Hi

Awoke this morning to no heating due to frozen condensate pipe on new boiler
:-(
Boiler is in integral garage with no convenient internal drain, so
condensate pipe runs the length of the garage and exits through wall with
about 2" protruding over drain-pipe drain. Managed to pull about 18" slug of
ice out with help of hair drier and all was well.

So, what is the best way to prevent this in future? Pipe is about 20mm but I
dont really want to install a larger bore due to the need for a larger hole
through the wall. I'm in two minds about insulation - there's very little to
lag on the outside, but will lagging on the inside help or hinder? The
garage is pretty well insulated and never anywhere near freezing. I was
wondering about inserting a length of copper tubing or a metal rod up the
pipe with the idea that this would take some of the heat from the garage
into the final section of the pipe where the freezing is starting?

Thanks for any suggestions
Tom

On 27/11/2010 11:27, Thomas wrote:
Hi

Awoke this morning to no heating due to frozen condensate pipe on new boiler
:-(
Boiler is in integral garage with no convenient internal drain, so
condensate pipe runs the length of the garage and exits through wall with
about 2" protruding over drain-pipe drain. Managed to pull about 18" slug of
ice out with help of hair drier and all was well.

So, what is the best way to prevent this in future? Pipe is about 20mm but I
dont really want to install a larger bore due to the need for a larger hole
through the wall. I'm in two minds about insulation - there's very little to
lag on the outside, but will lagging on the inside help or hinder? The
garage is pretty well insulated and never anywhere near freezing. I was
wondering about inserting a length of copper tubing or a metal rod up the
pipe with the idea that this would take some of the heat from the garage
into the final section of the pipe where the freezing is starting?

Thanks for any suggestions
Tom



I would expect the problem to be in the outside section, so would start
by lagging that and seeing if that cures it.

Colin Bignell

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote in message
...
On 27/11/2010 11:27, Thomas wrote:
Hi

Awoke this morning to no heating due to frozen condensate pipe on new
boiler
:-(
Boiler is in integral garage with no convenient internal drain, so
condensate pipe runs the length of the garage and exits through wall with
about 2" protruding over drain-pipe drain. Managed to pull about 18" slug
of
ice out with help of hair drier and all was well.

So, what is the best way to prevent this in future? Pipe is about 20mm
but I
dont really want to install a larger bore due to the need for a larger
hole
through the wall. I'm in two minds about insulation - there's very little
to
lag on the outside, but will lagging on the inside help or hinder? The
garage is pretty well insulated and never anywhere near freezing. I was
wondering about inserting a length of copper tubing or a metal rod up the
pipe with the idea that this would take some of the heat from the garage
into the final section of the pipe where the freezing is starting?

Thanks for any suggestions
Tom



I would expect the problem to be in the outside section, so would start by
lagging that and seeing if that cures it.

Colin Bignell


Is there a tee over the end to help prevent draughts going up the pipe?

Thomas wrote:
Hi

Awoke this morning to no heating due to frozen condensate pipe on new
boiler :-(
Boiler is in integral garage with no convenient internal drain, so
condensate pipe runs the length of the garage and exits through wall
with about 2" protruding over drain-pipe drain. Managed to pull about
18" slug of ice out with help of hair drier and all was well.

So, what is the best way to prevent this in future? Pipe is about
20mm but I dont really want to install a larger bore due to the need
for a larger hole through the wall. I'm in two minds about insulation
- there's very little to lag on the outside, but will lagging on the
inside help or hinder? The garage is pretty well insulated and never
anywhere near freezing. I was wondering about inserting a length of
copper tubing or a metal rod up the pipe with the idea that this
would take some of the heat from the garage into the final section of
the pipe where the freezing is starting?

Could you modify something like this for the outside section?
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p99947


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 27/11/2010 12:03, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Thomas wrote:
Hi

Awoke this morning to no heating due to frozen condensate pipe on new
boiler :-(
Boiler is in integral garage with no convenient internal drain, so
condensate pipe runs the length of the garage and exits through wall
with about 2" protruding over drain-pipe drain. Managed to pull about
18" slug of ice out with help of hair drier and all was well.

So, what is the best way to prevent this in future? Pipe is about
20mm but I dont really want to install a larger bore due to the need
for a larger hole through the wall. I'm in two minds about insulation
- there's very little to lag on the outside, but will lagging on the
inside help or hinder? The garage is pretty well insulated and never
anywhere near freezing. I was wondering about inserting a length of
copper tubing or a metal rod up the pipe with the idea that this
would take some of the heat from the garage into the final section of
the pipe where the freezing is starting?

Could you modify something like this for the outside section?
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p99947


You might want to look at what the gradient is on the pipe especially at
the end , increasing it and lagging the whole length might help matters.
AIUI using 32mm pipe is the proper way to go where there is a danger of
freezing.
If you have and other waste pipes in the garage ie washing machine,
emptying the condensate into this would be even better

On 27/11/2010 11:27, Thomas wrote:

So, what is the best way to prevent this in future? Pipe is about 20mm but I
dont really want to install a larger bore due to the need for a larger hole
through the wall. I'm in two minds about insulation - there's very little to
lag on the outside, but will lagging on the inside help or hinder?

Can't see why either would hinder?

I'm thinking the problem is probably related to the overall length of
the pipe. I suspect the drop on it is relatively shallow; maybe even
has a dip in it where water could collect (not even anywhere near the
frozen bit?) The point is that in most boilers, the condensate exits
via a syphon arrangement rather like a urinal toilet flush; ie rather
than dribbling water out gradually and continuously, which would
certainly encourage freezing up, it collects in a reservoir which dumps
all the water every half-hour or so. However, if you have a long, very
shallow run on your pipework, and certainly if there's any chance of
water collecting along it's route, that will cancel out (either wholly
or in part) the benefit of the syphon arrangemnent.

Or maybe you don't have the syphon in your boiler?

I'd suggest lagging the entire length (if you can raise the temperature
of the water exiting the pipe outside it can only help) and if necessary
increasing the drop on the pipe *especially* where it goes through the
wall (which may necessitate drilling a new hole).

HTH
David

robert wrote:
On 27/11/2010 12:03, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Thomas wrote:
Hi

Awoke this morning to no heating due to frozen condensate pipe on
new boiler :-(
Boiler is in integral garage with no convenient internal drain, so
condensate pipe runs the length of the garage and exits through wall
with about 2" protruding over drain-pipe drain. Managed to pull
about 18" slug of ice out with help of hair drier and all was well.

So, what is the best way to prevent this in future? Pipe is about
20mm but I dont really want to install a larger bore due to the need
for a larger hole through the wall. I'm in two minds about
insulation - there's very little to lag on the outside, but will
lagging on the inside help or hinder? The garage is pretty well
insulated and never anywhere near freezing. I was wondering about
inserting a length of copper tubing or a metal rod up the pipe with
the idea that this would take some of the heat from the garage into
the final section of the pipe where the freezing is starting?



AIUI using 32mm pipe is the proper way to go where there is
a danger of freezing.

I'll second that.

--
Adam

On Nov 27, 12:49*pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
AIUI using 32mm pipe is the proper way to go where there is

a danger of freezing.

I'll second that.

This place is selling trace wire (5 watts/metre) that you cable tie to
the condensate line to prevent freezing. http://www.theclevercablecompany.co.uk/
The site says the stat only kicks in below 4c. I've not tried it so
can't vouch for its success, but you shouldn't need a lot of heat in
the pipe to stop it freezing if its lagged too.

Dave.

Many thanks for all of the helpful suggestions and advice.

I've added an elbow to the external stub and wrapped the whole lot in foam
insulation - I'm hoping this will prevent windchill and keep in some of the
heat from the house. If that doesn't work then I'll upgrade to a larger bore
and add more insulation - unfortunatley it's hard to see how I could
increase the fall on the pipe.

Thanks again
Tom

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 11:27:03 -0000, Thomas wrote:

Awoke this morning to no heating due to frozen condensate pipe on new
boiler :-(

Congratulations on the first "frozen condensate drain" posting of the
2010/11 season. B-)

As others have said the drain should be 32mm where there is a chance
of freezing. What can be done?

Lagging inside should mean that the water is warmer when it gets to
the outside so stands less chance of freezing.

Make sure there is a fall on the pipe where it goes through the wall,
so water doesn't sit in that section of pipe. Condensate is only a
dribble not a flow, so it might not clear like a flow would.

Cut the pipe inside and stick a bucket under it. Roughly every kg of
gas burnt produces a kg (1 litre) of water. I'm not sure how 1kg of
LNG equates to cu ft (or m) of gas at appliance pressure. I doubt
you'd get a bucket full of water/day but even if you do it's in the
garage...

--
Cheers
Dave.