Hi,

We have a close-coupled toilet that IIRC came from Screwfix. It does
not use the "traditional" close-coupling kit, i.e. there is no metal
bracket. Instead the cistern sits on top of the pan and there are two
holes, one either side, drilled through the cistern and through the
pan, and through these are two nylon bolts with a small rubber washer
on each. There is the usual big doughnut on the flush outlet.

I did ask BES if they stocked these just in case I ever needed spares
and they had not heard of them. As you can imagine, I've gone and lost
one. Before I phone SF tomorrow, has anyone else seen these before and
do you know what they are called and where I can buy them from?

I would imagine any old nylon bolt would do, since it is submerged
metal would rust. I would however need to find some suitable washers.

Has anyone had to look for these before?

TIA

Fred wrote:
Hi,

We have a close-coupled toilet that IIRC came from Screwfix. It does
not use the "traditional" close-coupling kit, i.e. there is no metal
bracket. Instead the cistern sits on top of the pan and there are two
holes, one either side, drilled through the cistern and through the
pan, and through these are two nylon bolts with a small rubber washer
on each. There is the usual big doughnut on the flush outlet.

I did ask BES if they stocked these just in case I ever needed spares
and they had not heard of them. As you can imagine, I've gone and lost
one. Before I phone SF tomorrow, has anyone else seen these before and
do you know what they are called and where I can buy them from?

I would imagine any old nylon bolt would do, since it is submerged
metal would rust. I would however need to find some suitable washers.

Has anyone had to look for these before?

TIA

A decent plumbers merchant would be my first port of call. They'll
probably be part of some donut replacement kit though.

Fred wrote:
Hi,

We have a close-coupled toilet that IIRC came from Screwfix. It does
not use the "traditional" close-coupling kit, i.e. there is no metal
bracket. Instead the cistern sits on top of the pan and there are two
holes, one either side, drilled through the cistern and through the
pan, and through these are two nylon bolts with a small rubber washer
on each. There is the usual big doughnut on the flush outlet.

It makes you wonder who designs this stuff. " I know, instead of using that
perfectly good idea thats been around for ages, lets drill holes in the
botton of the 20+ litre water cistern".

I did ask BES if they stocked these just in case I ever needed spares
and they had not heard of them. As you can imagine, I've gone and lost
one. Before I phone SF tomorrow, has anyone else seen these before and
do you know what they are called and where I can buy them from?

I would imagine any old nylon bolt would do, since it is submerged
metal would rust. I would however need to find some suitable washers.

Most of the ones I've seen have used stainless steel bolts. IIRC the
washers are cone shaped?

Proper plumbers merchant might help.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk




Has anyone had to look for these before?

TIA

On Sun, 16 May 2010 17:21:44 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Proper plumbers merchant might help.

Yes, I was thinking of going to a few tomorrow, taking the remaining
bolt with me. I just wondered if there was any mail order supplier to
save me the time and petrol. I always though BES were a "proper"
merchant but they didn't have them; OTOH it's not the "proper" part
for the job, is it?

Is PTS a proper merchant? That's the nearest I have, I think.

Most of the ones I've seen have used stainless steel bolts

But wouldn't even that rust if constantly submerged?

" I know, instead of using that perfectly good idea thats been
around for ages, lets drill holes in the botton of the 20+ litre water cistern".

I quite agree. If they are not tight enough, it will leak. A silly way
of doing it imho but presumably cheaper.

Whilst I've got the cistern off, is there a fast filling valve? This
has a torbeck at the moment. Very quiet but also very slow. Isn't a
flush 6 litres on a new loo and 9L on an old one? For such a small
volume, why does it take so long to fill?

TIA

On Sun, 16 May 2010 19:01:11 +0100, Fred wrote:

Whilst I've got the cistern off, is there a fast filling valve? This
has a torbeck at the moment. Very quiet but also very slow.

Is there an incorrect restrictor fitted? The design of a torbeck is
such that it's almost an "open pipe" when open, capable of filling
very fast but will shut off with a bang...

There are two restrictors supplied with a new valve, a HP (lots of
fins IIRC) and and LP (not so many fins) but you can use a torbeck
without a restrictor if your supply is gravity from a tank on the
floor above say.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Fred wrote in
:

On Sun, 16 May 2010 17:21:44 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Proper plumbers merchant might help.

Yes, I was thinking of going to a few tomorrow, taking the remaining
bolt with me. I just wondered if there was any mail order supplier to
save me the time and petrol. I always though BES were a "proper"
merchant but they didn't have them; OTOH it's not the "proper" part
for the job, is it?

Is PTS a proper merchant? That's the nearest I have, I think.



Whilst I've got the cistern off, is there a fast filling valve? This
has a torbeck at the moment. Very quiet but also very slow. Isn't a
flush 6 litres on a new loo and 9L on an old one? For such a small
volume, why does it take so long to fill?

TIA


There is probably a flow resrictor in the bottom of the inlet.

This is usually left in place when feeding with high mains pressure.

It's like a spiral thing which you can pull out with a pair of pliers.

It may have even got blocked with crud.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 16 May 2010 19:01:11 +0100, Fred wrote:

Whilst I've got the cistern off, is there a fast filling valve? This
has a torbeck at the moment. Very quiet but also very slow.

Is there an incorrect restrictor fitted? The design of a torbeck is
such that it's almost an "open pipe" when open, capable of filling
very fast but will shut off with a bang...

There are two restrictors supplied with a new valve, a HP (lots of
fins IIRC) and and LP (not so many fins) but you can use a torbeck
without a restrictor if your supply is gravity from a tank on the
floor above say.

Some have a single filter/restrictor and the destructions tell you to cut it
to various lengths depending on your water pressure - not that many actually
know what their water pressure is.

I use trial & error :-)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Sun, 16 May 2010 19:23:20 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

There are two restrictors supplied with a new valve, a HP (lots of
fins IIRC) and and LP (not so many fins) but you can use a torbeck
without a restrictor if your supply is gravity from a tank on the
floor above say.

Thanks. What are the definitions of high and low pressure? Is mains
always considered high pressure and gravity-fed is low pressure or
isn't it as simple as that? Our pressure should be 3 bars; there is a
prv to stop it going higher than that. Would the pressure on the first
floor be lower than that due to it having to fit gravity to get there?

This is the factory fitted valve, and I don't remember seeing any
spare parts or instructions or if there were, I expect they are long
gone. I shall see if I can remove whatever is in situ, otherwise I
guess I'll have to buy a new valve to ensure I get all the parts.

Thanks again.

On Sun, 16 May 2010 17:21:44 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Most of the ones I've seen have used stainless steel bolts. IIRC the
washers are cone shaped?

These plastic bolts are about 1cm wide and about 6.5cm long. The
washer is about 2.5cm wide but has a lip on the inside edge so it is
almost like a top hat washer. SF say their previous supplier is no
longer trading but their new one, PJH group, didn't want to know
because they didn't fulfill the order. The bolts are almost like those
used to hold a toilet seat, so may be I could use some of those, if I
could find a suitable washer.

On 16 May, 17:21, "The Medway Handyman" davidl...@no-spam-
blueyonder.co.uk wrote:

It makes you wonder who designs this stuff. *" I know, instead of using that
perfectly good idea thats been around for ages, lets drill holes in the
botton of the 20+ litre water cistern".

That's, "20+ litre water cistern with automatic refill"

On Sun, 16 May 2010 17:21:44 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Most of the ones I've seen have used stainless steel bolts. IIRC the
washers are cone shaped?

I got out the yellow pages and found there were half a dozen plumbers
merchants in town, so spent the afternoon visiting them. In the past,
I have read posts here, normally directed at Doctor D, criticising the
staff at plumbers merchants. Having met a few who were uninterested
and unhelpful, I can see why people have said what they have said!

I'm sorry, I misunderstood what TMH was telling me. I thought the
quote about metal bolts referred to the "proper" way of coupling,
using this:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/17405/...e-Coupling-Kit

I went to Grahams and they sold metal bolts with rubber cones that go
through the bottom of the cistern; I realise now that that is what TMH
meant. Sorry for the confusion.

Grahams told me that these were fitted to their £300 toilets. £300 for
a toilet! I'm surprised though, I would have thought that being
constantly submerged in oxygenated water would be a recipe for rust.
Would it help to coat them with something?

Another merchant suggested that steel would rust and I should source a
brass bolt: do you know of any sources for a 10M x 60mm brass bolt?

I have bought the pack from Grahams for the time being. It had four
plastic washers, two plastic nuts and two metal nuts. Do you use one
washer either side of the cistern? IE One in the bottom of the cistern
above the cone and then one underneath the pan above the nut? I have
used the plastic nuts; what are the metal nuts for? Do you need to fit
those beneath the plastic ones? Or is this a one pack fits all and you
choose the bits you need from it according to your toilet?

I had a look at the display loos in B&Q. All the unbranded ones use
the through the cistern method, which is a PIA when you remove the
cistern because you have to remove the "dead water" first. The
Armitage Shanks ones all had "intact" cisterns with fixings below.

On Sun, 16 May 2010 20:10:37 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

not that many actually know what their water pressure is.

I see you can buy a pressure gauge for about £11 that screws onto a
washing machine tap but I want to know the pressure upstairs at the
toilet and not downstairs at the washing machine. I think it would be
too much hassle to fit and then remove a 3/4" adaptor to the cistern
feed to connect the gauge and the gauge would probably never get used
again, so I can see why the trial and error approach is simpler.

On Fri, 21 May 2010 08:11:54 +0100, Fred wrote:

I see you can buy a pressure gauge for about £11 that screws onto a
washing machine tap but I want to know the pressure upstairs at the
toilet and not downstairs at the washing machine.

Do the maths based on the height difference and density of water.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Fri, 21 May 2010 09:48:30 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

Do the maths based on the height difference and density of water.

Whoosh.

I'm off to ask google!

Fred wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2010 09:48:30 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

Do the maths based on the height difference and density of water.

Whoosh.
I'm off to ask google!

It's approximately 0.1 bar per metre of height (10.2m = 1 bar).

This is why water barometers were never very popular - they need to be
about 11m tall!

Mike

On Sun, 23 May 2010 06:58:28 -0500, Mike Humphrey
wrote:

It's approximately 0.1 bar per metre of height (10.2m = 1 bar).

So upstairs should only be 0.24 bar lower, which doesn't sound enough
to be responsible for the extra long fill.