Hello

We're buying a detached house, built in the 1960-69 period. It's standard
construction as far as I can see (bricks, don't know about cavity wall,
tiled roof)and is on an established housing estate. There's been an
extension built at some stage, ading an upstairs bedroom and a downstairs
dining room. The extension seems well-done to me, and there are no obvious
signs of cracks in the brickwork etc. but note that I know almost nothing
about building houses or extensions.

I suspect that a standard "homebuyer's survey" would have sufficed but I
decided to be extra sure, hence going the extra 250 quid for the building
survey. Apart from asking the surveyor to pay particular attention to the
electrical wiring and the flat roof that makes up the attached garage and
utility room area, what other things might you suggest that I ask the
surveyor to highlight? I have only ever had a homebuyer's survey done
before, so I don't know how much extra detail I should expect for my outlay
or what I should be entitled to ask for specifically.

TIA for opinions based on your experiences

DDS

"Duncan Di Saudelli" wrote in message
...
Hello

We're buying a detached house, built in the 1960-69 period. It's standard
construction as far as I can see (bricks, don't know about cavity wall,
tiled roof)and is on an established housing estate. There's been an
extension built at some stage, ading an upstairs bedroom and a downstairs
dining room. The extension seems well-done to me, and there are no obvious
signs of cracks in the brickwork etc. but note that I know almost nothing
about building houses or extensions.

I suspect that a standard "homebuyer's survey" would have sufficed but I
decided to be extra sure, hence going the extra 250 quid for the building
survey. Apart from asking the surveyor to pay particular attention to the
electrical wiring and the flat roof that makes up the attached garage and
utility room area, what other things might you suggest that I ask the
surveyor to highlight? I have only ever had a homebuyer's survey done
before, so I don't know how much extra detail I should expect for my
outlay or what I should be entitled to ask for specifically.


A homebuyer survey is basically a quick look for obvious problems and a
valuation. It is done for the benefit of the lender but you pay for it. If
you really want to have the job done properly with some comeback you need a
full structural survey. Flat roofs are almost always bad news.

Peter Crosland

On Dec 13, 11:03 am, "Duncan Di Saudelli" wrote:
Hello

We're buying a detached house, built in the 1960-69 period. It's standard
construction as far as I can see (bricks, don't know about cavity wall,
tiled roof)and is on an established housing estate. There's been an
extension built at some stage, ading an upstairs bedroom and a downstairs
dining room. The extension seems well-done to me, and there are no obvious
signs of cracks in the brickwork etc. but note that I know almost nothing
about building houses or extensions.

I suspect that a standard "homebuyer's survey" would have sufficed but I
decided to be extra sure, hence going the extra 250 quid for the building
survey. Apart from asking the surveyor to pay particular attention to the
electrical wiring and the flat roof that makes up the attached garage and
utility room area, what other things might you suggest that I ask the
surveyor to highlight? I have only ever had a homebuyer's survey done
before, so I don't know how much extra detail I should expect for my outlay
or what I should be entitled to ask for specifically.

TIA for opinions based on your experiences

DDS

IMHE not worth bothering with the extra - they don't move anything to
get a proper look and will almost always "recommend" you get a sparks
in to check the wiring, a roofer to check the roof etc if there's any
wiff of a problem.

What they do say is usually obvious even to the average person, they
ask more questions than they answer, use lots of weaselly words that
leave you unable to sue them when they say things that turn out to be
wrong.

Seriously I'd just pay the smallest survey fee you can i.e. to get the
mortgage - anything extra is just lining some "professional"'s pocket.

Ask lots of questions on here if you are worried about anything you've
seen in the house - you'll learn what you need to do.

JimK

I suspect that a standard "homebuyer's survey" would have sufficed but I
decided to be extra sure, hence going the extra 250 quid for the building
survey.

A homebuyer survey is basically a quick look for obvious problems and a
valuation. It is done for the benefit of the lender but you pay for it. If
you really want to have the job done properly with some comeback you need
a full structural survey. Flat roofs are almost always bad news.

Yes; like I say, that's what I am doing. I'm not requesting a mere
homebuyer's survey, I'm paying for a building survey (AKA structural
survey).

http://www.home.co.uk/guides/buying/vands.htm and
http://www.ourproperty.co.uk/guides/...explained.html refer.

What I want to know from people who have done the building survey is how
detailed they are compared with a homebuyer's survey and is it normal
practice for the buyer to request particular attention to be paid to aspects
of particular interest e.g. wiring, flat roofs etc.

"Duncan Di Saudelli" wrote in message
...

I suspect that a standard "homebuyer's survey" would have sufficed but I
decided to be extra sure, hence going the extra 250 quid for the
building survey.

A homebuyer survey is basically a quick look for obvious problems and a
valuation. It is done for the benefit of the lender but you pay for it.
If you really want to have the job done properly with some comeback you
need a full structural survey. Flat roofs are almost always bad news.

Yes; like I say, that's what I am doing. I'm not requesting a mere
homebuyer's survey, I'm paying for a building survey (AKA structural
survey).

http://www.home.co.uk/guides/buying/vands.htm and
http://www.ourproperty.co.uk/guides/...explained.html refer.

What I want to know from people who have done the building survey is how
detailed they are compared with a homebuyer's survey and is it normal
practice for the buyer to request particular attention to be paid to
aspects of particular interest e.g. wiring, flat roofs etc.

Well there will not be a proper inspection of the electrics included in the
report.

You could pay for a an electrician to do a PIR but even that is not perfect.

Adam

"Duncan Di Saudelli" wrote in message
...
Hello

We're buying a detached house, built in the 1960-69 period. It's standard
construction as far as I can see (bricks, don't know about cavity wall,
tiled roof)and is on an established housing estate. There's been an
extension built at some stage, ading an upstairs bedroom and a downstairs
dining room. The extension seems well-done to me, and there are no obvious
signs of cracks in the brickwork etc. but note that I know almost nothing
about building houses or extensions.

I suspect that a standard "homebuyer's survey" would have sufficed but I
decided to be extra sure, hence going the extra 250 quid for the building
survey. Apart from asking the surveyor to pay particular attention to the
electrical wiring and the flat roof that makes up the attached garage and
utility room area, what other things might you suggest that I ask the
surveyor to highlight? I have only ever had a homebuyer's survey done
before, so I don't know how much extra detail I should expect for my
outlay or what I should be entitled to ask for specifically.

TIA for opinions based on your experiences

DDS





One thing I do know is surveyors don't like being told what to look out for.
I would imagine that a large proportion of the surveyors fees is for
insurance or indemity fees etc.
A surveyor can only see what you can see. However he will be better at
interpreting cracks and other apparent defects.
I think a lot of people use the surveyor as a negotiating tool as he's bound
to find something which you can use to get at least his fee off the asking
price.

I've bought several properties but have never used a surveyor. I don't need
to pay £500 to be told it's a pile of junk, or that the gutter leaks, when I
can see that for myself.

mark

mark wrote:
"Duncan Di Saudelli" wrote in message
...
Hello

We're buying a detached house, built in the 1960-69 period. It's standard
construction as far as I can see (bricks, don't know about cavity wall,
tiled roof)and is on an established housing estate. There's been an
extension built at some stage, ading an upstairs bedroom and a downstairs
dining room. The extension seems well-done to me, and there are no obvious
signs of cracks in the brickwork etc. but note that I know almost nothing
about building houses or extensions.

I suspect that a standard "homebuyer's survey" would have sufficed but I
decided to be extra sure, hence going the extra 250 quid for the building
survey. Apart from asking the surveyor to pay particular attention to the
electrical wiring and the flat roof that makes up the attached garage and
utility room area, what other things might you suggest that I ask the
surveyor to highlight? I have only ever had a homebuyer's survey done
before, so I don't know how much extra detail I should expect for my
outlay or what I should be entitled to ask for specifically.

TIA for opinions based on your experiences

DDS





One thing I do know is surveyors don't like being told what to look out for.
I would imagine that a large proportion of the surveyors fees is for
insurance or indemity fees etc.
A surveyor can only see what you can see. However he will be better at
interpreting cracks and other apparent defects.
I think a lot of people use the surveyor as a negotiating tool as he's bound
to find something which you can use to get at least his fee off the asking
price.

I've bought several properties but have never used a surveyor. I don't need
to pay £500 to be told it's a pile of junk, or that the gutter leaks, when I
can see that for myself.

mark




The fact that they wear suits and don't carry ladders tells you a lot

On Dec 13, 11:03*am, "Duncan Di Saudelli" wrote:
Hello

We're buying a detached house, built in the 1960-69 period. It's standard
construction as far as I can see (bricks, don't know about cavity wall,
tiled roof)and is on an established housing estate. *There's been an
extension built at some stage, ading an upstairs bedroom and a downstairs
dining room. The extension seems well-done to me, and there are no obvious
signs of cracks in the brickwork etc. but note that I know almost nothing
about building houses or extensions.

I suspect that a standard "homebuyer's survey" would have sufficed but I
decided to be extra sure, hence going the extra 250 quid for the building
survey. Apart from asking the surveyor to pay particular attention to the
electrical wiring and the flat roof that makes up the attached garage and
utility room area, what other things might you suggest that I ask the
surveyor to highlight? I have only ever had a homebuyer's survey done
before, so I don't know how much extra detail I should expect for my outlay
or what I should be entitled to ask for specifically.

TIA for opinions based on your experiences

DDS

The more you pay, the more recommendations you get to get people in to
look at various different bits. More intereast in arse covering than
being useful. If you're getting a mortgage you have to have one
though.


NT

I assume you can't check things yourself?

Wiring...
- DNO cable - 1 cable or 2 cables (loop-in) to cutout?
- CU age - split load with RCD or older?
- Open CU - power off, PVC with CPC on all circuits or some TRS?
- Open hall light-sw - power off, PVC with CPC present?
- Open bedroom light-sw - power off, PVC with CPC present?
- Open socket - power off, PVC with CPC present?

1960 detached are unlikely to have a loop-in supply, but if they do
the usual arrangement is 60A+80A for the two houses and often only one
can have en electric shower. Replacing a loop-in (shared) supply can
be expensive because the deeds may require you to provide a new supply
to the other house (so you are paying for two 100A supplies).
Neighbours have been known to deliberately overload their cable to get
the downstream house to pay for theirs to be upgraded.

Just mentioned because it is increasingly becoming an issue, I think
the practice stopped in 1958 but it may have lasted a lot longer
because I know of a 1970s detached house with loop-in supply off the
neighbour by a small private builder.

Plumbing...
- Central heating pipes run direct in concrete?
- If so that can cause problems re corrosion

Gas...
- Boiler pipe suitably sized for length if run thro the house
- Boiler age, condition etc

Downstairs floors...
- Wooden floor, any odd smells, soft skirting?
- Any underfloor vents obscurred by soil, earth etc?

Insurance...
- Have they made any claim for subsidence, underpinning?

Drains...
- Extension did not concrete over a manhole cover?
- Manhole cover still exists in the driveway etc?
- Built over public sewer or railway drain?
- Faeces smell around the soil pipe where it enters the ground?

Guttering...
- Felt rotten showing daylight between guttering & boards?
- Leaking guttering, wet/moss streaks down wall?

Windows...
- If DG any steamed up, distorted frames re missing steels?

Chimney...
- Vacuous pointing & cracked pots, missing rain covers?

Solid walls...
- Such as over porch, any cracked render or damp inside?

Basically indemnity cover can be a good thing :-)
The bulk of a house purchase is the land, however repairs can soon add
up!

Stuart Noble wrote:

The fact that they wear suits and don't carry ladders tells you a lot

I've not seen one in action, so I don't know what they wear, but they do
carry ladders. There seems to be a standard "surveyor's ladder" that is
just long enough to imply thoroughness but not long enough to access
anything important.

Pete

"js.b1" wrote in message
...
I assume you can't check things yourself?

Wiring...
- DNO cable - 1 cable or 2 cables (loop-in) to cutout?
- CU age - split load with RCD or older?
- Open CU - power off, PVC with CPC on all circuits or some TRS?
- Open hall light-sw - power off, PVC with CPC present?
- Open bedroom light-sw - power off, PVC with CPC present?
- Open socket - power off, PVC with CPC present?

1960 detached are unlikely to have a loop-in supply, but if they do
the usual arrangement is 60A+80A for the two houses and often only one
can have en electric shower. Replacing a loop-in (shared) supply can
be expensive because the deeds may require you to provide a new supply
to the other house (so you are paying for two 100A supplies).
Neighbours have been known to deliberately overload their cable to get
the downstream house to pay for theirs to be upgraded.

Just mentioned because it is increasingly becoming an issue, I think
the practice stopped in 1958 but it may have lasted a lot longer
because I know of a 1970s detached house with loop-in supply off the
neighbour by a small private builder.

What do you mean when you say "a loop-in supply?"

Do you mean an incoming supply that feeds one house and then feeds back out
to the next house?

Adam

On Dec 13, 3:23*pm, "js.b1" wrote:

I assume you can't check things yourself?

Wiring...

40 year old electrics has a fairly high chance of having been messed
with significantly over the years, and may need some bits sorting out,
but should be mostly sound, as long as its all pvc not rubber. If
rubber, probably need to replace the lot sooner rather than later.

Budget for a bundle of double sockets to replace any singles, and
you'll likely want to add more. May need to replace the odd worn out
switch or socket too.

Don't be put off by prehistoric fuseboxes, those are common on
otherwise decent installations.

Equipotential bonding in the bathroom is a reassuring indicator, but
is fairly unlikely to be present.


Plumbing...

wet patches anywhere?


Gas...

old flueless heaters? not good, but thankfully not common either. Also
beware of clueless installs & lack of basic ventilation.


Downstairs floors...
- Wooden floor, any odd smells, soft skirting?
or areas of boards replaced where they rotted due to damp trouble.
Such damp may be unresolved


Insurance...
- Have they made any claim for subsidence, underpinning?

structural cracks or filled cracks - dont worry about purely
decorative cracks though.


Guttering...
- Felt rotten showing daylight between guttering & boards?

in fairness feltless roofs are normally fine, I wouldnt worry unduly
about felt. Check for missing or broken tiles though, and cracked
joins where rain can run in - neither is hard to fix though

Flat roofs will be trouble now or later, and may well be rotting.


Windows...
- If DG any steamed up, distorted frames re missing steels?

or cracking wall above dg windows can indicate loss of necessary
support

be very ware of doors not closing due to frame movement, can indicate
a major structural problem. Ditto cracks radiating from window corners
and leaning walls


Solid walls...
- Such as over porch, any cracked render or damp inside?

not that easy to tell solid from cavity by the brickwork pattern,
often one imitates the other. A non-cavity wall will cost you
significantly in heating though, as insulation is uneconomic for solid
walls.


The bulk of a house purchase is the land, however repairs can soon add
up!

very much so if the owner doesnt really know what they do and dont
need.


NT

"NT" wrote in message
...
On Dec 13, 3:23 pm, "js.b1" wrote:

I assume you can't check things yourself?

Wiring...

40 year old electrics has a fairly high chance of having been messed
with significantly over the years, and may need some bits sorting out,
but should be mostly sound, as long as its all pvc not rubber. If
rubber, probably need to replace the lot sooner rather than later.

Budget for a bundle of double sockets to replace any singles, and
you'll likely want to add more. May need to replace the odd worn out
switch or socket too.

Don't be put off by prehistoric fuseboxes, those are common on
otherwise decent installations.

Equipotential bonding in the bathroom is a reassuring indicator, but
is fairly unlikely to be present.


There is no equipontential bonding in the bathrooms on houses that I rewire.
17th edition etc

Adam

Duncan Di Saudelli wrote:
Hello

We're buying a detached house, built in the 1960-69 period. It's standard
construction as far as I can see (bricks, don't know about cavity wall,
tiled roof)and is on an established housing estate. There's been an
extension built at some stage, ading an upstairs bedroom and a downstairs
dining room. The extension seems well-done to me, and there are no obvious
signs of cracks in the brickwork etc. but note that I know almost nothing
about building houses or extensions.

I suspect that a standard "homebuyer's survey" would have sufficed but I
decided to be extra sure, hence going the extra 250 quid for the building
survey. Apart from asking the surveyor to pay particular attention to the
electrical wiring and the flat roof that makes up the attached garage and
utility room area, what other things might you suggest that I ask the
surveyor to highlight? I have only ever had a homebuyer's survey done
before, so I don't know how much extra detail I should expect for my outlay
or what I should be entitled to ask for specifically.

TIA for opinions based on your experiences

DDS




after all this rain
it should be pretty obvious if there are any leaks
in the roof or drainage.

[g]

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:17:55 -0000, mark wrote:

"Duncan Di Saudelli" wrote in message
...
Hello

We're buying a detached house, built in the 1960-69 period. It's standard
construction as far as I can see (bricks, don't know about cavity wall,
tiled roof)and is on an established housing estate. There's been an
extension built at some stage, ading an upstairs bedroom and a downstairs
dining room. The extension seems well-done to me, and there are no obvious
signs of cracks in the brickwork etc. but note that I know almost nothing
about building houses or extensions.

I suspect that a standard "homebuyer's survey" would have sufficed but I
decided to be extra sure, hence going the extra 250 quid for the building
survey. Apart from asking the surveyor to pay particular attention to the
electrical wiring and the flat roof that makes up the attached garage and
utility room area, what other things might you suggest that I ask the
surveyor to highlight? I have only ever had a homebuyer's survey done
before, so I don't know how much extra detail I should expect for my
outlay or what I should be entitled to ask for specifically.

TIA for opinions based on your experiences

DDS





One thing I do know is surveyors don't like being told what to look out for.
I would imagine that a large proportion of the surveyors fees is for
insurance or indemity fees etc.
A surveyor can only see what you can see. However he will be better at
interpreting cracks and other apparent defects.
I think a lot of people use the surveyor as a negotiating tool as he's bound
to find something which you can use to get at least his fee off the asking
price.

I've bought several properties but have never used a surveyor. I don't need
to pay £500 to be told it's a pile of junk, or that the gutter leaks, when I
can see that for myself.

I got "proper" surveys done for the first house I bought as I hadn't a clue
about building and also for the second - mainly because it seemed the "done"
thing. However both of them were entirely useless, as said they didn't check
anything obscure (electrics, plumbing etc.). Neither did they move any furniture
or lift any carpets to check for damp / rot / woodworm or anything else.
They do seem to be a complete waste of time and money and only made superficial
recommendations couched in terms like "could" "might" "may" etc. They didn't
even test that the central heating worked!

The report was mainly just a run-through of the things anyone could see from
a cursory glance: room sizes, state of D.G. comments about the decorative state
of the places and whether there was gas and/or electric points in the rooms.

So my view now is that unless the house has recently been redecorated before
being put on the market (a sign of trying to hide something?) then I can see
just as many cracks, damp spots or loose roof tiles as a surveyor.
The only possible advantage a survey could have is to try to get something
knocked off the purchase price, but a little hard-nosed negotiation would get
that anyway.

pete wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:17:55 -0000, mark wrote:
"Duncan Di Saudelli" wrote in message
...
Hello

We're buying a detached house, built in the 1960-69 period. It's standard
construction as far as I can see (bricks, don't know about cavity wall,
tiled roof)and is on an established housing estate. There's been an
extension built at some stage, ading an upstairs bedroom and a downstairs
dining room. The extension seems well-done to me, and there are no obvious
signs of cracks in the brickwork etc. but note that I know almost nothing
about building houses or extensions.

I suspect that a standard "homebuyer's survey" would have sufficed but I
decided to be extra sure, hence going the extra 250 quid for the building
survey. Apart from asking the surveyor to pay particular attention to the
electrical wiring and the flat roof that makes up the attached garage and
utility room area, what other things might you suggest that I ask the
surveyor to highlight? I have only ever had a homebuyer's survey done
before, so I don't know how much extra detail I should expect for my
outlay or what I should be entitled to ask for specifically.

TIA for opinions based on your experiences

DDS




One thing I do know is surveyors don't like being told what to look out for.
I would imagine that a large proportion of the surveyors fees is for
insurance or indemity fees etc.
A surveyor can only see what you can see. However he will be better at
interpreting cracks and other apparent defects.
I think a lot of people use the surveyor as a negotiating tool as he's bound
to find something which you can use to get at least his fee off the asking
price.

I've bought several properties but have never used a surveyor. I don't need
to pay £500 to be told it's a pile of junk, or that the gutter leaks, when I
can see that for myself.

I got "proper" surveys done for the first house I bought as I hadn't a clue
about building and also for the second - mainly because it seemed the "done"
thing. However both of them were entirely useless, as said they didn't check
anything obscure (electrics, plumbing etc.). Neither did they move any furniture
or lift any carpets to check for damp / rot / woodworm or anything else.
They do seem to be a complete waste of time and money and only made superficial
recommendations couched in terms like "could" "might" "may" etc. They didn't
even test that the central heating worked!

The report was mainly just a run-through of the things anyone could see from
a cursory glance: room sizes, state of D.G. comments about the decorative state
of the places and whether there was gas and/or electric points in the rooms.

So my view now is that unless the house has recently been redecorated before
being put on the market (a sign of trying to hide something?) then I can see
just as many cracks, damp spots or loose roof tiles as a surveyor.
The only possible advantage a survey could have is to try to get something
knocked off the purchase price, but a little hard-nosed negotiation would get
that anyway.
Or have someone to sue when it falls down.

On Dec 13, 5:46*pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
What do you mean when you say "a loop-in supply?"
Do you mean an incoming supply that feeds one house and then feeds back out
to the next house?

Yes. They were common in the 1950s, but I've seen them as late as
1970s on "builder built one" houses where they ran off a neighbour's
cutout. Basically the combined "two" are limited to 60+80A re 135A
cable limit.

As you know DNO can't joint supply under driveway and can't do loop-in
supplies anymore under ESQW so it can get "buck passing" by the DNO if
things go wrong because they know the bill is quite substantial if
things go wrong.

In article ,
Duncan Di Saudelli wrote:
What I want to know from people who have done the building survey is how
detailed they are compared with a homebuyer's survey and is it normal
practice for the buyer to request particular attention to be paid to
aspects of particular interest e.g. wiring, flat roofs etc.

A survey can't possibly do an in depth study of everything. You'd have to
take the house apart to do that.
You'd need a good electrician to do a check and test on the electrics -
and a good roofer to look at the roof.

--
*The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article
,
Owain wrote:
If the flat roof doesn't leak now, it will leak in the future. It will
also probably be poorly insulated.

That statement applies to most roofs.

--
*Never miss a good chance to shut up *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Duncan Di Saudelli wrote:
What I want to know from people who have done the building survey is how
detailed they are compared with a homebuyer's survey and is it normal
practice for the buyer to request particular attention to be paid to
aspects of particular interest e.g. wiring, flat roofs etc.

A survey can't possibly do an in depth study of everything. You'd have to
take the house apart to do that.
You'd need a good electrician to do a check and test on the electrics -
and a good roofer to look at the roof.

I didnt waste money on a survey,
After a year of living in the house in all weathers you should have a
list of what needs doing.

Much more important is the view out the windows - that you cant fix!

And if you use heating and windows differently then the previous
occupants then you may have different condensation patterns.

[g]

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 21:51:30 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
pete wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:17:55 -0000, mark wrote:
"Duncan Di Saudelli" wrote in message
...
Hello

We're buying a detached house, built in the 1960-69 period. It's standard
construction as far as I can see (bricks, don't know about cavity wall,
tiled roof)and is on an established housing estate. There's been an
extension built at some stage, ading an upstairs bedroom and a downstairs
dining room. The extension seems well-done to me, and there are no obvious
signs of cracks in the brickwork etc. but note that I know almost nothing
about building houses or extensions.

I suspect that a standard "homebuyer's survey" would have sufficed but I
decided to be extra sure, hence going the extra 250 quid for the building
survey. Apart from asking the surveyor to pay particular attention to the
electrical wiring and the flat roof that makes up the attached garage and
utility room area, what other things might you suggest that I ask the
surveyor to highlight? I have only ever had a homebuyer's survey done
before, so I don't know how much extra detail I should expect for my
outlay or what I should be entitled to ask for specifically.

TIA for opinions based on your experiences

DDS




One thing I do know is surveyors don't like being told what to look out for.
I would imagine that a large proportion of the surveyors fees is for
insurance or indemity fees etc.
A surveyor can only see what you can see. However he will be better at
interpreting cracks and other apparent defects.
I think a lot of people use the surveyor as a negotiating tool as he's bound
to find something which you can use to get at least his fee off the asking
price.

I've bought several properties but have never used a surveyor. I don't need
to pay £500 to be told it's a pile of junk, or that the gutter leaks, when I
can see that for myself.

I got "proper" surveys done for the first house I bought as I hadn't a clue
about building and also for the second - mainly because it seemed the "done"
thing. However both of them were entirely useless, as said they didn't check
anything obscure (electrics, plumbing etc.). Neither did they move any furniture
or lift any carpets to check for damp / rot / woodworm or anything else.
They do seem to be a complete waste of time and money and only made superficial
recommendations couched in terms like "could" "might" "may" etc. They didn't
even test that the central heating worked!

The report was mainly just a run-through of the things anyone could see from
a cursory glance: room sizes, state of D.G. comments about the decorative state
of the places and whether there was gas and/or electric points in the rooms.

So my view now is that unless the house has recently been redecorated before
being put on the market (a sign of trying to hide something?) then I can see
just as many cracks, damp spots or loose roof tiles as a surveyor.
The only possible advantage a survey could have is to try to get something
knocked off the purchase price, but a little hard-nosed negotiation would get
that anyway.

Or have someone to sue when it falls down.

Well, yes. Indemnity is one of the benefits of having an expert make an assessment.
However, there were so many areas that were either excluded or made wishy-washy
observations: "may" "could" "might" etc. that I doubt any action could be
brought for the superficial and inconsequential observations that filled the bulk
of the reports.

pete wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 21:51:30 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
pete wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:17:55 -0000, mark wrote:
"Duncan Di Saudelli" wrote in message
...
Hello

We're buying a detached house, built in the 1960-69 period. It's standard
construction as far as I can see (bricks, don't know about cavity wall,
tiled roof)and is on an established housing estate. There's been an
extension built at some stage, ading an upstairs bedroom and a downstairs
dining room. The extension seems well-done to me, and there are no obvious
signs of cracks in the brickwork etc. but note that I know almost nothing
about building houses or extensions.

I suspect that a standard "homebuyer's survey" would have sufficed but I
decided to be extra sure, hence going the extra 250 quid for the building
survey. Apart from asking the surveyor to pay particular attention to the
electrical wiring and the flat roof that makes up the attached garage and
utility room area, what other things might you suggest that I ask the
surveyor to highlight? I have only ever had a homebuyer's survey done
before, so I don't know how much extra detail I should expect for my
outlay or what I should be entitled to ask for specifically.

TIA for opinions based on your experiences

DDS




One thing I do know is surveyors don't like being told what to look out for.
I would imagine that a large proportion of the surveyors fees is for
insurance or indemity fees etc.
A surveyor can only see what you can see. However he will be better at
interpreting cracks and other apparent defects.
I think a lot of people use the surveyor as a negotiating tool as he's bound
to find something which you can use to get at least his fee off the asking
price.

I've bought several properties but have never used a surveyor. I don't need
to pay £500 to be told it's a pile of junk, or that the gutter leaks, when I
can see that for myself.
I got "proper" surveys done for the first house I bought as I hadn't a clue
about building and also for the second - mainly because it seemed the "done"
thing. However both of them were entirely useless, as said they didn't check
anything obscure (electrics, plumbing etc.). Neither did they move any furniture
or lift any carpets to check for damp / rot / woodworm or anything else.
They do seem to be a complete waste of time and money and only made superficial
recommendations couched in terms like "could" "might" "may" etc. They didn't
even test that the central heating worked!

The report was mainly just a run-through of the things anyone could see from
a cursory glance: room sizes, state of D.G. comments about the decorative state
of the places and whether there was gas and/or electric points in the rooms.

So my view now is that unless the house has recently been redecorated before
being put on the market (a sign of trying to hide something?) then I can see
just as many cracks, damp spots or loose roof tiles as a surveyor.
The only possible advantage a survey could have is to try to get something
knocked off the purchase price, but a little hard-nosed negotiation would get
that anyway.

Or have someone to sue when it falls down.

Well, yes. Indemnity is one of the benefits of having an expert make an assessment.
However, there were so many areas that were either excluded or made wishy-washy
observations: "may" "could" "might" etc. that I doubt any action could be
brought for the superficial and inconsequential observations that filled the bulk
of the reports.

Indeed.

At the end of the day the price is a negotiation. Some people like to
have a surveyors report to give their bargaining position credibility.
When I bought this place it was in dire condition, but I couldn't be
bothered to nitpick. I juts said 'all the mortgage company will lend me
is X, take it or leave it'

They took it. It was a complete lie.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
Peter Crosland wrote:
"Duncan Di Saudelli" wrote in message
...
Hello

We're buying a detached house, built in the 1960-69 period. It's
standard construction as far as I can see (bricks, don't know about
cavity wall, tiled roof)and is on an established housing estate.
There's been an extension built at some stage, ading an upstairs bedroom
and a downstairs dining room. The extension seems well-done to me, and
there are no obvious signs of cracks in the brickwork etc. but note that
I know almost nothing about building houses or extensions.

I suspect that a standard "homebuyer's survey" would have sufficed but I
decided to be extra sure, hence going the extra 250 quid for the
building survey. Apart from asking the surveyor to pay particular
attention to the electrical wiring and the flat roof that makes up the
attached garage and utility room area, what other things might you
suggest that I ask the surveyor to highlight? I have only ever had a
homebuyer's survey done before, so I don't know how much extra detail I
should expect for my outlay or what I should be entitled to ask for
specifically.


A homebuyer survey is basically a quick look for obvious problems and a
valuation. It is done for the benefit of the lender but you pay for it.
If

That is usually described simply as a a valuation survey. Many surveyors
also offer a "Homebuyers report", which goes into more detail (i.e. a
couple of lines of text in response to each main subject category).

you really want to have the job done properly with some comeback you need
a full structural survey. Flat roofs are almost always bad news.

The full structural is usually the "third" option, and will not be fixed
price, but based on negotiation about what bits you want inspected.

(people can get carried away with these things - flat roofs are one
example, I know someone who spent more time and money faffing about
surveying a flat roof than it would have cost to simply replace it!)

--
Cheers,

John.

When my friend sold his house he told the new buyers that they could have
the crap plastic garden furniture if they wanted it as he did not have space
for it when he moved out.

The buyers then got their solicitor to write a letter to my friends
solicitor asking for this offer to be made in writing so that they did not
miss out on such a bargain. The letters cost more than the furniture.

Adam

On 14 Dec, 11:43, pete wrote:

Well, yes. Indemnity is one of the benefits of having an expert make an assessment.

I wish.

I've never had a surveyor's report that gave me any confidence they'd
actually visited the property, nor have any of them ever stated
anything with any certainty that would give you a chance of suing them
in the future. Confusing wooden & concrete floors was one, querying
gas boiler safety on a rural house with no mains gas, simply getting
the address confidently wrong throughout.

Or have someone to sue when it falls down.

Why not just be properly insured?

Andy Dingley wrote:

I've never had a surveyor's report that gave me any confidence they'd
actually visited the property
[...]
querying gas boiler safety on a rural house with no mains gas

Mine told me that the condensate drain on the boiler was inadequate,
when the boiler is not a condensing one.

Pete

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 11:43:07 GMT, pete wrote:

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 21:51:30 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
pete wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:17:55 -0000, mark wrote:
"Duncan Di Saudelli" wrote in message
...
Hello

We're buying a detached house, built in the 1960-69 period. It's standard
construction as far as I can see (bricks, don't know about cavity wall,
tiled roof)and is on an established housing estate. There's been an
extension built at some stage, ading an upstairs bedroom and a downstairs
dining room. The extension seems well-done to me, and there are no obvious
signs of cracks in the brickwork etc. but note that I know almost nothing
about building houses or extensions.

I suspect that a standard "homebuyer's survey" would have sufficed but I
decided to be extra sure, hence going the extra 250 quid for the building
survey. Apart from asking the surveyor to pay particular attention to the
electrical wiring and the flat roof that makes up the attached garage and
utility room area, what other things might you suggest that I ask the
surveyor to highlight? I have only ever had a homebuyer's survey done
before, so I don't know how much extra detail I should expect for my
outlay or what I should be entitled to ask for specifically.

TIA for opinions based on your experiences

DDS




One thing I do know is surveyors don't like being told what to look out for.
I would imagine that a large proportion of the surveyors fees is for
insurance or indemity fees etc.
A surveyor can only see what you can see. However he will be better at
interpreting cracks and other apparent defects.
I think a lot of people use the surveyor as a negotiating tool as he's bound
to find something which you can use to get at least his fee off the asking
price.

I've bought several properties but have never used a surveyor. I don't need
to pay £500 to be told it's a pile of junk, or that the gutter leaks, when I
can see that for myself.

I got "proper" surveys done for the first house I bought as I hadn't a clue
about building and also for the second - mainly because it seemed the "done"
thing. However both of them were entirely useless, as said they didn't check
anything obscure (electrics, plumbing etc.). Neither did they move any furniture
or lift any carpets to check for damp / rot / woodworm or anything else.
They do seem to be a complete waste of time and money and only made superficial
recommendations couched in terms like "could" "might" "may" etc. They didn't
even test that the central heating worked!

The report was mainly just a run-through of the things anyone could see from
a cursory glance: room sizes, state of D.G. comments about the decorative state
of the places and whether there was gas and/or electric points in the rooms.

So my view now is that unless the house has recently been redecorated before
being put on the market (a sign of trying to hide something?) then I can see
just as many cracks, damp spots or loose roof tiles as a surveyor.
The only possible advantage a survey could have is to try to get something
knocked off the purchase price, but a little hard-nosed negotiation would get
that anyway.

Or have someone to sue when it falls down.

Well, yes. Indemnity is one of the benefits of having an expert make an assessment.
However, there were so many areas that were either excluded or made wishy-washy
observations: "may" "could" "might" etc. that I doubt any action could be
brought for the superficial and inconsequential observations that filled the bulk
of the reports.

Agreed. There's a small chance the survey may spot something you
didn't notice but the report will be 99% full of "I was unable to
check X" and "I recommend you get the wiring/CH/etc. checked by an
expert". I doubt you would find any surveyer willing to make a useful
comment on a flat roof at all. Always budget to replace a flat roof
immediately you move in. If it lasts longer that's a bonus.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
[Reply-to address valid until it is spammed.]

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 05:48:07 -0800 (PST), Adam Aglionby
wrote:

On 13 Dec, 11:03, "Duncan Di Saudelli" wrote:
Hello

We're buying a detached house, built in the 1960-69 period. It's standard
construction as far as I can see (bricks, don't know about cavity wall,
tiled roof)and is on an established housing estate. *There's been an
extension built at some stage, ading an upstairs bedroom and a downstairs
dining room. The extension seems well-done to me, and there are no obvious
signs of cracks in the brickwork etc. but note that I know almost nothing
about building houses or extensions.

I suspect that a standard "homebuyer's survey" would have sufficed but I
decided to be extra sure, hence going the extra 250 quid for the building
survey. Apart from asking the surveyor to pay particular attention to the
electrical wiring and the flat roof that makes up the attached garage and
utility room area, what other things might you suggest that I ask the
surveyor to highlight? I have only ever had a homebuyer's survey done
before, so I don't know how much extra detail I should expect for my outlay
or what I should be entitled to ask for specifically.

TIA for opinions based on your experiences

DDS

Had sight of a U.S., California house purchase survey, cost the
potential buyer 350 USD done by a chartered building engineer.

Wow, if only U.K surveys were like that, detailed photos of every
single problem however slight with analysis of cause and possible
remedies.This was a survey not a quote by a contractor, Everything,
including uneven kitchen step, with photos , was in it, very
impressive.

Been a few exposes of surveyors on TV, one that remember was full
structural that came beautifully bound for 800 GBP + VAT, reporter
phoned surveyors:

Roof, you recommend consulting a roofing specialist.

Electrics,you recommend consulting an electrician for testing.

Plumbing,,you recommend consulting a plumber for testing.

Heating, you recommend consulting a heating engineer for testing.

Timber and rot, you recommend consulting a timber specialist.

Damp, you recommend consulting a rising damp specialist.

As the reporter asked , exactly what are you a specialist in?

If you require a survey for mortgage purposes employ a panel surveyor
whose valuation will be acceptable to your lenders, the surveyor is
then working for you and probasly has time at moment to spend a while
on the phone going through the survey for you, my experience is they
are happier to talk about some things than commit the whole opinion to
paper.

A building society valuation is not really a survey at all IMHO. Often
they just drive by and look at the outside of the front of the house
and never even enter the premises.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
[Reply-to address valid until it is spammed.]

"Mark" wrote in message
...


A building society valuation is not really a survey at all IMHO. Often
they just drive by and look at the outside of the front of the house
and never even enter the premises.
--

I've just had a mortgage valuation survey, as the vendor. He spent longer
than I thought he would. His damp meter was used extensively. He measured
up. He went into the attic. He paced out the length of the garden and asked
loads of questions etc. I would have preferred a 'drive by'.

mark

mark wrote:
"Mark" wrote in message
...

A building society valuation is not really a survey at all IMHO. Often
they just drive by and look at the outside of the front of the house
and never even enter the premises.
--

I've just had a mortgage valuation survey, as the vendor. He spent longer
than I thought he would. His damp meter was used extensively. He measured
up. He went into the attic. He paced out the length of the garden and asked
loads of questions etc. I would have preferred a 'drive by'.


A lot of mortgage valuers have lost their jobs. The ones that haven't
are very keen not to, take their time and actually produce accurate
reports.
mark

On Dec 16, 6:32*pm, "mark" wrote:
"Mark" wrote in message

...



A building society valuation is not really a survey at all IMHO. Often
they just drive by and look at the outside of the front of the house
and never even enter the premises.
--

I've just had a mortgage valuation survey, as the vendor. He spent longer
than I thought he would. His damp meter was used extensively. He measured
up. He went into the attic. He paced out the length of the garden and asked
loads of questions etc. *I would have preferred a 'drive by'.


Maybe it wasn't just a valuation. Sometimes the lender will allow you
to pay extra and have a homebuyers survey done at the same time as the
valuation survey.

R

On Dec 16, 6:32*pm, "mark" wrote:
"Mark" wrote in message

...



A building society valuation is not really a survey at all IMHO. Often
they just drive by and look at the outside of the front of the house
and never even enter the premises.
--

I've just had a mortgage valuation survey, as the vendor. He spent longer
than I thought he would. His damp meter was used extensively. He measured
up. He went into the attic. He paced out the length of the garden and asked
loads of questions etc. *I would have preferred a 'drive by'.


Anoth r thought: since the recent financial upheavals, perhaps
lenders are requiring a full 'red book' valuation. I had this done
for probate once and it was very thorough. It was supposed t oinclude
measurements of the plot and floor areas and had deductions for the
costs of fixing problems.

Robert

TIA for opinions based on your experiences


Thanks for everyone's opinions and experiences regarding the various aspects
of surveys; mine's due imminently and this thread has helped me to measure
my expectations.

DDS