Good evening to all,

my mum's oil fired boiler needs renewing. She is elderly and registered
blind. I live 4 hours travel away.
Gas is not available where she lives.
I will be paying the costs for the new installation and thus would like to
be kept informed.
Existing 15yo boiler is 50K btu and, frankly, on its last legs.
A locally recommended heating engineer has been invited to quote. I find his
statements bewildering and he refuses to speak with me.
Please excuse me, this may be long, but I (no spring chicken) am struggling
to understand:

15.02.2010
"The non condensing boiler made by Grant is a 50/70 which is big enough to
do your mother's properties at XXXX which is quite lucky because they only
make a 50/70 at present in non condensing as they are not so popular any
more and thats why they only make them to order. To remove the existing oil
boiler and install a new Grant 50/70 non condensing with a flue connection
from the top to the existing flue, a Megaclean, copper tube, fittings,
replace thermostatic radiator valves as your mother said that some of them
do not work properly, refix some of the plumbing pipework that goes to
certain radiators that have broken away from their existing fittings..
Refill adding a full treatment, commission. This would be for the sum of
£xxxx.xx plus V.A.T. The reason I havent quoted for a new flue is because
after the boiler has been removed we would need to take the top of the
existing flue and have a good look at it. If it is a case we need to refix
it and brush it clean then this can be done under the same price as above.
The SW double insulation s/steel flue which is similar to that at present is
very expensive and if it has to be replaced you would be looking around
£xxx.xx plus V.A.T.
It takes approx 4 weeks to make the boiler and then it gets transported down
here so you are looking approx 5 weeks. If you are happy with the above
quote we require a letter of confirmation that you accept the quote but if
you could let me know by email then I will get it ordered so that we can get
your mother sorted due to our workload is extensive."

15.02.2010
"Answers to questions. Yes the boiler is big enough and you want it
to work just under full volume i.e. 65,000 btus, that is why we went round
with your mother so that we could measure each radiator. Bigger boiler will
keep recycling costing more oil, more wear and tear on boiler.
Megaclean. We fit them on every boiler installation we do they are
absolutely top end, weather its oil, gas or LPG. It helps keep the system
running clean, I don't know where you got your information from but that is
total crap, ring British Gas for their opinion!
Full treatment means we flush the system, guess what? We use a large
Megaclean flushing system and then we back fill adding a full Sentinal
treatment.
I do apologise for calling it SW flue as that is its correct name but
it is the same flue as is there at present but as I said it is expensive
thats why we were trying to save a bit of money if it passes perhaps I
should not have thought of the customer!
All our work is ALWAYS done correct to the Regulations and registered
with Oftec for Building Regulations Certificate, I really don't know what
kind of **** you turn out!
We only supply appliances we don't make them, if they say a time
period that is all I can go on and I know your mother is elderly but we do a
vast amount of work for people who are elderly, but unfortunately there is
times when they have just got to hang in there.
As for our service and maintenance, locally its known as second to
none as well as our after sales service!
When xxxx called me his wife was putting the casing back on your
mother's boiler because the 1st man they used when the boiler was giving
trouble didn't bother to turn up, he was good wasn't he? The 2nd man he
turned up buggered about, left off all the casing, said you need a new
boiler, I will come back sometime and see if I can get it running, never
seen him again! Mum does need her creature comforts, I met your brother he
was desperate to find somebody who was relieable, I said I can get it
running but only use it for small periods, not all day, we must change this
appliance, if you push it too hard it could break down, keep a tight eye on
it.
All our work meets all Regulations, our service and maintenace, we
even repair boilers late into the evening, thats why I was well recommended
from xxxx because of my reputation. All I will say is you have got a lovely
mother, you can't have everything!
Now I would suggest you start ringing now throw your hook."

20.02.2010.
"I appreciate that your mother has already spoken to you by now but
yesterday we changed direction due to the local authorities and Grant moving
the goal posts. The authorities want at least 10 days before meeting and
completing my application and Grant told me it would be 3/4 weeks to make
the boiler, they now inform me it could be 6/7 weeks so I waved goodbye with
a local gesture, made a couple of phone calls and contacted your mother and
explained the situation, she is now going to have a condensing boiler, a
full up-date system, new flue, without too much upset. She was hightly
delighted, we have asked 2 of our customers if they would accept a delay on
their work, no problem there, so we will start work at your mother's approx
2 or 3rd March. The above work will be done within the same price structure
as the 2 quoted prices you have already been sent on behalf of your mother.
Any other information I will pass on to your mother."

20.02.2010.
"The Planning Control Officer is an office that we go to if you
are going to fit a standard efficiency boiler and it works on a points
system, as you tick the boxes on my form if you don't go over a thousand
points the installation can be installed. In early 2006 when I did a
standard installation I had an appointment with the office, showed them my
form, told them all about the premises, discussed it in full and had
permission, 20 mins max. I returned with the same idea and its all changed.
Now I have to write an application form in for an appointment, then we have
to meet on site, then we discuss it on site then we pass it, all this takes
approx and I do say that loosely 10 days! Plus a fee so we couldn't order
the boiler until after that period and then we got Grants time, out of the
question or I said words very similar. This is a lady that needs urgent
attention, you just as well talk to the wall! Thats why I rang your mother
and explained we will go for the new system, it will be kept within the
quote."

The above is verbatim except for some personal details.
I hope it gives some idea of the dilemma I am in, and my thanks
in advance for any sensible replies or advice.

Nick.

Nick wrote:
Good evening to all,

my mum's oil fired boiler needs renewing. She is elderly and registered
blind. I live 4 hours travel away.
Gas is not available where she lives.
I will be paying the costs for the new installation and thus would like to
be kept informed.
Existing 15yo boiler is 50K btu and, frankly, on its last legs.
A locally recommended heating engineer has been invited to quote. I find his
statements bewildering and he refuses to speak with me.
Please excuse me, this may be long, but I (no spring chicken) am struggling
to understand:


It all sounds reasonable frankly. Planning office is not involved, but
building control is. Which sounds like what he is talking about. No
'material alteration' to a property can be done without bringing the bit
altered up to specs. He is right about not oversizing the boiler too.

The key thing is whether he can do the job, and what the price is.
Sounds like 3-4k total if he is going to do what he says.

Remember every hour he spends writing a letter is 30-60 quid he isn't
making on doing actual work.

Not sure if he is getting a government grant..that may mean jumping
through some extra hoops.

Frankly every time I have been near a government grant, the cost of hoop
jumping exceeded the grant value...

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 20:39:21 -0000, "Nick"
wrote:

Good evening to all,

my mum's oil fired boiler needs renewing. She is elderly and registered
blind. I live 4 hours travel away.
Gas is not available where she lives.
I will be paying the costs for the new installation and thus would like to
be kept informed.
Existing 15yo boiler is 50K btu and, frankly, on its last legs.
A locally recommended heating engineer has been invited to quote. I find his
statements bewildering and he refuses to speak with me.
Please excuse me, this may be long, but I (no spring chicken) am struggling
to understand:

Long Post Snipped


Is all the bit you wrote with dates from letters the fitter sent you
or transcript of phone calls . as there are parts that totally confuse
me ..Thought you said he refused to speak to you ? If that's the
case I'd be inclined to go somewhere else

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 20:39:21 -0000, "Nick"
wrote:

"The Planning Control Officer is an office that we go to if you
are going to fit a standard efficiency boiler and it works on a points
system, as you tick the boxes on my form if you don't go over a thousand
points the installation can be installed.

He is talking about the recent changes in Part L (I think) of the
Building Regulations which have a minimum efficiency requirement for
central heating boilers.

Non-condensing boilers cannot meet this requirement so effectively
cannot be used in new installations or as replacements in old.
However, they can still be approved on a case by case basis for
replacement installations where a condensing boiler would be
impractical. The decision is made based upon a "point score" system
which is what he is referring to here.

In message , Huge
wrote
On 2010-02-20, Nick wrote:

A locally recommended heating engineer has been invited to quote. I find his
statements bewildering and he refuses to speak with me.

Sack him and find one who understands who the customer is.


Reading between the lines, there are times when it's better not to take
on a job.

--
Alan
news2009 {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 20 Feb, 20:39, "Nick" wrote:
Good evening to all,

my mum's oil fired boiler needs renewing. She is elderly and registered
blind. I live 4 hours travel away.
Gas is not available where she lives.
I will be paying the costs for the new installation and thus would like to
be kept informed.
Existing 15yo boiler is 50K btu and, frankly, on its last legs.

SNIP

First of all IS the boiler on its last legs or would a competent
service engineer bring it up to original standard (subject to cosmetic
finish)
At 15 years it could be good for a lot more years or it could need
replacing tomorrow.
Grant build the boiler (box full of water) and fit a standard burner
to it. If the boiler itself is sound I would be inclined to stick with
it for the time being. IF it is showing signs of leakage then its in
need of replacement.
What model of burner is fitted to it? If you have a Riello it will be
entirely repairable for some time to come. Other makes may be a
different story but S/H burners can be obtained cheaply by anyone in
the trade who has replaced boilers in the past.
Grant used steel plate bafles in some of their models. Its not rocket
science to have replacements cut locally if these are heat damaged.
Maybe you can give more info about what on its last legs really means?

On 21 Feb, 11:37, cynic wrote:
On 20 Feb, 20:39, "Nick" wrote:

Good evening to all,

my mum's oil fired boiler needs renewing. She is elderly and registered
blind. I live 4 hours travel away.
Gas is not available where she lives.
I will be paying the costs for the new installation and thus would like to
be kept informed.
Existing 15yo boiler is 50K btu and, frankly, on its last legs.

SNIP

First of all IS the boiler on its last legs or would a competent
service engineer bring it up to original standard (subject to cosmetic
finish)
At 15 years it could be good for a lot more years or it could need
replacing tomorrow.
Grant build the boiler (box full of water) and fit a standard burner
to it. If the boiler itself is sound I would be inclined to stick with
it for the time being. IF it is showing signs of leakage then its in
need of replacement.
What model of burner is fitted to it? If you have a Riello it will be
entirely repairable for some time to come. Other makes may be a
different story but S/H burners can be obtained cheaply by anyone in
the trade who has replaced boilers in the past.
Grant used steel plate bafles in some of their models. Its not rocket
science to have replacements cut locally if these are heat damaged.
Maybe you can give more info about what on its last legs really means?

I would back up what Cynic has just said. I have a well over 15yr old
oil boiler and while some of it has minor cosmetic deterioration, it
is *working* fine and I do have good oil-burner-aware heating
technician who looks after it. The flame box is the only thing that
has given bother and it looks simple enough to be rebuilt if needs be.

I am glad of the comment about Riello burners !

Rob

[Default] On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 20:39:21 -0000, a certain chimpanzee,
"Nick" , randomly hit the keyboard and
wrote:

my mum's oil fired boiler needs renewing.

A locally recommended heating engineer has been invited to quote. I find his
statements bewildering and he refuses to speak with me.

All our work is ALWAYS done correct to the Regulations and registered
with Oftec for Building Regulations Certificate, I really don't know what
kind of **** you turn out!

Charming!

All our work meets all Regulations,

Me think he doth protest too much. I can't remember who said it, but
there's a quote that goes something like, "when a politician tells me
how honest he is, I check my wallet".

"I appreciate that your mother has already spoken to you by now but
yesterday we changed direction due to the local authorities and Grant moving
the goal posts. The authorities want at least 10 days before meeting and
completing my application

I'm not sure what 'authorities' he's talking about, but if it's
Building Control, then bollox. A Building Regulations application
takes two days MAX from _him_ completing it to a surveyor calling out.

20.02.2010.
"The Planning Control Officer is an office that we go to if you
are going to fit a standard efficiency boiler

I presume he means Building Control. He's said he's 'registered with
OFTEC', so why does he want to involve Building Control? He can
self-certify his own work.

and it works on a points
system, as you tick the boxes on my form if you don't go over a thousand
points the installation can be installed. In early 2006 when I did a
standard installation I had an appointment with the office, showed them my
form, told them all about the premises, discussed it in full and had
permission, 20 mins max.

There was a 'get-out' at the time the requirements changed for
oil-fired boilers fitted before April 2007. The form required the
answer to one question, "is this an oil-fired boiler?" If yes,
approved. And that took him 20 minutes?

One wonders if he's so knowledgable if he hasn't fitted a
non-condensing boiler between then and now.

I returned with the same idea and its all changed.
Now I have to write an application form in for an appointment, then we have
to meet on site, then we discuss it on site then we pass it, all this takes
approx and I do say that loosely 10 days!

Bollox. See above.

The above is verbatim except for some personal details.
I hope it gives some idea of the dilemma I am in, and my thanks
in advance for any sensible replies or advice.

No disrespect, but we are getting one side of the conversation.
Nevertheless, I have had a bad experience with a CH installer who knew
what was best for my mother (a bottom of the range CH boiler with
inadequate controls for a top of the range price).
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have I strayed"?

Hugo Nebula abuse@localhost
wibbled on Wednesday 24 February 2010 22:04


No disrespect, but we are getting one side of the conversation.
Nevertheless, I have had a bad experience with a CH installer who knew
what was best for my mother (a bottom of the range CH boiler with
inadequate controls for a top of the range price).

Hope you had some "fun" with him and made his life miserable...

Reminds me of a mate's brother who had a builder in to do some work. Builder
bodged it, brother had a go, builder said it was fine.

Later on, when brother went to another room, the builder was boasting with
the tenants about how he took as many cash payments as possible to avoid
VAT. Tenants fell about laughing. Builder asked why? Tenants said "Well, our
Landlord, that guy you've just ****ed off. He's a VAT inspector for C&E..."

Builder went very quiet, fixed all the work properly then scuttled off...

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.