I got a kitchen devil sabatier style knife for someone as I was
frustrated at having to use their crap knives when I when to visit and
cook.

It's been a total pita to sharpen since day 1 and I got the impression
that the material was either too hard or that the blade thickness
directly behind the sharp edge was too thick for it to sharpen to a good
edge.

Looking at it the other day it seems that the sharp edge has started to
break up:

http://i55.tinypic.com/fmbzc.jpg

I'm going to try to regrind and resharpen it properly but I wonder if
the material is too hard and should I try to do anything with it
annealing ? wise before I start.

Knife is 8" cooks apparently with a one piece forged bolster and I use a
cheap (but otherwise effective) kitchen devil sharpener, the one that
looks like 2 mini chefs' steels crossed and moulded into a black plastic
handle.

Any advice?
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

Kitchen Devils are not very good knives, and neither are those
sharpeners.

For Kitchen knives, personally I prefer Carbon Steel Sabatier-style
knives. Note that
Sabatier is just a 'label' nowadays, and doesn't necessarily denote
quality. Carbon Steel
knives are difficult to find but take an edge much better than
Stainless.

For proper sharpening, I use a waterstone, but I realise this is a bit
poncy,
and more expense than most would want to pay. For instance, a Spyderco
Sharpmaker is pretty good for sharpening, but not much shy of £50. As
an alternative,
learn to use a cheap oilstone and get them properly sharp to begin
with.

Once a good knife has been properly sharpened once, in ordinary
kitchen usage
I find it's only necessary to keep the blade 'topped up' by using a
kitchen steel. I recommend you find one of those and learn how to use
it (easy).
I haven't needed to re-sharpen my knives in over a year of daily
usage. I steel them probably every
second or third time I use them.

(I have a 'well-regarded' Global Stainless Steel knife as well as the
Carbon Steel ones. The Global
doesn't take a good edge and needs sharpening, as opposed to steeling,
more often. I think they are vastly overrated)

It is of course possible that the knives are being abused whilst your
back is turned... that wouldn't help.

here's a long article for your enjoyment:
http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?...nd-sharpening/

HTH
J^n

(I have a 'well-regarded' Global Stainless Steel knife as well as the
Carbon Steel ones. The Global
doesn't take a good edge and needs sharpening, as opposed to steeling,
more often. I think they are vastly overrated)

It is of course possible that the knives are being abused whilst your
back is turned... that wouldn't help.

I use a fine grade flat diamond lap to sharpen my Global knives. The
sort they sell in packs of three different grades at Lidl from time to
time, and other places. Two strokes on one side with one in between on
the other is enough to make them keen. I've glued the lap into a wood
block intended for a whet stone. My chef son uses a steel or ceramic
sharpener. I have used a Global blue stone. Wonderful edge but the stone
was short-lived and horribly expensive. I went to a Chinese cookery
masterclass once and the chef from Shanghai honed his cleaver only once
a day on a stone. He used soft wood chopping boards though. His cutting
was magical.

Knives are a matter of individual preference. I love Globals. I only
need two. The tiny paring knife and a standard chef's knife.

In the end you will wear the edge back into the thicker part of the
blade and then will either have to get it thinned by regrinding or buy a
new knife.

My mother-in-law used to sharpen knives on the door step. The resulting
spatula was so useless I had to take my own knives when I wanted to
cook. She used scissors quite a lot to cut up ingredients.

jkn pretended :
Kitchen Devils are not very good knives, and neither are those
sharpeners.

We have a couple of the sharpeners and I can get a razor edge on most
knife blades, but I agree on the quality of their knives.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

In article , Harry
Bloomfield writes
jkn pretended :
Kitchen Devils are not very good knives, and neither are those
sharpeners.

We have a couple of the sharpeners and I can get a razor edge on most
knife blades, but I agree on the quality of their knives.

Agreed the KD sharpener isn't great but it is fairly idiot proof so
there's a chance it might get used a little when I'm not there. I also
have one at home which I use through sheer laziness as it does an ok job
on my own old but good quality knives.

I may have been spoiled with my own knives, I bought good ones 10-15yrs
ago and they haven't chipped or needed a full re-grind in all that time.

Again agreed that the KD knife isn't the best but I am hoping to rescue
it. I haven't ever had a knife edge chip like that just through
sharpening (perhaps over 2 years) so it was that that made be wonder if
it was a blade steel issue. I could go for a full sharpen per jkn's
suggested article (excellent resource btw, thank you) but I'm wondering
whether it is worth experimenting with trying to take the hardness out
of it first.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

On Apr 21, 9:53*pm, fred wrote:

Knife is 8" cooks apparently with a one piece forged bolster and I use a
cheap (but otherwise effective) kitchen devil sharpener, the one that
looks like 2 mini chefs' steels crossed and moulded into a black plastic
handle.

It's not the knife that's the problem, it's the sharpener. Steels are
a _really_ bad way to sharpen. For one thing, they're too difficult
to use - more so than a stone. A steel only works on a relatively soft
edge and (especially if it's too hard) they will indeed do a lot of
damage to an edge.

The easiest kitchen knife sharpener is the sort with two ceramic
wheels that roll, all inside a plastic benchtop case. They're all made
by Kyocera, but they're sold under several kitchen brands.

The best sharpener is a waterstone. Cheap man-made waterstones are
fairly cheap. Not easy to learn though.

The cheapest reasonable sharpener is probably a triple diamond set
from Aldi / Lidl. Don't try to sharpen a big knife on a small stone,
it's much too difficult.


I'd second the recommendation for Globals. They're the least-trouble
halfway decent kitchen knife around. Kitchen Devil are cheap & nasty.
Sabatier are quite good, so long as they're Thiers-Issard made and
have an elephant logo. Carbon or stainless, take your pick (but if
you want stainless, go with the Globals)

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
. uk...
jkn pretended :
Kitchen Devils are not very good knives, and neither are those
sharpeners.

We have a couple of the sharpeners and I can get a razor edge on most
knife blades, but I agree on the quality of their knives.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

I've had one like this -
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kitchen-Devi...3425968&sr=8-6
for best part of 30 years or so, never been sharpened and still perfect for
the sunday roast.
I have to say, however, that the sides of mine are far smoother (chrome
looking) than the one in the above link, which tends to drag.

In message , Peter Scott
wrote

Knives are a matter of individual preference. I love Globals. I only
need two. The tiny paring knife and a standard chef's knife.

I too use Global knives and use the sharpener with ceramic sharpening
wheels running in water
http://www.chefsresource.com/minosha...ener-black-red
..html
(A couple of years ago i found one from a UK seller at around £25)

--
Alan
news2009 {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Apr 21, 9:53*pm, fred wrote:
I got a kitchen devil sabatier style knife for someone as I was
frustrated at having to use their crap knives when I when to visit and
cook.

It's been a total pita to sharpen since day 1 and I got the impression
that the material was either too hard or that the blade thickness
directly behind the sharp edge was too thick for it to sharpen to a good
edge.

Looking at it the other day it seems that the sharp edge has started to
break up:

http://i55.tinypic.com/fmbzc.jpg

I'm going to try to regrind and resharpen it properly but I wonder if
the material is too hard and should I try to do anything with it
annealing ? wise before I start.

Knife is 8" cooks apparently with a one piece forged bolster and I use a
cheap (but otherwise effective) kitchen devil sharpener, the one that
looks like 2 mini chefs' steels crossed and moulded into a black plastic
handle.

Any advice?

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...harpen_cutlery

If it breaks up again after sharpening, I'd grind it to a less sharp
angle.

No matter what you do, you need to remove bulk metal, so the fine edge
perfecting approaches to sharpening are not what you need. You need to
reform a proper edge shape before you can sharpen it.


NT

On 22/04/2011 00:27, Alan wrote:
In message , Peter Scott
wrote

Knives are a matter of individual preference. I love Globals. I only
need two. The tiny paring knife and a standard chef's knife.

I too use Global knives and use the sharpener with ceramic sharpening
wheels running in water
http://www.chefsresource.com/minosha...ener-black-red
.html
(A couple of years ago i found one from a UK seller at around £25)

My younger son swears by these. I've never used one. I suppose its my
background in woodworking tools. I like to feel the correct angle.

fred wrote:
I got a kitchen devil sabatier style knife for someone as I was
frustrated at having to use their crap knives when I when to visit and
cook.

It's been a total pita to sharpen since day 1 and I got the impression
that the material was either too hard or that the blade thickness
directly behind the sharp edge was too thick for it to sharpen to a good
edge.

Looking at it the other day it seems that the sharp edge has started to
break up:

http://i55.tinypic.com/fmbzc.jpg

I'm going to try to regrind and resharpen it properly but I wonder if
the material is too hard and should I try to do anything with it
annealing ? wise before I start.

Knife is 8" cooks apparently with a one piece forged bolster and I use a
cheap (but otherwise effective) kitchen devil sharpener, the one that
looks like 2 mini chefs' steels crossed and moulded into a black plastic
handle.

Any advice?

You need to but two things.

1/. a carbon steel knife. This will rust in the dishwaher, but at least
its hard enough t take an edge that stays for a few days.

2/. a diamond steel.

No stainless steel knife ever keeps an edge. They are decorative, but
not that useful.

In article
,
Tabby writes

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...harpen_cutlery

If it breaks up again after sharpening, I'd grind it to a less sharp
angle.

No matter what you do, you need to remove bulk metal, so the fine edge
perfecting approaches to sharpening are not what you need. You need to
reform a proper edge shape before you can sharpen it.

Thanks to all for the tips.

As the blade was full of chips I filed it blunt, holding it in a vice
and running along the length of the blade until it showed clean. I took
care to keep the blade shape by even filing. This took a long time as I
believe this blade is over hard and because I resisted the urge to use
power tools.

I decided to use an oilstone to do the reforming/sharpening and bodged
up a jig to keep the oilstone at a conservative 20deg to the blade axis.
It took 500-1000 strokes each side to get the blade back to an edge
after being blunted and another 100 or so each side with the fine grit
side of the stone to finish it off.

Finally I gave it a few runs over with a steel.

It's now an acceptable knife to use although nowhere near as good as my
own Henkels.

I'll see if I can get a better sharpener to leave beside it when I take
it back.

Thanks again.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

In article , john brook
writes

cheapest diamond coated 'steel' i've seen as yet is at Ikea. they are *all*
you need. use wet to prevent clogging. if your knife is useless just work
at it until 'bingo' it cuts like a razor. then use sparingly.

I see Slitbar sharpening steel (diamond coated) £15.31 but also a
ceramic 'steel' Flaksa £9.18 and a draw through sharpener Aspekt £5.10
which the (unclear) picture suggests might be a ceramic wheel one but
not sure. I'll drop in and take a look when I'm next passing, thanks for
the tip.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

On 29/04/2011 14:25, fred wrote:
In article , john brook
writes

cheapest diamond coated 'steel' i've seen as yet is at Ikea. they are
*all*
you need. use wet to prevent clogging. if your knife is useless just work
at it until 'bingo' it cuts like a razor. then use sparingly.

I see Slitbar sharpening steel (diamond coated) £15.31 but also a
ceramic 'steel' Flaksa £9.18 and a draw through sharpener Aspekt £5.10
which the (unclear) picture suggests might be a ceramic wheel one but
not sure. I'll drop in and take a look when I'm next passing, thanks for
the tip.

We have a sharpener on the wall so I can hold the knife with two hands
and pull it through. Just steel rollers in there, but it works a treat
on our normal steel knives.
I've been to peoples houses where the kitchen is full of fancy knives
and sharpeners, and you still can't cut a wafer of ham

responding to
http://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy/...em-701704-.htm
MelaniePalmero wrote:

fred wrote:


I got a kitchen devil sabatier style knife for someone as I was
frustrated at having to use their crap knives when I when to visit and
cook.

It's been a total pita to sharpen since day 1 and I got the impression
that the material was either too hard or that the blade thickness
directly behind the sharp edge was too thick for it to sharpen to a
good
edge.

Looking at it the other day it seems that the sharp edge has started to

break up:

http://i55.tinypic.com/fmbzc.jpg

I'm going to try to regrind and resharpen it properly but I wonder if
the material is too hard and should I try to do anything with it
annealing ? wise before I start.

Knife is 8" cooks apparently with a one piece forged bolster and I
use a
cheap (but otherwise effective) kitchen devil sharpener, the one that
looks like 2 mini chefs' steels crossed and moulded into a black
plastic
handle.

Any advice?


-------------------------------------

Hi Fred, I suggest you try diamond steel. It's not round-shaped so the 22
degree angle to the steel is guaranteed. You might alsowant to check out
Chef Phil's video for a more detailed info on that.


http://www.jesrestaurantequipment.co...entblog/knife-
sharpening-101-chef-phil-knife-sharpening/