Hi all,

I've searched the group on Google groups and found two relevant
threads:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....7b3362e020eec1

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....72693b3c1ae1ca

In one of them the starters from Tabelek are recommended.

http://www.tabelek.co.uk/product-300...be-starter.asp

Does that recommendation still hold?

I'm after starters that don't either (a) wait an interminable interval
before deigning to start up the lamp or (b) go
blink...blink...blink...blinkety-ahah!

I've been using standard Osram ST111s, and even with a new starter and
a new tube, the behaviour is generally (b).

Personally, I like the light to come on in a reasonably short period
after I've flicked the lightswitch, and not try and give me an
epileptic seizure while doing so.

The alternative is wiring in an electronic hf ballast - is this Part P
covered? If not, any recommendations on that score, and gotchas and
things to avoid?

Thanks,

Sid

On 11 Aug, 13:03, Sidney Endon-Lee wrote:
Hi all,

I've searched the group on Google groups and found two relevant
threads:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk..../thread/6371a7...

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk..../thread/1acd56...

In one of them the starters from Tabelek are recommended.

http://www.tabelek.co.uk/product-300...c-fluorescent-...

Does that recommendation still hold?

I'm after starters that don't either (a) wait an interminable interval
before deigning to start up the lamp or (b) go
blink...blink...blink...blinkety-ahah!

I've been using standard Osram ST111s, and even with a new starter and
a new tube, the behaviour is generally (b).

Personally, I like the light to come on in a reasonably short period
after I've flicked the lightswitch, and not try and give me an
epileptic seizure while doing so.

The alternative is wiring in an electronic hf ballast - is this Part P
covered? If not, any recommendations on that score, and gotchas and
things to avoid?

Thanks,

Sid

Those starters cost money, the light will still hum and be
inefficient.

I thought the same until a couple of weeks ago but it really isn't
difficult to get your hands on and fit an HF electronic ballast. I
used eBay to obtain a Philips 2x58W. Other decent makes are available.
Here is the thread I started:
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....385aa20e517302
If you can use:
a screwdriver to release terminal block screws,
a screwdriver (and maybe pliers to prevent a nut spinning) to remove
the fixings on the old ballast(s),
wire strippers to strip 8-9mm of insulation off for the push-fit
terminals on the new ballast,
a drill to make an extra hole to fit a screw through (electronic
ballasts tend to be longer although the other dimensions are more
compact)

Part P didn't enter my thought processes. It's no different to
changing an entire fitting (which I believe is allowed anyway).
Work methodically, isolate the fitting, don't rush, follow the wiring
diagram on the ballast and double check your work. You'll be fine and
wonder why you didn't do it before.

On 11 Aug, 13:54, Part timer wrote:
On 11 Aug, 13:03, Sidney Endon-Lee wrote:



Hi all,

I've searched the group on Google groups and found two relevant
threads:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk..../thread/6371a7...

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk..../thread/1acd56...

In one of them the starters from Tabelek are recommended.

http://www.tabelek.co.uk/product-300...c-fluorescent-...

Does that recommendation still hold?

I'm after starters that don't either (a) wait an interminable interval
before deigning to start up the lamp or (b) go
blink...blink...blink...blinkety-ahah!

I've been using standard Osram ST111s, and even with a new starter and
a new tube, the behaviour is generally (b).

Personally, I like the light to come on in a reasonably short period
after I've flicked the lightswitch, and not try and give me an
epileptic seizure while doing so.

The alternative is wiring in an electronic hf ballast - is this Part P
covered? If not, any recommendations on that score, and gotchas and
things to avoid?

Thanks,

Sid

Those starters cost money, the light will still hum and be
inefficient.

I thought the same until a couple of weeks ago but it really isn't
difficult to get your hands on and fit an HF electronic ballast. I
used eBay to obtain a Philips 2x58W. Other decent makes are available.
Here is the thread I started:http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk..../thread/7bc550...
If you can use:
a screwdriver to release terminal block screws,
a screwdriver (and maybe pliers to prevent a nut spinning) to remove
the fixings on the old ballast(s),
wire strippers to strip 8-9mm of insulation off for the push-fit
terminals on the new ballast,
a drill to make an extra hole to fit a screw through (electronic
ballasts tend to be longer although the other dimensions are more
compact)

Part P didn't enter my thought processes. It's no different to
changing an entire fitting (which I believe is allowed anyway).
Work methodically, isolate the fitting, don't rush, follow the wiring
diagram on the ballast and double check your work. You'll be fine and
wonder why you didn't do it before.

I changeed the starters in my (at times very) cold shed with something
like this:

http://www.tabelek.co.uk/product-um2...be-starter.asp

They used to flicker and not always start at all in cold weather. I
now have a clean start with no flicker within a second. Not expensive.

Jonathan

On Aug 11, 1:03*pm, Sidney Endon-Lee wrote:
Hi all,

I've searched the group on Google groups and found two relevant
threads:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk..../thread/6371a7...

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk..../thread/1acd56...

In one of them the starters from Tabelek are recommended.

http://www.tabelek.co.uk/product-300...c-fluorescent-...

Does that recommendation still hold?

I'm after starters that don't either (a) wait an interminable interval
before deigning to start up the lamp or (b) go
blink...blink...blink...blinkety-ahah!

I've been using standard Osram ST111s, and even with a new starter and
a new tube, the behaviour is generally (b).

Personally, I like the light to come on in a reasonably short period
after I've flicked the lightswitch, and not try and give me an
epileptic seizure while doing so.

The alternative is wiring in an electronic hf ballast - is this Part P
covered? If not, any recommendations on that score, and gotchas and
things to avoid?

Thanks,

Sid


No such animal. If you want instant starting you need to use a
different type of ballast, one capable of instant starting the tubes.
Such ballasts dont have starters. Tubes dont last so well operated
like that, hence its not common practice.

The next best thing is a starter that waits about 2 seconds then
starts the tube without flicker. (The old thermal starters did a good
job of that, but you cant use them.) There are various ways to achieve
this, but the right electronic starter is a simple option, or if
you've electronic skills a simple RC delayed relay would work.


NT

Tabby wrote:
On Aug 11, 1:03*pm, Sidney Endon-Lee wrote:
Hi all,

I've searched the group on Google groups and found two relevant
threads:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk..../thread/6371a7....

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk..../thread/1acd56....

In one of them the starters from Tabelek are recommended.

http://www.tabelek.co.uk/product-300...c-fluorescent-....

Does that recommendation still hold?

I'm after starters that don't either (a) wait an interminable interval
before deigning to start up the lamp or (b) go
blink...blink...blink...blinkety-ahah!

I've been using standard Osram ST111s, and even with a new starter and
a new tube, the behaviour is generally (b).

Personally, I like the light to come on in a reasonably short period
after I've flicked the lightswitch, and not try and give me an
epileptic seizure while doing so.

The alternative is wiring in an electronic hf ballast - is this Part P
covered? If not, any recommendations on that score, and gotchas and
things to avoid?

Thanks,

Sid


No such animal. If you want instant starting you need to use a
different type of ballast, one capable of instant starting the tubes.
Such ballasts dont have starters. Tubes dont last so well operated
like that, hence its not common practice.

The next best thing is a starter that waits about 2 seconds then
starts the tube without flicker. (The old thermal starters did a good
job of that, but you cant use them.) There are various ways to achieve
this, but the right electronic starter is a simple option, or if
you've electronic skills a simple RC delayed relay would work.


NT

"not common practice". Perhaps not with standard fluorescent lamps,
but with CFLs it appears to be extremely common practice. I have
several GE spiral CFLs that are instant on, and stick CFLs from many
manufacturers that are the same. I've not measured them to see if
'instant' is actually a 0.3s delay, but they reliably come on without
blinking, and if not instant, in a very short time. I'm aware that
CFLs use high frequency ballasts.

With a standard fluorescent, perhaps there are high frequency ballasts
that operate like the CFLs I have?

Or maybe I should just remove the standard fluorescent fitting and put
in some CFLs instead?

Thanks,

Sid

On Aug 12, 2:15*pm, Sidney Endon-Lee wrote:
Tabby wrote:
On Aug 11, 1:03*pm, Sidney Endon-Lee wrote:
Hi all,

I've searched the group on Google groups and found two relevant
threads:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk..../thread/6371a7....

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk..../thread/1acd56....

In one of them the starters from Tabelek are recommended.

http://www.tabelek.co.uk/product-300...c-fluorescent-....

Does that recommendation still hold?

I'm after starters that don't either (a) wait an interminable interval
before deigning to start up the lamp or (b) go
blink...blink...blink...blinkety-ahah!

I've been using standard Osram ST111s, and even with a new starter and
a new tube, the behaviour is generally (b).

Personally, I like the light to come on in a reasonably short period
after I've flicked the lightswitch, and not try and give me an
epileptic seizure while doing so.

The alternative is wiring in an electronic hf ballast - is this Part P
covered? If not, any recommendations on that score, and gotchas and
things to avoid?

Thanks,

Sid

No such animal. If you want instant starting you need to use a
different type of ballast, one capable of instant starting the tubes.
Such ballasts dont have starters. Tubes dont last so well operated
like that, hence its not common practice.

The next best thing is a starter that waits about 2 seconds then
starts the tube without flicker. (The old thermal starters did a good
job of that, but you cant use them.) There are various ways to achieve
this, but the right electronic starter is a simple option, or if
you've electronic skills a simple RC delayed relay would work.

NT

"not common practice". Perhaps not with standard fluorescent lamps,
but with CFLs it appears to be extremely common practice. I have
several GE spiral CFLs that are instant on, and stick CFLs from many
manufacturers that are the same. I've not measured them to see if
'instant' is actually a 0.3s delay, but they reliably come on without
blinking, and if not instant, in a very short time. I'm aware that
CFLs use high frequency ballasts.

With a standard fluorescent, perhaps there are high frequency ballasts
that operate like the CFLs I have?

Or maybe I should just remove the standard fluorescent fitting and put
in some CFLs instead?

Thanks,

Sid

Its an option. Efficacy is a bit over half though. You didnt mention
what sort of power level was invovled.

Dont forget you can run small linear tubes on CFL ballasts too, ie
18/20w.


NT

Tabby wrote:
On Aug 12, 2:15*pm, Sidney Endon-Lee wrote:
Tabby wrote:
On Aug 11, 1:03*pm, Sidney Endon-Lee wrote:
Hi all,

I've searched the group on Google groups and found two relevant
threads:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk..../thread/6371a7...

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk..../thread/1acd56...

In one of them the starters from Tabelek are recommended.

http://www.tabelek.co.uk/product-300...c-fluorescent-...

Does that recommendation still hold?

I'm after starters that don't either (a) wait an interminable interval
before deigning to start up the lamp or (b) go
blink...blink...blink...blinkety-ahah!

I've been using standard Osram ST111s, and even with a new starter and
a new tube, the behaviour is generally (b).

Personally, I like the light to come on in a reasonably short period
after I've flicked the lightswitch, and not try and give me an
epileptic seizure while doing so.

The alternative is wiring in an electronic hf ballast - is this Part P
covered? If not, any recommendations on that score, and gotchas and
things to avoid?

Thanks,

Sid

No such animal. If you want instant starting you need to use a
different type of ballast, one capable of instant starting the tubes.
Such ballasts dont have starters. Tubes dont last so well operated
like that, hence its not common practice.

The next best thing is a starter that waits about 2 seconds then
starts the tube without flicker. (The old thermal starters did a good
job of that, but you cant use them.) There are various ways to achieve
this, but the right electronic starter is a simple option, or if
you've electronic skills a simple RC delayed relay would work.

NT

"not common practice". Perhaps not with standard fluorescent lamps,
but with CFLs it appears to be extremely common practice. I have
several GE spiral CFLs that are instant on, and stick CFLs from many
manufacturers that are the same. I've not measured them to see if
'instant' is actually a 0.3s delay, but they reliably come on without
blinking, and if not instant, in a very short time. I'm aware that
CFLs use high frequency ballasts.

With a standard fluorescent, perhaps there are high frequency ballasts
that operate like the CFLs I have?

Or maybe I should just remove the standard fluorescent fitting and put
in some CFLs instead?

Thanks,

Sid

Its an option. Efficacy is a bit over half though. You didnt mention
what sort of power level was invovled.

Dont forget you can run small linear tubes on CFL ballasts too, ie
18/20w.


NT

Ooh - now that's a thought - the fluorescent fittings in question are
all small linear tubes - in this case 15W (five of 'em, in various
rooms. I guess the previous owner got a job-lot or something). Some
hardware hacking needed, methinks.

Sid

On Aug 12, 7:08*pm, Sidney Endon-Lee wrote:
Tabby wrote:
On Aug 12, 2:15*pm, Sidney Endon-Lee wrote:
Tabby wrote:
On Aug 11, 1:03*pm, Sidney Endon-Lee wrote:
Hi all,

I've searched the group on Google groups and found two relevant
threads:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk..../thread/6371a7...

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk..../thread/1acd56...

In one of them the starters from Tabelek are recommended.

http://www.tabelek.co.uk/product-300...c-fluorescent-...

Does that recommendation still hold?

I'm after starters that don't either (a) wait an interminable interval
before deigning to start up the lamp or (b) go
blink...blink...blink...blinkety-ahah!

I've been using standard Osram ST111s, and even with a new starter and
a new tube, the behaviour is generally (b).

Personally, I like the light to come on in a reasonably short period
after I've flicked the lightswitch, and not try and give me an
epileptic seizure while doing so.

The alternative is wiring in an electronic hf ballast - is this Part P
covered? If not, any recommendations on that score, and gotchas and
things to avoid?

Thanks,

Sid

No such animal. If you want instant starting you need to use a
different type of ballast, one capable of instant starting the tubes.
Such ballasts dont have starters. Tubes dont last so well operated
like that, hence its not common practice.

The next best thing is a starter that waits about 2 seconds then
starts the tube without flicker. (The old thermal starters did a good
job of that, but you cant use them.) There are various ways to achieve
this, but the right electronic starter is a simple option, or if
you've electronic skills a simple RC delayed relay would work.

NT

"not common practice". Perhaps not with standard fluorescent lamps,
but with CFLs it appears to be extremely common practice. I have
several GE spiral CFLs that are instant on, and stick CFLs from many
manufacturers that are the same. I've not measured them to see if
'instant' is actually a 0.3s delay, but they reliably come on without
blinking, and if not instant, in a very short time. I'm aware that
CFLs use high frequency ballasts.

With a standard fluorescent, perhaps there are high frequency ballasts
that operate like the CFLs I have?

Or maybe I should just remove the standard fluorescent fitting and put
in some CFLs instead?

Thanks,

Sid

Its an option. Efficacy is a bit over half though. You didnt mention
what sort of power level was invovled.

Dont forget you can run small linear tubes on CFL ballasts too, ie
18/20w.

NT

Ooh - now that's a thought - the fluorescent fittings in question are
all small linear tubes - in this case 15W (five of 'em, in various
rooms. I guess the previous owner got a job-lot or something). Some
hardware hacking needed, methinks.

Sid


By mounting the cfl ballast further from the heat of the tube, it runs
cooler and lasts.


NT

In article ,
Sidney Endon-Lee writes:
Tabby wrote:

Dont forget you can run small linear tubes on CFL ballasts too, ie
18/20w.


NT
Ooh - now that's a thought - the fluorescent fittings in question are
all small linear tubes - in this case 15W (five of 'em, in various
rooms. I guess the previous owner got a job-lot or something). Some
hardware hacking needed, methinks.

http://www.cucumber.demon.co.uk/lights/diy/

However, nowadays I use ballasts, such as the Philips Matchbox range.

http://www.cucumber.demon.co.uk/lights/diy2/

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
Sidney Endon-Lee writes:
Hi all,

I've searched the group on Google groups and found two relevant
threads:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....7b3362e020eec1

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....72693b3c1ae1ca

In one of them the starters from Tabelek are recommended.

http://www.tabelek.co.uk/product-300...be-starter.asp

Does that recommendation still hold?

I'm after starters that don't either (a) wait an interminable interval
before deigning to start up the lamp or (b) go
blink...blink...blink...blinkety-ahah!

I've been using standard Osram ST111s, and even with a new starter and
a new tube, the behaviour is generally (b).

Personally, I like the light to come on in a reasonably short period
after I've flicked the lightswitch, and not try and give me an
epileptic seizure while doing so.

For conventional ballasts, there are electronic starters.
They are mostly based on a dedicated semiconductor IC, Y1112
which is called a Fluoractor - a dedicated electronic starter.
It has a starting sequence it goes through, the timing of which
is governed by external components. IIRC, there's a preheat phase
where it just heats the tube filaments. Then there's a striking
phase where continuously tries striking the tube by interrupting
the preheat current at peaks of the current to generate back-EMF
to strike the tube. This back-EMF will strike the tube without
the pre-heating -- the pre-heating is just to extend the tube
life. Is is possible to reduce the pre-heat period to almost
nothing, so the tube instart-starts. These are noisy during
starting though, due to the nasty waveform through the ballast
whilst generating the back-EMF striking voltage.
The difficult part is finding a starter which uses a fluoractor
and has a short preheat time. I did have a PulseStarter one,
but the ones I've bought more recently are different models that
have quite a long preheat timer.

I have 3 instant-start 5' fittings in the garage, due to
retrofitting Relco instant start HF ballasts which CPC used to
sell. Unfortunately, Relco later changed the ballast to preheat
whilst keeping the same part number, so that particular one is
no use for instant start anymore, and instant start ballasts
are getting harder to find.

Instant start is most common in the US, but that mostly uses
tubes with single end contacts in conjunction with a high
voltage lampholder interlocked with the supply. Since US has
to transform their mains voltage up to operate anything but the
shortest tubes, transforming it up to voltage levels capable
of instant starting is no big deal and saves on the starter.
Instant starting has never been used much outside the US, and
AFAIK, no one else uses the instant start single end contact
tubes, although ordinary tubes can also be instant-started.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 13 Aug, 12:07, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
In article ,
* * * * Sidney Endon-Lee writes:



Hi all,

I've searched the group on Google groups and found two relevant
threads:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk..../thread/6371a7...

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk..../thread/1acd56...

In one of them the starters from Tabelek are recommended.

http://www.tabelek.co.uk/product-300...c-fluorescent-...

Does that recommendation still hold?

I'm after starters that don't either (a) wait an interminable interval
before deigning to start up the lamp or (b) go
blink...blink...blink...blinkety-ahah!

I've been using standard Osram ST111s, and even with a new starter and
a new tube, the behaviour is generally (b).

Personally, I like the light to come on in a reasonably short period
after I've flicked the lightswitch, and not try and give me an
epileptic seizure while doing so.

For conventional ballasts, there are electronic starters.
They are mostly based on a dedicated semiconductor IC, Y1112
which is called a Fluoractor - a dedicated electronic starter.
It has a starting sequence it goes through, the timing of which
is governed by external components. IIRC, there's a preheat phase
where it just heats the tube filaments. Then there's a striking
phase where continuously tries striking the tube by interrupting
the preheat current at peaks of the current to generate back-EMF
to strike the tube. This back-EMF will strike the tube without
the pre-heating -- the pre-heating is just to extend the tube
life. Is is possible to reduce the pre-heat period to almost
nothing, so the tube instart-starts. These are noisy during
starting though, due to the nasty waveform through the ballast
whilst generating the back-EMF striking voltage.
The difficult part is finding a starter which uses a fluoractor
and has a short preheat time. I did have a PulseStarter one,
but the ones I've bought more recently are different models that
have quite a long preheat timer.

I have 3 instant-start 5' fittings in the garage, due to
retrofitting Relco instant start HF ballasts which CPC used to
sell. Unfortunately, Relco later changed the ballast to preheat
whilst keeping the same part number, so that particular one is
no use for instant start anymore, and instant start ballasts
are getting harder to find.

Instant start is most common in the US, but that mostly uses
tubes with single end contacts in conjunction with a high
voltage lampholder interlocked with the supply. Since US has
to transform their mains voltage up to operate anything but the
shortest tubes, transforming it up to voltage levels capable
of instant starting is no big deal and saves on the starter.
Instant starting has never been used much outside the US, and
AFAIK, no one else uses the instant start single end contact
tubes, although ordinary tubes can also be instant-started.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Thanks for that Andrew.

The Tabelek electronic starter claims a 0.3 second preheat, so I'll
try that first - it's better than a couple of seconds of blinking. If
I'm still dissatisfied, I'll try one of the Philips Lighting Matchbox
ballasts - the Red range claims 0.8 s preheat on the Philips Lighting
website and, depending on the ballast, either a maximum ignition time
of 0.45s or 0.92 s, the Blue claims a maximum ignition time of 0.45
seconds or 0.5 s depending on which bit of the website you read (the
datasheet for the range, or the web pages for individual models), and
doesn't mention preheat: which is all very confusing.

Thank-you for your very interesting reply.

Sid