases)
rather than the piddly little bit of additional bandwidth that BT can squeeze
out of a copper pair in addition to voice signals.

The CATV feed is spit: 5 - 65MHz for upstream data, 85 - 750MHz for downstream
data, both DTV and BIA (and, in areas where they haven't turned it off yet - if
any are left - analogue TV).

The point is that, if the CATV feed is good enough quality for God-knows how
many hundred DTV channels, it MUST be good enough for all your broadband
demands!

--

Terry

In message ,
Terry Casey writes
In message o.uk on Sun, 14
Aug 2011 22:29:13 +0100 (BST)
Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 21:39:27 +0100, Rick Hughes wrote:

Virgin can only offer Broadband over copper - not fibre ... i.e using BT
lines ... so would not be an improvement

So Virgin cannot provide the "the last mile" for broadband even when
they have cable telly running right into your living room?

If you have Virgin TV, then you also have broadband, even if you don't use it!

The broadband downstream uses TV channels - in fact, on a spectrum
analyser you
won't see any difference between the broadband internet downstream
channels and
the DTV multiplexes.

Unlike BT, the incoming feed covers from 5MHz to 750MHz (higher, in
some cases)
rather than the piddly little bit of additional bandwidth that BT can squeeze
out of a copper pair in addition to voice signals.

The CATV feed is spit: 5 - 65MHz for upstream data, 85 - 750MHz for downstream
data, both DTV and BIA (and, in areas where they haven't turned it off
yet - if
any are left - analogue TV).

The point is that, if the CATV feed is good enough quality for God-knows how
many hundred DTV channels, it MUST be good enough for all your broadband
demands!

I believe they are now supplying up to three linked downstream DOCSIS
muxes (a total of 18MHz RF bandwidth), and are offering 100Mb/s.
http://shop.virginmedia.com/broadband/up-to-100mb.html
But, of course, you have to be in a Virgin cabled area.
--
Ian

"Rick Hughes" wrote in message
...
On 14th July I reported serious BB issues ... speed had dropped form
3.8Mbps to less than 1Mbps ... and kept dropping, often out for up to an
Hr at a time.
Spent ages on phone to India ... eventually they agreed to send out BT
OpenReach engineer.
First bod arrived ... tested and advise the uunderground cable in pavement
back to service manhole was erroring ... will request replacement.
Within 3 days service now down more than it is up, and speed down to
150kbps.
Escalated again ... all I cold get was 'you have to wanut 10 days for
stabilization' ........ I escalated to BT complaints and got same response
... even when I explained that tuning of line will not fix the drop outs.
After 10 days they sent another BT OpenReach engineer, who swapped a few
pairs but again advise underground cable needs changing ... he could do no
more - talk to my ISP (BT)
It then went down fully .... escalted again, and told cable being changed
on the Weds ... waited ... nobody turned up, Help desk then advise that BT
OpenReach had not approved the budget spend to fix the fault. Presume they
don't want to put copper in the ground as they are now rolling out
Infinity.
Another 2 engineers that week .... same issue they state cable needs
replacing ... andf they have been told this has not been approved by area
head of Planning.
After escalations myself and by some Senior BT people I work with, case
was then transferred to Priority Care team ...... who assured me it would
be fixed.
Now 31 days since reporting the fault ......... I have a service that is
more down than up, and even when up has a woefully poor thtoughhout.
The IPprofile downspeeds due to erroring, and it just keeps losing synch
.... for Hrs at a time now.
BT say escalate to BT OpenReach, as they own the copper ......... BT
OpenReach will not accept any complaints insisting I have to go through my
ISP. BT Technical Help deak say they can't do anymore as OpenReach will
not replace the cable.

They now offer as a solution ..... I'll repeat this, as it may be absurd
to read ... as a solution, that I can cancel my 18 month contract with
them. I explained I have an 18 month supply contract, I customer, I pay,
they supplier they provide ... and iff they don't, then they are in
material breach of contract ... if I cancel contracat I would lose all my
legal rights.

I still have to go through the inane script when I call into help desk ...
am assured each time that the person will take personal ownership and
'most surely be resolving this for you sir' .......... 'Priority care Team
seem to have simply vanished .. and no way to contact them.

I pay for an up to 8Mbps services full uncapped - and what I get is
pathetic.
This is customer service of the worst kind ..............

It's getting close to an Exec Escalation into BT.


http://www.ispa.org.uk/complaints/page_40.html
Sounds like you have reached a deadlock situation.
--
Tinkerer

"Terry Casey" wrote in message
...
In message o.uk on Sun,
14
Aug 2011 22:29:13 +0100 (BST)
Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 21:39:27 +0100, Rick Hughes wrote:

Virgin can only offer Broadband over copper - not fibre ... i.e using
BT
lines ... so would not be an improvement

So Virgin cannot provide the "the last mile" for broadband even when
they have cable telly running right into your living room?

If you have Virgin TV, then you also have broadband, even if you don't use
it!

The broadband downstream uses TV channels - in fact, on a spectrum
analyser you
won't see any difference between the broadband internet downstream
channels and
the DTV multiplexes.

Unlike BT, the incoming feed covers from 5MHz to 750MHz (higher, in some
cases)
rather than the piddly little bit of additional bandwidth that BT can
squeeze
out of a copper pair in addition to voice signals.

The CATV feed is spit: 5 - 65MHz for upstream data, 85 - 750MHz for
downstream
data, both DTV and BIA (and, in areas where they haven't turned it off
yet - if
any are left - analogue TV).

The point is that, if the CATV feed is good enough quality for God-knows
how
many hundred DTV channels, it MUST be good enough for all your broadband
demands!

It depends on how much you want to spend.
Cable is a shared access media (ADSL is not a shared access media)

There is a head end that serves a number of customers, this will put a fixed
amount of bandwidth down the cable and they will connect X customers to that
bandwidth.

When I was on cable they were ~30Mbit/s and you had 2,4 and 10 Mbits/s
customers sharing.
Somewhere in the headend they manage the user bandwidth so you can't exceed
the maximum you pay for.
If you wanted the whole headend bandwidth to yourself then you are talking
thousands of pounds in equipment so you will never get it.

Even if you sign up for one of their 50 Mbits/sec connections you don't get
a 50 Mbit/sec channel to yourself, you will share a channel with lots of
other (including lower bandwidth) customers.
They do this because statistically a lot of customers will not be using any
bandwidth and very few use use all the bandwidth for long periods.

In fact they ensure that if you do try to use all your bandwidth all the
time that you are throttled as cable can't manage such use at a sensible
price. The same is true of ADSL unless the ISP has its own network. This is
why Sky can offer unlimited, do what you like ADSL, it doesn't cost them in
bandwidth charges unlike all the BT wholesale ones.

The up channel is worse because they have less bandwidth available.


What I can say is..

if you are lucky and get a reasonably clear pair of channels you will get
good throughput and low latency.
If they start adding customers to your cable segment performance will drop
until they decide to split the segment and add another headend. This cost
cash so they tend to be very slow at doing it.

At one time you could hack the cable modem and get it to connect to
different channels so you could find the best one. I doubt if you can still
do this.

On 15/08/2011 17:57, Mark wrote:
On 15/08/11 06:05, John Rumm wrote:

Virgin can only offer Broadband over copper - not fibre ... i.e using
BT lines ... so would not be an improvement

They use copper lines from the telewest point outside the house, down
the
garden and up to the PC, prior to that it is glass fibre, and none of
it has
anything to do with BT, it's all underground

Most Virgin broadband is ADSL via BTs local loop.

good god no, cable broadband customers outnumber ADSL one’e by about 18
to one.

I suppose if you include all the blueyonder customers they acquired.
Obviously depends on region as to what choice you get.

Virgin adsl via BTW is about as bad as it can get

Its better than talk talk, and bt IME... (not saying much!)

Virgin adsl Via C&W LLU is almost acceptable, but still over priced.




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message on Tue, 16 Aug
2011 01:51:38 +0100
John Rumm wrote:

On 15/08/2011 17:57, Mark wrote:
On 15/08/11 06:05, John Rumm wrote:


Most Virgin broadband is ADSL via BTs local loop.

good god no, cable broadband customers outnumber ADSL onee by about 18
to one.

I suppose if you include all the blueyonder customers they acquired.


Who acquired?

Virgin Media was created by a merger of ntl and Telewest (who marketed their
broadband as Blueyonder)

Actually, I'm not sure if merger is the right word. The intention was for ntl
to take over Telewest but there was a legal complication - which may have been
tied up with UKTV, I can't remember for certain - which mean't it was easier
if, on paper, Telewest took over ntl.

--

Terry

On 14/08/11 15:46, Rick Hughes wrote:
On 14th July I reported serious BB issues ... speed had dropped form 3.8Mbps
to less than 1Mbps ... and kept dropping, often out for up to an Hr at a time.
Spent ages on phone to India ... eventually they agreed to send out BT
OpenReach engineer.

snip tale of woe


It's getting close to an Exec Escalation into BT.

Change ISP to one that will actually kick arse.

A&A promise to fix your broadband issue within a month or your money back.

Details at

http://aa.net.uk/broadband-trial.html

They also let you know exactly what's going on as they give you visibility of
the dialogue with BT.

On 14/08/11 22:18, Phil L wrote:
Rick Hughes wrote:
BT are well known for supplying a 4th rate service at extortionate
prices, why anyone would hand money over to this shower of **** is
beyond me. They treat their customers as a joke - make no mistake
you are having the **** ripped out of you by those who are answering
your calls and you are referred to as a 'whinging peasant' by the
'complaints team'. Cancel contract and don't open any more letters from
them, because
this is when they start demanding money with menaces, get a proper
isp like virgin, as almost all the others rely on BT lines, then
you're back to square one.


Virgin can only offer Broadband over copper - not fibre ... i.e using
BT lines ... so would not be an improvement

They use copper lines from the telewest point outside the house, down the
garden and up to the PC, prior to that it is glass fibre, and none of it has
anything to do with BT, it's all underground

Not if there is no "telewest" point anywhere nearby. For areas that aren't
cabled they provide their service over ADSL, just like everyone else.

On 14/08/11 22:36, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 21:42:38 +0100, Rick Hughes wrote:

As for the OP is this a pure ADSL fault or is voice (even if you
never use the line for voice) affected as well?

It's ADSL issues only .. voice is OK.

That is unusual, voice normally dies before the ADSL or is affected
as well. I have had no voice service at all, not even dialtone but
the ADSL has managed to stay up, albeit at1Mbps... No noise,
crackles, buzz, good level (ie easy to hear a caller) on the voice
side?

I'm assuming they won't authorize spend to replace the 80m of cable as
they no longer want to roll out any copper.

As far as I'm aware BT are only doing FTTC not FTTP.

BT are doing FTTP in Milton Keynes. Seems to be FTTC everywhere else.

If that 80m of
cable is between you and the cabinet then even if you get Infinity
you will still be on that bit of cable. If it's between cabinets or
cabinet and exchange then it may well be a 200 pair cable which don't
come cheap...

In article o.uk,
says...

On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 06:20:51 +0100, Howard Neil wrote:

Mind you, if it had been a joint problem I would have expected the BT
engineer to have sorted it out so I am not too hopeful this will work in
your case.

That seesm to be a little variable BT appear to have "inside" and
"outside" engineers. An "inside" one will check the NTE and plug his
TDR in and pronouce an outside fault 2.21 km away he'll them get an
"outside" engineer to come along a fix that. All very vauge the
inside/outside demarkation seems to be the tarnsistion from the
street cable to the dropwire to you.

When I was a cable jointer on BT, my job was from the MDF in the
exchange to the top of the pole. A "Subs app and line" guy then takes
over to do the dropwire and internal stuff. Mind you, it's a long time
since I was there and I don't know if they still work that way or if
everyone does everything these days.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 16:23:46 +0100, Phil L wrote:

I agree. There is no point changing ISPs as they you still need to
use
the same wires (the local loop) and you would still have the same
problem.

I have 4mb broadband and telephone, inc line rental for 20gbp per month,
and it's not using any BT equipment or wires

Virgin is only available in restricted urban areas. Most people have
little choice but to use BT Openreach for "the last mile".



No Virgin Medi fibre in my area.



ADSL data been done now for 34 days.
BT Broadband suggested I contact BTOpenReach ... they are not allowed to
(insane)

Today had a response from formal complaint to BTOpenReach .. i..e. guys who
run the network .... I quote

"...I am advised that by the senior planning manager that there is no budget
for a broadband boost on this cable. Any faults would need to be raised with
your communications provider "


So let me think ....I buy a service not a cable, the service has been down
for 34 days, BTOpenReach engineers (5 visits) advise there is a network
fault, and BT Open Reach Complaints say they don't have budget to fix it,
and push me back to BT Broadband ,... who say not their problem as it's a
network fault.

This is TERRIBLE service.

Rick Hughes wrote:

ADSL data been done now for 34 days.
BT Broadband suggested I contact BTOpenReach ... they are not allowed to
(insane)

They're telling you the opposite of the truth, your ISP (BT Broadband)
are the customer of BT Openreach, not you, you *CAN'T* contact Openreach!

This is TERRIBLE service.

Agreed, write to BT Broadband giving (say) 14 days notice that if the
fault isn't fixed, you'll take that as breach of contract and take your
business to an ISP who does care (e.g. A&A).