It has happened!

My boiler is in the loft and the condensate leads pit to the roof guttering.
I know it wasn't ideal but due to the location and the layout of the house
it wasn't possible to have an internal condensate solution without pipes
down stairwell and into cloakroom.

I am now thinking of tee'ing in an emergency winter by-pass so that if it
freezes again I can drain off into a bucket in my airing cupboard.

If it freezes for just a few days in a cold spell like this I can cope with
it - preferable to major external drain pipes.

Has anyone done this?

John wrote:
It has happened!

My boiler is in the loft and the condensate leads pit to the roof
guttering. I know it wasn't ideal but due to the location and the
layout of the house it wasn't possible to have an internal condensate
solution without pipes down stairwell and into cloakroom.

I am now thinking of tee'ing in an emergency winter by-pass so that
if it freezes again I can drain off into a bucket in my airing
cupboard.
If it freezes for just a few days in a cold spell like this I can
cope with it - preferable to major external drain pipes.

Has anyone done this?

Have you thought about using a heat trace cable? Someone posted a link to a
supplier the other day. It looked very useful
--
Adam

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
John wrote:
It has happened!

My boiler is in the loft and the condensate leads pit to the roof
guttering. I know it wasn't ideal but due to the location and the
layout of the house it wasn't possible to have an internal condensate
solution without pipes down stairwell and into cloakroom.

I am now thinking of tee'ing in an emergency winter by-pass so that
if it freezes again I can drain off into a bucket in my airing
cupboard.
If it freezes for just a few days in a cold spell like this I can
cope with it - preferable to major external drain pipes.

Has anyone done this?

Have you thought about using a heat trace cable? Someone posted a link to
a supplier the other day. It looked very useful
--
Adam



Yes (saw it)- but the problem possibly starts in the guttering - snow gets
in - turns to ice and then works its way to the outlet of the pipe. The pipe
in the loft is well lagged.

Problem is the house is fairly square - double hipped roof. Boiler in centre
where there is height - but still fairly low due to roof angles

John wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
John wrote:
It has happened!

My boiler is in the loft and the condensate leads pit to the roof
guttering. I know it wasn't ideal but due to the location and the
layout of the house it wasn't possible to have an internal
condensate solution without pipes down stairwell and into cloakroom.

I am now thinking of tee'ing in an emergency winter by-pass so that
if it freezes again I can drain off into a bucket in my airing
cupboard.
If it freezes for just a few days in a cold spell like this I can
cope with it - preferable to major external drain pipes.

Has anyone done this?

Have you thought about using a heat trace cable? Someone posted a
link to a supplier the other day. It looked very useful
--
Adam



Yes (saw it)- but the problem possibly starts in the guttering - snow
gets in - turns to ice and then works its way to the outlet of the
pipe. The pipe in the loft is well lagged.

Problem is the house is fairly square - double hipped roof. Boiler in
centre where there is height - but still fairly low due to roof angles

It would not work then. It certainly would not have worked at mine, the fall
pipe on the north side of the house froze solidly up this week. It was
almost certainly the melting of the snow on the roof causing drips down the
pipe that then froze causing an ice plug near the bottom.

--
Adam

On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 09:55:57 -0000, John wrote:

I am now thinking of tee'ing in an emergency winter by-pass so that if
it freezes again I can drain off into a bucket in my airing cupboard.

Sensible. Make sure that the boiler has a water trap built in to
prevent any chance of fumes escaping down the condensate pipe into
the house. Of course if it doesn't have a trap one could construct
one from bends etc...

I think I'd be tempted to make the T a "passive automatic"(*) one and
have a container permenantly under the interior outlet, possibly with
a moisture alarm.

(*) ASCII art:

Boiler
|
| Condensate drain
|
| +--+ Inverted "U"
| | |
+-----T---------- Normal outlet
|
|
| +-+
| | | Constructed trap
+-+ | (If required)
|
|
Bucket

If the normal outlet becomes blocked condensate backs up to the level
of the inverted "U" then flows into the trap and out to the bucket.
Just ensure that the top of the inverted "U" is well below the bottom
of the boiler.

This should work but I don't know how boilers detect a blocked
condensate drain.

Water level alarm:
http://www.electronic-circuits-diagr...msimages/6.gif

Or pop one of these in the bucket "FireAngel Water Alarm H20-1".
£6.98 from B&Q a search on that works, the URL is otherwise 5 lines
long! I suspect that name and product code are B&Q only, google
doesn't bring up much other than links back to B&Q. I'd be surprised
if there are no other similar, cheap, Far Eastern orgin devices on
the market.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
John wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
John wrote:
It has happened!

My boiler is in the loft and the condensate leads pit to the roof
guttering. I know it wasn't ideal but due to the location and the
layout of the house it wasn't possible to have an internal
condensate solution without pipes down stairwell and into cloakroom.

I am now thinking of tee'ing in an emergency winter by-pass so that
if it freezes again I can drain off into a bucket in my airing
cupboard.
If it freezes for just a few days in a cold spell like this I can
cope with it - preferable to major external drain pipes.

Has anyone done this?

Have you thought about using a heat trace cable? Someone posted a
link to a supplier the other day. It looked very useful
--
Adam



Yes (saw it)- but the problem possibly starts in the guttering - snow
gets in - turns to ice and then works its way to the outlet of the
pipe. The pipe in the loft is well lagged.

Problem is the house is fairly square - double hipped roof. Boiler in
centre where there is height - but still fairly low due to roof angles

It would not work then. It certainly would not have worked at mine, the
fall pipe on the north side of the house froze solidly up this week. It
was almost certainly the melting of the snow on the roof causing drips
down the pipe that then froze causing an ice plug near the bottom.

--
Adam



I am thinking of running 32mm pipe across the loft - longer run so minimal
fall - then out into the vent pipe from the W/C / bathroom

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 09:55:57 -0000, John wrote:

I am now thinking of tee'ing in an emergency winter by-pass so that if
it freezes again I can drain off into a bucket in my airing cupboard.

Sensible. Make sure that the boiler has a water trap built in to
prevent any chance of fumes escaping down the condensate pipe into
the house. Of course if it doesn't have a trap one could construct
one from bends etc...

I think I'd be tempted to make the T a "passive automatic"(*) one and
have a container permenantly under the interior outlet, possibly with
a moisture alarm.

(*) ASCII art:

Boiler
|
| Condensate drain
|
| +--+ Inverted "U"
| | |
+-----T---------- Normal outlet
|
|
| +-+
| | | Constructed trap
+-+ | (If required)
|
|
Bucket

If the normal outlet becomes blocked condensate backs up to the level
of the inverted "U" then flows into the trap and out to the bucket.
Just ensure that the top of the inverted "U" is well below the bottom
of the boiler.

This should work but I don't know how boilers detect a blocked
condensate drain.

Water level alarm:
http://www.electronic-circuits-diagr...msimages/6.gif

Or pop one of these in the bucket "FireAngel Water Alarm H20-1".
£6.98 from B&Q a search on that works, the URL is otherwise 5 lines
long! I suspect that name and product code are B&Q only, google
doesn't bring up much other than links back to B&Q. I'd be surprised
if there are no other similar, cheap, Far Eastern orgin devices on
the market.

--
Cheers
Dave.





I like it.

Thanks

On 07/12/2010 10:51, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 09:55:57 -0000, John wrote:

I am now thinking of tee'ing in an emergency winter by-pass so that if
it freezes again I can drain off into a bucket in my airing cupboard.

Sensible. Make sure that the boiler has a water trap built in to
prevent any chance of fumes escaping down the condensate pipe into
the house. Of course if it doesn't have a trap one could construct
one from bends etc...

I think I'd be tempted to make the T a "passive automatic"(*) one and
have a container permenantly under the interior outlet, possibly with
a moisture alarm.

(*) ASCII art:

Boiler
|
| Condensate drain
|
| +--+ Inverted "U"
| | |
+-----T---------- Normal outlet
|
|
| +-+
| | | Constructed trap
+-+ | (If required)
|
|
Bucket

If the normal outlet becomes blocked condensate backs up to the level
of the inverted "U" then flows into the trap and out to the bucket.
Just ensure that the top of the inverted "U" is well below the bottom
of the boiler.

This should work but I don't know how boilers detect a blocked
condensate drain.

Water level alarm:
http://www.electronic-circuits-diagr...msimages/6.gif

Or pop one of these in the bucket "FireAngel Water Alarm H20-1".
£6.98 from B&Q a search on that works, the URL is otherwise 5 lines
long! I suspect that name and product code are B&Q only, google
doesn't bring up much other than links back to B&Q. I'd be surprised
if there are no other similar, cheap, Far Eastern orgin devices on
the market.

How much condensate does one get from these boilers?

Clive George wrote:

How much condensate does one get from these boilers?

Well, natural gas is methane (CH4) innit, so the reaction is

CH4 + 2 O2 - CO2 + 2 H2O

So each 16kg of gas will use up 64kg of oxygen and produce
44kg of CO2 and 36kg of water.

I don't know how efficient the condensation process is, in terms
of how much of the water is condensed into liquid and how much
goes out into the atmosphere. Suppose that roughly 2/3 is recovered
and the other 1/3 escapes.

Methane density is around 0.7kg/m3, so I therefore reckon that you
need to burn 10 m3 of gas to fill a typical (10l) bucket with water.

"Clive George" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 07/12/2010 10:51, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 09:55:57 -0000, John wrote:

I am now thinking of tee'ing in an emergency winter by-pass so that if
it freezes again I can drain off into a bucket in my airing cupboard.

Sensible. Make sure that the boiler has a water trap built in to
prevent any chance of fumes escaping down the condensate pipe into
the house. Of course if it doesn't have a trap one could construct
one from bends etc...

I think I'd be tempted to make the T a "passive automatic"(*) one and
have a container permenantly under the interior outlet, possibly with
a moisture alarm.

(*) ASCII art:

Boiler
|
| Condensate drain
|
| +--+ Inverted "U"
| | |
+-----T---------- Normal outlet
|
|
| +-+
| | | Constructed trap
+-+ | (If required)
|
|
Bucket

If the normal outlet becomes blocked condensate backs up to the level
of the inverted "U" then flows into the trap and out to the bucket.
Just ensure that the top of the inverted "U" is well below the bottom
of the boiler.

This should work but I don't know how boilers detect a blocked
condensate drain.

Water level alarm:
http://www.electronic-circuits-diagr...msimages/6.gif

Or pop one of these in the bucket "FireAngel Water Alarm H20-1".
£6.98 from B&Q a search on that works, the URL is otherwise 5 lines
long! I suspect that name and product code are B&Q only, google
doesn't bring up much other than links back to B&Q. I'd be surprised
if there are no other similar, cheap, Far Eastern orgin devices on
the market.

How much condensate does one get from these boilers?




I reckon I have had just over a pint since this morning. Mine condenses on
DHW and CH.

On 07/12/10 14:52, Clive George wrote:

How much condensate does one get from these boilers?

I'm getting around 4 litres a day at the moment.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 09:55:57 -0000, John wrote:

I am now thinking of tee'ing in an emergency winter by-pass so that if
it freezes again I can drain off into a bucket in my airing cupboard.

Sensible. Make sure that the boiler has a water trap built in to
prevent any chance of fumes escaping down the condensate pipe into
the house. Of course if it doesn't have a trap one could construct
one from bends etc...

I think I'd be tempted to make the T a "passive automatic"(*) one and
have a container permenantly under the interior outlet, possibly with
a moisture alarm.

(*) ASCII art:

Boiler
|
| Condensate drain
|
| +--+ Inverted "U"
| | |
+-----T---------- Normal outlet
|
|
| +-+
| | | Constructed trap
+-+ | (If required)
|
|
Bucket

If the normal outlet becomes blocked condensate backs up to the level
of the inverted "U" then flows into the trap and out to the bucket.
Just ensure that the top of the inverted "U" is well below the bottom
of the boiler.

This should work but I don't know how boilers detect a blocked
condensate drain.

Water level alarm:
http://www.electronic-circuits-diagr...msimages/6.gif

Or pop one of these in the bucket "FireAngel Water Alarm H20-1".
£6.98 from B&Q a search on that works, the URL is otherwise 5 lines
long! I suspect that name and product code are B&Q only, google
doesn't bring up much other than links back to B&Q. I'd be surprised
if there are no other similar, cheap, Far Eastern orgin devices on
the market.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 09:55:57 -0000, John wrote:

I am now thinking of tee'ing in an emergency winter by-pass so that if
it freezes again I can drain off into a bucket in my airing cupboard.

Sensible. Make sure that the boiler has a water trap built in to
prevent any chance of fumes escaping down the condensate pipe into
the house. Of course if it doesn't have a trap one could construct
one from bends etc...

I think I'd be tempted to make the T a "passive automatic"(*) one and
have a container permenantly under the interior outlet, possibly with
a moisture alarm.

(*) ASCII art:

Boiler
|
| Condensate drain
|
| +--+ Inverted "U"
| | |
+-----T---------- Normal outlet
|
|
| +-+
| | | Constructed trap
+-+ | (If required)
|
|
Bucket

If the normal outlet becomes blocked condensate backs up to the level
of the inverted "U" then flows into the trap and out to the bucket.
Just ensure that the top of the inverted "U" is well below the bottom
of the boiler.

This should work but I don't know how boilers detect a blocked
condensate drain.

Water level alarm:
http://www.electronic-circuits-diagr...msimages/6.gif

Or pop one of these in the bucket "FireAngel Water Alarm H20-1".
£6.98 from B&Q a search on that works, the URL is otherwise 5 lines
long! I suspect that name and product code are B&Q only, google
doesn't bring up much other than links back to B&Q. I'd be surprised
if there are no other similar, cheap, Far Eastern orgin devices on
the market.

--
Cheers
Dave.





Dave - I have followed your idea - with an upward pointing tee with about an
inch of pipe - then down into my airing cupboard where a bucket is awaiting
any condensate that can't get out the blocked route.
First time I had used solvent weld joints. I now feel more confident to
re-plumb the waste in my cloakroom - ditch the white painted brown pipe and
get some white with the more compact solvent weld joints.

On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 19:46:43 -0000, John wrote:

Dave - I have followed your idea - with an upward pointing tee with
about an inch of pipe - then down into my airing cupboard where a bucket
is awaiting any condensate that can't get out the blocked route.

Just makes sure no flue gases can get out of that pipe. With the fans
and things inside the boiler and the flue gases being forced out of
the flue the inside of the boiler will be at a higher pressure than
the room (airing cupboard).

Saw one of your other posts about access to the top of the soil
stack. Is that an internal stack? Connecting into that would be
better than the bucket and alarm, though not totaly sure about the
regs.

We had a warning pipe connected into the top of an internal stack.
Still worked as a warning as the junction into the stack leaked...
Fortunately it didn't damage any ceilings or floors.

First time I had used solvent weld joints. I now feel more confident to
re-plumb the waste in my cloakroom - ditch the white painted brown pipe
and get some white with the more compact solvent weld joints.

Remember that solvent weld does not come apart for the removal of
blockages or retreival of items. Planning access to each run of pipe
can save a lot of agro later.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"
Saw one of your other posts about access to the top of the soil
stack. Is that an internal stack? Connecting into that would be
better than the bucket and alarm, though not totaly sure about the
regs.

--
Cheers
Dave.





It is external. It will require a longer pipe run across the loft and will
be a source of annoyance to SWMBO. If I aim the pipe carefully it will only
have about 8" external.

On Wed, 8 Dec 2010 08:34:49 -0000, John wrote:

If I aim the pipe carefully it will only have about 8" external.

Forget it then. Stick with the bucket...

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article ,
Clive George writes:

How much condensate does one get from these boilers?

When I first installed mine, I ran it into a bucket just because
I was interested to see. Heating upstairs only overnight generated
about half a bucket. (I hadn't installed the downstairs circuit at
that point.) Boilers vary enormouly in how much of it they collect
verses how much plumes (even when it's all condensing). This one
(a Keston Celcius 25) plumes quite little compared with most I see.
Length of flue probably makes a significant difference too.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]