This summer I've been trying to get rid of nettles and thistles prior to
planting trees on my 1.5 acre field. I have been using "Roundup" which I
bought as a cheap end of line at a local garden centre (£2.99 for the usual
£10.99 bottles). I now need to stock up on some more or something equally
as good. It must be able to kill nettles and thistles but must be able to
be sprayed safely around trees without harming them. I know there are some
who doubt that roundup biodegrades but I am willing to believe the
manufacturer unless someone comes up with proof positive.
So now the question. In researching cheaper sources, I've come across the
problem that there are a number of different variants of roundup. The CG
form seems to have 120g/litre of glyphosate, the ultimate form 360g/litre
and the brush and shrub(? has 480g/litre but is it that simple? I've also
read that you ought to add ammonium sulphate if you are using hard(ish)
water to dilute it!
If it is to be roundup, which form?
Where is the cheapest place to get it?
I see that Amazon has the CG at £14.06 per litre but I hear that
agricultural supplies firms sell it in 5 litre bottles.
Any advice appreciated.

Lawrence

On 24/10/2010 19:55, Lawrence wrote:
This summer I've been trying to get rid of nettles and thistles prior to
planting trees on my 1.5 acre field. I have been using "Roundup" which I
bought as a cheap end of line at a local garden centre (£2.99 for the
usual £10.99 bottles). I now need to stock up on some more or something
equally as good. It must be able to kill nettles and thistles but must
be able to be sprayed safely around trees without harming them. I know
there are some who doubt that roundup biodegrades but I am willing to
believe the manufacturer unless someone comes up with proof positive.
So now the question. In researching cheaper sources, I've come across
the problem that there are a number of different variants of roundup.
The CG form seems to have 120g/litre of glyphosate, the ultimate form
360g/litre and the brush and shrub(? has 480g/litre but is it that
simple? I've also read that you ought to add ammonium sulphate if you
are using hard(ish) water to dilute it!
If it is to be roundup, which form?
Where is the cheapest place to get it?
I see that Amazon has the CG at £14.06 per litre but I hear that
agricultural supplies firms sell it in 5 litre bottles.
Any advice appreciated.

Lawrence
Look in your garden centre.There is now another supplier at less than
one-third the price. Too wet to go the shed now, but I think its Bayer.
I was very skeptical, having always used Roundup, but its just as good.

Once the lakes recede I'll get the exact name. £11 a bottle instead of
£40 or so.

Peter Scott

"Lawrence" wrote in message
...
This summer I've been trying to get rid of nettles and thistles prior to
planting trees on my 1.5 acre field. I have been using "Roundup" which I
bought as a cheap end of line at a local garden centre (£2.99 for the
usual £10.99 bottles). I now need to stock up on some more or something
equally as good. It must be able to kill nettles and thistles but must be
able to be sprayed safely around trees without harming them. I know there
are some who doubt that roundup biodegrades but I am willing to believe
the manufacturer unless someone comes up with proof positive.
So now the question. In researching cheaper sources, I've come across the
problem that there are a number of different variants of roundup. The CG
form seems to have 120g/litre of glyphosate, the ultimate form 360g/litre
and the brush and shrub(? has 480g/litre but is it that simple? I've also
read that you ought to add ammonium sulphate if you are using hard(ish)
water to dilute it!
If it is to be roundup, which form?
Where is the cheapest place to get it?
I see that Amazon has the CG at £14.06 per litre but I hear that
agricultural supplies firms sell it in 5 litre bottles.
Any advice appreciated.

Lawrence

Borrow some pigs: they soon get rid of everything... but...

Lots of trees in our town have been killed by the council obsession with
killing everything that grows around them - and ringbarking them with
strimmers for good measure. Those that aren't killed outright suffer and
drop their leaves instead, and are then accused of being diseased and so are
chainsawed before they get the chance to recover.

Except for a few trees like yew and rhododendron - which poison just about
everything -, most get along fine with the right things growing beneath
them, and this helps maintain the soil structure, biota, moisture and
microclimate on which they depend.

And my experience - at least with 'shed grade' Roundup -, is that it just
turns weeds a nasty brown colour and then they just grow back from the
roots.

Actually, I would just plant your trees in with the nettles and thistles:
this will hide them from the rabbits and deer to some extent and give them a
chance to get rooted before the top gets browsed off. Remember: the HARD
thing, is STOPPING land reverting to woodland. Large numbers of
conservation volunteers spend most of their time trying to stop woodland
from forming on what they want to keep as grassland. If you just fenced out
your 1.5 acres from deer and rabbits you would soon have a wood.

S

On Sun, 24 Oct 2010 19:55:08 +0100, Lawrence wrote:

This summer I've been trying to get rid of nettles and thistles prior to
planting trees on my 1.5 acre field.

Nettles don't like being topped do it two or three times a year for a
couple of years and they'll be gone. Thistles don't come back from
being dug up, provided you get most of the tap root and they are in
full flower but not gone to seed. Shove a fork full depth around the
plant, waggle, lift and pull the plant. Best to do it when it after
it has rained and the soil is soft.

1.5 acres with thistle plants every couple of feet would be a lot of
thistle plants to get rid of and take a day or two.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 24 Oct, 19:55, "Lawrence" wrote:
This summer I've been trying to get rid of nettles and thistles prior to
planting trees on my 1.5 acre field. I have been using "Roundup" which I
bought as a cheap end of line at a local garden centre (£2.99 for the usual
£10.99 bottles). I now need to stock up on some more or something equally
as good. It must be able to kill nettles and thistles but must be able to
be sprayed safely around trees without harming them. I know there are some
who doubt that roundup biodegrades but I am willing to believe the
manufacturer unless someone comes up with proof positive.
So now the question. In researching cheaper sources, I've come across the
problem that there are a number of different variants of roundup. The CG
form seems to have 120g/litre of glyphosate, the ultimate form 360g/litre
and the brush and shrub(? has 480g/litre but is it that simple? I've also
read that you ought to add ammonium sulphate if you are using hard(ish)
water to dilute it!
If it is to be roundup, which form?
Where is the cheapest place to get it?
I see that Amazon has the CG at £14.06 per litre but I hear that
agricultural supplies firms sell it in 5 litre bottles.
Any advice appreciated.

Lawrence

farm supplies store - 5 litres conc. (360g/l) ~ £35 -40

abt 1/5 pint per 6 litre sprayer for weeds.... 5 litres lasts us a
long time ;))

Jim K

Come on, someone recommend a gardening group (no use asking me)

In message , newshound
writes
Come on, someone recommend a gardening group (no use asking me)

uk.rec.gardening

Where you will find this topic comes up fairly often.

As for cheapest.

1. look for a generic glyphosate product rather than Roundup, which is
the Monsanto brand name and priced as such.

2. for that sort of area it'd be worth trying an agricultural suppliers.
Though no hurry, as it's to late to be worth while spraying again this
year.

The suggested way I've seen for clearing nettles is to cut them down in
early spring, and then spray the regrowth, though as Dave suggests,
cutting down nettles works well
--
Chris French

"Lawrence" wrote in message
...
This summer I've been trying to get rid of nettles and thistles prior to
planting trees on my 1.5 acre field. I have been using "Roundup" which I
bought as a cheap end of line at a local garden centre (£2.99 for the
usual £10.99 bottles). I now need to stock up on some more or something
equally as good. It must be able to kill nettles and thistles but must be
able to be sprayed safely around trees without harming them. I know there
are some who doubt that roundup biodegrades but I am willing to believe
the manufacturer unless someone comes up with proof positive.
So now the question. In researching cheaper sources, I've come across the
problem that there are a number of different variants of roundup. The CG
form seems to have 120g/litre of glyphosate, the ultimate form 360g/litre
and the brush and shrub(? has 480g/litre but is it that simple? I've also
read that you ought to add ammonium sulphate if you are using hard(ish)
water to dilute it!
If it is to be roundup, which form?
Where is the cheapest place to get it?
I see that Amazon has the CG at £14.06 per litre but I hear that
agricultural supplies firms sell it in 5 litre bottles.
Any advice appreciated.

Lawrence

Generic Glyphosate is the same stuff as Roundup - the patent expired a few
years ago. My local supermarket in France sells it for ?9 a litre. It goes
a long way at 5ml per litre dilution.

In message , Spamlet
writes

"Lawrence" wrote in message
...
This summer I've been trying to get rid of nettles and thistles prior to
planting trees on my 1.5 acre field. I have been using "Roundup" which I
bought as a cheap end of line at a local garden centre (£2.99 for the
usual £10.99 bottles). I now need to stock up on some more or something
equally as good. It must be able to kill nettles and thistles but must be
able to be sprayed safely around trees without harming them. I know there
are some who doubt that roundup biodegrades but I am willing to believe
the manufacturer unless someone comes up with proof positive.
So now the question. In researching cheaper sources, I've come across the
problem that there are a number of different variants of roundup. The CG
form seems to have 120g/litre of glyphosate, the ultimate form 360g/litre
and the brush and shrub(? has 480g/litre but is it that simple? I've also
read that you ought to add ammonium sulphate if you are using hard(ish)
water to dilute it!
If it is to be roundup, which form?
Where is the cheapest place to get it?
I see that Amazon has the CG at £14.06 per litre but I hear that
agricultural supplies firms sell it in 5 litre bottles.
Any advice appreciated.

Lawrence

Borrow some pigs: they soon get rid of everything... but...

Lots of trees in our town have been killed by the council obsession with
killing everything that grows around them - and ringbarking them with
strimmers for good measure. Those that aren't killed outright suffer and
drop their leaves instead, and are then accused of being diseased and so are
chainsawed before they get the chance to recover.

Except for a few trees like yew and rhododendron - which poison just about
everything -, most get along fine with the right things growing beneath
them, and this helps maintain the soil structure, biota, moisture and
microclimate on which they depend.

They will, once big enough.

And my experience - at least with 'shed grade' Roundup -, is that it just
turns weeds a nasty brown colour and then they just grow back from the
roots.

Depends on the weeds, somethings, do need more than one application.



Actually, I would just plant your trees in with the nettles and thistles:
this will hide them from the rabbits and deer to some extent and give them a
chance to get rooted before the top gets browsed off. Remember: the HARD
thing, is STOPPING land reverting to woodland. Large numbers of
conservation volunteers spend most of their time trying to stop woodland
from forming on what they want to keep as grassland. If you just fenced out
your 1.5 acres from deer and rabbits you would soon have a wood.


Yes, and no.

If you are planting trees then just leaving them to battle it out with
the weeds isn't the best course, a significant number will probably lose
the battle.
--
Chris French

On 24/10/10 19:55, Lawrence wrote:
This summer I've been trying to get rid of nettles and thistles prior to
planting trees on my 1.5 acre field. I have been using "Roundup" which I
bought as a cheap end of line at a local garden centre (£2.99 for the
usual £10.99 bottles). I now need to stock up on some more or something
equally as good. It must be able to kill nettles and thistles but must
be able to be sprayed safely around trees without harming them. I know
there are some who doubt that roundup biodegrades but I am willing to
believe the manufacturer unless someone comes up with proof positive.
So now the question. In researching cheaper sources, I've come across
the problem that there are a number of different variants of roundup.
The CG form seems to have 120g/litre of glyphosate, the ultimate form
360g/litre and the brush and shrub(? has 480g/litre but is it that
simple? I've also read that you ought to add ammonium sulphate if you
are using hard(ish) water to dilute it!
If it is to be roundup, which form?
Where is the cheapest place to get it?
I see that Amazon has the CG at £14.06 per litre but I hear that
agricultural supplies firms sell it in 5 litre bottles.
Any advice appreciated.

Lawrence
a petrol lawnmower has turned my nettley garden back to grassland,
the nettles and leavy things give up after being mowed every week for
months,
The grass carries on growing.

I only use chemicals to get rid of the Japanese Knotweed.

[g]

"chris French" wrote in message
...
In message , Spamlet
writes

"Lawrence" wrote in message
...
This summer I've been trying to get rid of nettles and thistles prior to
planting trees on my 1.5 acre field. I have been using "Roundup" which
I
bought as a cheap end of line at a local garden centre (£2.99 for the
usual £10.99 bottles). I now need to stock up on some more or something
equally as good. It must be able to kill nettles and thistles but must
be
able to be sprayed safely around trees without harming them. I know
there
are some who doubt that roundup biodegrades but I am willing to believe
the manufacturer unless someone comes up with proof positive.
So now the question. In researching cheaper sources, I've come across
the
problem that there are a number of different variants of roundup. The
CG
form seems to have 120g/litre of glyphosate, the ultimate form
360g/litre
and the brush and shrub(? has 480g/litre but is it that simple? I've
also
read that you ought to add ammonium sulphate if you are using hard(ish)
water to dilute it!
If it is to be roundup, which form?
Where is the cheapest place to get it?
I see that Amazon has the CG at £14.06 per litre but I hear that
agricultural supplies firms sell it in 5 litre bottles.
Any advice appreciated.

Lawrence

Borrow some pigs: they soon get rid of everything... but...

Lots of trees in our town have been killed by the council obsession with
killing everything that grows around them - and ringbarking them with
strimmers for good measure. Those that aren't killed outright suffer and
drop their leaves instead, and are then accused of being diseased and so
are
chainsawed before they get the chance to recover.

Except for a few trees like yew and rhododendron - which poison just about
everything -, most get along fine with the right things growing beneath
them, and this helps maintain the soil structure, biota, moisture and
microclimate on which they depend.

They will, once big enough.

And my experience - at least with 'shed grade' Roundup -, is that it just
turns weeds a nasty brown colour and then they just grow back from the
roots.

Depends on the weeds, somethings, do need more than one application.



Actually, I would just plant your trees in with the nettles and thistles:
this will hide them from the rabbits and deer to some extent and give them
a
chance to get rooted before the top gets browsed off. Remember: the HARD
thing, is STOPPING land reverting to woodland. Large numbers of
conservation volunteers spend most of their time trying to stop woodland
from forming on what they want to keep as grassland. If you just fenced
out
your 1.5 acres from deer and rabbits you would soon have a wood.


Yes, and no.

If you are planting trees then just leaving them to battle it out with the
weeds isn't the best course, a significant number will probably lose the
battle.
--
Chris French

Yes: that is because planting trees is unnatural. Most of the trees that
blew down in the great storm were planted trees. Better to let them choose
where to grow and let them get on with it, so there is no root disturbance.
The birds will bring in all the seeds from the local area that are most
suited to the conditions. First the trees will grow along the fence line
where the birds perch and crap. In my own garden I planted out local acorns
and other hedgerow species. There were no trees except the ones I found in
the stinging nettle patch later on when they grew taller than the nettles.
Few juicy cotyledons that emerge in bare soil escape being eaten, and
anything planted in bare soil is little more than an invitation and a
target.

There was loads of fruit in my garden this year because I was too ill to get
out and try to 'protect' it. The birds and squirrels left it alone and it
all went to waste.
(And all the things I had 'killed' with fortunes of roundup grew back.)

S

Lawrence wrote:
This summer I've been trying to get rid of nettles and thistles prior to
planting trees on my 1.5 acre field. I have been using "Roundup" which
I bought as a cheap end of line at a local garden centre (£2.99 for the
usual £10.99 bottles). I now need to stock up on some more or something
equally as good. It must be able to kill nettles and thistles but must
be able to be sprayed safely around trees without harming them. I know
there are some who doubt that roundup biodegrades but I am willing to
believe the manufacturer unless someone comes up with proof positive.
It's gone almost as soon as it hits the ground, and it only works on
leaves.

So ots perfect for perrenials and may be used in heroic dses to clobber
brambles.


So now the question. In researching cheaper sources, I've come across
the problem that there are a number of different variants of roundup.
The CG form seems to have 120g/litre of glyphosate, the ultimate form
360g/litre and the brush and shrub(? has 480g/litre but is it that
simple? I've also read that you ought to add ammonium sulphate if you
are using hard(ish) water to dilute it!

never boithered. Water all hard. I use it up to 10x recommended
strength for brambles. 2-3x for ordinary stuff. Knocks em out in days,
not weeks. paint rather than spray as well. Or 'glove of death'



If it is to be roundup, which form?

Any bloody form. Glyphosate is glyphosate. Buy really string off brand
stuff.

Where is the cheapest place to get it?
I see that Amazon has the CG at £14.06 per litre but I hear that
agricultural supplies firms sell it in 5 litre bottles.

agricultural places if you have them.


Any advice appreciated.

Lawrence

chris French wrote:
In message , newshound
writes
Come on, someone recommend a gardening group (no use asking me)

uk.rec.gardening

Where you will find this topic comes up fairly often.

As for cheapest.

1. look for a generic glyphosate product rather than Roundup, which is
the Monsanto brand name and priced as such.

2. for that sort of area it'd be worth trying an agricultural suppliers.
Though no hurry, as it's to late to be worth while spraying again this
year.

The suggested way I've seen for clearing nettles is to cut them down in
early spring, and then spray the regrowth, though as Dave suggests,
cutting down nettles works well

if you mow nettles consistently, they die in a few months.

Spamlet wrote:
"Lawrence" wrote in message
...
This summer I've been trying to get rid of nettles and thistles prior to
planting trees on my 1.5 acre field. I have been using "Roundup" which I
bought as a cheap end of line at a local garden centre (£2.99 for the
usual £10.99 bottles). I now need to stock up on some more or something
equally as good. It must be able to kill nettles and thistles but must be
able to be sprayed safely around trees without harming them. I know there
are some who doubt that roundup biodegrades but I am willing to believe
the manufacturer unless someone comes up with proof positive.
So now the question. In researching cheaper sources, I've come across the
problem that there are a number of different variants of roundup. The CG
form seems to have 120g/litre of glyphosate, the ultimate form 360g/litre
and the brush and shrub(? has 480g/litre but is it that simple? I've also
read that you ought to add ammonium sulphate if you are using hard(ish)
water to dilute it!
If it is to be roundup, which form?
Where is the cheapest place to get it?
I see that Amazon has the CG at £14.06 per litre but I hear that
agricultural supplies firms sell it in 5 litre bottles.
Any advice appreciated.

Lawrence

Borrow some pigs: they soon get rid of everything... but...

Lots of trees in our town have been killed by the council obsession with
killing everything that grows around them - and ringbarking them with
strimmers for good measure. Those that aren't killed outright suffer and
drop their leaves instead, and are then accused of being diseased and so are
chainsawed before they get the chance to recover.

Except for a few trees like yew and rhododendron - which poison just about
everything -, most get along fine with the right things growing beneath
them, and this helps maintain the soil structure, biota, moisture and
microclimate on which they depend.

And my experience - at least with 'shed grade' Roundup -, is that it just
turns weeds a nasty brown colour and then they just grow back from the
roots.

Actually, I would just plant your trees in with the nettles and thistles:
this will hide them from the rabbits and deer to some extent and give them a
chance to get rooted before the top gets browsed off. Remember: the HARD
thing, is STOPPING land reverting to woodland. Large numbers of
conservation volunteers spend most of their time trying to stop woodland
from forming on what they want to keep as grassland. If you just fenced out
your 1.5 acres from deer and rabbits you would soon have a wood.

S


wrong. Trees get severely retarded if they have to compete with weeds
when their root systems are small.

I planted two hornbeam section. One was a new hedge planted in cleared
ground with a bit of fertilizer. 6 ft tall after 3 years. Another
section was rough planted in an existing hedge: 9 years and barely 5ft.

qed

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes

Where is the cheapest place to get it?
I see that Amazon has the CG at £14.06 per litre but I hear that
agricultural supplies firms sell it in 5 litre bottles.

agricultural places if you have them.


Any advice appreciated.
Lawrence

This place seems to have an interesting and varied stock, plus a lot of
spec sheets on their stock. Maybe good for research if nothing else?

http://www.progreen.co.uk/index.php
--
Bill

chris French wrote:
In message , Spamlet
writes

"Lawrence" wrote in message
...
This summer I've been trying to get rid of nettles and thistles prior to
planting trees on my 1.5 acre field. I have been using "Roundup"
which I
bought as a cheap end of line at a local garden centre (£2.99 for the
usual £10.99 bottles). I now need to stock up on some more or something
equally as good. It must be able to kill nettles and thistles but
must be
able to be sprayed safely around trees without harming them. I know
there
are some who doubt that roundup biodegrades but I am willing to believe
the manufacturer unless someone comes up with proof positive.
So now the question. In researching cheaper sources, I've come
across the
problem that there are a number of different variants of roundup.
The CG
form seems to have 120g/litre of glyphosate, the ultimate form
360g/litre
and the brush and shrub(? has 480g/litre but is it that simple? I've
also
read that you ought to add ammonium sulphate if you are using hard(ish)
water to dilute it!
If it is to be roundup, which form?
Where is the cheapest place to get it?
I see that Amazon has the CG at £14.06 per litre but I hear that
agricultural supplies firms sell it in 5 litre bottles.
Any advice appreciated.

Lawrence

Borrow some pigs: they soon get rid of everything... but...

Lots of trees in our town have been killed by the council obsession with
killing everything that grows around them - and ringbarking them with
strimmers for good measure. Those that aren't killed outright suffer and
drop their leaves instead, and are then accused of being diseased and
so are
chainsawed before they get the chance to recover.

Except for a few trees like yew and rhododendron - which poison just
about
everything -, most get along fine with the right things growing beneath
them, and this helps maintain the soil structure, biota, moisture and
microclimate on which they depend.

They will, once big enough.

And my experience - at least with 'shed grade' Roundup -, is that it just
turns weeds a nasty brown colour and then they just grow back from the
roots.

Depends on the weeds, somethings, do need more than one application.


use at higher strength, that's all.

Domestic weedkiller is Elfin Safety strength. Useless.
2-10 times that strength is effective. nettles are easy. Brambles are
not.

Others are in between


Actually, I would just plant your trees in with the nettles and thistles:
this will hide them from the rabbits and deer to some extent and give
them a
chance to get rooted before the top gets browsed off. Remember: the HARD
thing, is STOPPING land reverting to woodland. Large numbers of
conservation volunteers spend most of their time trying to stop woodland
from forming on what they want to keep as grassland. If you just
fenced out
your 1.5 acres from deer and rabbits you would soon have a wood.


Yes, and no.

If you are planting trees then just leaving them to battle it out with
the weeds isn't the best course, a significant number will probably lose
the battle.

yep. Or at least be severely retarded.

Spamlet wrote:
"chris French" wrote in message
...
In message , Spamlet
writes
"Lawrence" wrote in message
...
This summer I've been trying to get rid of nettles and thistles prior to
planting trees on my 1.5 acre field. I have been using "Roundup" which
I
bought as a cheap end of line at a local garden centre (£2.99 for the
usual £10.99 bottles). I now need to stock up on some more or something
equally as good. It must be able to kill nettles and thistles but must
be
able to be sprayed safely around trees without harming them. I know
there
are some who doubt that roundup biodegrades but I am willing to believe
the manufacturer unless someone comes up with proof positive.
So now the question. In researching cheaper sources, I've come across
the
problem that there are a number of different variants of roundup. The
CG
form seems to have 120g/litre of glyphosate, the ultimate form
360g/litre
and the brush and shrub(? has 480g/litre but is it that simple? I've
also
read that you ought to add ammonium sulphate if you are using hard(ish)
water to dilute it!
If it is to be roundup, which form?
Where is the cheapest place to get it?
I see that Amazon has the CG at £14.06 per litre but I hear that
agricultural supplies firms sell it in 5 litre bottles.
Any advice appreciated.

Lawrence
Borrow some pigs: they soon get rid of everything... but...

Lots of trees in our town have been killed by the council obsession with
killing everything that grows around them - and ringbarking them with
strimmers for good measure. Those that aren't killed outright suffer and
drop their leaves instead, and are then accused of being diseased and so
are
chainsawed before they get the chance to recover.

Except for a few trees like yew and rhododendron - which poison just about
everything -, most get along fine with the right things growing beneath
them, and this helps maintain the soil structure, biota, moisture and
microclimate on which they depend.
They will, once big enough.
And my experience - at least with 'shed grade' Roundup -, is that it just
turns weeds a nasty brown colour and then they just grow back from the
roots.
Depends on the weeds, somethings, do need more than one application.


Actually, I would just plant your trees in with the nettles and thistles:
this will hide them from the rabbits and deer to some extent and give them
a
chance to get rooted before the top gets browsed off. Remember: the HARD
thing, is STOPPING land reverting to woodland. Large numbers of
conservation volunteers spend most of their time trying to stop woodland
from forming on what they want to keep as grassland. If you just fenced
out
your 1.5 acres from deer and rabbits you would soon have a wood.

Yes, and no.

If you are planting trees then just leaving them to battle it out with the
weeds isn't the best course, a significant number will probably lose the
battle.
--
Chris French

Yes: that is because planting trees is unnatural. Most of the trees that
blew down in the great storm were planted trees.

more total ********.


Better to let them choose
where to grow and let them get on with it, so there is no root disturbance.
The birds will bring in all the seeds from the local area that are most
suited to the conditions. First the trees will grow along the fence line
where the birds perch and crap.

Total garbage. Birds don't crap acorns, most tree seeds are wind blown.


In my own garden I planted out local acorns
and other hedgerow species. There were no trees except the ones I found in
the stinging nettle patch later on when they grew taller than the nettles.
Few juicy cotyledons that emerge in bare soil escape being eaten, and
anything planted in bare soil is little more than an invitation and a
target.

There was loads of fruit in my garden this year because I was too ill to get
out and try to 'protect' it. The birds and squirrels left it alone and it
all went to waste.
(And all the things I had 'killed' with fortunes of roundup grew back.)


you are pretty useless aren't you?

S

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 24 Oct 2010 19:55:08 +0100, Lawrence wrote:

This summer I've been trying to get rid of nettles and thistles prior to
planting trees on my 1.5 acre field.

Nettles don't like being topped do it two or three times a year for a
couple of years and they'll be gone. Thistles don't come back from
being dug up, provided you get most of the tap root and they are in
full flower but not gone to seed. Shove a fork full depth around the
plant, waggle, lift and pull the plant. Best to do it when it after
it has rained and the soil is soft.

1.5 acres with thistle plants every couple of feet would be a lot of
thistle plants to get rid of and take a day or two.

so spray the *******s with strong medicine.

Best way to clear rough ground is to saw down trees and grub up roots.
That's hard. Then strim everything back then when new growth appears
glyphosate it to kill, or mow to kill perennials. That leaves annuals
and grass and the odd dandelion and daisy.

Then clears where new planting is to go, remove old surface layer and
replace with root free soil and a bit of fish blood and bone, and maybe
a bit of peat so the roots have an easy time of it to settle in.

Here on heavy clay birch, alder, willow, yew ,maple ad oak all take off
straight up. Beech and hornneam and box tend to sulk a year or so before
getting going as does hawthorn. Holly sulks 2-3 years or more. A lot
depends on how good the roots are.

In message , chris French
writes

Actually, I would just plant your trees in with the nettles and thistles:
this will hide them from the rabbits and deer to some extent and give them a
chance to get rooted before the top gets browsed off. Remember: the HARD
thing, is STOPPING land reverting to woodland. Large numbers of
conservation volunteers spend most of their time trying to stop woodland
from forming on what they want to keep as grassland. If you just fenced out
your 1.5 acres from deer and rabbits you would soon have a wood.


Yes, and no.

If you are planting trees then just leaving them to battle it out with
the weeds isn't the best course, a significant number will probably
lose the battle.

One simple trick is to *mulch* the area immediately around your sapling.

You can use a 1m square piece of cheap roofing felt with an X cut in the
middle. Turn up some turf to hold the corners down.

Roundup was designed to kill grasses. Anything else is good fortune.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

On 24 Oct, 19:55, "Lawrence" wrote:
This summer I've been trying to get rid of nettles and thistles prior to
planting trees on my 1.5 acre field. *I have been using "Roundup" which I
bought as a cheap end of line at a local garden centre (£2.99 for the usual
£10.99 bottles). *I now need to stock up on some more or something equally
as good. *It must be able to kill nettles and thistles but must be able to
be sprayed safely around trees without harming them. *I know there are some
who doubt that roundup biodegrades but I am willing to believe the
manufacturer unless someone comes up with proof positive.
So now the question. *In researching cheaper sources, I've come across the
problem that there are a number of different variants of roundup. *The CG
form seems to have 120g/litre of glyphosate, the ultimate form 360g/litre
and the brush and shrub(? has 480g/litre but is it that simple? *I've also
read that you ought to add ammonium sulphate if you are using hard(ish)
water to dilute it!
If it is to be roundup, which form?
Where is the cheapest place to get it?
I see that Amazon has the CG at £14.06 per litre but I hear that
agricultural supplies firms sell it in 5 litre bottles.
Any advice appreciated.

Lawrence

Roundup takes a while to work and is very effective on grass, less so
on other weeds. Don't buy at your supermarket, buy the concentrate at
an agricultural suppliers. Lifetime supply in 5 litre can!
However much more effective is "Pastor". Doesn't effect grass but far
more effective than roundup on stuff like nettles and docks etc. they
droop in a day, useful because you can follow up to get the ones you
missed the next day.
Also from your agricultural supplier.
You have to dilute these concentrates according to what you want to
kill.

On 25 Oct, 01:17, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Lawrence wrote:
This summer I've been trying to get rid of nettles and thistles prior to
planting trees on my 1.5 acre field. I have been using "Roundup" which
I bought as a cheap end of line at a local garden centre (£2.99 for the
usual £10.99 bottles). I now need to stock up on some more or something
equally as good. It must be able to kill nettles and thistles but must
be able to be sprayed safely around trees without harming them. I know
there are some who doubt that roundup biodegrades but I am willing to
believe the manufacturer unless someone comes up with proof positive.

It's gone almost as soon as it hits the ground, and it only works on
leaves.

So ots perfect for perrenials and may be used in heroic dses to clobber
brambles.

So now the question. In researching cheaper sources, I've come across
the problem that there are a number of different variants of roundup.
The CG form seems to have 120g/litre of glyphosate, the ultimate form
360g/litre and the brush and shrub(? has 480g/litre but is it that
simple? I've also read that you ought to add ammonium sulphate if you
are using hard(ish) water to dilute it!

never boithered. Water all hard. I use it up to 10x recommended
strength for brambles. 2-3x for ordinary stuff. Knocks em out in days,
not weeks. paint rather than spray as well. Or 'glove of death'

If it is to be roundup, which form?

Any bloody form. Glyphosate is glyphosate. Buy really string off brand
stuff.

be aware that "strong/heroic" doses tend to "burn" the leaves of the
target and so knacker it's ability to spread the G throughout the
plant - which is precisely what you want it to do......

Jim K

On 24/10/2010 19:55, Lawrence wrote:
This summer I've been trying to get rid of nettles and thistles prior to
planting trees on my 1.5 acre field. I have been using "Roundup" which I
bought as a cheap end of line at a local garden centre (£2.99 for the
usual £10.99 bottles). I now need to stock up on some more or something
equally as good. It must be able to kill nettles and thistles but must
be able to be sprayed safely around trees without harming them. I know
there are some who doubt that roundup biodegrades but I am willing to
believe the manufacturer unless someone comes up with proof positive.
So now the question. In researching cheaper sources, I've come across
the problem that there are a number of different variants of roundup.
The CG form seems to have 120g/litre of glyphosate, the ultimate form
360g/litre and the brush and shrub(? has 480g/litre but is it that
simple? I've also read that you ought to add ammonium sulphate if you
are using hard(ish) water to dilute it!
If it is to be roundup, which form?
Where is the cheapest place to get it?
I see that Amazon has the CG at £14.06 per litre but I hear that
agricultural supplies firms sell it in 5 litre bottles.
Any advice appreciated.

Lawrence

Yep. Bayer glyphosate concentrate. About £11 for what Monsanto charge 40
odd.

Peter Scott

Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , chris French
writes

Actually, I would just plant your trees in with the nettles and
thistles:
this will hide them from the rabbits and deer to some extent and give
them a
chance to get rooted before the top gets browsed off. Remember: the
HARD
thing, is STOPPING land reverting to woodland. Large numbers of
conservation volunteers spend most of their time trying to stop woodland
from forming on what they want to keep as grassland. If you just
fenced out
your 1.5 acres from deer and rabbits you would soon have a wood.


Yes, and no.

If you are planting trees then just leaving them to battle it out with
the weeds isn't the best course, a significant number will probably
lose the battle.

One simple trick is to *mulch* the area immediately around your sapling.

You can use a 1m square piece of cheap roofing felt with an X cut in the
middle. Turn up some turf to hold the corners down.

Roundup was designed to kill grasses. Anything else is good fortune.


I don't think that is so. It kills any plant. There are better things to
kill grasses alone.
regards

On 25 Oct, 10:44, Peter Scott wrote:
On 24/10/2010 19:55, Lawrence wrote:



This summer I've been trying to get rid of nettles and thistles prior to
planting trees on my 1.5 acre field. I have been using "Roundup" which I
bought as a cheap end of line at a local garden centre (£2.99 for the
usual £10.99 bottles). I now need to stock up on some more or something
equally as good. It must be able to kill nettles and thistles but must
be able to be sprayed safely around trees without harming them. I know
there are some who doubt that roundup biodegrades but I am willing to
believe the manufacturer unless someone comes up with proof positive.
So now the question. In researching cheaper sources, I've come across
the problem that there are a number of different variants of roundup.
The CG form seems to have 120g/litre of glyphosate, the ultimate form
360g/litre and the brush and shrub(? has 480g/litre but is it that
simple? I've also read that you ought to add ammonium sulphate if you
are using hard(ish) water to dilute it!
If it is to be roundup, which form?
Where is the cheapest place to get it?
I see that Amazon has the CG at £14.06 per litre but I hear that
agricultural supplies firms sell it in 5 litre bottles.
Any advice appreciated.

Lawrence

Yep. Bayer glyphosate concentrate. About £11 for what Monsanto charge 40
odd.

and probly still too much cos it says Bayer on it - look for generic
(who?) brands at agri. supply places for best value.

Jim K

On 25 Oct, 08:25, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , chris French
writes



Actually, I would just plant your trees in with the nettles and thistles:
this will hide them from the rabbits and deer to some extent and give them a
chance to get rooted before the top gets browsed off. Remember: the HARD
thing, is STOPPING land reverting to woodland. Large numbers of
conservation volunteers spend most of their time trying to stop woodland
from forming on what they want to keep as grassland. If you just fenced out
your 1.5 acres from deer and rabbits you would soon have a wood.

Yes, and no.

If you are planting trees then just leaving them to battle it out with
the weeds isn't the best course, a significant number will probably
lose the battle.

One simple trick is to *mulch* the area immediately around your sapling.

You can use a 1m square piece of cheap roofing felt with an X cut in the
middle. Turn up some turf to hold the corners down.

Roundup was designed to kill grasses. Anything else is good fortune.

mmm think the idea was/is to breed genetically modified crops that the
lucky farmer could buy from monsatno and then spray the lot with
monstano Glyphosate to "just kill the weeds" amongst the crops..

Having said that it will kill anything that uses chlorophyll incl
trees, tree stumps, Jap Knotweed.

Dosage can be tricky as you need to poison the plant but allow it to
move the Glyphosate around the entire plant for a "systemic" kill.
Splashing it on neat etc is just a waste as you kill the plants top
growth before it can move around the plant - so it regrows....

Jim K

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Spamlet"
saying something like:

Most of the trees that
blew down in the great storm were planted trees.

I paid particular attention to this 'cos I was out and about at the
time. Many (probably the majority) were previously inner trees that had
their surrounding shelter trees cut down for development areas/gardens.

Shelter trees on the outskirts of a woodland (even a small one of a
handful of trees) develop much greater and stable root systems than the
ones inside the group. As a result, when a giant blow comes along and
the shelter trees have gone, the inner trees are more prone to being
blown over than the shelter trees ever were.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Jim K saying
something like:

Dosage can be tricky as you need to poison the plant but allow it to
move the Glyphosate around the entire plant for a "systemic" kill.
Splashing it on neat etc is just a waste as you kill the plants top
growth before it can move around the plant - so it regrows....

I had an unexpected result with a generic Roundup.
Sprayed a good dose on some thorny **** and thought it wasn't going to
work at all, as everything else died off but this stuff wasn't even
turning pale.
Came October; suddenly the whole lot died, and never came back the
following three years.

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 10:44:20 +0100, Peter Scott wrote:

Yep. Bayer glyphosate concentrate. About £11 for what Monsanto charge 40
odd.

Peter Scott

There's an alternative product that's biodegradable and 'non-toxic', but
ir's not concentrated so a bit silly for agri. use
http://mistralie.co.uk/catalogue/pro...otally-natural

BTW, that site has quite a few interesting chemicals (not all of them under
'Pure Chemicals' but I've no idea how prices compare.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Spamlet wrote:
"Lawrence" wrote in message
...
This summer I've been trying to get rid of nettles and thistles prior to
planting trees on my 1.5 acre field. I have been using "Roundup" which
I bought as a cheap end of line at a local garden centre (£2.99 for the
usual £10.99 bottles). I now need to stock up on some more or
something equally as good. It must be able to kill nettles and thistles
but must be able to be sprayed safely around trees without harming them.
I know there are some who doubt that roundup biodegrades but I am
willing to believe the manufacturer unless someone comes up with proof
positive.
So now the question. In researching cheaper sources, I've come across
the problem that there are a number of different variants of roundup.
The CG form seems to have 120g/litre of glyphosate, the ultimate form
360g/litre and the brush and shrub(? has 480g/litre but is it that
simple? I've also read that you ought to add ammonium sulphate if you
are using hard(ish) water to dilute it!
If it is to be roundup, which form?
Where is the cheapest place to get it?
I see that Amazon has the CG at £14.06 per litre but I hear that
agricultural supplies firms sell it in 5 litre bottles.
Any advice appreciated.

Lawrence

Borrow some pigs: they soon get rid of everything... but...

Lots of trees in our town have been killed by the council obsession with
killing everything that grows around them - and ringbarking them with
strimmers for good measure. Those that aren't killed outright suffer and
drop their leaves instead, and are then accused of being diseased and so
are chainsawed before they get the chance to recover.

Except for a few trees like yew and rhododendron - which poison just
about everything -, most get along fine with the right things growing
beneath them, and this helps maintain the soil structure, biota, moisture
and microclimate on which they depend.

And my experience - at least with 'shed grade' Roundup -, is that it just
turns weeds a nasty brown colour and then they just grow back from the
roots.

Actually, I would just plant your trees in with the nettles and thistles:
this will hide them from the rabbits and deer to some extent and give
them a chance to get rooted before the top gets browsed off. Remember:
the HARD thing, is STOPPING land reverting to woodland. Large numbers of
conservation volunteers spend most of their time trying to stop woodland
from forming on what they want to keep as grassland. If you just fenced
out your 1.5 acres from deer and rabbits you would soon have a wood.

S


wrong. Trees get severely retarded if they have to compete with weeds when
their root systems are small.

I planted two hornbeam section. One was a new hedge planted in cleared
ground with a bit of fertilizer. 6 ft tall after 3 years. Another section
was rough planted in an existing hedge: 9 years and barely 5ft.

qed

There is no point in arguing with you, but if anyone sensible is following
this, then they should know that fast growth - especially when assisted with
fertilisers - is weak and sappy growth. You can read about this in numerous
publications and of particular relevance are Oliver Rackham's excellent
books on trees, woodland and countryside history and management. But you
will know this anyway from trying to find decent timber in the shops.
Forestry stuff is sappy and soft: old growth stuff is strong and hard
wearing - which is why so many conservation organisations are having to
fight to save old growth forests.

Hornbeam is normally a fairly slow-growing and dense wood which gives out a
lot of energy for its volume. If you simply want a barrier and are not
concerned about the quality of the wood then it is probably fine to use a
bit of fertiliser, but if you want a strong specimen tree, slow growth gives
you more rings per inch and a sturdier tree.

And trees get a lot more severely retarded by grazing than by anything
else - which is why the Caledonian pine forest is suffering, and one of the
reasons they have tried to reintroduce wolves into parts of the US where new
growth never gets the chance without the predators to keep the grazing
animals on the move.

S

In message , Grimly
Curmudgeon writes
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Spamlet"
saying something like:

Most of the trees that
blew down in the great storm were planted trees.

I paid particular attention to this 'cos I was out and about at the
time. Many (probably the majority) were previously inner trees that had
their surrounding shelter trees cut down for development areas/gardens.

Shelter trees on the outskirts of a woodland (even a small one of a
handful of trees) develop much greater and stable root systems than the
ones inside the group. As a result, when a giant blow comes along and
the shelter trees have gone, the inner trees are more prone to being
blown over than the shelter trees ever were.

Even if more planted trees did blow down, that wouldn't mean it was
because they were planted, it's likely that planted trees are growing in
different situations - parks, street trees, gardens. These are open and
unprotected, unlike 'natural' trees, which are more likley to have been
in woodlands copses etc.

(Though,IIRC lots of the trees like the Elms in the middle of Brighton
where I lived at the time lost a lot of their tops rather than blowing
over)
--
Chris French

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember chris French
saying something like:

Even if more planted trees did blow down, that wouldn't mean it was
because they were planted, it's likely that planted trees are growing in
different situations - parks, street trees, gardens. These are open and
unprotected, unlike 'natural' trees, which are more likley to have been
in woodlands copses etc.

Yep. A planted tree that's grown up through several storms develops a
strong root system and it takes a helluva blow to knock it over - mind
you, that was such a blow. Of course, some of the trees knocked down
were getting on a bit and ready to go.

On 25 Oct, 19:44, Tim Streater wrote:

snip

Not quite sure why you're mentioning chlorophyl

erm...because it doesn;t work on things that aren;t green and plant
like - i.e. have chlorophyl in - maybe?

But you're right about the Knotweed. Before I knew what it was, I had a
bed with a knotweed clump in it rotovated. Big mistake. Took a lot of
digging to remove the wheelbarrow load of root, and then about 6 years
application of Roundup whenever a new set of shoots appeared - but it
worked in the end.

if you'd care to google that too, you'll find out what you should have
done to the knotweed ;)

Jim K

On 25 Oct, 23:19, Tim Streater wrote:
In article
,
Jim K wrote:

On 25 Oct, 19:44, Tim Streater wrote:

snip

Not quite sure why you're mentioning chlorophyl

erm...because it doesn;t work on things that aren;t green and plant
like - i.e. have chlorophyl in - maybe?

Coincidental, I'd say. According to wot I read in WikiPedia, glyphosate
interferes with a particular chemical pathway that plants use to
synthesise certain amino acids. Animals use a different pathway which is
why it works on plants and not animals.

So in summary:-

Glyphosate kills plants.
Plants use chlorophyl to grow.

ergo:-
Glyphosate kills things with chlorophyl in them.

simples!

hang on - that's what I said in the 1st place wasn't it???

Jim K

On 26 Oct, 15:05, Tim Streater wrote:
In article
,
Jim K wrote:



On 25 Oct, 23:19, Tim Streater wrote:
In article
,
Jim K wrote:

On 25 Oct, 19:44, Tim Streater wrote:

snip

Not quite sure why you're mentioning chlorophyl

erm...because it doesn;t work on things that aren;t green and plant
like - i.e. have chlorophyl in - maybe?

Coincidental, I'd say. According to wot I read in WikiPedia, glyphosate
interferes with a particular chemical pathway that plants use to
synthesise certain amino acids. Animals use a different pathway which is
why it works on plants and not animals.

So in summary:-

Glyphosate kills plants.
Plants use chlorophyl to grow.

ergo:-
Glyphosate kills things with chlorophyl in them.

simples!

hang on - that's what I said in the 1st place wasn't it???

The chlorophyl has nothing to do with it, that's the point.

in your hair splitting corner maybe

Here's a plant *without* it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotropa_uniflora

a myco-heterotroph - does Glyphosate kill it?

Jim K

On 25 Oct, 13:15, Jim K wrote:
On 25 Oct, 08:25, Tim Lamb wrote:





In message , chris French
writes

Actually, I would just plant your trees in with the nettles and thistles:
this will hide them from the rabbits and deer to some extent and give them a
chance to get rooted before the top gets browsed off. *Remember: the HARD
thing, is STOPPING land reverting to woodland. *Large numbers of
conservation volunteers spend most of their time trying to stop woodland
from forming on what they want to keep as grassland. *If you just fenced out
your 1.5 acres from deer and rabbits you would soon have a wood.

Yes, and no.

If you are planting trees then just leaving them to battle it out with
the weeds isn't the best course, a significant number will probably
lose the battle.

One simple trick is to *mulch* the area immediately around your sapling..

You can use a 1m square piece of cheap roofing felt with an X cut in the
middle. Turn up some turf to hold the corners down.

Roundup was designed to kill grasses. Anything else is good fortune.

mmm think the idea was/is to breed genetically modified crops that the
lucky farmer could buy from monsatno and then spray the lot with
monstano Glyphosate to "just kill the weeds" amongst the crops..

Having said that it will kill anything that uses chlorophyll incl
trees, tree stumps, Jap Knotweed.

Dosage can be tricky as you need to poison the plant but allow it to
move the Glyphosate around the entire plant for a "systemic" kill.
Splashing it on neat etc is just a waste as you kill the plants top
growth before it can move around the plant - so it regrows....

Jim K- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It can be used neat. There are micro sprayers that dipense it in a
very fine mist. Power operated, work at high pressure. Used from
helicopters and crop spraying aircraft too. Saves weight & landings.

On 25 Oct, 19:44, Tim Streater wrote:
In article
,
*Jim K wrote:

mmm think the idea was/is to breed genetically modified crops that the
lucky farmer could buy from monsatno and then spray the lot with
monstano Glyphosate to "just kill the weeds" amongst the crops..

And why not? Reduces costs for everybody.

Having said that it will kill anything that uses chlorophyll incl
trees, tree stumps, Jap Knotweed.

Not quite sure why you're mentioning chlorophyl - glyphosate supposedly
interferes with production of some amino acids, so new protein can't be
made.

But you're right about the Knotweed. Before I knew what it was, I had a
bed with a knotweed clump in it rotovated. Big mistake. Took a lot of
digging to remove the wheelbarrow load of root, and then about 6 years
application of Roundup whenever a new set of shoots appeared - but it
worked in the end.

--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" *-- *Bill of Rights 1689

What you need with knotweed is a sryinge. Cut the stuff off and put
the roundup down the hollow stalk. Neat.

On 26 Oct, 16:14, harry wrote:
On 25 Oct, 13:15, Jim K wrote:



On 25 Oct, 08:25, Tim Lamb wrote:

In message , chris French
writes

Actually, I would just plant your trees in with the nettles and thistles:
this will hide them from the rabbits and deer to some extent and give them a
chance to get rooted before the top gets browsed off. Remember: the HARD
thing, is STOPPING land reverting to woodland. Large numbers of
conservation volunteers spend most of their time trying to stop woodland
from forming on what they want to keep as grassland. If you just fenced out
your 1.5 acres from deer and rabbits you would soon have a wood.

Yes, and no.

If you are planting trees then just leaving them to battle it out with
the weeds isn't the best course, a significant number will probably
lose the battle.

One simple trick is to *mulch* the area immediately around your sapling.

You can use a 1m square piece of cheap roofing felt with an X cut in the
middle. Turn up some turf to hold the corners down.

Roundup was designed to kill grasses. Anything else is good fortune.

mmm think the idea was/is to breed genetically modified crops that the
lucky farmer could buy from monsatno and then spray the lot with
monstano Glyphosate to "just kill the weeds" amongst the crops..

Having said that it will kill anything that uses chlorophyll incl
trees, tree stumps, Jap Knotweed.

Dosage can be tricky as you need to poison the plant but allow it to
move the Glyphosate around the entire plant for a "systemic" kill.
Splashing it on neat etc is just a waste as you kill the plants top
growth before it can move around the plant - so it regrows....

Jim K- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It can be used neat. There are micro sprayers that dipense it in a
very fine mist. Power operated, work at high pressure. Used from
helicopters and crop spraying aircraft too. Saves weight & landings.

mmmm how much would you advise then? pref. applied thru the handy
airborne aerosol method which should be fun to watch ;)

Jim K

On 26 Oct, 16:03, Jim K wrote:
On 26 Oct, 15:05, Tim Streater wrote:





In article
,
*Jim K wrote:

On 25 Oct, 23:19, Tim Streater wrote:
In article
,
*Jim K wrote:

On 25 Oct, 19:44, Tim Streater wrote:

snip

Not quite sure why you're mentioning chlorophyl

erm...because it doesn;t work on things that aren;t green and plant
like - i.e. have chlorophyl in - maybe?

Coincidental, I'd say. According to wot I read in WikiPedia, glyphosate
interferes with a particular chemical pathway that plants use to
synthesise certain amino acids. Animals use a different pathway which is
why it works on plants and not animals.

So in summary:-

Glyphosate kills plants.
Plants use chlorophyl to grow.

ergo:-
Glyphosate kills things with chlorophyl in them.

simples!

hang on - that's what I said in the 1st place wasn't it???

The chlorophyl has nothing to do with it, that's the point.

in your hair splitting corner maybe

Here's a plant *without* it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotropa_uniflora

a myco-heterotroph - does Glyphosate kill it?

Jim K- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Now I'd like to find out what kills mares tails. Roundup seem to have
no effect or anything else I've tried.

On 26 Oct, 16:18, harry wrote:
On 25 Oct, 19:44, Tim Streater wrote:



In article
,
Jim K wrote:

mmm think the idea was/is to breed genetically modified crops that the
lucky farmer could buy from monsatno and then spray the lot with
monstano Glyphosate to "just kill the weeds" amongst the crops..

And why not? Reduces costs for everybody.

Having said that it will kill anything that uses chlorophyll incl
trees, tree stumps, Jap Knotweed.

Not quite sure why you're mentioning chlorophyl - glyphosate supposedly
interferes with production of some amino acids, so new protein can't be
made.

But you're right about the Knotweed. Before I knew what it was, I had a
bed with a knotweed clump in it rotovated. Big mistake. Took a lot of
digging to remove the wheelbarrow load of root, and then about 6 years
application of Roundup whenever a new set of shoots appeared - but it
worked in the end.

--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689

What you need with knotweed is a sryinge. Cut the stuff off and put
the roundup down the hollow stalk. Neat.

ah ....getting warmer ;)

Jim K

harry wrote:
On 26 Oct, 16:03, Jim K wrote:
On 26 Oct, 15:05, Tim Streater wrote:





In article
,
Jim K wrote:
On 25 Oct, 23:19, Tim Streater wrote:
In article
,
Jim K wrote:
On 25 Oct, 19:44, Tim Streater wrote:
snip
Not quite sure why you're mentioning chlorophyl
erm...because it doesn;t work on things that aren;t green and plant
like - i.e. have chlorophyl in - maybe?
Coincidental, I'd say. According to wot I read in WikiPedia, glyphosate
interferes with a particular chemical pathway that plants use to
synthesise certain amino acids. Animals use a different pathway which is
why it works on plants and not animals.
So in summary:-
Glyphosate kills plants.
Plants use chlorophyl to grow.
ergo:-
Glyphosate kills things with chlorophyl in them.
simples!
hang on - that's what I said in the 1st place wasn't it???
The chlorophyl has nothing to do with it, that's the point.
in your hair splitting corner maybe

Here's a plant *without* it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotropa_uniflora
a myco-heterotroph - does Glyphosate kill it?

Jim K- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Now I'd like to find out what kills mares tails. Roundup seem to have
no effect or anything else I've tried.
mowing works