I'm installing a new bathroom in my house. One of the jobs is to tile the
walls adjacent to the bath, as I'm going to install a shower attachment.

One of the walls seems to be made of thin (8mm or 10mm?) plasterboard. On
that wall, I'll be fixing a shower attachment holder. Is it OK to stick the
tiles directly onto the plasterboard? Or should I face the plasterboard
with say chipboard first, to increase the rigidity and strength?

Also, should I use a special waterproof adhesive and waterproof grout with
the tiles, or is the regular stuff considered OK for shower areas?

The tiles I bought are 300 x 250mm granite effect tiles which are almost
twice as thick as the average small 150mm square wall tiles. So they do
have a lot of rigidity and strength of theor own.

Thanks...

Al

On Jul 21, 5:13*pm, "AL_z" wrote:

I'm installing a new bathroom in my house. One of the jobs is to tile the
walls adjacent to the bath, as I'm going to install a shower attachment.

One of the walls seems to be made of thin (8mm or 10mm?) plasterboard. On
that wall, I'll be fixing a shower attachment holder. Is it OK to stick the
tiles directly onto the plasterboard?

if you dont mind them popping off en masse


Or should I face the plasterboard
with say chipboard first, to increase the rigidity and strength?

Also, should I use a special waterproof adhesive and waterproof grout with
the tiles, or is the regular stuff considered OK for shower areas?

waterproof for sure, and if you just use green chip then adhesive that
can handle flexing. Sounds like the sort of installation I dont like
though.


The tiles I bought are 300 x 250mm granite effect tiles which are almost
twice as thick as the average small 150mm square wall tiles. So they do
have a lot of rigidity and strength of theor own.

Thanks...

Al

even more vulnerable to board flexing then.

With crappy boarding like that it may be lightweight framing as well,
so you might want to remove the PB and sort the thing out properly.


NT

AL_z wrote:
I'm installing a new bathroom in my house. One of the jobs is to tile
the walls adjacent to the bath, as I'm going to install a shower
attachment.

One of the walls seems to be made of thin (8mm or 10mm?)
plasterboard. On that wall, I'll be fixing a shower attachment
holder. Is it OK to stick the tiles directly onto the plasterboard?
Or should I face the plasterboard with say chipboard first, to
increase the rigidity and strength?

Also, should I use a special waterproof adhesive and waterproof grout
with the tiles, or is the regular stuff considered OK for shower
areas?

The tiles I bought are 300 x 250mm granite effect tiles which are
almost twice as thick as the average small 150mm square wall tiles.
So they do have a lot of rigidity and strength of theor own.

Thanks...

Al

Any wall that is likely to have much moisture on it, IE in a sower enclosure
or over a bath, needs to be boarded with aquapanel.
Microscopic holes in the grout allow water to penetrate into plasterboard
which very quickly disintegrate, regardless of which adhesive/grout you use

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

AL_z wrote:
I'm installing a new bathroom in my house. One of the jobs is to tile
the walls adjacent to the bath, as I'm going to install a shower
attachment.

One of the walls seems to be made of thin (8mm or 10mm?)
plasterboard. On that wall, I'll be fixing a shower attachment
holder. Is it OK to stick the tiles directly onto the plasterboard?
Or should I face the plasterboard with say chipboard first, to
increase the rigidity and strength?

Also, should I use a special waterproof adhesive and waterproof grout
with the tiles, or is the regular stuff considered OK for shower
areas?

The tiles I bought are 300 x 250mm granite effect tiles which are
almost twice as thick as the average small 150mm square wall tiles.
So they do have a lot of rigidity and strength of theor own.

Thanks...

Al

Any wall that is likely to have much moisture on it, IE in a sower enclosure
or over a bath, needs to be boarded with aquapanel.
Microscopic holes in the grout allow water to penetrate into plasterboard
which very quickly disintegrate, regardless of which adhesive/grout you use

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

On 21 July, 17:13, "AL_z" wrote:
I'm installing a new bathroom in my house. One of the jobs is to tile the
walls adjacent to the bath, as I'm going to install a shower attachment.

One of the walls seems to be made of thin (8mm or 10mm?) plasterboard. On
that wall, I'll be fixing a shower attachment holder. Is it OK to stick the
tiles directly onto the plasterboard? Or should I face the plasterboard
with say chipboard first, to increase the rigidity and strength?

Also, should I use a special waterproof adhesive and waterproof grout with
the tiles, or is the regular stuff considered OK for shower areas?

The tiles I bought are 300 x 250mm granite effect tiles which are almost
twice as thick as the average small 150mm square wall tiles. So they do
have a lot of rigidity and strength of theor own.

Thanks...

Al

Depends on your showering habits. Years ago, no-one worried about it,
the tiles would be stuck straight on and I remember few problems.
Nowadays there is special plasterboard for damp areas, (the green
stuff). Also special adhesives and grouts too. Depends really how
good a job you want to make of it. The main area of leakage is where
the tiles meet the shower tray, so do a good job round there.
If you have a power shower, or poor area ventilation it may be a good
idea to put the water resistant plasterboard in. Lot of work
otherwise.

harry wrote in
:

On 21 July, 17:13, "AL_z" wrote:
I'm installing a new bathroom in my house. One of the jobs is to tile
the walls adjacent to the bath, as I'm going to install a shower
attachment.

One of the walls seems to be made of thin (8mm or 10mm?)
plasterboard. On that wall, I'll be fixing a shower attachment
holder. Is it OK to stick the tiles directly onto the plasterboard?
Or should I face the plasterboard with say chipboard first, to
increase the rigidity and strength?

Also, should I use a special waterproof adhesive and waterproof grout
with the tiles, or is the regular stuff considered OK for shower
areas?

The tiles I bought are 300 x 250mm granite effect tiles which are
almost twice as thick as the average small 150mm square wall tiles.
So they do have a lot of rigidity and strength of theor own.

Thanks...

Al

Depends on your showering habits. Years ago, no-one worried about it,
the tiles would be stuck straight on and I remember few problems.
Nowadays there is special plasterboard for damp areas, (the green
stuff). Also special adhesives and grouts too. Depends really how
good a job you want to make of it. The main area of leakage is where
the tiles meet the shower tray, so do a good job round there.
If you have a power shower, or poor area ventilation it may be a good
idea to put the water resistant plasterboard in. Lot of work
otherwise.


Thanks to everyone for the replies. After considering the products and
methods suggested, I'm now thinking of using WBP or similar, fixed over the
existing studwork, (a) because I can srew into it (when fixing the shower
head holder and the hinged shower panel. It would also give extra rigidity
to the cheapo studwork. The wall in question is 5ft wide by 7ft tall. Just
to be safe, I am thinking of painting the WBP with soma kind of waterproof
paint, as I gather that WBP ply is not 100% waterproof - especially the
surface ply which I gather isn't primed, as supplied. I have a spare tin of
exterior masonry paint. Would that do? Or should I fork out for a bitumen-
based tanking paint? Will tile adhesive stick to this? Can anyone recommend
a truly waterproof and slightly flexible tile adhesive?

Al.

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:13:53 +0000, AL_z wrote:

I'm installing a new bathroom in my house. One of the jobs is to tile
the walls adjacent to the bath, as I'm going to install a shower
attachment.

One of the walls seems to be made of thin (8mm or 10mm?) plasterboard.
On that wall, I'll be fixing a shower attachment holder. Is it OK to
stick the tiles directly onto the plasterboard? Or should I face the
plasterboard with say chipboard first, to increase the rigidity and
strength?

That doesn't sound very thick, given that it's a shower wall that might
get bumped by elbows; I'd go with the thickest wall you can get in there
(it's preferable to go with one piece; fixing one thin layer to another
won't be as rigid as just going with one thick layer in the first place -
but I appreciate that you might not want to rip the wall down :-)

This side of the pond they do a cement backer-board for tiling onto
(often branded as wonderboard) - I'm not sure what the equivalent is in
the UK. Some moisture will get through the tiles, so it's better not to
use chipboard as the backing - plus the bond between tile and wood isn't
always as strong as tile and cement, and you don't want tiles falling off
in a few years (probably).

The cement stuff's more expensive than chipboard here, but still less
than equivalent thickness of ply.

Also, should I use a special waterproof adhesive and waterproof grout
with the tiles, or is the regular stuff considered OK for shower areas?

Hmm, not sure. You might be OK with regular stuff and some grout/tile
sealer, but personally for a high-moisure area like a bathroom I think
I'd just use the waterproof stuff to be sure.

The tiles I bought are 300 x 250mm granite effect tiles which are almost
twice as thick as the average small 150mm square wall tiles. So they do
have a lot of rigidity and strength of theor own.

I'm not sure it makes much difference; it's still essentially a lever if
put onto a less-than-rigid surface, and any flex at all could weaken the
bond or cause grout lines to fail.

cheers

Jules

AL_z wrote:
harry wrote in
:

On 21 July, 17:13, "AL_z" wrote:
I'm installing a new bathroom in my house. One of the jobs is to tile
the walls adjacent to the bath, as I'm going to install a shower
attachment.

One of the walls seems to be made of thin (8mm or 10mm?)
plasterboard. On that wall, I'll be fixing a shower attachment
holder. Is it OK to stick the tiles directly onto the plasterboard?
Or should I face the plasterboard with say chipboard first, to
increase the rigidity and strength?

Also, should I use a special waterproof adhesive and waterproof grout
with the tiles, or is the regular stuff considered OK for shower
areas?

The tiles I bought are 300 x 250mm granite effect tiles which are
almost twice as thick as the average small 150mm square wall tiles.
So they do have a lot of rigidity and strength of theor own.

Thanks...

Al
Depends on your showering habits. Years ago, no-one worried about it,
the tiles would be stuck straight on and I remember few problems.
Nowadays there is special plasterboard for damp areas, (the green
stuff). Also special adhesives and grouts too. Depends really how
good a job you want to make of it. The main area of leakage is where
the tiles meet the shower tray, so do a good job round there.
If you have a power shower, or poor area ventilation it may be a good
idea to put the water resistant plasterboard in. Lot of work
otherwise.


Thanks to everyone for the replies. After considering the products and
methods suggested, I'm now thinking of using WBP or similar, fixed over the
existing studwork, (a) because I can srew into it (when fixing the shower
head holder and the hinged shower panel. It would also give extra rigidity
to the cheapo studwork. The wall in question is 5ft wide by 7ft tall. Just
to be safe, I am thinking of painting the WBP with soma kind of waterproof
paint, as I gather that WBP ply is not 100% waterproof - especially the
surface ply which I gather isn't primed, as supplied. I have a spare tin of
exterior masonry paint. Would that do? Or should I fork out for a bitumen-
based tanking paint? Will tile adhesive stick to this? Can anyone recommend
a truly waterproof and slightly flexible tile adhesive?

Al.


I wouldn't go overboard on the waterproofing. The tiles/grout are
normally sufficient because the water is running off too fast to allow
penetration. It's the joint with the shower tray that causes problems,
and using silicone instead of tile adhesive for the bottom row is one
solution.

Jules Richardson wrote in
:

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:13:53 +0000, AL_z wrote:

I'm installing a new bathroom in my house. One of the jobs is to tile
the walls adjacent to the bath, as I'm going to install a shower
attachment.

One of the walls seems to be made of thin (8mm or 10mm?)
plasterboard. On that wall, I'll be fixing a shower attachment
holder. Is it OK to stick the tiles directly onto the plasterboard?
Or should I face the plasterboard with say chipboard first, to
increase the rigidity and strength?

That doesn't sound very thick, given that it's a shower wall that
might get bumped by elbows; I'd go with the thickest wall you can get
in there (it's preferable to go with one piece; fixing one thin layer
to another won't be as rigid as just going with one thick layer in the
first place - but I appreciate that you might not want to rip the wall
down :-)

This side of the pond they do a cement backer-board for tiling onto
(often branded as wonderboard)

Thanks - I was looking at 12mm cement board today in our Travis Perkins
store. It's fairly expensive, Agreed, it's probably the most reliable
option as far as staying inflexible and flat, long term, and least likely
to be degraded by dampness. However, I guess it'll be a bit iffy trying to
screw onto it, so I'm thinking of using WBP 18mm ply (exterior grade ply).
Perhaps not quite as reliable long-term, but more screwable-into..

Al

stuart noble wrote in news:8vY1o.9599$FM1.1635
@hurricane:

I wouldn't go overboard on the waterproofing. The tiles/grout are
normally sufficient because the water is running off too fast to allow
penetration. It's the joint with the shower tray that causes problems,
and using silicone instead of tile adhesive for the bottom row is one
solution.

That's an idea. I have some fancy plastic angled strip that fits unter the
bottom row of tiles that nicely seals the gap between the bath and the
tiles. Not sure how to deal with the corner though, as the stuff won't go
round corners! I will figure something out.

Al

On Jul 22, 11:02*pm, "AL_z" wrote:
stuart noble wrote in news:8vY1o.9599$FM1.1635
@hurricane:

I wouldn't go overboard on the waterproofing. The tiles/grout are
normally sufficient because the water is running off too fast to allow
penetration. It's the joint with the shower tray that causes problems,
and using silicone instead of tile adhesive for the bottom row is one
solution.

That's an idea. I have some fancy plastic angled strip that fits unter the
bottom row of tiles that nicely seals the gap between the bath and the
tiles. Not sure how to deal with the corner though, as the stuff won't go
round corners! I will figure something out.

Al

If you mean interior corner, ie around the bath, just cut the strip at
45 degrees.


NT

AL_z wrote:
Jules Richardson wrote in
:

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:13:53 +0000, AL_z wrote:

I'm installing a new bathroom in my house. One of the jobs is to tile
the walls adjacent to the bath, as I'm going to install a shower
attachment.

One of the walls seems to be made of thin (8mm or 10mm?)
plasterboard. On that wall, I'll be fixing a shower attachment
holder. Is it OK to stick the tiles directly onto the plasterboard?
Or should I face the plasterboard with say chipboard first, to
increase the rigidity and strength?
That doesn't sound very thick, given that it's a shower wall that
might get bumped by elbows; I'd go with the thickest wall you can get
in there (it's preferable to go with one piece; fixing one thin layer
to another won't be as rigid as just going with one thick layer in the
first place - but I appreciate that you might not want to rip the wall
down :-)

This side of the pond they do a cement backer-board for tiling onto
(often branded as wonderboard)

Thanks - I was looking at 12mm cement board today in our Travis Perkins
store. It's fairly expensive, Agreed, it's probably the most reliable
option as far as staying inflexible and flat, long term, and least likely
to be degraded by dampness. However, I guess it'll be a bit iffy trying to
screw onto it, so I'm thinking of using WBP 18mm ply (exterior grade ply).
Perhaps not quite as reliable long-term, but more screwable-into..

Al




You can most certainly tile straight onto 12mm/15mm plasterboarrd if its
reasonably well studded. The tiles stiffen it up no end, and its the
standard way for builders to do it.

NO preparation needed with one caveat, If your tiles have places water
can collet and you get grout flex and cracking, you will get water
behind. Not good. My way to tackle this is to use silicone on the BARE
PLASTERBOARD wherever there is a possible point of flexure, where it
meets a basin, bath edge or shower tray, and then tile OVER that. So if
water gets behind the silcone will stop it there.

12mm MDF or even 15mm MDF is superb fior tiling: I use it to box in
anything. Or chipboard, but as with plasterboard these too need to be
thought about to prevent water getting to it. All the above swell enough
to blow tiles off if they get wet. Grouted tiles are more than enough
for splashes, but not for puddles. Use silcione behind tiles if there is
a potential nastuy corner.

This has led to the mistaken assumption that you therefore need
waterproof crap behind tiles. This is bull****. You dont. TILES ARE
WATERPROOF and GROUT IS HIGHLY WATER RESISTANT.You need it if you cant
seal reliably and tile and grout properly. Its amateur bodgery and
muddled thinking.

AL_z wrote:
stuart noble wrote in news:8vY1o.9599$FM1.1635
@hurricane:

I wouldn't go overboard on the waterproofing. The tiles/grout are
normally sufficient because the water is running off too fast to allow
penetration. It's the joint with the shower tray that causes problems,
and using silicone instead of tile adhesive for the bottom row is one
solution.

That's an idea. I have some fancy plastic angled strip that fits unter the
bottom row of tiles that nicely seals the gap between the bath and the
tiles.

No. it doesn't. It traps water UNDER itself and draws it up by capillary
action, and IMHO it looks ****E. And is responsible for people thinking
they need waterproof backing.

Use silicone to seal the units to the plasterboard BEFORE tiling. That
totally avoids the ugly and prone to mould silicone grouting. Just grout
to the bath or shower tray. You may get hairline cracks, but they go
nowhere and because the grout is slightly permeable THEY DRY OUT.

Not sure how to deal with the corner though, as the stuff won't go
round corners! I will figure something out.

Yep, its a total amateurish bodge strip.

Al

On 22 July, 23:02, "AL_z" wrote:
stuart noble wrote in news:8vY1o.9599$FM1.1635
@hurricane:

I wouldn't go overboard on the waterproofing. The tiles/grout are
normally sufficient because the water is running off too fast to allow
penetration. It's the joint with the shower tray that causes problems,
and using silicone instead of tile adhesive for the bottom row is one
solution.

That's an idea. I have some fancy plastic angled strip that fits unter the
bottom row of tiles that nicely seals the gap between the bath and the
tiles. Not sure how to deal with the corner though, as the stuff won't go
round corners! I will figure something out.

Al

You have to mitre it. Good stuff, a lot neater than a fillet of gunge.

harry wrote:
On 22 July, 23:02, "AL_z" wrote:
stuart noble wrote in news:8vY1o.9599$FM1.1635
@hurricane:

I wouldn't go overboard on the waterproofing. The tiles/grout are
normally sufficient because the water is running off too fast to allow
penetration. It's the joint with the shower tray that causes problems,
and using silicone instead of tile adhesive for the bottom row is one
solution.
That's an idea. I have some fancy plastic angled strip that fits unter the
bottom row of tiles that nicely seals the gap between the bath and the
tiles. Not sure how to deal with the corner though, as the stuff won't go
round corners! I will figure something out.

Al

You have to mitre it. Good stuff, a lot neater than a fillet of gunge.

Ghastly stuff. Mould trap, and a lot uglier than a fillet of grout.

On 23 July, 03:25, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
AL_z wrote:
stuart noble wrote in news:8vY1o.9599$FM1.1635
@hurricane:

I wouldn't go overboard on the waterproofing. The tiles/grout are
normally sufficient because the water is running off too fast to allow
penetration. It's the joint with the shower tray that causes problems,
and using silicone instead of tile adhesive for the bottom row is one
solution.

That's an idea. I have some fancy plastic angled strip that fits unter the
bottom row of tiles that nicely seals the gap between the bath and the
tiles.

No. it doesn't. It traps water UNDER itself and draws it up by capillary
action,

snip

so when you seal your bath to the untiled wall with silicone and then
attempt to stick tiles to the silicone (which won;t stick to the
silicone of course) - what stops water creeping up behind your bottom
tile row by the same capillary action, soaking the pboard and ending
up with the same net result?

Cheers
Jim K

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
harry wrote:
On 22 July, 23:02, "AL_z" wrote:
stuart noble wrote in
news:8vY1o.9599$FM1.1635
@hurricane:

I wouldn't go overboard on the waterproofing. The tiles/grout are
normally sufficient because the water is running off too fast to allow
penetration. It's the joint with the shower tray that causes problems,
and using silicone instead of tile adhesive for the bottom row is one
solution.
That's an idea. I have some fancy plastic angled strip that fits
unter the
bottom row of tiles that nicely seals the gap between the bath and the
tiles. Not sure how to deal with the corner though, as the stuff
won't go
round corners! I will figure something out.

Al

You have to mitre it. Good stuff, a lot neater than a fillet of gunge.

Ghastly stuff. Mould trap, and a lot uglier than a fillet of grout.

Maybe you're thinking of the retro fit stuff. The internal cove trim
that goes behind the tiles is unobtrusive.

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 21:57:47 +0000, AL_z wrote:
This side of the pond they do a cement backer-board for tiling onto
(often branded as wonderboard)

Thanks - I was looking at 12mm cement board today in our Travis Perkins
store. It's fairly expensive, Agreed, it's probably the most reliable
option as far as staying inflexible and flat, long term, and least
likely to be degraded by dampness. However, I guess it'll be a bit iffy
trying to screw onto it, so I'm thinking of using WBP 18mm ply (exterior
grade ply). Perhaps not quite as reliable long-term, but more
screwable-into..

You can get special screws for attaching to the sub-surface (it still
needs bonding too, but you use screws as well to keep it all rigid). The
screws are self-starters, but they also have ridges on the underside of
the screw head so that they bed into the cement, rather than sticking out
slightly proud as a normal screw would (which would make tiling over them
harder). A box of 100 over here works out to about 4 quid (and I think I
paid around the equivalent of 12 quid for 4x8' 1/4" cement board sheets).

As for screwing things on later, once the tiling's done, a regular drill
will drill a pilot hole through the cement board easily; far easier than
drilling through tile. It's sturdy stuff, but it drills nicely (and cuts
pretty easily enough with a stanley knife - needs about three heavy
scores with a good blade, then it just snaps right along the scored line)

I'm not sure you'd need to go with 12mm; whatever 1/4" works out to in mm
will probably do, so long as you're retaining the plasterboard wall
beneath (1/2" cement board is significantly more expensive than 1/4" over
here).

cheers

Jules

Jules Richardson wrote:
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 21:57:47 +0000, AL_z wrote:
This side of the pond they do a cement backer-board for tiling onto
(often branded as wonderboard)
Thanks - I was looking at 12mm cement board today in our Travis Perkins
store. It's fairly expensive, Agreed, it's probably the most reliable
option as far as staying inflexible and flat, long term, and least
likely to be degraded by dampness. However, I guess it'll be a bit iffy
trying to screw onto it, so I'm thinking of using WBP 18mm ply (exterior
grade ply). Perhaps not quite as reliable long-term, but more
screwable-into..

You can get special screws for attaching to the sub-surface (it still
needs bonding too, but you use screws as well to keep it all rigid). The
screws are self-starters, but they also have ridges on the underside of
the screw head so that they bed into the cement, rather than sticking out
slightly proud as a normal screw would (which would make tiling over them
harder). A box of 100 over here works out to about 4 quid (and I think I
paid around the equivalent of 12 quid for 4x8' 1/4" cement board sheets).

As for screwing things on later, once the tiling's done, a regular drill
will drill a pilot hole through the cement board easily; far easier than
drilling through tile. It's sturdy stuff, but it drills nicely (and cuts
pretty easily enough with a stanley knife - needs about three heavy
scores with a good blade, then it just snaps right along the scored line)

I'm not sure you'd need to go with 12mm; whatever 1/4" works out to in mm
will probably do, so long as you're retaining the plasterboard wall
beneath (1/2" cement board is significantly more expensive than 1/4" over
here).

cheers

Jules
if you must go with cement board, it takes rawlplugs etc very well
indeed. FAR better than plaster board. But *tiled* plasterboard itself
works very well for light duty stuff, like e.g. a soap dish, mirror,
cabinet or toilet roll holder. In essence you attach to the TILES and
the tile cement spreads the load to what's behind it,..