I'm in the market for a programmable room stat.

Looking at
http://www.draytoncontrols.co.uk/Dig...ermostats.aspx
and specifically Drayton Digistat +2 and +3.........Can anybody explain the
difference between the 2 products, please?

The website seems to do an awesome job of not explaining, and the datasheet
is no better.


D

+2 is a 24hour model

+3 is 7 day.

ie: +2 runs the same programme each day and +3 can have a different
programme for monday, tuesday etc.

Hope this helps.

Trev.

"Vortex5" wrote in message
...
I'm in the market for a programmable room stat.

Looking at
http://www.draytoncontrols.co.uk/Dig...ermostats.aspx
and specifically Drayton Digistat +2 and +3.........Can anybody explain
the difference between the 2 products, please?

The website seems to do an awesome job of not explaining, and the
datasheet is no better.


D

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
TW wrote:

+2 is a 24hour model

+3 is 7 day.

ie: +2 runs the same programme each day and +3 can have a different
programme for monday, tuesday etc.

Hope this helps.

Trev.


Almost. My reading of the installation leaflets is that +2 does indeed have
the same programme for every day of the week, but +3 looks like a 5+2 day
programme rather than 7 days. In other words, it has one programme for
Mon-Fri and a different one for weekends. You can't, for example, have
Tuesday different from Monday (unless you lie about the day of the week and
skew the 'weekend' setting!)
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
TW wrote:

+2 is a 24hour model

+3 is 7 day.

ie: +2 runs the same programme each day and +3 can have a different
programme for monday, tuesday etc.

Hope this helps.

Trev.


Almost. My reading of the installation leaflets is that +2 does indeed
have the same programme for every day of the week, but +3 looks like a 5+2
day programme rather than 7 days. In other words, it has one programme for
Mon-Fri and a different one for weekends. You can't, for example, have
Tuesday different from Monday (unless you lie about the day of the week
and skew the 'weekend' setting!)
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!


Thanks, chaps.

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
TW wrote:

+2 is a 24hour model

+3 is 7 day.

ie: +2 runs the same programme each day and +3 can have a different
programme for monday, tuesday etc.

Hope this helps.

Trev.


Almost. My reading of the installation leaflets is that +2 does indeed
have the same programme for every day of the week, but +3 looks like a 5+2
day programme rather than 7 days. In other words, it has one programme for
Mon-Fri and a different one for weekends. You can't, for example, have
Tuesday different from Monday (unless you lie about the day of the week
and skew the 'weekend' setting!)
--
Cheers,
Roger

I am sure that every day can be set up differently. It just comes
pre-programmed as a 5+2 programmer.

Adam

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
om...


I am sure that every day can be set up differently. It just comes
pre-programmed as a 5+2 programmer.

Adam

Yes that's correct, I've just fitted a couple of the wireless variant. They
work well enough but programming method is counter intuitive so don't lose
the instructions !

Neil

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
ARWadsworth wrote:

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...

Almost. My reading of the installation leaflets is that +2 does
indeed have the same programme for every day of the week, but +3
looks like a 5+2 day programme rather than 7 days. In other words,
it has one programme for Mon-Fri and a different one for weekends.
You can't, for example, have Tuesday different from Monday (unless
you lie about the day of the week and skew the 'weekend' setting!)


I am sure that every day can be set up differently. It just comes
pre-programmed as a 5+2 programmer.

Adam

Yes, on reading the installation maual more carefully, it looks like you're
right.

I had assumed from the 5+2 description that it worked like my Danfoss
programmer which *does* only have two programmes - one for weekdays and one
for weekends. However, that's a few years old, and things have obviously
moved on a bit in the meantime!
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
ARWadsworth wrote:

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...

Almost. My reading of the installation leaflets is that +2 does
indeed have the same programme for every day of the week, but +3
looks like a 5+2 day programme rather than 7 days. In other words,
it has one programme for Mon-Fri and a different one for weekends.
You can't, for example, have Tuesday different from Monday (unless
you lie about the day of the week and skew the 'weekend' setting!)


I am sure that every day can be set up differently. It just comes
pre-programmed as a 5+2 programmer.

Adam

Yes, on reading the installation maual more carefully, it looks like
you're right.

I had assumed from the 5+2 description that it worked like my Danfoss
programmer which *does* only have two programmes - one for weekdays and
one for weekends. However, that's a few years old, and things have
obviously moved on a bit in the meantime!
--
Cheers,
Roger


I wonder how many people really need to set up different times for each day?

Adam

On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 19:32:09 GMT, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:


"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
ARWadsworth wrote:

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...

Almost. My reading of the installation leaflets is that +2 does
indeed have the same programme for every day of the week, but +3
looks like a 5+2 day programme rather than 7 days. In other words,
it has one programme for Mon-Fri and a different one for weekends.
You can't, for example, have Tuesday different from Monday (unless
you lie about the day of the week and skew the 'weekend' setting!)


I am sure that every day can be set up differently. It just comes
pre-programmed as a 5+2 programmer.

Adam

Yes, on reading the installation maual more carefully, it looks like
you're right.

I had assumed from the 5+2 description that it worked like my Danfoss
programmer which *does* only have two programmes - one for weekdays and
one for weekends. However, that's a few years old, and things have
obviously moved on a bit in the meantime!
--
Cheers,
Roger


I wonder how many people really need to set up different times for each day?

Adam

True ...most folk will either be home each day or at work each day but
there will be some who maybe work part time and only work some days or
part of some days . The manufacturers won't know who they are the
abilty to set the programmer differently for each day is provided .
The Salus one has a " 7 Day" setting AND a "5/2 Day" setting .

On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:40:48 -0000, Neil Evans wrote:

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
om...


I am sure that every day can be set up differently. It just comes
pre-programmed as a 5+2 programmer.

Adam

Yes that's correct, I've just fitted a couple of the wireless variant. They
work well enough but programming method is counter intuitive so don't lose
the instructions !

Neil

Too true! I made a couple of copies (bit bigger and clearer) as the setting
up would take forever to guess - even the order of closing the battery
trays.
--
Peter.
2x4 - thick plank; 4x4 - two of 'em.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
ARWadsworth wrote:



I wonder how many people really need to set up different times for
each day?
Adam

When I was working, the heating had used to come on earlier on workdays and
then go off during the day whereas at weekends, it came on later but stayed
on.

But since I've been retired, it's set to do the same thing every day. [As
someone once said, the trouble with being retired is that you never get a
day off! g]
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

Yes, on reading the installation maual more carefully, it looks like
you're right.

I had assumed from the 5+2 description that it worked like my Danfoss
programmer which *does* only have two programmes - one for weekdays and
one for weekends. However, that's a few years old, and things have
obviously moved on a bit in the meantime!
--
Cheers,
Roger


I wonder how many people really need to set up different times for each
day?

Adam

I'm not specially wanting lots of different programs, but I would like to
the controller to look nice and one key feature I really want is an "extra
hour" function....which is where the Drayton appears to be weak.

I'm leaning towards the DANFOSS TP7000 which is not so nice aesthetically
but has a number of simple user overrides including "extra 1, 2 or 3 hours"


D

"Vortex4" wrote in message
...



Yes, on reading the installation maual more carefully, it looks like
you're right.

I had assumed from the 5+2 description that it worked like my Danfoss
programmer which *does* only have two programmes - one for weekdays and
one for weekends. However, that's a few years old, and things have
obviously moved on a bit in the meantime!
--
Cheers,
Roger


I wonder how many people really need to set up different times for each
day?

Adam

I'm not specially wanting lots of different programs, but I would like to
the controller to look nice and one key feature I really want is an "extra
hour" function....which is where the Drayton appears to be weak.

I'm leaning towards the DANFOSS TP7000 which is not so nice aesthetically
but has a number of simple user overrides including "extra 1, 2 or 3
hours"


D


Link BTW:
http://danfoss-randall.co.uk/xxTypex...98_SIT313.html

In article , Vortex4
writes

I'm not specially wanting lots of different programs, but I would like to
the controller to look nice and one key feature I really want is an "extra
hour" function....which is where the Drayton appears to be weak.

I'm leaning towards the DANFOSS TP7000 which is not so nice aesthetically
but has a number of simple user overrides including "extra 1, 2 or 3 hours"

Honeywell really are the kings in this game in terms of sophistication
and ease of use eg CM907 (wired) CM927 (wireless) but they are priced to
match and I still have a few niggles with them:

1. The relay on the 907 makes a ridiculously loud pinging sound when the
relay is energised, not a problem for me as I am using it with a remote
room sensor but it would be really intrusive in a living room or bedroom
(for multizone).

2. You can't turn off their proportional control system which (when in
proportional temp range) insists in breaking each hour into 3 or 6
segments, firing the boiler for a time which it thinks is right during
each of those periods. Proportional should be more accurate but I'd
prefer to have the option for on-off control to limit the cycles on my
control valves and repeated boiler starts.

3. I've had a couple of 927s lose the wireless tying to their relay
units following power failure requiring re-tying by an obscure and well
hidden service option. Very inconvenient as I had to travel a bit to get
to them.

Agreed the Danfoss doesn't look that pretty but its proportional mode
(they call it chrono-proportional mode) can be switched off. I see they
also do a remote sensor version TP7000A but that's a bit more pricey,
67quid was the cheapest I could find it with 80quid being the norm.

That 5+2 programming option is nice, copying days on the honeywells is
easy but and 5+2 option would be simpler.
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs

"Vortex4" wrote in message
...



Yes, on reading the installation maual more carefully, it looks like
you're right.

I had assumed from the 5+2 description that it worked like my Danfoss
programmer which *does* only have two programmes - one for weekdays and
one for weekends. However, that's a few years old, and things have
obviously moved on a bit in the meantime!
--
Cheers,
Roger


I wonder how many people really need to set up different times for each
day?

Adam

I'm not specially wanting lots of different programs, but I would like to
the controller to look nice and one key feature I really want is an "extra
hour" function....which is where the Drayton appears to be weak.

I'm leaning towards the DANFOSS TP7000 which is not so nice aesthetically
but has a number of simple user overrides including "extra 1, 2 or 3
hours"


D


I have fitted a few of those. Remember that the the "extra 1, 2 or 3 hours"
is only an extension of the existing temperature not a "boost"/"override"
button. I am not sure that a "boost" button exists on any programmable room
stat.

Personally I try to avoid the programmable room stats and try to use hard
wired programmers instead.

Adam

On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 10:17:57 GMT, ARWadsworth wrote:

I have fitted a few of those. Remember that the the "extra 1, 2 or 3
hours" is only an extension of the existing temperature not a
"boost"/"override" button. I am not sure that a "boost" button exists on
any programmable room stat.

Our Danfoss TP75 has up/down buttons to overide the set temperature
in either direction, this overide stays in effect until the next set
point time. The display has a little up or down pointing triangle
when an overide is in operation. There is the +1 +2 +3 extenstion to
the current set temp as well. I think the TP7000 is the current
version.

Personally I try to avoid the programmable room stats and try to use
hard wired programmers instead.

Why? Programmable stats are far nicer as far as comfort is concerned.
Programmable stat != wireless.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
ARWadsworth wrote:

Remember that the the "extra 1, 2 or 3
hours" is only an extension of the existing temperature not a
"boost"/"override" button. I am not sure that a "boost" button exists
on any programmable room stat.


I'm not completely sure what you would like a boost or override button to
do?

All or most of the Honeywell programmable stats have a 'Party' button which
would probably enable you to achieve the desired effect. That lets you
define what set point you want for the next N hours, and uses that rather
than following the pre-defined programme.
* Just pressing the Party button maintains the current setpoint for another
hour regardless of any scheduled changes which would ordinarily occur in
that time. When the hour is up, it reverts to the scheduled programme.
* Pressing Party and then pressing the Time+ button once or more extends the
'party' time by as many hours as you like
* Pressing Party (and optionally Time+) and then Temperature + or - enables
you to specify the required temperature during the 'party' period, if this
is different from the current set point

This is very useful - both for making the house warmer for N hours, or for
making it cooler for a period if (for example) you are going out for several
hours and want to turn the heating down - but have the house warm again in
time for your return.

I don't know of any manual stats which can do *that*!
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

[Default] On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 19:32:09 GMT, a certain chimpanzee,
"ARWadsworth" , randomly hit the
keyboard and wrote:

I wonder how many people really need to set up different times for each day?

I have the heating go off later on a Friday night than the rest of the
week, and on Sunday it goes off the same time as Mon-Thu. I also have
different start up times for Saturday & Sunday.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have I strayed"?

[Default] On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 10:34:14 -0000, a certain chimpanzee,
"Vortex4" , randomly hit the keyboard and wrote:

I'm not specially wanting lots of different programs, but I would like to
the controller to look nice and one key feature I really want is an "extra
hour" function....which is where the Drayton appears to be weak.

Or an 'advance' (start the next programme early) function.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have I strayed"?

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 12:13:45 +0000, Hugo Nebula wrote:

I have the heating go off later on a Friday night than the rest of the
week, and on Sunday it goes off the same time as Mon-Thu. I also have
different start up times for Saturday & Sunday.

Spot the wage slave. B-)


--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 13:17:46 GMT, ARWadsworth wrote:

My number one reason for hating programmable stats is that lots of
people do not understand how a programmable stat works. The people that
post on this newsgroup do but in the real world it is hard work trying
to get a customer to understand them.

I know the Danfoss stat you have. It still lacks the boost button that a
decent hard wired programmer has.

I'm not sure what you expect a "boost" button to do. On the
programmers I've had that simply switches the zone on for an hour.
That would have the same effect as using the temp up/down buttons,
except that lasts until the next set point time.

Perhaps your customers have trouble understanding programmable stats
beacuse the explantion being given to them isn't clear or simple
enough? B-)

The biggest difficulty maybe getting over the fact that you no long
have dedicated periods of "on" or "off" with a single temperature.
The heating is basically always "on" but if the house is warm enough
it doesn't demand any heat. The temperature is controlled to what is
*actually required* for at a particular time.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 12:15:49 +0000, Hugo Nebula wrote:

... One key feature I really want is an "extra hour" function...

Or an 'advance' (start the next programme early) function.

Both are possibly dealt with via the temp up/down buttons that resets
to the programmed temp at the next set point time. Have set point
times set sensibly through the day with the same temperature
associated with them if you don't actually want a change in temp at
that time.

The "advance" function is simply adjusting the temp as required.

I'm not quite sure what is meant by "extra hour", an hour extension
to the end of the current period or turn the heating "on" for an
hour. The former is handled by the +1 +2 or +3 setting and the latter
by the temp up/down and sensibly set points through the day.

This is with our TP75 of course, I have a feeling the cheaper prog
stats out there these days may well not be quite so feature rich. But
then you gets whats you pays for...

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 13:17:46 GMT, ARWadsworth wrote:

My number one reason for hating programmable stats is that lots of
people do not understand how a programmable stat works. The people that
post on this newsgroup do but in the real world it is hard work trying
to get a customer to understand them.

I know the Danfoss stat you have. It still lacks the boost button that a
decent hard wired programmer has.

I'm not sure what you expect a "boost" button to do. On the
programmers I've had that simply switches the zone on for an hour.
That would have the same effect as using the temp up/down buttons,
except that lasts until the next set point time.

Perhaps your customers have trouble understanding programmable stats
beacuse the explantion being given to them isn't clear or simple
enough? B-)

The biggest difficulty maybe getting over the fact that you no long
have dedicated periods of "on" or "off" with a single temperature.
The heating is basically always "on" but if the house is warm enough
it doesn't demand any heat. The temperature is controlled to what is
*actually required* for at a particular time.

--
Cheers
Dave.


Indeed, the hardest part is trying to get the customer to understand that
there is not an off period.

I actually rewrote the instructions for the Siemens programmable stats that
I install as the manual that comes with it is awful. I get very few
customers who cannot understand my manual.

Adam

[Default] On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 13:33:46 +0000 (GMT), a certain
chimpanzee, "Dave Liquorice" ,
randomly hit the keyboard and wrote:

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 12:13:45 +0000, Hugo Nebula wrote:

I have the heating go off later on a Friday night than the rest of the
week, and on Sunday it goes off the same time as Mon-Thu. I also have
different start up times for Saturday & Sunday.

Spot the wage slave. B-)

Workers of the world unite!
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have I strayed"?

The message
from "ARWadsworth" contains these words:

Indeed, the hardest part is trying to get the customer to understand that
there is not an off period.

I actually rewrote the instructions for the Siemens programmable stats that
I install as the manual that comes with it is awful. I get very few
customers who cannot understand my manual.

The trouble is that almost nothing comes with instructions which are
comprehensible to the target audience.

A very large proportion of instructions are, of course, written in
Chinglish, but even if we ignore those ones, most of the remainder are
little better in the end of the day.

The percentage of instruction manuals written from the point of view of
the typical end user is tiny. Comprehensive concrete examples of how
to achieve common desired outcomes are few and far between.

Of course, to move a little bit OT, some manufacturers do it to ensure
that the only people who are likely to be able to program their
equipment are those who have been on expensive company-run courses --
Panasonic telephone exchanges are a case in point.