Hi all,
The house next door is being extended and as part of that work our
"semidetached" garage which we re-did about 5 years ago in breeze block
and tiles was undetached from their horrible falling down asbestos garage.

Next doors owners want to cut the pillars which support the breezeblock
walls back to flush with the outside of our garage (there are 4 pillars
about 6ft apart along the outside wall of our garage so the inside of
our garage has flush walls).

I believe that cutting these pillars will weaken the wall structure and
make the garage fall down. If we extend pillars on the inside of our
garage (Which wouldn't be as strong as the foundations weren't built to
accommodate this) we won't be able to get the car in the garage and be
able to open the doors to get out of the car.

Is there any other way of supporting a single breezeblock wall of 20
feet (5 mtrs) if these double thickness pillars are removed.? It's
London Clay soil if that makes any difference.

I need a quick answer on this as I need to persuade him he can't do this
in the morning.

Fortunately we neglected to sign any party wall agreement with him so we
haven't technically agreed to anything but the removal of his part of
the garage structure.

dedics

On Nov 25, 6:08 pm, Ian & Hilda Dedic
wrote:
Hi all,
The house next door is being extended and as part of that work our
"semidetached" garage which we re-did about 5 years ago in breeze block
and tiles was undetached from their horrible falling down asbestos garage.

Next doors owners want to cut the pillars which support the breezeblock
walls back to flush with the outside of our garage (there are 4 pillars
about 6ft apart along the outside wall of our garage so the inside of
our garage has flush walls).

I believe that cutting these pillars will weaken the wall structure and
make the garage fall down. If we extend pillars on the inside of our
garage (Which wouldn't be as strong as the foundations weren't built to
accommodate this) we won't be able to get the car in the garage and be
able to open the doors to get out of the car.

Is there any other way of supporting a single breezeblock wall of 20
feet (5 mtrs) if these double thickness pillars are removed.? It's
London Clay soil if that makes any difference.

I need a quick answer on this as I need to persuade him he can't do this
in the morning.

Fortunately we neglected to sign any party wall agreement with him so we
haven't technically agreed to anything but the removal of his part of
the garage structure.

dedics

I would start mentioning phrases like "Party Wall act" "appoint a
surveyor each to look after each others interests" and "all fees paid
by you"....see if he still wants to boogie ;)

if he does follow the Party Wall Act and that should cover your a$se

Jim K

Ian & Hilda Dedic gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying:

Next doors owners want to cut the pillars which support the breezeblock
walls back to flush with the outside of our garage (there are 4 pillars
about 6ft apart along the outside wall of our garage so the inside of
our garage has flush walls).

I believe that cutting these pillars will weaken the wall structure and
make the garage fall down.

I need a quick answer on this as I need to persuade him he can't do this
in the morning.

It's quite simple. Unless and until his architect can show you structural
calculations to prove that it won't, then all bets are off.

On 25/11/2010 18:32, Adrian wrote:
Ian& Hilda gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying:

Next doors owners want to cut the pillars which support the breezeblock
walls back to flush with the outside of our garage (there are 4 pillars
about 6ft apart along the outside wall of our garage so the inside of
our garage has flush walls).

I believe that cutting these pillars will weaken the wall structure and
make the garage fall down.

I need a quick answer on this as I need to persuade him he can't do this
in the morning.

It's quite simple. Unless and until his architect can show you structural
calculations to prove that it won't, then all bets are off.

Thanks for that, I was hoping to have some alternative suggestions for
construction, so that I appeared halfway reasonable, but as it is our
existing structure, even if the pillars are over the boundary (which
they might be by about 2 inches) although they were holding up his
ramshackle garage originally I'm assuming he can't touch it without our
express say so.

He has offered to get his builders to screed and paint the part of the
garage wall which was inside their old garage,and is now therefore
outside, for us so I don't want to get into a big dispute with him but I
don't want to presented with a fait accompli and therefore unstable
garage when I get home tomorrow.

I am right in thinking that pillars in a single breezeblock wall every
6ft or so to support a tiled pitched roof is not over engineered?

dedics

On Nov 25, 6:44 pm, Ian & Hilda Dedic
wrote:
On 25/11/2010 18:32, Adrian wrote:



Ian& Hilda gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying:

Next doors owners want to cut the pillars which support the breezeblock
walls back to flush with the outside of our garage (there are 4 pillars
about 6ft apart along the outside wall of our garage so the inside of
our garage has flush walls).

I believe that cutting these pillars will weaken the wall structure and
make the garage fall down.

I need a quick answer on this as I need to persuade him he can't do this
in the morning.

It's quite simple. Unless and until his architect can show you structural
calculations to prove that it won't, then all bets are off.

Thanks for that, I was hoping to have some alternative suggestions for
construction, so that I appeared halfway reasonable, but as it is our
existing structure, even if the pillars are over the boundary (which
they might be by about 2 inches) although they were holding up his
ramshackle garage originally I'm assuming he can't touch it without our
express say so.

He has offered to get his builders to screed and paint the part of the
garage wall which was inside their old garage,and is now therefore
outside, for us so I don't want to get into a big dispute with him

eh? but won't that be the bit of the wall that *he* will look at?!?

but I
don't want to presented with a fait accompli and therefore unstable
garage when I get home tomorrow.

I am right in thinking that pillars in a single breezeblock wall every
6ft or so to support a tiled pitched roof is not over engineered?

This is all backwards to my eye:-

1) don't fall for this trojan horse "render" deal,
2) you *do not* need to prove to him that his ideas are risky for your
property.
3) You need to get him to prove to *your surveyor/architect/insurance
company's satisfaction* that your property will not be adversely
affected by his actions.
Full Stop

Better phone in work 1st thing and take time to state your position to
him (or failing that the site boss) personally...

Cheers
Jim K

"Ian & Hilda Dedic" wrote in message
...

I am right in thinking that pillars in a single breezeblock wall every 6ft
or so to support a tiled pitched roof is not over engineered?

They aren't there to support the roof, a single brick thickness will do it
with ease as it does so on many houses.
They are there to stop lateral loads toppling the wall.
I don't see how this could happen if the wall is tied to the house by the
roof, that does depend on how the roof is constructed and there are no
details here.

Ian & Hilda Dedic wrote:

On 25/11/2010 18:32, Adrian wrote:

Ian& Hilda wrote:

Next doors owners want to cut the pillars which support the breezeblock
walls I need a quick answer on this as I need to persuade him he can't
do this in the morning.

It's quite simple. Unless and until his architect can show you structural
calculations to prove that it won't, then all bets are off.

I was hoping to have some alternative suggestions for
construction, so that I appeared halfway reasonable

Preventing him to hacking you garage about *is* being reasonable.

but as it is our
existing structure, even if the pillars are over the boundary (which
they might be by about 2 inches)

Ahh that might complicate things, how long has it been there, and did
you have permission for it to extend there?

I think the solicitor idea might be closer to the mark.

I am right in thinking that pillars in a single breezeblock wall every
6ft or so to support a tiled pitched roof is not over engineered?

The pillars are probably not so much to support the roof, but the make
the garage wall itself more rigid, just like piers on any other
long/tall wall.

On Nov 25, 7:19 pm, Andy Burns wrote:
Ian & Hilda Dedic wrote:

On 25/11/2010 18:32, Adrian wrote:

Ian& Hilda wrote:

Next doors owners want to cut the pillars which support the breezeblock
walls I need a quick answer on this as I need to persuade him he can't
do this in the morning.

It's quite simple. Unless and until his architect can show you structural
calculations to prove that it won't, then all bets are off.

I was hoping to have some alternative suggestions for
construction, so that I appeared halfway reasonable

Preventing him to hacking you garage about *is* being reasonable.

but as it is our
existing structure, even if the pillars are over the boundary (which
they might be by about 2 inches)

mmm how far do they project from the face of the wall all told?

(If he is prepared to rebuild your garage if he knocks it down, let
his builders (try and) take the 2" off the pillars..;)

Ahh that might complicate things, how long has it been there, and did
you have permission for it to extend there?

OP says previously a semi detached garage - so this spine wall was
holding both up? seems more than fair that he only has a 2" projection
of piers as OP's land has rest of whole wall ??!!

Jim K

On 25/11/2010 19:07, dennis@home wrote:


"Ian & Hilda Dedic" wrote in message
...

I am right in thinking that pillars in a single breezeblock wall every
6ft or so to support a tiled pitched roof is not over engineered?

They aren't there to support the roof, a single brick thickness will do
it with ease as it does so on many houses.
They are there to stop lateral loads toppling the wall.
I don't see how this could happen if the wall is tied to the house by
the roof, that does depend on how the roof is constructed and there are
no details here.
No it's a completely free standing garage now!

it was semidetached to nextdoors ramshackle garage and the planners
wouldn't let us build a wall across the front to tie our garage to the
house to the house when we applied for planning several years back,
there's a painted marine ply board across the gate to the garden.


the set up was

2 semi houses|____|2 semi garages|____|2 semi houses

and now


2 semi houses|____|our freestanding garage|__|2 semi houses

The tiled roof is supported on rafters across two single breeze block
walls and slopes from the boundary line downwards towards our house.
Hope this explains a bit better

dedics

On 25/11/2010 19:25, Jim K wrote:
On Nov 25, 7:19 pm, Andy wrote:
Ian& Hilda Dedic wrote:

On 25/11/2010 18:32, Adrian wrote:

Ian& Hilda wrote:

Next doors owners want to cut the pillars which support the breezeblock
walls I need a quick answer on this as I need to persuade him he can't
do this in the morning.

It's quite simple. Unless and until his architect can show you structural
calculations to prove that it won't, then all bets are off.

I was hoping to have some alternative suggestions for
construction, so that I appeared halfway reasonable

Preventing him to hacking you garage about *is* being reasonable.

but as it is our
existing structure, even if the pillars are over the boundary (which
they might be by about 2 inches)

mmm how far do they project from the face of the wall all told?

about 4 inches all told, and the original wall between the old garages
had pillars too.

dedics

(If he is prepared to rebuild your garage if he knocks it down, let
his builders (try and) take the 2" off the pillars..;)

Ahh that might complicate things, how long has it been there, and did
you have permission for it to extend there?

OP says previously a semi detached garage - so this spine wall was
holding both up? seems more than fair that he only has a 2" projection
of piers as OP's land has rest of whole wall ??!!

Jim K

On Nov 25, 6:44*pm, Ian & Hilda Dedic
wrote:

Thanks for that, I was hoping to have some alternative suggestions for
construction, so that I appeared halfway reasonable, but as it is our
existing structure, even if the pillars are over the boundary (which
they might be by about 2 inches)

How could you possibly _know_ that? I'm not being rude - this is a
really important question.

Other than confirmation that you shouldn't let them touch your garage,
this isn't something best answered in a DIY forum. However, there's an
excellent "garden law" forum which might help greatly...

http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php

Start by reading the threads and discussions about what is a boundary,
and what defines it. You might be surprised. As others have said, try
to understand the implications of the party wall act. Also check what
(if anything) it says in your deeds.

You don't want a boundary dispute, and you don't want to fall out with
your neighbour, but you don't want your garage putting at risk either.

More importantly you don't want your neighbours extension doing more
harm than it's allowed to. Check planning permission, foundations,
etc.

Good luck!

Cheers,
David.

On 26/11/2010 14:52, David Robinson wrote:
On Nov 25, 6:44 pm, Ian& Hilda
wrote:

Thanks for that, I was hoping to have some alternative suggestions for
construction, so that I appeared halfway reasonable, but as it is our
existing structure, even if the pillars are over the boundary (which
they might be by about 2 inches)

How could you possibly _know_ that? I'm not being rude - this is a
really important question.

Other than confirmation that you shouldn't let them touch your garage,
this isn't something best answered in a DIY forum. However, there's an
excellent "garden law" forum which might help greatly...

http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php

Start by reading the threads and discussions about what is a boundary,
and what defines it. You might be surprised. As others have said, try
to understand the implications of the party wall act. Also check what
(if anything) it says in your deeds.

You don't want a boundary dispute, and you don't want to fall out with
your neighbour, but you don't want your garage putting at risk either.

More importantly you don't want your neighbours extension doing more
harm than it's allowed to. Check planning permission, foundations,
etc.

Good luck!

Cheers,
David.
Thanks for the info, we seem to have got the message across to the
builders, so all is now well. It's useful stuff about the boundary
, and presumed ownership.

I assumed that since we had built our new garage wall entirely along our
side of the old boundary wall with just a few pillare sticking out
where needed these might concievably be over the line by an inch or two,
but all is well now, discussion seemed to do the trick.

thanks to all who contributed.

dedics

On Nov 26, 3:30 pm, Ian & Hilda Dedic
wrote:
On 26/11/2010 14:52, David Robinson wrote:

On Nov 25, 6:44 pm, Ian& Hilda
wrote:

Thanks for that, I was hoping to have some alternative suggestions for
construction, so that I appeared halfway reasonable, but as it is our
existing structure, even if the pillars are over the boundary (which
they might be by about 2 inches)

How could you possibly _know_ that? I'm not being rude - this is a
really important question.

Other than confirmation that you shouldn't let them touch your garage,
this isn't something best answered in a DIY forum. However, there's an
excellent "garden law" forum which might help greatly...

http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php

Start by reading the threads and discussions about what is a boundary,
and what defines it. You might be surprised. As others have said, try
to understand the implications of the party wall act. Also check what
(if anything) it says in your deeds.

You don't want a boundary dispute, and you don't want to fall out with
your neighbour, but you don't want your garage putting at risk either.

More importantly you don't want your neighbours extension doing more
harm than it's allowed to. Check planning permission, foundations,
etc.

Good luck!

Cheers,
David.

Thanks for the info, we seem to have got the message across to the
builders, so all is now well. It's useful stuff about the boundary
, and presumed ownership.

I assumed that since we had built our new garage wall entirely along our
side of the old boundary wall with just a few pillare sticking out
where needed these might concievably be over the line by an inch or two,
but all is well now, discussion seemed to do the trick.

thanks to all who contributed.

dedics

so all that remains is to keep an eye on what next door may/may not
build behind your garage wall - it soiunds to me that there should be
a gap maintained where the true boundary is. if moves are afoot to
build something in the gap the Party Wall Act comes in and both sides
agreed & documented *before* anything is constructed

Jim K

"Ian & Hilda Dedic" wrote in message
...
On 25/11/2010 19:07, dennis@home wrote:


"Ian & Hilda Dedic" wrote in message
...

I am right in thinking that pillars in a single breezeblock wall every
6ft or so to support a tiled pitched roof is not over engineered?

They aren't there to support the roof, a single brick thickness will do
it with ease as it does so on many houses.
They are there to stop lateral loads toppling the wall.
I don't see how this could happen if the wall is tied to the house by
the roof, that does depend on how the roof is constructed and there are
no details here.
No it's a completely free standing garage now!

The ends of the wall where they turn in will provide some stability assuming
they exist and are tied into the wall.
I don't recall what length of wall is allowed before you need intermediate
piers.
You need an expert to check the construction to see if they can be removed
or to see if the wall needs stiffening before its done.